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Old 10-04-2013, 03:08 PM
Cherub Cherub is offline
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Default Spiritually Mixed (Pagan to Non-Pagan) Married Poly?

My wife and I have enjoyed our marriage despite a few challenges. One of the more significant ones being our spiritually mixed marriage. She has been a practicing Pagan for the at least twenty years now having begun in Wicca, turned to Norse Heathenism and now meets with a Druid Grove largely because they can accommodate her Norse faith into their largely Celtic events and her fellow Heathens are now at a large distance.

While Ive attended a few of her events, I am not a Pagan so have limited my involvement to observing and respectfully asking questions. One of our gaps that shes identified in our relationship and hopes to fill in seeking another man in poly would be to experience these events not only with her friends, but with a Pagan lover. She did tell me that as a young Wicca practitioner, she had a profound experience in her first and only actual great rite, but has limited herself to symbolic ones since because we became engaged.

Since my own Spiritual path has become effectively solitary (and is difficult for me to label or easily express), it is difficult for me to comprehend how significant it is for her to experience hers with not just friends but an actual lover and wonder if anyone could comment on as shes struggled to convey this to me?

Respectfully.
-Cherub
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:42 PM
Bromios Bromios is offline
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As someone who consider himself pagan (with qualifiers), i thought i'd chime in though i don't know how helpful i'll actually be.

Pagans often place great emphasis on the idea of immanence. If you're not familiar with the term, it means the belief that the spiritual isn't "out there" but right here, and can be experienced through things other religions might consider mundane or 'worldly', such as sex.

Sex is powerful and primal, and so too is religion/spirituality. Combining the two can produce an extremely heady and even mystical experience.
Think about how closely connected you can feel to a sexual partner or lover. Introduce spirituality, and you have a way to connect with your god or gods very powerfully as well.

You mention that your wife said she had a "profound" experience during her first and only 'great rite'. It seems, to me at least, that it's important for her to have a pagan lover because she wants someone who she feels can help her recreate that experience.

Sexual rituals are actually something i've discussed trying with my own non pagan husband, because i'm a worshiper of Dionysus, a god with sexual aspects. I think it would be an appropriate way to honour him, but it goes beyond that. Like many people who worship a deity, I want to connect with my god in the most intimate way possible, to feel his presence as closely and powerfully as i can, and sex has the potential to give me that to a degree that prayer alone cannot.

I hope this has helped in some way,

Bromios
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Cherub Cherub is offline
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Bromios,

Thank you for sharing your insights. While your Pagan path and her's differ by tradition - she is closest with Freya who is also fertility oriented. Your description of divine immanence was helpful to me as is your association of spiritual and sexual experiences being potentially powerful and primal, especially wehn combined.

Is seeking a Paganish lover for the reasons you mentionedaside from your husband a difficulty in your relationship? How have you approched the subject?

Respectfully,
-Cherub
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:34 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Is that the only reason she wants a lover? To participate in sexual rituals? Or are there other needs? Does she have a prospect in her pagan community to fill this role?
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:09 PM
Cherub Cherub is offline
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Hello Magdyln,

To answer your question, while desiring a Paganish lover for rites is a significant reason, it is not her only one. It gets a little confusing to make distinctions, since Im discovering as Bromios indicated that my concept of what is religious does not always much hers, as she is devoted to Freya a Norse goddess who is fertility oriented and has explained that her being sexual is pleasing to her and her goddess.

FWIW, we have a good marriage and much enjoy our special time, which is usually anywhere from once to three times per day. I confess that I could still be happy with less, and she desires more and possibly much more.

While she briefly connected with a Heathen man who is not very local, and it looked like a good fit, something changed and things stopped before they got physical. She is communicating with a couple of men on OKC who are aware that shes poly oriented and looking, but neither are Pagan so will guess that these will remain casual. Both her Norse Heathen group and Druid Grove know of her poly intentions and support her search. Well see if anything develops as a result.

Respectfully,
-Cherub
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:07 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I find it interesting that you post this:
Quote:
She is communicating with a couple of men on OKC who are aware that she’s poly oriented and looking, but neither are Pagan so will guess that these will remain casual.

