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Old 04-02-2013, 02:36 PM
AZtriad AZtriad is offline
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Default Feeling very confused and sad

So me and my husband have had a gf for 2 months. We are all starting to fall in love with each other. talking about moving in together and everything. till last night our world came crashing down. last night she told us that she doesnt think she can do this. this totally came out of no where. talking some more she told us that she is having a hard time that she and him cant have intiamte "alone" time and me and he dont have alone time. she thinks i dont trust her to have alone time with him. its not that i dont trust them. i let them go out on a date every week and im ok with that. as far as having sex without me. its not that im not ok with it im just not comfortable yet. me and him have been together for 12 yrs and married 10 yrs. im just working up to letting them be alone together. is that wrong of me to feel that way? im feeling extremly guilty, and sad. i dont want to loose her i love her very much. and my husband does too. i told him that he can have sex with her without me. i dont know if im 100% ready but for the sake of our relationship im going to be ok with it. she feels that its not fair that i get to have sex with him without her. and i get it shes right. so now im here hurt that she just broke if off before talking it over with us, scared and sad we are going to loose her. what do i do? was i wrong? :'(
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2013, 03:52 PM
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Natja Natja is online now
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Hey AZ,

I have a well documented problem with this configuration so I have to curb down my prejudice a bit, I have some negative experiences and I know some of the common pitfalls. So take from that what you will and I hope my advice is sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZtriad View Post
So me and my husband have had a gf for 2 months. We are all starting to fall in love with each other. talking about moving in together and everything.
Your last post on here stated you were feeling very emotional, vulnerable and left out, I know in triads when things seem up they are very up and they appear to mitigate the negative times, but do you really, seriously feel that when you have had a new and more complicated, emotional relationship for only two months, that you should discuss moving in together? Are you really ready for that sort of commitment? Please (x10000) do not rush that, it can be the worse decision you make rushing things when you still have SO much emotional work to do.

Quote:
last night she told us that she doesnt think she can do this. this totally came out of no where.
I think it is fair to assume it did not come out of no where to her, perhaps she had been expressing some dissatisfaction before but you did not recognise it because you were preoccupied with your own feelings of insecurity? Which, IIRC you had trouble expressing to them also? Try and put yourself in her shoes, she may be intimidated by your relationship and the fact that you feel it acceptable to pull rank on her and her burgeoning relationship with your mutual partner.
It could be possible that she feels that no matter what you will never really be equilateral and she feels controlled by you.
Quote:
its not that i dont trust them. i let them go out on a date every week and im ok with that.
She is his partner to....but your language is one of ownership 'I let them' this sort of thought process could come out in other ways making her feel destabilised and not in control of her own relationship.
Quote:
as far as having sex without me. its not that im not ok with it im just not comfortable yet.
Intimacy is an important part of developing and maintaining relationships, do you really think it is reasonable to control someone else's sexuality like that?
Personally if someone told me that I cannot have sex with my partner I would be quite vexed, well that is how she is feeling and frankly I would be disinclined to have sex with the person who controlled my sexuality that way (please note, I know that others have a completely different take on it, especially those who do hierarchy, but you describe yourself as a triad, we think of a triad as three people with equal rights as partners, otherwise you are just a threesome really, or a couple with a girlfriend if that is how you look at it, fine, that is ok, but call it what it is and make sure that your girlfriend realises where she fits in the scheme of things and allow her the freedom to leave and pursue other relationships that may give her what she wants, don't try to control her sexuality though and her ability to find and connect to a person who may be able to be numero uno to her, just as you insist on being numero uno to your husband anything less is not right.)

Quote:
is that wrong of me to feel that way? im feeling extremly guilty, and sad
.

Are you feeling guilty because you are keeping control? Or are you feeling guilty because you may have jeopardised your relationship? I think it might help to figure out the root of this guilt and then you may be better placed to knowing how better to move forward.

Quote:
i dont want to loose her i love her very much. and my husband does too. i told him that he can have sex with her without me. i dont know if im 100% ready but for the sake of our relationship im going to be ok with it
.

Well clearly you are not 'ok with it' you just mean you are not going to make a fuss beforehand, but does that mean you will be able to keep your cool during or after? It is worth being honest, but you also have to accept that your reactions are borne of insecurity (been there, done that...) and work on that primarily, rather than rely on controlling the behaviour of others. Frankly if your needs are being met (and it is clear that sexually you are getting what you want) than anything else is simply jealousy. Now personally I am always a lot more comfortable with 'out of sight, out of mind' I don't want to sit next to people, any people, no matter how much I may love them, having sex in front of me, now it does not bother some, I understand that, but it bothers me, so I would rather be out of the house, or they be out of the house, so, if you are really certain that this is the way you wish to play things, for goodness sake, tell them to spend the night at her house or even better, take yourself out and have a lovely time out without them, whether that is to see a movie or out to dinner, a girls night out with a friend drinking cocktails and flirting with half nekkid waiters, whatever floats your boat.
Do not sit in the living room crying into your ice cream whilst they get it on in a bedroom, that is a recipe for instant relationship death!!!

