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  #1  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:06 PM
ThunderZag ThunderZag is offline
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Default Mono-Poly relationship, need advice

I apologize in advance if I ramble a bit.

I have been with my Fiance (I'll call him Abe for now) for 6 and half years. We came into the relationship knowing that I am not poly and he is. We have always agreed that when the opportunity arose for a poly relationship we would go slowly to make sure that I would be comfortable and assured that I wasn't just being replaced. He has had 5 different women that he has attempted to bring into the relationship. The first 4 failed miserably for various reasons. The 5th woman (I"ll call her K for now)is the current "attempt".

Abe and I moved to the South Bay Area back in April of this year for is new job. We started subletting half of a house from a co-workers friend. The person we are subletting from is K. About 2 months ago I had agreed that Abe and K could have a physical relationship but that I wasn't ready for them to start dating yet. To try to keep it short I'll just say that that ended badly within a couple of days. We all agreed that before it was attempted again that I would be informed and that they would do nothing without making sure I knew about it and was ok with it again. Took a couple weeks to settle back into being friends/roommates. I had been told by both of them that they didn't have any feelings for each other, other than as friends. Neither of them acted any other way than as friends.

Two weeks ago my mother passed away. It was rather unexpected and sudden. While I wasn't close with my mother most of the time, I did still love her as my mother and am still devastated with her loss as now I know I can never fix the relationship I had with her. K paid for the entire trip for me to be able to attend my mother's service. Three days ago, I am informed that Abe and K have serious feelings for each other and cannot control them any longer. I am also informed that they have already started exploring a physical relationship. While no intercourse has occurred there has been make-outs and heavy petting and gratification with hands. Needless to say I feel rather betrayed by both of them. However I am more able to forgive Abe as he has always told me that he couldn't promise he would never "cheat", but that he would try to follow the rules we had agreed to as much as possible. He says he got caught up in the heat of the moment with K and knows he messed up very badly. I, however, seem unable to forgive K. Part of that is that Abe did tell me what happened, a few day after, but he did tell me. K has yet to say a word about it.

Anyhow, after a long talk, I have agreed to just jump in and let them explore their feelings for each other, with understanding from both of them that, while unfair, I need more attention from them than they will be able to give each other as I'm still grieving over my mother. Yes, the timing couldn't be worse...

Abe has laid down a handful of baseline rules that I agree with, and I'm willing to try. My problem right now, is that I don't feel very rational or logical. I have never been able to lie to people, I tend to be honest to a fault without meaning to be. Abe has asked that I not confront K, or treat her any differently than I did before all of this came up again, because he doesn't want her hurt. K tends to react VERY badly when she is hurt. So now I feel like I'm lying to her because I'm acting like I'm ok with everything and that she hasn't caused me any pain. Any time I tell Abe that there are some things I'm not ok with him doing with her, he tells me I am being unfair to her.

So I guess long story short.... I'm willing to try to take this on, but at what point do I get to be "selfish" and be more worried about me and how I feel about something than be worried about if it will hurt K or ruin the chances of them being happy together? Being as we have never really gotten this far with any of the other 4 women, I'm at a loss as to what is normal to feel and what is ok to say or do and to whom and when. I just don't know... I'm hoping some one here has had some experience at least a little similar and can help me with advice on how they got through it.
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:21 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Dating the landlord is a sticky wicket.

Quote:
About 2 months ago I had agreed that Abe and K could have a physical relationship but that I wasn't ready for them to start dating yet.
What does that mean? They can share sex but not have emotions?

I don't think you guys understand your polymath tiers there. You can be honest RIGHT NOW.

Feelings are just feelings -- they blow on through. Although your thing is a "V" it reminds me of this thread. I'd reply the same to you -- you guys could talk in trio about how you want to to be together.

There's nothing wrong with being honest. You can be honest and present your information in a non-violent communication kind of way. I do not see what he fears. What does he fear?

You are not going to learn emotional management as a "V" trio by avoiding dealing with yucky emotion when it should happen to pop up.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-22-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:31 PM
ThunderZag ThunderZag is offline
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I wasn't ready for it to become more serious than just sex. I knew that they liked each other, though I believed it was as just close friends, not falling in love. I wasn't ready to have him move into her bedroom, and go on dates alone, and all that tends to come with NRE.
I also have serious reservations with her and Abe dating as she is also dating two other men and refuses to tell either of them about each other or Abe. I personally feel that if she won't tell the other two men she is seeing for the last year about each other, and now won't tell them about Abe, how am I supposed to trust her not to cheat on 'us'? And I say cheat because both of the other men believe they are in a closed mono relationship with her. Before she and Abe decided to start a dating relationship, and we were all just friends, I didn't let it bother me because it didn't affect me more than to make sure not to mention one to the other or vice versa.

I also admit that I have trust issues with other women Abe dates because all 4 previous women had made it clear that once Abe started dating them that he was to dump me. And since K still won't tell me anything about what she has done with Abe or how she feels about Abe, I'm not so sure that she cares about me enough to not do the same.

Last edited by ThunderZag; 10-22-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:17 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
he has always told me that he couldn't promise he would never "cheat", but that he would try to follow the rules we had agreed to as much as possible.
By saying this to you, Abe clearly told you he doesn't have the boundaries or maturity to honor agreements. The situation you are in now is a very reasonable and predictable result of his poor boundaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
So I guess long story short.... I'm willing to try to take this on, but at what point do I get to be "selfish" and be more worried about me and how I feel about something than be worried about if it will hurt K or ruin the chances of them being happy together? .
Any time you're ready. Are you ready yet?