Both her Norse Heathen group and Druid Grove know of her poly intentions and support her search. We’ll see if anything develops as a result.
Quote:

it is difficult for me to comprehend how significant it is for her to experience her’s with not just friends but an actual lover and wonder if anyone could comment on as she’s struggled to convey this to me?
Just to double check because I'm not hearing it clearly -- where does your OWN consent to practice polyshipping stand?

Are YOU willing/able to participate in a polyship with your wife? Are you along for the ride? You don't much mention yourself. It's all "one of the gaps she identified... she wants this... etc."

Do you AGREE that is a gap in the shared marriage? Or a gap in her individual preference that affects the shared marriage? I am confused as to what YOUR preferences might be for yourself as an individual or for the shared marriage. What are they?

What is your current agreements? What is changing/changed?
  • What open model relationship is she suggesting?
  • Will you also be dating?
  • Is that a relationship shape in which YOU can thrive in?

Because it doesn't really matter "why" she wants to polyship at this point in time. It could be nice to know. But WHAT she does in her behavior and HOW she does it affects you more.

Right now? I'm not getting a strong sense that your consent to participate in a polyship was given. Could you be willing to clarify that?

1) Has she asked you if you are willing/able to participate in a polyship arrangement with her? Or not asked you at all and you need help telling her how you want to be treated?
2) Are you considering it and need help weighing pros/cons?
3) Have you given it and need help figuring out how to put it into practice?
4) Are you adjusting to the "new normal" now that you have given it and need help navigating that transition?

It's hard to tell which point in time you are at here and give you feedback.

Because what you ask here....

Quote:
Since my own Spiritual path has become effectively solitary (and is difficult for me to label or easily express), it is difficult for me to comprehend how significant it is for her to experience her’s with not just friends but an actual lover and wonder if anyone could comment on as she’s struggled to convey this to me?
Is basically

Quote:
I cannot understand why she wants to do this. She's struggled to explain to me and I do not get it. Can you guys explain why she wants this to me in a way I can understand?
My suggestion would be to stop asking WHY she wants to do this at this point in time. Just accept that she DOES want to do this at this point in time.

Move on to examine the rest of the question and move your thought process forward rather than keeping it in the stuck.
"She wants to do this. I don't get why but she wants to. So... Am I ok with it or not at this point in time?
  • Am I willing/able to participate in polyshipping with her in this way?
  • Am I willing/able to support her in this right now?
  • Do I need more time to get used to the idea in general? (a soft limit)
  • Do I need more data to make an informed decision about what it is we are practicing and what is being asked of me/my skills? And the time to research that before making a final decision? (a soft limit)
  • Do I need to accept that no matter how much time passes I will never be ok with this? (Hard limit)"
  • Do I need to accept that no matter how much we read together or learn, I will never be ok with this? (hard limit)
Move on to thinking all that out --- because you can always come back to "Why does she want to do this? I want to be able to understand?"
Could skip it for now, come back to that one later.

But could note that if she's not able to know her own wants, needs, and limits AND articulate them to other people so they can understand her -- that's a big communication skill in polyshipping to me. Maybe she is willing to polyship, but not fully able in her skills yet? Or maybe it is you on the receiving end -- she broadcasts fine but you have a hard time receiving? Either way...That will play into your polyshipping communication. It's worth sharpening both broadcasting/receiving skills for both of you.

I would identify that as a potential gap in the new polyship/existing shared marriage: Communication skills.

Consider what your NEW agreements would be in polyshipping --
  • Consider WHAT she does/will do in her behavior and HOW she is expected to do it
  • Consider WHAT you are/will be expected to do in your behavior and HOW you are expected to do it.

Discern if all that is agreeble to you or not so you can thrive in a polyship arrangement with her and not merely survive.

If your answer for "Am I willing/able to participate in polyship with her and X?" is anything less than a joyful yes?

Call it a "no" and let her know you are just not up for this at this time (soft limit) or ever (hard limit). Be honest with yourself and with her.

Then make your next choices from there. Take it one thing at a time.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-30-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:16 AM
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idealist idealist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherub View Post
rSince my own Spiritual path has become effectively solitary (and is difficult for me to label or easily express), it is difficult for me to comprehend how significant it is for her to experience hers with not just friends but an actual lover and wonder if anyone could comment on as shes struggled to convey this to me? Respectfully.-Cherub
It could be as simple as something like the fact that maybe you are an introvert and therefore more comfortable with a solitary spiritual path and she is an extrovert who really likes to share her spirituality with others.
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