*New and got questions
Hello to all.
( been in the lifestyle for about 3 months)
so I'm NEW, be gentle please.
[[Sorry this is long, but I need help]]
My wife and I (of 7years) were in our mid 30's and been married and divorced and we both have our children from previous marriage living with us ( neither X is involved at all)
My wife and I had a common female friend and things progressed into a FWB thing, more on the lines of exploring thing for wife and me. at the time the guy in me thought"hey sex with another women and it not cheating" and the wife was curious about women. we had discussion about her, and she relaxed and felt it would be fun to explore. the 3 of us were together alot and it was great.
the other women is just a friend now, as she moved on to find a 1st husband.
Shortly after that experience, My wife had discussed about finding a couple to "PLAY" with. I agreed it was her turn to have another man in our marriage since she had given me the FMF experience.
So we started looking on well know sites.
we ended up meeting a couple that have been in the lifestyle for 3years and seemed strong in there marriage.
Well it started out as a FWB thing. we all 4 clicked and communication between us two guys was strong. he was like a teacher to me and I his student (were both Alpha-male types) and the ladies immediately click from the first shopping trip they had before the 4 of us meet. The female and I clicked almost instantly and we bonded very well even before the first time in bed. My wife seemed very comfortable around him as well, after our 1st meet and great.
So it seemed comfortable.
Low and behold I was the "Wildcard" meaning I had the freak out and was mentally messed up about it. i e confused as to what/how/why i'm feeling the way I did. It was alot to see my wife receiving pleasure from another man. I know our marriage is strong, and it was very tough in the beginning. My female lover(the wife to the other man) was my ROCK. she immediately knew something was wrong and was emotionally there for me.
The other couple said many times that the level of connection and feelings were much more with us then ANY other couple they had been with in the 3 years they had been in the lifestyle. And that me and him communicating like we did was a first in his lifetime. So it was special to them and the cherished our FWB situation. They even discussed "Monogamy" that they are not looking for any NEW couple any more. But they had 1 other couple they had know and were close with since they started. The wife and I accepted that. And are good friends with there "Other" couple now as well. We don't play with the other couple. But we do BBQ's and stuff with.
Well back to the story.
After 2 months and several times us all being to gather (separate rooms,all together,ect) I started to relax and was not so freaked out and became very OK with all of it. I'm guessing cause my mind finally got wrapped around the idea, and we all had a 100% understanding that were not trying to take but give.
I started to see little things that bothered me, and my female lover and I grew SUPER attached and texted/talked and stuff almost hourly...
My wife was verbally(100% ok with it) she would read the text and hear us talking and it turned her on. So our sex in our marriage was great and my wife and I started reconnecting at greater levels. we talked more openly about everything, and nothing was of limits.
After about 4weeks in, I could tell my wife had grown attached to the idea of "loving him" I had already professed my LOVE for her and everyone KNEW it.
So again all seemed like i was learning and conforming to the lifestyle in a healthy way. I had grasped the teaching from him and was getting my groove. To the point the wife and I would even discuss what we should try and do with the other person. I was comfortable and able to discuss with out feeling jealous or threatened. So my wife and I were doing great. (we both still feel this way, that has not changed)
we as of a week ago, My female lover and I had grown so close. That we talked about EVERYTHING( life, situations,emotions, you name it) She had really started to bond with me like you would in the beginning stages of dating someone whom you would marry some day. (All well knowing we ARE NOT looking to replace) Her husband knew how hard we had fallen for each other and were so closely connected. My wife finally told him "I Love You" and I was ok with it. Since I had already done the same with my lover.
Well as of a few days ago, our couple finally admitted to each other they had major disconnects in their OWN marriage and needed time to reconnect. They had noticed they were not connecting as well as they had thought. I'm guessing it was due to me and my female love connecting so well and the things we texted and verbally said.
The whole time i was connecting to my lover, It was more of a transference of emotions and feeling that she had not been getting from her own husband. And had found it in me.
Now this was not the plan, and had been discussed countless times. We were not looking to replace.
So now here I am feeling like I was mislead and deceived. We have taken a slight step back, so they can "reconnect" I feel 100% supportive of that. Due to I have HIGH respect for him, and since they had done so much( unknowingly) for my wife and me. My wife and I connect and talk on such great levels now. And with out this lifestyle I don't think we would be so close as we are now. Now I feel obligated to help them to correct some issues in there marriage and be part of the solution not the problem....
