overshare, undershare, all over the share...

[sparklepop]

Hello guys,

(Now... I have just searched for the tag 'overshare', amongst others - so please tell me if this question is constantly asked and I'll be happy to read old threads!)

I'm at a very comfortable stage in poly, finally. ~happy dance~ Being at such a good place, I'm not wanting to rock the boat. Our guidelines have evolved after two years together and now we are tackling the issue of overshare vs undershare.

Main question -
How do you balance overshare vs undershare? What works in your relationship, or for you? Mainly - what's your communication about having sex with someone? Do you communicate it or not? What about other things - messaging, dating, etc?

Background:
So far in our relationship, we've told each other almost everything. When we've been ready to sleep with others, we've checked in with each other, been given the green light and then told each other once it's happened. However... we've found that waiting for that sentence 'I slept with them' has possibly caused us more harm than good. We've also hit a stumbling block, because this technique has applied to new people (i.e. three dates, have sex)... but there's a different kind of person in the mix now, who neither of us know how to navigate.

I won't go into detail; but I do not like my girlfriend's potential secondary. We've talked at length and I want her to just go ahead and have the experiences she wants with him. I'm feeling much better about that going on, but don't want to get hit with a truck when things start to happen. She has a date with him this weekend. I'm wondering if it's a better idea to just not have the 'we had sex' discussion. I would like her to be able to enjoy her sexual freedom and for myself to not have to stress about something I really don't need to stress about.

I don't like complete Don't Ask Don't Tell, because I love feeling close and connected to my girlfriend. I don't want secret lives. But I know there have been times when we would have found more enjoyment in sex with others if we had been able to be more spontaneous about it and have less worry about hurting each other, or breaking a guideline.

I don't know whether to say 'You don't need to tell me about this particular guy, but let's stick to the old way about new people', or what? I'd find it really, really useful to hear your specific experience on this and what works best for you.

[LovingRadiance]

We have an understanding about what behaviors are allowable for what type of relationship (platonic friend behaviors/fwb behaviors/committed full time gf/bf).
So-we don't give a play by play as things happen or when they first happen.
It's "hey-I'm moving this friend to committed gf level". Then we know what types of behaviors COULD be happening-but we don't need to know when or exactly what.
For example, I have someone I have identified at a specific level, but I haven't chosen to DO any of the behaviors that I COULD for that level of relationship. But if I do and when I do-I don't need to check in over that again-it's already established that those activities are acceptable.

[toodles]

Hey Sparklepop, Like the question! We operate on an 'Consideration Not Information' rule. Don't just inform me after you've done something. Tell me what your plans are. Otherwise, I'm just your audience, not your partner in crime. If I'm looking for partners, consideration not information. I tell my wife I'm ready to start a big ol' chunk of dating until I find one or two that fit. I ask her if she's ready for it and ok with that. She's always says yes, but it's good to ask. I don't just inform her that I've made a bunch of dates. If I want to sleep with someone, consideration not information. I tell my wife that the attraction is strong enough to sleep with that woman, in general, after the first date. That way, she knows I have intent. I don't tell her when I sleep with her, what I've done, how we've done it.

We used to tell each other about each person we had sex with. But now, we get STI tests every 3 months. We also have a no exchanging of fluids rule for safety - no blowjobs, no oral, unprotected. It makes no difference if I sleep with every woman I have a date with, or none of them. I'm not going to leave my wife. Sometimes, if I've been dating a woman for a while and then we break up, but we haven't slept together, I'll tell my wife that we never slept together.

I think that too much information causes pain that doesn't need to be there. We only tell each other when new things happen, or something changes - like, we've got a message from a new person, or we've got someone's number, we're falling in love with someone, or they're falling in love with us. Consideration, not information. I consider my wife in everything that I do. That doesn't mean I don't have sex with people. It means that if she's not happy, I talk to her and make changes. If I wanted to sleep with everyone I could sleep with, I would be single. My wife knows where she stands with me, knows how often I want to see other people, knows what I want in life. If something changes, I don't just start doing it then let her watch on. I tell her 'I'm thinking that I'd like to do this', consider her, then act. That's poly marriage, to me.

Our only dont ask dont tell thing is that if we want to watch porn, have sex online with a stranger, or whatever, we dont have to tell each other. That gives us a bit of naughty fun and light relief, without it being a big deal or something to stress about.

[LovingRadiance]

I like the way you term that "consideration not information".

[riftara]

This particular subject has, for us at least, changed as we have grown in our poly relationship. In the begining, John wanted to know everything about everyone, so I told him. As my relationships got more serious and longer, he asked for less and I gave less.

Now, we check in before having sex with someone new, but execpt in rare cases, we have been dating them and we already know after the first date if its a possibility.

We dont kiss and tell now, but we do warn before it happens. I think that eventually we will get to just "this is a posibility sometime in the future"

Maybe your relationship is maturing to the next level, where you dont want or need to know any more. I would let her know that you dont want to know or dont need to know this time, but you may next time and leave it at that for now

[Anneintherain]

Originally Posted by sparklepop

I don't know whether to say 'You don't need to tell me about this particular guy, but let's stick to the old way about new people', or what? I'd find it really, really useful to hear your specific experience on this and what works best for you.

