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  #1  
Old 11-04-2012, 03:14 AM
dante8198 dante8198 is offline
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Default Need some advice please.

Bear with me, this may be a long one.

CLIFFNOTES:
1. Happily married for 10 year. Swingers for 5 of that.
2. Met a single female that I hit it off with and have fallen in love with
3. Still love my wife more and more every day.
4. Discussed the poly lifestyle with my wife. She said no way, I would just have to suppress those feelings.
5. Feelings have grown and now its hard to have both relationships going.
6. At a cross roads. May lose one or the other and losing either of them makes me feel like I am going to puke. (please see last paragraph)

I am in need of some advice on what to do. I am being torn apart inside trying to figure it out on my own.

A little intro. I am happily married for almost 10 years to my wife Sara. She was my best friend in high school. I am a very giving guy. Never ask for much. Almost always give up my needs to please my partners needs. We have been into the swinging lifestyle for 5 years. We have a very strong relationship. Very open minded with lots and lots of communication. Thats the only way it works. In that 5 years I have made some close female friends, both single women and married women. My best friends have always been females. Most have moved on or left the lifestyle ... save one, we will call her Kim. Thats where things get a little complicated.

About a year and a half ago we met Kim through the car show scene, which I am a part of, so her and I pretty much hit it off right away. Pretty shortly after we started playing both as a 3 some and I played solo with her too. Kim and I became best friends pretty quick and have talked pretty much every day the full year and a half. My wife knows we talk everyday, knows we are best friends and knows we play solo from time to time. I don't hide any of that from her.

About a year ago I started to realize that I was having a lot of the same feelings for her as I did for my wife. I didn't know what was going on, but it just felt right. At the time I just kinda ignored it. It has grown to much more now though. I know Kim feels the same too because we have actually talked about it. We didn't try and stop those feelings. Just let them grow and played within the rules that Sara and I had set for swing lifestyle.

I realized and admitted to myself earlier this year that I love this woman and have talked to Kim about this too. She too feels the same. The part that had me going nuts was that I hadn't lost any of my feelings for my wife. I started doing some research earlier this year on the poly lifestyle and it just clicked with me. It just felt right and kinda explained a lot of what I have felt for a very long time. Like way back into my high school days.

A couple months ago I was having a conversation with my wife after SHE had recorded the married and dating shows off of showtime and was watching them. This was after my research into the lifestyle and while I was trying to figure out how to bring it up with her. I took the opportunity to talk to her and it didn't go so well. She really wasn't on the same page as I was on this one. I told her that it felt right for me and that I really think its how I am. She was hurt and didn't understand how I could love anyone but her. Didn't tell her that I had feelings for Kim, just that I felt like I could. The conversation ended in her saying I would just have to suppress this poly feeling and she just wasn't ever going to be into it.

Since that conversation it has been a little weird. She was friends with Kim, but has pulled away and sometimes gets a little jealous of me spending time with Kim. She has never once told me I couldn't talk to her or see her, but finds ways to intervene from time to time. I have had to cancel plans with Kim more than I would like and that has made it very hard on Kim and I. Things are fine with my wife and I but I have had to re assure her a few times when she thought I was pulling away. Have done real good showing her that nothing has changed though. She has said that herself. I have also felt a little bit of anger/resentment that I have to suppress these feelings.

This weekend we had a big car show in Vegas where Kim and I were together solo for a few days and had plans to spend Halloween night together then my wife was going to join us the next day. Well she decided to surprise us a day early and pretty much ruined our plans. Had some other preexisting plans for Thursday that Sara knew about and was invited to but said she didn't want to go. After the event was over she made a scene and left me with little other options than to follow her to smooth over what was simply me eating dinner with a couple hundred of my friends where Kim happened to be too. This was kind of a straw that has broken Kims back. She was very upset and ended up leaving Vegas early because she couldn't stand to have another night of fun with me ruined like that.

So here is where the advice is needed.

