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Old 02-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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Default Polyamorous love triangle

Hi, I don't really need any advice, but since I'm new here, and also new to polyamory, I thought this would fit best in this section.

I have always been polyamorous throughout my life, I guess, I just wasn't aware of it. I remember always having strong feelings for more than one person at a time, but thought it was a personal weakness that I'm not able to love just one person and be sexually faithful. So I struggled many times choosing between two people, hiding my true feelings from my partners, praising the rewards of giving up close emotional relationships and sex with others for one person, and still wasn't able to maintain a monogamous relationship longer than two years.

I was married last year when I met someone else whom I felt so much love for, that I finally didn't want to hide any more. My husband couldn't stand it and broke up with me, calling me ruthless and selfish for not respecting his wish to have a monogamous relationship with me. The other person had another close relationship with some other girl, claiming to love both of us equally much. I admit that I felt jealous in the beginning, but it felt good and right to finally overcome this feeling and allow him the freedom to share his love with whomever he felt like.

The other girl couldn't handle the situation though and made him choose between becoming her monogamous boyfriend or losing her. I'm sure, if you never felt deep love for two people at the same time, it's hard to understand what it is like. He chose to join in a monogamous relationship with her, labelling our relationship as "close friends", which means we will continue to spend our lives together, spend lots of time together, plan to live close to one another, talk a lot, be emotionally close, cuddle, kiss. We just won't have sex. (Where does "sex" start, by the way?! ) Once again I had to face jealousy from being put into second place, though he kept telling me that he still feels equally strong for me and for her. But I understand him, as I made similar decisions before in my life and felt it was good and right at that time to just go on struggling He told me that it was "just sex" that we had to give up. But if it was "just sex", why would we have to give it up? Obviously it is a little bit more than "just sex", at least for his girlfriend.

So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly" as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me. You can tell that I really see myself in him, so I understand him perfectly and just hope for him (not for me, I'm fine with if we really wouldn't have sex any longer, as for me it really is "just sex" now) that one day he will get the same insights like I had last year. And hopefully his girlfriend will be able to grow with him. I'm pretty sure that the final word hasn't been spoken yet. We'll see.

He thinks I will change my mind about polyamorous relationships again as soon as I find a new boyfriend. But I'm pretty sure I will rather stay single for the rest of my life than ending up in a monogamous relationship again that is built on lies and dishonesty. I'm not sure if I will ever find people who I can have polyamorous relationships with, I find it hard to imagine that this will happen in the near future. Seems now that with becoming aware of being polyamorous, the number of people I could build up a close, long-lasting relationship with has reduced drastically. There seem to be so little of you guys out there But of course, you never know

That's my story until today. Let's see how it continues

Greetings from Germany,
P.

Last edited by Purpurea; 02-09-2011 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:23 PM
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I think it's cool how you said you can see yourself in him. It sounds like you have a lot of empathy for him, and a genuine, true love as well!

For some reason I was just wondering about his public relationship with you, if that is a factor or not. She is his legit "girlfriend," so does that mean she gets to spend time with his family, or live with him, or share his resources, etc, while you are the girl on the side? That may be ok for you now but someday you might want a partner who you can stand beside, and who can be there for you as well.

I'm sorry for prying, I have no idea whatsoever why that came to my mind!

I don't know all your circumstances of course -- it may be that this is the perfect relationship for you for right now.

Maybe in time, he may find you to be the way cooler one, and his girlfriend's restrictions too limiting. If he is still cheating with you then I think that is possible. But I also think that he should have been strong enough to stand up to her and say he still wanted to be with you. He's setting himself up for guilt. Unless he gets a particular thrill in the sneakiness of breaking his promises to her. I feel bad for him -- wouldn't she be mad if she found out?? Not to mention hurt -- but either way, he would look like the bad guy, right?? And what about you?? You deserve better. Clearly you love this guy.

Sex is ok as long as it's without love, or love is ok as long as it's without sex.... what is this all about?! Believe me, these conversations are all over this forum, ha!

I'm not judging your man, or your situation, believe me, just writing off the top of my head! (For one thing, I've set myself up for plenty of guilt in my lifetime! Trying to avoid it as best I can, these days!) I don't like it when people make assumptions about my situation, so please don't be offended by my questions/musings, because truly, that's all they are.

