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Old 02-17-2012, 04:20 AM
arrowhead arrowhead is offline
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Default Spiritual Sex

I am not a Pagan (at least not yet) but I am very interested. I have also known for some time that I am poly. My wife is not poly and is very much against it. I am not in a continuous poly relationship b/c of this. I am also a nudist.

In my Pagan studies, I have come across terms like "skyclad" and "sex magick." Being a nudist, being skyclad would seem quite natural. Sex magick seems a lot like tantra, or spiritual sex. One author even equated the two, so right or wrong, that's the bent I am coming from.

I have some friends that also believe in sex magick. At one time when my wife and I were separated last year, I had some very positive experiences with them. In fact, we openly discussed having a poly relationship.

Spiritual sex is something my wife has no interest in but I really believe in it. Question: Does my marriage trump my spiritual beliefs? I am trying hard not to make a justification for "cheating." It is really frustrating not to have this level of intimacy though; and I don't feel it is wrong to want that with more than one person.

For the record, I decided last year to stay in my marriage for a variety of reasons. I didn't get into a poly relationship with the other couple for this reason. But we are still very close and I am sure things could get intimate if I wanted it to. I am very open with them regarding where I am at but it is so frustrating not to be able to act on what seems natural.

I used to be Mormon and my beliefs have slowly evolved a lot over the last 7 years. It is becoming more difficult to stay in a marriage where I can't do what comes naturally to me. I love my wife in so many ways, but we also have many differences. I am having second thoughts if I made the right decision. My wife has done nothing wrong - it is me that has changed. We just have different preferences and levels of comfort. There is a lot more to this story but I'll leave it here for the time being. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thanks.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:31 AM
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Geez I cant help but I can empathise. Ive gone off ALL religion and my wife is very into it. I'm stuck.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowhead View Post
My wife has done nothing wrong - it is me that has changed.
wow, this is very rare...

for my experience i may say that with very few basic "infos" we should be "able" to live a deep, spontaneous, spiritual Meeting within sex in love.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:48 PM
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We can love someone deeply and still grow apart. Marriage as lasting forever is an outdated concept.

If she is really holding you back to the point where you really can't be yourself, it might be better for both of you to part.

Sex and spirituality can be the core of one's being. Who wants to live their entire life with their core needs unmet?

*hugs*
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowhead View Post
In my Pagan studies, I have come across terms like "skyclad" and "sex magick." Being a nudist, being skyclad would seem quite natural. Sex magick seems a lot like tantra, or spiritual sex. One author even equated the two, so right or wrong, that's the bent I am coming from.

I have some friends that also believe in sex magick. At one time when my wife and I were separated last year, I had some very positive experiences with them. In fact, we openly discussed having a poly relationship.

Spiritual sex is something my wife has no interest in but I really believe in it.
Hopefully you are aware of this already, but more often than not, the sex magick being performed in a pagan or wiccan group is symbolic and does not actually involve physical sex. From what I learned in the few years I spent being involved in Wicca, I can tell you to be careful about participating in any ritual sex or sex magick within a group. Ritual sex, whether for the Great Rite or some other reason, is considered sacred and is mostly performed in private by committed partners, or those with whom you have developed a large amount of trust over time and are at the same level in their studies. No reputable coven would require sex as an initiation, and very few traditions will engage in sex or orgies as a part of group rites. Certainly, taking part in sexual rites -- or even being skyclad -- should only be an option and never a requirement to belong to a group.

When the physical act of sex is part of a ritual, it should be a very intimate sharing of one’s body and spirit. There are predators out there to be wary of. Some join groups looking for sex, because of some misconceptions they have, and others lead groups to take advantage of their position with members who don’t really have knowledge of what is appropriate.

Sex In Circle: A Philosophical Treatise On Ritual Magick

The Great Rite
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:04 PM
arrowhead arrowhead is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Hopefully you are aware of this already, but more often than not, the sex magick being performed in a pagan or wiccan group is symbolic and does not actually involve physical sex. From what I learned in the few years I spent being involved in Wicca, I can tell you to be careful about participating in any ritual sex or sex magick within a group. Ritual sex, whether for the Great Rite or some other reason, is considered sacred and is mostly performed in private by committed partners, or those with whom you have developed a large amount of trust over time and are at the same level in their studies. No reputable coven would require sex as an initiation, and very few traditions will engage in sex or orgies as a part of group rites. Certainly, taking part in sexual rites -- or even being skyclad -- should only be an option and never a requirement to belong to a group.

When the physical act of sex is part of a ritual, it should be a very intimate sharing of oneís body and spirit. There are predators out there to be wary of. Some join groups looking for sex, because of some misconceptions they have, and others lead groups to take advantage of their position with members who donít really have knowledge of what is appropriate.

Sex In Circle: A Philosophical Treatise On Ritual Magick

The Great Rite
Thank you for the advice. Actually, paganism is very new to me and I am still learning about it. My only exposure is the few friends I have in it and a book I am reading by Joyce Higginbotham. I appreciate the links you also provided. I was not aware that The Great Rite, or other rituals in kind, can also be practised symbolically. I have a long way to go in understanding the ins and outs or paganism. I don't know exactly where my beliefs fit in either. I am taking my time and asking a lot of questions.

Again, my biggest problem is when my spiritual beliefs about sex or even poly, run headlong into my partner's belief in marriage and what that is supposed to be. The only alternatives I find are either to "practice" my beliefs in secret (an option I don't like) or leave the marriage (another option I don't like). Sometimes it seems like you have to take a few steps back to move forward. I don't know if this is one of those times.