Quote:
so now im here hurt that she just broke if off before talking it over with us, scared and sad we are going to loose her. what do i do? was i wrong? :'(
You may lose her, simply because it is a very unstable configuration, stop thinking of her as a thing to own and start thinking of her as a person you value for her being who she is and the love she brings to your (as in YOU, not YOU and HUSBAND) life. He needs to walk his own path with her, once you stop thinking of yourself as a unit with the entitlement to full and equal joint access to your toy, you will be much more happy and she will be more likely to stick around.

I hope this helps,

Natja
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2013, 03:54 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Triads are complex and hard. There will be more bumps in the road like this. Things that are harder than expected for her, for you, for him. It can be hard to predict, and there may well be deal breakers down the road. Being in constant, close proximity will make everything 50x harder. I would strongly suggest waiting until the relationship is at least at the 1 year mark before considering everyone living together.

That said, did you do something wrong? Yes and no, that's a very subjective question. I don't think it's objectively "wrong" to say "threesomes only" but I do think it'd inaccurate to have that rule in effect and consider what you're doing to be a real, serious relationship of the depth to be ready to consider blending your lives. I'm a huge fan of threesomes, but I believe that one-on-one time is crucial for building real intimacy.

Some reading that may help:
http://www.morethantwo.com/coupledating.html
http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-c...nicorn-hunter/

Best of luck!
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:56 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default Opening Up.

Opening an existing relationship up in the ways that you are speaking about is difficult. For everyone involved. Many people on this forum demonize couples attempting to build triads; there are a lot of things that can go wrong, and after awhile those observing from outside can see patterns, and feel like they know what will come next. In some ways they do, but what they don't know is how it feels to open a marriage up; the feelings that result from that can be some of the worst feelings ever. Call it insecurity, jealousy, whatever you like - the reality is that you are suffering, and in the middle of feelings that you were not anticipating having.

You should not feel guilty about having uncomfortable feelings. They are a part of your experience, and they are an indicator to you that something is out of balance. The responsibility in this situation never belongs to just one person (ie - you.) or even two (ie - you and her). The reality of these feelings belongs to three people, and almost a dozen "relationships" (you and your own self, you and him, you and him and her, her and him, her and you, her and herself, him and himself, etc. etc. etc.) The thing with 'triads' is that they are exceedingly difficult to maintain - the initial flush of good feelings is so intoxicating, the sex is so hot, and it seems as though there is limitless potential. There are almost always snags, and those snags get complicated really, really quickly.

So, tell me this. Why do YOU have to be uncomfortable so that SHE can be comfortable? Many people will argue that you are being controlling, or feel ownership over your husband. I find that kind of language alienating, non-inclusive and judgemental. Any successful relationship is built on a series of events including respect, communication and compromise. All people are different, and have different needs, and while it can seem like you have run into what appears to be a very black and white situation (ie - she wants to sleep with your husband without you, you are uncomfortable with this idea, so you should deal with your feelings and allow her to have what she wants), it is NOT a black and white situation at all.

You and he have a longstanding relationship and commitment to each other. You love him, trust him and share a life with him. The addition of this woman has brought something magical to your life, and I imagine that he is loving it as much as you are. Y'all are having some very serious talks for two months in, but NRE (new relationship energy) will do that to you - it makes you high, and you only see the potential good. Moving in together is not practical. I can tell you that with 100% certainty, and telling people what to do on here is not really my bent.... so you can hear that with a few exclamation points.

Opening up that relationship to a third is something that you enjoy, and are comfortable with. That's hot. That's cool. That's fun and inclusive. But now they want to have a "dyad" (two people) within the triad. She has not asked to have a dyad with you, she has asked to have a dyad with him. This means that he and she get to be delighted, and you get to be upset. That puts you in a place where you're left holding all of the uncomfortable feelings while the two of them get even MORE high on NRE. Your discomfort is NOT just your responsibility - it also belongs to the two of them. Not in a co-dependent "You make me feel THIS" kind of way, but in the sense that all three of you are involved with each other, and the care and well being of all members needs to matter to everyone involved - respect, caring, gentleness and consciousness anyone? C'mon, it's good stuff!