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Old 02-10-2011, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
The other girl couldn't handle the situation though and made him choose between becoming her monogamous boyfriend or losing her. I'm sure, if you never felt deep love for two people at the same time, it's hard to understand what it is like. He chose to join in a monogamous relationship with her, labelling our relationship as "close friends", which means we will continue to spend our lives together, spend lots of time together, plan to live close to one another, talk a lot, be emotionally close, cuddle, kiss. We just won't have sex. (Where does "sex" start, by the way?! )
Sex starts where his girlfriend says it starts... I am guessing he hasn't checked this out with her. I think this is very important to check on as you likely have crossed a line somewhere already and are good to go in the cheating realm... if this is to work then I would suggest this gets cleared up as soon as possible so as to have a good foundation of integrity, honesty, respect and compassionate consideration for all involved... these to me are the basis of good relationships. Especially poly ones.

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Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly" as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me.
So you are cheating then! I think you have a lot of fessing up to do and a lot of apologizing. You have destroyed the trust of another and come off as uncaring about it. Cheating is not poly. It's cheating...

I suggest you look at some of the threads hear on the foundations of poly and cheating. You can find them by doing a tag search for "foundations" "lessons" and "cheating." You have a lot of work to do to make this right. The first thing to do is realize what you have done. Just because the two of you love each other does not make it okay to fuck each other and go behind someone elses back to do it...

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Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
I'm pretty sure I will rather stay single for the rest of my life than ending up in a monogamous relationship again that is built on lies and dishonesty.
you have already built a relationship on lies and dishonesty. The one you are in is based on that... you are still not in a poly relationship. You are having an affair. Call it what it is and then decide if you are either okay with it of not, but please don't call it poly. I doubt there will be many here that will be okay with your using the term for what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
I'm not sure if I will ever find people who I can have polyamorous relationships with, I find it hard to imagine that this will happen in the near future. Seems now that with becoming aware of being polyamorous, the number of people I could build up a close, long-lasting relationship with has reduced drastically. There seem to be so little of you guys out there But of course, you never know
There are a lot of poly people but not too many that would be interested in a cheater. Poly comes with a set of values that don't involve cheating. Poly is based on full knowledge and consent of all parties involved. You are not practising this, therefore in my eyes are not poly and would not be interested in you... if you want to attract poly love, then I suggest that you start learning what that is.

I feel for you. You have a "friend" that is stringing you a long. You are cheating on his girlfriend and he is using you for sex because he "can't control himself"... how long that will last is until he loses interest in the sex I think. The thrill of cheating or the thrill of it being under the table perhaps?... I would suspect that he is full of shit and you are enjoying his "I can't keep my hands off of you" bit... that is really quite sad and I wish for you that you find someone that is willing to cherish you in your entirety once you get your act together and act with some integrity.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:00 AM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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@redpepper: Interesting point, thank you for your comment.

The title I used for this thread was probably not a good choice, I guess. I chose it because I think that underneath it all there is a polyamorous relationship hiding, simply because he loves two people equally much at the same time. The way we live it, couldn't be further away from a poly relationship in my understanding and is in fact a complete disaster, I absolutely agree with you. Just the fact that his relationship with her restricts my relationship with him in some way completely contradicts my understanding of polyamory relationships. So no poly relationship here, of course.

I made it clear to him that the only two ways for me to stay away from having sex with people I find attractive, is if either they don't want sex with me or I stay away from them physically. I have neither the self-control nor any reason to resist and he knows it. I have not once tried to seduce him though after he told me he will not have sex with me no longer. But of course I still want sex with him because I love him. And as for me, this is something between the two of us, so I see no reason for me to hold back if he offers me sex. In my opinion (and he agrees with me on that) it is his responsibility to make this work with his life, so having made this decision to be her boyfriend he has to decide whether he is strong enough to control himself or if we should transform our relationship into a non-physical one. Both would be fine with me.