At this point I am at a cross roads. Kim is ok with the poly lifestyle but Sara isn't. The thought of loosing either of these women in my life makes me sick to my stomach. My relationship with Kim is worth fighting for. I feel like my only options are to either go to my wife and talk about the poly lifestyle again or to just suppress the feelings and hope I can get over the resentment. If I go to my wife and talk to her about the poly lifestyle and tell her about the feelings I am having she will be hurt and I risk losing her. If I don't, I risk losing Kim.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I stick up for my needs this time or just cower away and hope I can keep them buried without it hurting myself doing so?

Thanks in advance.
Chad

Last edited by dante8198; 11-04-2012 at 03:19 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:37 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I'm sorry you are hurting.

You could take the personalities out of the equation to see if you feel the same when there are no names. Here's how it would read if you remove the names:
At this point I am at a cross roads. I am in a non-poly relationship. The thought of not being in a poly relationship makes me sick to my stomach. (yes/no?)

My desire to be in poly relationship is worth pursuing. (yes/no?)

My options are
1) pursue a poly relationship
2) just suppress the feelings, stay in a non-poly arrangement and hope I can get over not being in a poly relationship.
3) Something else that I can't think of yet or am not aware of yet.
If I break my non-poly relationship and state my desire to be in a poly relationship, then I will no longer have my non-poly relationship.

If don't break my non-poly relationship, I risk not having a poly relationship.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I pursue my desire for poly relationship? Do I ignore it and hope I can keep the desire buried without it hurting myself doing so?

When phrased like that, do you still feel as strongly? Would you still feel as strongly about ending your non-poly partnership to free you up for POTENTIAL future polyshipping? If you choose YOURSELF (versus choosing wife or choosing GF) -- where does that put you at? Because who is to say you will stay with Kim if you leave Sarah for her? Maybe you end up with zero partners. Maybe you end up with two other poly partners entirely that are neither Kim or Sarah.

You have to reconcile your desires and make a call there. Is 1a the only open model your wife will consider? Are you clear about what open model relationship you want?

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/p...iola/open.html

Maybe that could be a helpful talking tool with wife? Or anything here?
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-04-2012 at 04:54 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:45 AM
dante8198 dante8198 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I'm sorry you are hurting.

You could take the personalities out of the equation to see if you feel the same when there are no names. Here's how it would read if you remove the names:
At this point I am at a cross roads. I am in a non-poly relationship. The thought of not being in a poly relationship with two partners makes me sick to my stomach. (yes/no?) YES

My desire to be in poly relationship is worth fighting for. (yes/no?) YES

I feel like my only options are to either
1) pursue a poly relationship
2) just suppress the feelings, stay in a non-poly arrangement and hope I can get over the resentment of not being in a poly relationship.
If I break my non-poly relationship and state my desire to be in a poly relationship, then I will no longer have my non-poly relationship.

If don't break my non-poly relationship, I risk not having a poly relationship.

Is there any advice on how I can handle this situation? Do I stick up for my needs for poly relationship or just cower away and hope I can keep the need buried without it hurting myself doing so?

When phrased like that, do you still feel as strongly?

Galagirl
Thanks for the response Galagirl. I am currently reading through your blog too.

I answered above. I like how you put this. Take the people and personalities out and see if it still fits. And to answer your final question. Yes I do still feel as strongly about it.

I was reading in your blog about just being able to express that you are poly and talk about those things is really what is important. We have that ability to talk openly about the swinging stuff, but when I went to my wife about the poly, it was totally different. It really caught me off guard how difficult it was for her to even talk about it.
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:56 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Sorry... I was still editing.

Quote:
We have that ability to talk openly about the swinging stuff, but when I went to my wife about the poly, it was totally different. It really caught me off guard how difficult it was for her to even talk about it.
Well, the next question is -- would you feel fulfilled having poly expression with Sarah even if you do not have a poly partner?

Would that be doable for you both?

Could she Open that far to meet you in middle ground?
Could you Close that far to meet her in middle ground?