I appreciate everyone's responses so far. However, is there anyone on this forum that has left a marriage over belief differences or b/c they knew they were poly and the other spouse couldn't accept it? I feel selfish and yet, I want to acknowledge who I really am w/o having to pretend. That seems like the right thing to do. You know...coming out poly or having non-standard beliefs about sex is, I imagine, like coming out that you're gay. Some people can handle it and some can't. What do you do with those who are close to you that can't?

I would appreciate any insights anyone could offer if you have gone through something like this. Thanks all for your help.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:15 PM
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Well, of course, marriages can break up for many reasons, infinite reasons. I was with my ex for over 30 years but shouldve gotten divorced after 20, if not for the kids.

We held differering spiritual beliefs, he was into Native American, I am into a combination of Wicca, Asian and Greek mysteries. That wasn't a huge problem, but our communities really started to differ.

Also, I am naturally poly and no matter how I tried to suppress it and hide it from him, downplay my crushes (I never cheated), he was always jealous. Plus, I am queer and he is straight.

There was more to it, but it was a great decision to finally make the split. I am so much happier now.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:18 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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What exactly is spiritual sex? And why would any loving married partner resist such a thing ...sounds delightful. Are you saying she doesn't like sex?...just can't wait til you climb off or finish.

If your wife is mono and adamantly against poly wouldn't be easier to explore spiritual sex with her, (teacher her that) than all the coping skills, fights, heartache, she will need to adjust to you having spiritual or any other kind of sex with other partners?
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
What exactly is spiritual sex? And why would any loving married partner resist such a thing ...sounds delightful. Are you saying she doesn't like sex?...just can't wait til you climb off or finish.

If your wife is mono and adamantly against poly wouldn't be easier to explore spiritual sex with her, (teacher her that) than all the coping skills, fights, heartache, she will need to adjust to you having spiritual or any other kind of sex with other partners?
Spiritual sex is...well...spiritual. It is more than just orgasm. It is a connection and buildup and infusing of energy with your partner. It is becoming one psychically as well as physically. I have only experienced it a few times and quite by accident (the stars were aligned I guess), but when I have, it is a different experience. It is another plane of sex altogether. I am also a yogi and know about the seven chakras. When serpent energy goes from your base chakra up through your spine to the final chakra at the crown of your head, it is a feeling of spiritual bliss and oneness. Spiritual sex, tantra, or sex magick (if the terms are synonymous) is like that. I am sure there are differences between the traditions (and I am slowly learning about them), but this is what I want to explore with her or any partner.

Yes it does sound delightful doesn't it?! And yet, my wife has no interest in exploring such a thing. I have tried to get her interested several times, but to no avail. You would think that a woman would be interested in having this sort of relationship with her partner, but she is not. It isn't something important to her. And this is one of the problems I have in the marriage: if I want to explore, I have to do it by myself. This is not the only area of mismatch with us; there are several others. So in the end, I can't share my deepest self - physically, psychically, or socially. And THAT, is what I long for more than anything. Is there anyone on this forum that wouldn't want that too?

I have often thought that it is unrealistic to expect one person to meet all our needs throughout life. That is one reason why Polyamory - aside from what seems like a natural fit for me - would allow all partners to have their needs met. But she is not interested in poly; either for me or for her. I am more than willing to let her have a poly relationship too to have her needs met that I can't fulfill. I am sure it is just as frustrating for her. Yet, she does fulfill some of my needs. But as time goes on, the more apart and diverse we seem to become.

Am I being unrealistic or selfish about me desires?
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:46 PM
arrowhead arrowhead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
What exactly is spiritual sex? And why would any loving married partner resist such a thing ...sounds delightful. Are you saying she doesn't like sex?...just can't wait til you climb off or finish.

If your wife is mono and adamantly against poly wouldn't be easier to explore spiritual sex with her, (teacher her that) than all the coping skills, fights, heartache, she will need to adjust to you having spiritual or any other kind of sex with other partners?
Spiritual sex is...well...spiritual. It is more than just orgasm. It is a connection and buildup and infusing of energy with your partner. It is becoming one psychically as well as physically. I have only experienced it a few times and quite by accident (the stars were aligned I guess), but when I have, it is a different experience. It is another plane of sex altogether. I am also a yogi and know about the seven chakras. When serpent energy goes from your base chakra up through your spine to the final chakra at the crown of your head, it is a feeling of spiritual bliss and oneness. Spiritual sex, tantra, or sex magick (if the terms are synonymous) is like that. I am sure there are differences between the traditions (and I am slowly learning about them), but this is what I want to explore with her or any partner.

Yes it does sound delightful doesn't it?! And yet, my wife has no interest in exploring such a thing. I have tried to get her interested several times, but to no avail. You would think that a woman would be interested in having this sort of relationship with her partner, but she is not. It isn't something important to her. And this is one of the problems I have in the marriage: if I want to explore, I have to do it by myself. This is not the only area of mismatch with us; there are several others. So in the end, I can't share my deepest self - physically, psychically, or socially. And THAT, is what I long for more than anything. Is there anyone on this forum that wouldn't want that too?

I have often thought that it is unrealistic to expect one person to meet all our needs throughout life. That is one reason why Polyamory - aside from what seems like a natural fit for me - would allow all partners to have their needs met. But she is not interested in poly; either for me or for her. I am more than willing to let her have a poly relationship too to have her needs met that I can't fulfill. I am sure it is just as frustrating for her. Yet, she does fulfill some of my needs. But as time goes on, the more apart and diverse we seem to become.

Am I being unrealistic or selfish about me desires?
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