It's pretty obvious that this won't work, that's why I said that the final word hasn't been spoken yet. He will tell her about the cheating next time they meet in May (they have a long-distance relationship). I think though he should tell her sooner, so she can make her own decision if under these circumstances she still wants to travel all the way to see him. He was also trying to hide the decision he has made with her from me until we met again (we also live a bit apart), but I managed to find it out a little earlier. But I can only tell him my opinion, it's not my job to make his decisions or tell her, I don't know her and I wouldn't even know how to contact her. Anyway, our relationship will become non-physical, their relationship will open up, or he will find a way to learn how to control himself. We'll see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma
For some reason I was just wondering about his public relationship with you, if that is a factor or not. She is his legit "girlfriend," so does that mean she gets to spend time with his family, or live with him, or share his resources, etc, while you are the girl on the side? That may be ok for you now but someday you might want a partner who you can stand beside, and who can be there for you as well.
I don't know what they plan for their future, I guess they even don't know themselves yet as they also just got to know each other last year. But of course, I'm fine with that, as this relationship doesn't keep me from building up close relationships with other people. And I will love this guy no matter what. I don't love him for the role I'm allowed to play in his life, I love him for who he is. And if he chose to never see me again, I would still love him from the bottom of my heart, as I do with many other people who have left my life long time ago. I think he makes a lot of mistakes in this current situation, but I would never judge him, as we all make mistakes. Me too, of course, I'm not holy. Not yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma
I'm not judging your man, or your situation, believe me, just writing off the top of my head! (For one thing, I've set myself up for plenty of guilt in my lifetime! Trying to avoid it as best I can, these days!) I don't like it when people make assumptions about my situation, so please don't be offended by my questions/musings, because truly, that's all they are.
Oh, that's fine, don't worry, I can handle that! I shouldn't write in a public forum if I can't handle opposing opinions I see them as what they are: Other people's opinions. I will reflect about them and see if I can agree with them, learn something from them or not. I'm really happy when people tell me what they truly feel or think, so please feel free to let it all out without holding anything back

Last edited by Purpurea; 02-10-2011 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:44 PM
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He will tell her about the cheating next time they meet in May (they have a long-distance relationship). I think though he should tell her sooner, so she can make her own decision if under these circumstances she still wants to travel all the way to see him.
I've been in her shoes before, too. I once was in a long-distance relationship with someone I was crazy about, who had been involved with me in person and then moved away. We corresponded for about two or three months and he was so lovey-dovey toward me. We wanted to see each other again, so I made arrangements to travel, spending money I really shouldn't have. I even delayed starting a new job so I could be with him for a week.

When I got there, he told me he'd been seeing other people, and I was devastated. This was when I wanted only monogamous relationships. Never in his letters to me (yes, these were the days before email), did he indicate that there was anyone beside me that he was interested in. I had my hopes up that it would become serious and perhaps he might be someone I would want to move away for.

Not only was he seeing someone else, but he had slept with quite a few women and hadn't even been using condoms! Thankfully, he informed me of this on the day I arrived and not after a few nights of being sexual (though I always insisted on condoms). I cut my trip short and incurred more cost because the airline charged me for changing my plans.

It was just a mess, but mostly because I felt so betrayed. It is terrible when someone behaves deceptively. But waiting til I made such a long trip to tell me was even more cutting. I felt so dismissed and unimportant to him. He was surprised when I told him, "If I had known, I wouldn't have made the trip." I don't know how he didn't realize that having all the information would allow me to make an informed decision, one of which could be to walk away from the relationship. Somehow, I guess he thought I wanted to be with him no matter what. Pure arrogance on his part.

I know you don't think anything beyond your relationship with this guy is your responsibility, but if I were you I would insist that he tell her before being involved with him again. I just could not live with knowing that the person I am in love with is so uncaring, devious, and dishonest, not to mention what your involvement with him does to her.

I also think that there are probably plenty more people who would be open to a poly lifestyle than you realize, and so it really might not be as difficult as you think to find another boyfriend. But I would encourage you to be open and honest on all fronts and insist on the same personal integrity from your partners. Then you would truly be poly, not just cheating and okay with it.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:30 AM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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I know you don't think anything beyond your relationship with this guy is your responsibility, but if I were you I would insist that he tell her before being involved with him again. I just could not live with knowing that the person I am in love with is so uncaring, devious, and dishonest, not to mention what your involvement with him does to her.
I think it is indeed my responsibility to tell him my opinion about his behavior, and I have told him already that I think he should tell her right away. He rather wants to talk to her face to face than over the phone, which I understand, but that only works when you can see each other every day, or if it is something that is not that important. But he's a grown-up person, so I can't and won't make decisions for him, make him do something, or punish him. It was the same thing when he told me over the phone that we won't have sex any longer. I asked him why and he said we will talk about it next time we meet. He was very upset when I told him that I want to know now, not wait another week guessing what it might be. Holding back information from others is quite manipulative, I absolutely agree with you.