And so, how to move forward? You're being given an ultimatum by a woman who you have only known for two months - let me sleep with your husband on my own, or I will break up with both of you. That seems pretty insensitive and rushed to me; where is her compassion and consideration for YOU? If you are feeling uncomfortable with the idea, why is she pushing so hard for it to happen right away, at her pacing? These are questions that people who think that you see her as "a toy" are NOT going to ask, and that seems strange to me.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it's her responsibility either. I'm saying that a successful relationship would involve all of you taking good care of each other's feelings. Maybe you should ALL stop having sex for a couple of weeks, and just talk with each other about how to manage insecurity, jealousy and upset, both yours and hers - she sounds jealous of your connection, and wants that for herself. Fair enough. Why doesn't she want that with you as well? To foster an independent sexual connection with you? Why only your husband? Or how about some conversations about what kinds of sexual things you would feel more comfortable with to start?

For me, this appears to be a great time for questions. For the potential removal of sexual contact to de-escalate intensity and allow everyone to cool off and do some cerebral thinking minus the intensity of physicality. For a re-evaluation of what you *might* be comfortable with to allow her some autonomy with your husband. It's a LOT to handle on your end, and don't let ANYONE imply that you don't have a right to your own experience or that you are less than perfect just as you are - there is no shame in emotions, good or bad; they are an experience, and yours is as valid and important as anyone else's in this relationship structure. Your feelings are valid, normal, understandable, and uncomfortable as an ass full of cacti-spike. If your partners care about you, and respect your feelings they will move at a pace slow enough to help you feel comfortable as well. Ultimatums, break-ups, high drama shit like that to force you into situations that are not comfortable for you speak of a disrespect and rushing that can only end badly for everyone.

It takes time, patience, negotiations, understanding, communication, compromise, pacing, integrity, honesty, the right combination of selfishness and selflessness and humility to open a relationship. Being rushed, pushed, forced, disrespected, shamed, left out or alienated will only hurt you and your marriage. Lovers will come and go, but if you two truly want to build something longer term with another lover in your life, you'll need to help each other move at a pace and intensity that is comfortable for both of you as well as all three of you - no one person's needs come before anyone else's. Desire, NRE, sexual lust, ideals and selfishness play HEAVY in triads, so take a step back and re-evaluate, spend some serious one-on-one time with your husband and be sure that you are on the same page, and have some talks with her on your own about your need for her to be respectful of your feelings, marriage and life while you struggle with some beastly emotions. If I were your girlfriend I would NOT rush you, I would listen to you, I would NOT push you to do things that you were not ready to. If I needed a one-on-one connection so badly before you were ready I would find one outside of the relationship - I wouldn't be trying to fuck your husband while you suffered. No way.

Does she have a right to her desires and feelings? Absolutely. But two months into a relationship with a long-standing-married-couple? Let's not rush things, eh? Let's be respectful of the fact that this is difficult for you, new, intense, and challenging. Let's move slowly so that EVERYONE can have a good time, and not be petulant and selfish.

Just my thoughts from a different side. Nobody but YOU knows what is right for you, but I will say with utter certainty that speeding things up will only create more problems. Hugs, hugs, and more hugs. Don't let anyone alienate you with strong opinions, find your own voice, and your own pacing.

Last edited by CherryBlossomGirl; 04-02-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:18 PM
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Natja Natja is online now
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I think the huge difference between how a single woman sees this situation and how a married woman sees it, is pretty indicative as to why triads are not very popular amongst single bisexual women, why triads rarely work and why lots of experienced Poly's think they are a bad, bad idea in general.

Natja
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:27 PM
northhome northhome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natja View Post
why lots of experienced Poly's think they are a bad, bad idea in general.
Natja
Is there some sort research / evidence you could supply to provide some background data to this statement?
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:42 PM
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Natja Natja is online now
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Quote:
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Is there some sort research / evidence you could supply to provide some background data to this statement?
Yes because there have been countless studies of the Polyamory community and what they say and do....what the heck stupid question is that? Have you ever been on ONE SINGLE pro triad thread on a Polyamory board ever?

The closest to it I have ever seen are threads in which every single person has been a unicorn hunter and none have actually been involved in a triad.
Yes, it is a bunch of people's opinions, but in the face of no positive examples otherwise I feel my statement does not need any academic validation. If you want to start an academic study to disprove my hypothesis feel free.

*note by triads I am specifically referring to a Unicorn situation where there is an original (usually married) couple looking for one single woman to love and be their exclusive partner. If this is not describing you, I am not talking about you.

Natja
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