Unless he puts a lot of work into changing himself, the man he is now is the man he will continue to be. You may want to consider taking a step back from all of this drama, and take another look at who you are and how you want to live. The very first line I quoted above says a lot. He is telling you he may or may not have what it takes to follow through with agreements. To me, this means any further agreements he makes with you have very little value. If you want to stay with him, this is the most important thing to resolve. He will have to do the work. The dramas will continue until he does the work or you leave the relationship.

Last edited by snowmelt; 10-22-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:36 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I also have serious reservations with her and Abe dating as she is also dating two other men and refuses to tell either of them about each other or Abe.
Ack.

So he does not want you to be honest with her.

She is not honest with her other partners.

Why are YOU dating Abe?

You seem to want honest in your relationships -- he's not delivering. Neither is she.

I have to agree with snowmelt -- maybe you need to step away?

Galagirl
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:07 PM
ThunderZag ThunderZag is offline
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There are several reasons that I am not ready to walk away from Abe. The biggest for me is that, this is the first time that he has actually broken a promise to me in the 6 and half years we've been together. It's the first time that I have ever felt I couldn't trust him completely. He has never 'cheated' in any sense till last week, and has never lied to me about anything. We have a lot of history, and have been through a lot together, and several times it was just us against the world, and that's hard to just walk away from. Last week they both broke the promise they had made and he is still the only one who has talked to me about it. And I can't help but give him a lot more credit than I can her because though they did it, and he was late in telling me, he did tell me. She still hasn't said a word about any of this to me. She only talks to Abe about her feelings for him, and tells him repeatedly that she just wants to be part of our relationship, with both of us. She tells him she doesn't want to hurt me and she doesn't want me to leave, and that she doesn't want to be hurt either. Abe is desperate to 'keep the peace' with no more tears shed (I've been crying a lot lately) and that why he wants me to 'lie' to her and just pretend everything is fine, and not confront her for her part in this, he doesn't want her hurt either.
I admit that right now, I couldn't care less about whether or not I hurt her, but I don't want to hurt him. And I know that logically that is probably because of the 'other woman' aspect to it all, and that's why I haven't yet said anything to her. But am I wrong for not really feeling like she is my friend?
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:43 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I understand you still want this relationship. I still see some things that don't fit. I'm going to try to show you those things by quoting some of your own words back to you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
She only talks to Abe about her feelings for him
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
She still hasn't said a word about any of this to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
and tells him repeatedly that she just wants to be part of our relationship, with both of us.
If she wants to be a part of "our relationship with both of us", why is she not talking to you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
and that she doesn't want to be hurt either.
She doesn't want to be hurt, but she is willing to tell two other men, that she is dating at the same time as she is in this relationship with you and Abe, that she is exclusive with each of them. In other words, she doesn't want to be hurt, but she is willing to lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderZag View Post
But am I wrong for not really feeling like she is my friend?
It is always a healthy thing to respect your own feelings. In my opinion she is not your friend.

Take a look at the first 3 lines I quoted above. Take a very close look at them. If all 3 of those lines are true, they cannot come from the same person. Since they do come from the same person, they are not all true. This means she is not being totally honest with either of you. She is manipulating both of you. It's hard for Abe to see it because he has poor boundaries.

Do you see it?

Last edited by snowmelt; 10-22-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:40 PM
ThunderZag ThunderZag is offline
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I see it, Abe doesn't. He has always had problems seeing faults in people, especially those he has feelings for. She has told Abe she is going to sit down and talk to me about all of it tonight. If she actually does, and admits she did wrong, then I'm willing to try to forgive and move on. However if she doesn't, or if I ever find that she is hiding things from me, or lying to me again, I'm done.
I don't need 'friends' like that.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2012, 11:27 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Ugh. I'm on the fence as to whether I ought to reply or not due to continued high emotions over the mess in my own life. So-take it with a grain of salt.

There is a limit to how far it is reasonable to limit your partner due to your own unmanaged insecurity. Insecurity is the responsibility FIRST of our self. Our partner can act as 'support staff' in our efforts to manage our issues, but they shouldn't be expected to quit being themself for extended periods of time due to our ongoing unresolved issues.

That said:
secretly dating more than one is cheating. Period.

Not communicating honestly and openly with partners AND metamours is a recipe for disaster. It is lying and dishonesty WILL destroy trust, increase insecurity and increase conflict.
In point of fact; it doesn't matter WHO is being dishonest with whom. Anyone who notices will lose trust. As you are experiencing in your awareness that she is lying to two other men AND you are lying to her which is increasing your dis-ease, distrust and general lack of comfort and security in the relationship.

I won't regale you with the long version. But, I have recently posted A LOT regarding metamours avoiding dealing with me AND lying in our dynamic. The damage of such actions is severe and I highly advise that you find a way to calmly and reasonably state to bith of them that dishonesty isn't going to ever result in healthy relationships, cheating has no place in poly and that while you are willing to work on yourself and support him in creating additional healthy, honest, up front relationships-anything including cheating and lying isn't in the cards.
Then-get real with yourself and define boundaries that allow him to create loving relationships IN SPITE of your ongoing fears. Feel free to look at our boundaries if you like-and check out Galagirls too. Outs very much address my husbands ongoing insecurities, while allowing me the freeedom to maintain my relationship with my live in boyfriend.
Be sure to include time limits for when you will re-address any boundaries that are strictly for allowing you a chance to work through grief or insecurity. Its not fair to just leave it open to 'whenever I feel comfortable' because you will never become comfortable until you face down the. Ir umstances and situations you fear and experience them working out.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:28 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Oh! And- NRE is not an exceptable excuse for lying or cheating either.
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