Galagirl
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:13 AM
dante8198 dante8198 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Sorry... I was still editing.



Well, the next question is -- would you feel fulfilled having poly expression with Sarah even if you do not have a poly partner?

Would that be doable for you both?

Could she Open that far to meet you in middle ground?
Could you Close that far to meet her in middle ground?

Galagirl
That would be a compromise for sure. I would say that being able to talk about it and not act on it might still be very hard, but it would be a start.
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:58 AM
dante8198 dante8198 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmelt View Post
No, they're not.
Guess I opened myself up for that. I should say that other than this issue, things are good with us in my opinion. However since my initial discussion with her, this has been an underlying issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmelt View Post
Poly is not about fighting. Who or what exactly are you thinking about fighting?
By "worth fighting for", I mean that I don't want to just tell Kim to pound sand because Sara doesn't want me to have that kind of relationship. Which I suppose answers my own question. Its worth the discussion with my wife.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:27 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dante8198 View Post
By "worth fighting for", I mean that I don't want to just tell Kim to pound sand because Sara doesn't want me to have that kind of relationship. Which I suppose answers my own question. Its worth the discussion with my wife.
I removed my original reply because I sometimes can be blunt, and I thought galagirls's softer approach may be more helpful to you than my blunt approach. Since you quoted me and answered me, I'll tell you the rest of what I was thinking.

There are people who swing with the intention of getting sex without emotional involvement. Emotions happen when they want to. They happened to you.

I would stop looking at your situation as though your wife is getting in the way of what you want. I would not assume by leaving your wife and going to Kim, under your present circumstances, you will be happier than you are now.

The best thing you can do is to take a step back from the urgency you feel and talk to your wife in depth about her needs and your needs. Having a conversation with her that is deeper and more intimate than the two of you have ever had before will move your relationship with her to a new place. That new place may help both of you understand what's going on a little better. Reacting to your urgent feelings is not going to help you.

Last edited by snowmelt; 11-04-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:01 AM
dante8198 dante8198 is offline
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Blunt isn't always a bad thing.

Your note about the swinging is dead on. It definitely happened to me.

And for the record, I don't think that the grass is greener on the other side. I feel like for me the grass would be greener with the fence knocked down.

Believe me, we have had some very deep and very open conversations. In our previous conversation about poly we talked about specific feelings she had and I tried very hard to put her mind at rest on that front. Of course that was just the first conversation and maybe she has thought more about it since then. Maybe its time to have another of the deep talks about it and see where things go.

Thanks for the replies. This is very helpful. I have been lurking on this site from time to time for while. Glad I joined and posted my question. Has me searching away and reading some very good information.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2012, 06:17 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dante8198 View Post
Maybe its time to have another of the deep talks about it and see where things go.
Exactly.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:03 AM
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Helo Helo is offline
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Ask yourself "Do I want a POLY life or a life with these two specifically?"

If you just want a relationship with these two specific women and cant really see yourself being interested in other people, "suppression" (gods I hate that term) is more viable. Given enough time, feelings can cool down to manageable levels and you may find you didn't actually like Kim as much as you thought you did.

If you are shooting for an actual poly life, suppression is relationship suicide. Mono and poly dont mix and you will end up in a situation where you or your wife will be very unhappy and the other very happy depending on who gets their way. Eventually one will start to resent the other and it will eat your relationship alive from the inside out.

Best idea is to answer that question and go from there.

If the answer is you want THESE two women specifically and you'd be happy with just them, it MIGHT be workable. It sounds like your wife is basically (emotionally) monogamous and to someone who is mono, poly is an entirely different language so she may never understand fully. You can talk to her and determine specifically why, find out if there are any lynch pin fears holding her refusal together and if they can be addressed. But you may have to face the possibility that the concept is just not for her and she wants nothing to do with it.

If you want a poly life in general, your options are much more limited. Again, determine if she's got specific fears that you can allay but you may still have to face the fact that she's emotionally monogamous.
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