What do you get from that in the long run, you'll assume she slept with him but not have verbal confirmation? Anytime she starts dating somebody you don't like do you ask for this again? I can see not wanting to discuss it in length, but I'm curious why a statement is has happened is more stressful than the assumption it's happened. Can you figure out what feels better about not discussing it at all? Is it just that you don't want to hear the process as she goes through sharing where she is at on the road to sex with him?

There's nothing wrong with saying "I dont really feel good about this person, do what you want but I don't want to hear about it" But I think its good to make sure you know what its about - maybe you have valid reasons for thinking they are not a good partner and so this is just an exception, maybe there are some personal issues to work on. I like knowing when other relationships become sexual but to me that's just a status update - dating -sexual relationship -moved in together - committed but not planning on merging households- engaged, etc.

How does you knowing she had sex with him hamper her sexual enjoyment? You mention worrying about her sexual freedom and spontaneity, could a bit of this be you projecting and wanting to have your own spontaneity but find it easier to couch it terms about what she might want?

You mention worry about hurting each other or breaking guidelines. If it's what you want, is it possible to revisit agreements so you're both comfortable with spontaneous sex being fine happening as long as safe sex rules are followed and it's brought up quickly afterwards?

Just to note - my personal experience, my husband and I wouldn't likely have spontaneous new sex partners, if we did for some reason, safe sex rules should be followed and it'd be brought up ASAP. To be clear neither of say we are comfortable with a do whatever then let me know afterwards arrangement. We share a computer room so chat about "I like this person" I'm messaging this person" I want to ask this person out for coffee" is natural. I'd find it untenable to have Adam tell me he didn't want to what was happening with somebody, I just wouldn't date them then if he had that response to them when he'd been fine with everybody else I'd dated. As I couldn't avoid knowing when he was on a date with somebody even if I didn't like them, I'd expect to know when they had sex so that conversations like "the condom broke last night, her lasts STI tests were in September and were negative, but I am going to do ___ about it/Pregnancy worry discussion needs to happen" or "Soandso's SO tested positive for ____" so what do we do about this" or "I want to spend the night at Soandso's house" would make sense and be in perspective.

My boyfriend, I'd prefer to know if starts dating somebody and is thinking of having sex with them, but if things moved fast I'd at least expect to find out before we had sex again (I'd tell him the same) Besides knowing about new partners that'd really be the extent of it. As I don't think he'd welcome more discussion than that, if I liked the person or not he was seeing it'd really be a moot point. No clue if any of that babble was helpful.

[sparklepop]

The first time I read this, I swear I saw something about Margarita night... hahaha.... But, yes, it made absolute sense

Thank you so much for the specific view of how you and your husband navigate it as well; that was really, really helpful.

Originally Posted by Anneintherain

What do you get from that in the long run, you'll assume she slept with him but not have verbal confirmation? ... Can you figure out what feels better about not discussing it at all? Is it just that you don't want to hear the process as she goes through sharing where she is at on the road to sex with him?

It's a good question. I think with him... it's that I already know she wants to sleep with him and if she has the opportunity (i.e. he is home alone), then she will. Unlike other partners we have had, where dates progress to sex and it can be a bit more planned out, sex with him seems like it would be more spontaneous, since he is only 24 and still lives with his parents, and we do not have people back to our house. You know, or maybe they'd do it in the car, or in an alley, or whatever. Haha. So, I was thinking that instead of her having to tell me she's had sex with him, or trying to plan it out, she could just go and do it when she wants to, with my blessing. Agh... I don't know, Anne. I'm stuck!

There's nothing wrong with saying "I dont really feel good about this person, do what you want but I don't want to hear about it" But I think its good to make sure you know what its about - maybe you have valid reasons for thinking they are not a good partner and so this is just an exception, maybe there are some personal issues to work on.

Hmmm... I know. I've been thinking about this a lot, and about why I'm so uncomfortable with him, but it seems to be a multitude of things. Without going into too much boring detail, she met him at the start of our poly pursuits, when things were a little less considerate and we caused more pain than necessary. Learning curve, etc. So perhaps subconsciously, he's still stuck in a bad time for me. They've been back and forth for over a year... she decides that he's selfish, then that he's wonderful, then that he's rude, then that he's the sweetest boy on the planet... In the start, I was insecure about him. Then I got better. Then insecure. Back/forth/back/forth. I finally 'met' him online recently (as he has been in another state for 6 months) and it just didn't go down well. He didn't do anything ungodly, but just doesn't seem to have knowledge or respect for our relationship and it quite self-centered and immature. Something just doesn't sit right for me with him... and... to be honest? Maybe it's just that I'm exhausted from my GF's rollercoaster emotions about him... having to listen to her being upset about him and me feeling protective of her... then the next day, her becoming giddy over him again.