How can I live with it? Because I understand him. Because I know that although his behavior is uncaring, devious, and dishonest, he as a person is not. I'm not mad at him because of the mistakes he makes, I feel rather sorry for him. Loveless behavior towards others, is always loveless behavior towards ourselves in the first place, and that's actually pretty sad. People who act loveless, actually need love most of all. There is this proverb "Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it." and I think it holds a lot of wisdom. We all act loveless in one way or another. I might not hold back information from others, but I'm pretty sure I make some equally stupid mistakes without even being aware of it. I'm not religious, and I don't agree with the negative image of the Christian churches of all humans being sinners, but in the bible Jesus says: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." And no stone was cast. So I will not cast stones at others for their mistakes.

Quote:
I also think that there are probably plenty more people who would be open to a poly lifestyle than you realize, and so it really might not be as difficult as you think to find another boyfriend. But I would encourage you to be open and honest on all fronts and insist on the same personal integrity from your partners. Then you would truly be poly, not just cheating and okay with it.
That would indeed be great, and I hope I will find those people sooner or later. At the moment I rather feel like an alien with all my weird paradox views. I guess I'm not a human being, I just happen to look like one I will not leave my friend though, no matter what he does or who I will meet in the future. Leaving others because it hurts too much, is making them responsible for how I feel. I rather focus on overcoming the hurt than getting rid of the person who triggered it. I'm sure that in the long run I and the people around me will benefit from staying more than from leaving. The only thing that would make me leave is any kind of physical harm, as I won't be able to overcome the physical boundaries of this existence. But I can learn to overcome all emotional dependences.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:48 AM
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Thanks for this last post, even if it wasn't directed towards me I can see that you and he are working on it and figuring out some stuff. He is indeed human as are you. This kind of thing is not easy and requires much effort of the heart and brain. Good luck with it all.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:45 AM
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[...] So you are cheating then! I think you have a lot of fessing up to do and a lot of apologizing. You have destroyed the trust of another and come off as uncaring about it. Cheating is not poly. It's cheating... [...] you have already built a relationship on lies and dishonesty. The one you are in is based on that... you are still not in a poly relationship. You are having an affair. [...] There are a lot of poly people but not too many that would be interested in a cheater. Poly comes with a set of values that don't involve cheating. Poly is based on full knowledge and consent of all parties involved. You are not practising this [...]
While I agree with most of your comments (not just the ones I quote here), I think you're being a little harsh on Pupurea, and I don't agree at all with your evaluation that she "come[s] off as uncaring about it" or your calling her a "cheater". As she's said, she's "new to polyamory [... has] always been polyamorous throughout my life, I guess, I just wasn't aware of it."
I myself am new to the term and the movement "polyamory", and there's much for me to learn. Purpurea comes across to me as someone not at all new to the feeling, but new to the practice - and for a while, it was polyamory, because the "other woman" did know about it. SORRY! Not quite correct. It's not polyamory without all parties' consent.
But I assume that we're all feeling our ways along in this relatively new movement, I certainly feel that Purpurea's heart is in the right place, and I think that advice to a "newbie" from someone with more experienced in the movement should be more kind, forgiving, and understanding than judgemental.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:56 AM
Purpurea Purpurea is offline
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But I assume that we're all feeling our ways along in this relatively new movement, I certainly feel that Purpurea's heart is in the right place, and I think that advice to a "newbie" from someone with more experienced in the movement should be more kind, forgiving, and understanding than judgemental.
Like mentioned in my post above yours, I think anyone can express their feelings and opinions they way they want to. If someone wants to judge me, they are free to do so as long as they don't harm me physically I don't think judging people is the right way to enlightment though, but I have been judgemental myself and probably still am in a lot of situations. However, I haven't felt offended by redpepper's post at all, it is his/her point of view which I can choose to share or not. And compared to being called ruthless, selfish, and radical, which was definitely meant to make me feel bad about myself, his/her post was very kind and I felt it was rather meant as some kind of good advice
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:22 PM
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I feel for you. You have a "friend" that is stringing you a long. You are cheating on his girlfriend and he is using you for sex because he "can't control himself"... how long that will last is until he loses interest in the sex I think. The thrill of cheating or the thrill of it being under the table perhaps?... I would suspect that he is full of shit and you are enjoying his "I can't keep my hands off of you" bit... that is really quite sad and I wish for you that you find someone that is willing to cherish you in your entirety once you get your act together and act with some integrity.
Agreed!
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