1. Should I feel deceived? (being they didn't have as strong as a marriage as they lead us on to believe in the beginning)
2. Should I feel cheated out of what once was? ( I don't feel she and I will connect again at the same level)
3. Is this normal for couples to need to reconnect in such a strong polamory relationship, being they wouldn't admit to each other they had issues?
4. And the wife's lover is now saying he can give my wife the connection(mental) that he once thought he was. Because it a personality issue. And personality issues are tough to change.(even thou I did to conform to his way of thinking to be healthy and happy in this lifestyle.?
[Please give me all you thoughts and opinions.....]
I may have left out little parts, and will clarify the story as question and replies are made. So that I can clearly tell the issues and get the clarifications I need
Thanks for all your help!
To address your questions:
1) It is ok to feel deceived. Our feelings are what we feel. We don't fully control what we feel. What we can control is our reactions and thoughts about our feelings. So here is my suggestion.
I don't think this couple meant to deceive you or your wife in any way. As you mentioned, they've played with other couples before but have not gotten emotionally connected with the others. They fell in love - he with your wife and vice versa, you with his wife, and vice versa and apparently you have a strong friendship with him and your wives get along well. That's rare to find. And they were unprepared for the implications of falling in love with other people - namely that it highlighted issues in their own relationship. It is reasonable to that they simply could not have known beforehand. The thing about poly is that it will highlight in ways impossible to ignore any fractures, trouble spots in a relationship. But this is not obvious to people new to poly - it wasn't to me when I first started having poly relationships. My marriage did not end because of poly but poly certainly brought up the issues we had.
So while it is normal to feel deceived, I suggest to you that you assume the best about this couple. They did not mean to hurt you and your wife, they did not know the full implications of falling in love (and neither do you or your wife), they did the best they could with what they knew at the time. So feel those feelings of deception, but don't act on them, don't accept them as the 'truth' about the situation. They are your feelings, not reality. While you may still feel deceived, you do not have to accept or act upon those feelings. Feel them and then let them pass through you.
Also feelings are themselves deceptive. What you may be experiencing as deception, if you sit with it and experience it and think about it, may actually be loss or fear or grief. You did not mention jealousy but jealousy is often what I call a 'stand-in' emotion for another powerful emotion you are not ready to face, like fear. (That's a generic you, by the way. I experience this and I believe most humans do.) We feel things like jealousy in order to avoid feeling even stronger, more scary feelings, like fear, loss, grief. Anger is another common 'stand-in' emotion - it can also be the emotion that one is fearing to feel.
2. Again, you are feeling cheated. You are mourning possibilities that you were really attached to. That is ok! That is normal and expected. Feel cheated. You have suffered a loss, as has your wife, and your friend and his wife. Even though they are ones pulling back, they are likely still mourning the loss of you and your spouse. It will not be the same - that is life. Moments in time come and go and they don't come again.
But, here, is where patience and being forgiving with them and yourself is critical. No, it will not be the same. BUT... It does not sound to me from what you have written that they have slammed the door for all time on any possible relationships with you and your wife. They are taking a break, pulling back, to put their house in order. You may still have hope that you can still have a relationship with his wife, your wife with him, and friendships between all four of you. Do not lose hope just yet. Mourn what you thought would happen. That is a legitimate loss. But be patient. Give them the time and support (where appropriate) to work through their issues.
That old trope of letting a bird go freely and it may fly back to you is rather true. You still have a shot of loving relationships (romantic and friendship) but this is a major bump in the road and you and your wife will need to patient, forgiving, and let go of expectations. That is hard and very unfun. I personally hate it. Patience is not my strong suit. It is possible they cannot return to where they were - but they may end up in somewhere where you and your wife can connect with them again. But don't give up just yet.
3. I don't know about normal but yes this pattern of poly sparking realizations that things are awry in the primary relationship is common. Like I mentioned above, poly will make blindingly obvious relationship weaknesses. It is common for couples to then pull back and address issues. Sometimes they outright dump the non-primary partners, sometimes not, but it does happen a lot. If you read on this board, you will find many threads about this very issue. It can be hard to avoid because, well, one cannot know what you do not know.
4. I don't really understand what you are asking here.
But, even if this guy is a bit more experienced in poly and/or open relationships than you, that does not mean that his way of doing things will work for you. There are an infinite number of ways to 'do' poly. Basically, as long as everyone involved knows about the other partners, and love is involved, then it is poly. The rest is details up to you and your partners to find what works for you. And some of his ideas may work for you and your wife, others may not. You may have things to teach him.