But you are probably right... there probably are personal issues to look at. Aren't there always?

How does you knowing she had sex with him hamper her sexual enjoyment? You mention worrying about her sexual freedom and spontaneity, could a bit of this be you projecting and wanting to have your own spontaneity but find it easier to couch it terms about what she might want?

Could be a bit of this, for sure. But, she has told me in the past and more recently that she feels restricted, like she could have slept with many, many more people by now, but hasn't, because of consideration for myself and her husband. We have never been monogamous together... since we met two years ago, we've always been poly. A lot to learn and plenty of growing pains and insecurity in the first year. She seems to have recently got it into her head that other poly people "bang everything that moves", because she has seen some couples like this on the BDSM scene, and now she's feeling frustrated that in two years, her only fully sexual partners have been myself, her husband and one guy. She says that she bends over backwards to accommodate us and wonders when her return will be.

So, with this guy, or maybe future ones, I was wondering whether taking a more casual approach to her sleeping with others might help her frustration, so that she can enjoy her freedom without having to worry about us being insecure. I am secure in our relationship and am not worried that she's going to leave me... but I'm just not sure that hearing about it helps me.

You mention worry about hurting each other or breaking guidelines. If it's what you want, is it possible to revisit agreements so you're both comfortable with spontaneous sex being fine happening as long as safe sex rules are followed and it's brought up quickly afterwards?

I was thinking the same thing to be honest and have suggested we go over our guidelines before she goes on her Saturday date.

Insecurity or issues from myself or her husband seem to make her feel trapped after a while. She seems to be crying out for freedom at the moment. I don't feel like I can ignore that. When she told me about her date, I made a conscious effort to sound at ease with it... but she said that I was visibly uncomfortable. To compound matters, her husband is not overly supportive and literally tends to grunt at her when she mentions dates... this then seems to get taken out on me if I don't dance on the ceiling about her dating. So, I kind of feel that rather than risk sounding upset about her sleeping with this guy, if she doesn't have to have the conversation with me, I can deal with it quietly and not put extra pressure or guilt on her.

My boyfriend, I'd prefer to know if starts dating somebody and is thinking of having sex with them, but if things moved fast I'd at least expect to find out before we had sex again (I'd tell him the same) Besides knowing about new partners that'd really be the extent of it. As I don't think he'd welcome more discussion than that, if I liked the person or not he was seeing it'd really be a moot point.

I would too, to be honest. She has talked about not seeing this guy, since it makes me so uncomfortable; but I just don't want that kind of resentment hanging around and I know she would feel it.

[Anneintherain]

Originally Posted by sparklepop

The first time I read this, I swear I saw something about Margarita night... hahaha.... But, yes, it made absolute sense

Ha yes. Then I edited. I saw Ernest Hemingway's quote yesterday “Write drunk; edit sober.”

I can identify with most of what you said, the trying to figure out what to do when you aren't 100% sure of either path. I think it's great you've already thought about all the sides of everything already.

Reading your responses, my path would likely be ditching any requirement to talk about and get OK for sexual partners ahead of time and see how that worked. She'd hopefully feel comfortable doing whatever felt right for her, and you'd either find out she was doing stuff that made you uncomfortable (ie a new partner every few weeks who wasn't proactive in their sexual health, getting involved with people who cheat, a string of one night stands only or taking her freedom and getting into lots of intense NRE situations). Or you might find that your interactions are blessed because you're not distracted on your dates about discussions of what might be happening next.

Her dealing with her husband and their agreements, well at least that's up to them, at least you wont be worrying you're "stifling" her.

Originally Posted by sparklepop

She says that she bends over backwards to accommodate us and wonders when her return will be.

In a timely fashion I was having a discussion this month about what negotiation meant to me, and I brought it up to my husband. For me I don't feel like negotiation is giving something up, it's working to make sure both parties are comfortable. For my husband it was more along the lines of if he does or accepts some things that he doesn't really want, that he is OK with that because at some point there will be a "return" This has led to some interesting talks, but if he said he felt he bent over backwards to accommodate ME and and expected to get his at some point - if I didn't feel he was justified in feeling that or he had not mentioned that agreements he made weren't what he'd really want - I think I'd be a bit worried about that and what it indicated (no idea what the actual situation is in your relationship of course).

[Daysleeper]

My partners and I all know about one another's partners, but we share different amounts of information about them. One of my boyfriend's can enjoy hearing stories about my husband; the other can't. I don't think it's because he wishes I wasn't poly, it just doesn't make him feel good to hear those details. It may not be rational, but nobody is always rational, and that's okay. You don't need to make a big deal out of it. You can just say that you'd rather not hear about this person. It may not make sense, but it's how you feel and it's easy to accommodate.

As far as your general guidelines go, I'd try tweaking things a little at a time so you can see how it works for you instead of making a drastic change in one go. A few months to test the waters should not be that significant in solving this long term issue. Perhaps let your partner know you're not sure about the best way to handle information sharing going forward, and ask of she'd be willing to do some trial and error woth you to try to find something that works better for both of you.