Best of luck to you!
P.S. This quote 'Now I feel obligated to help them to correct some issues in there marriage and be part of the solution not the problem.' concerns me. I understand wanting to help and be supportive. I tend to lean towards the 'let's fix it!' axis myself. BUT YOU CANNOT HELP THEM. Not in any concrete way. You and your wife did not cause their problems. Yes, your relationships with them may have been the catalyst but that does not make you responsible for their marital issues. DO NOT TRY AND FIX THEM. You will 1) fail and 2) possibly screw up any possibility for continued romantic or friendly relationships with them. What you can do is be supportive, listen to them, and, if they ask, be sounding boards for solutions. But otherwise do not try and help. Their marital issues are not yours to solve. Attend to your feelings, and to your spouse, and be a friendly ear, if they ask for one. Otherwise - stay out of it. Do so gently and kindly, but butt out.
Last edited by opalescent; 08-30-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: additions
Wow great reply.. Just what i needed.
as to #4 question. He says I love you to her. But now with the complications he has said that hes not sure he can give the level of love(in his mind that she needs) she not asking for a Wife type love but, just a little romance
As to "Now I feel obligated to help them to correct some issues in there marriage and be part of the solution not the problem"
Yes that is what we are doing, were there to listen and NOT pass judgement or influence things. I knew the pit falls of over stepping that one.
Ive told them VERBALLY, that we love them. and support them in ANY WAY we can to help.
#1 & #2: are kinda the same question just different feelings.
I see where she was unknowingly transferring her feeling and love towards me.(now I do) and she and I still say our love is the same. But i know realistically that the level will be different and her connection may be different after they get the house in order.
who know things could even be better then imagined for us after....?
I guess the truth of the matters is they might have not admitted to each other the honesty of the errors in there marriage. Till our love between us 4 came so strong. We are honored to have connected so strong, and to be with them.
Yes patients is tough, and the feeling like you just broke up with your girlfriend, "But i still want to be friends" is tough was back in the day too.
we all still communicate daily(text, short calls) and I have faith that all is going to work out and be even better then imagined.
I personally have changed my personality so much to fit the mind set to be healthy in the Poly. And it scares me to lose what we have
I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that this couple probably did not realize the disconnect in their own marriage until their experience with you. If their other experiences were relatively less intense, then they may have perceived themselves as being really tight. Now they know it could be better.
It could very well be that given time, they will return and things will be even better.
As for the changes you made in your personality to learn and adapt to poly, they are not tied to the couple. They are a part of you and will remain, even if instead you all move on.
I understand your grief. I imagine many of us do.
My counsellor / life coach taught me to make a distinction between "feelings," "perceptions," and "beliefs." She talks about the "stories" we tell ourselves to explain other people's behaviour.
Feelings are like happy, sad, mad, scared, etc. In contrast, beliefs and perceptions are more like the causes of these feelings. They're the things most people mean when they say "I feel lied to" or "I feel used." "Lied to" and "used" aren't "feelings." They're a perception of an event, an interpretation of behaviour.
The reason I'm going on about this is that it helps to separate the emotions you're feeling from the perceptions you believe caused those emotions.
You're feeling sad over the loss of something you had. That's perfectly reasonable. Now you're telling yourself a story that they deceived you, that they they portrayed their relationship as being stronger than it actually was. That's your perception of their behaviour.
Have you considered the very likely possibility that they, too, believed their relationship to be more stable than it actually turned out to be?
To me, deception is deliberate. I don't see anything in your description that leads me to believe they intentionally hid problems in their relationship just to lure you and your wife in.
It seems more likely to me that their relationship indeed was healthy and stable in the beginning, and because of that, they took each other for granted. Instead of making sure they spent time maintaining their connection, they assumed their marriage would just keep ticking. Many people fall into that trap. It's not just a poly issue. New jobs, having kids, making friends, going to school... all of these things take time and energy. If people don't make a point of fuelling old flames,
If I'm understanding your #4 correctly, you're saying that while he's attempting to reconnect with his wife, he doesn't believe he can be there for your wife. That seems reasonable to me. Part of their problem is that they've been spending their time and energy on you and your wife. In order to get their marriage back to what they'd like it to be, they need to focus on one another and spend their time and energy on each other. It's equally reasonable that this would make your wife sad. It's a loss. Loss requires mourning.
I don't need labels to define me. They're sticky and I hate the glue they leave behind.