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Old 11-09-2011, 01:45 AM
Times2 Times2 is offline
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Smile Hello from C and D

Hi. I am a poly noob too. I saw that term on a previous thread and thought it was cute and figured that I would use it since that is exactly what me and my husband are. We have the real thing. Our kind of love is the truest of the blue. We have been married for nearly 10 years now, (thanks to Anthrax)`long story. We have been sexually involved with another couple the entire length of our marriage and love them dearly, but we are looking for a more committed relationship just for me and him. We have discussed seeking out a third person for our family for the last few years. I was the one who brought it up to my husband who at first was pretty against the idea. He said that no one could come between he and I. When I explained to him that I wanted to love this new person like I love him and wanted him to love the new person as he loves me, a wife, or a husband, then he finally started to understand what it was I was saying. Though I love our other couple, our relationship with them started many years ago, for me it has been twice as long as my marriage to D, we don't have the kind of relationship with them that has been weighing so heavily on my mind. My husband is John Wayne straight and I am bisexual but we don't want just a new sexual partner. In fact, sex doesn't even have to play a role in it, not that its forbidden, just not required. We are looking for someone as committed to us as we are to each other. We want to court this new person and hope to fall in love and hope he/she falls in love with us. My husband and I refer to each other as each others' best friend. We want to add one to that. Part of the thinking that lead us here was what if one of us dies. How will the other go on? The one left behind needs someone to help them get through the pain. Someone to hold the hand and sooth the pain and love back to life and convince me or him to go on. This kind of sounds selfish but our hope is that this new person will benefit from us as well. We want a new member to our family.
Well, that's us. I hope to learn a lot and maybe even find the person we are looking for here.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:13 AM
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What if you meet an amazing woman and there's chemistry between all three of you and you start to build bonds and it becomes apparent that love had taken root between her and one of you -- but not with the other? Would you let that relationship flower or insist that she try to love you both or insist that the relationship end? This is a very common scenario.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:26 AM
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That is something that I would or he would have to accept. We have talked about just this issue for a long time. We would have to be adult enough and open enough to back up and search out own hearts for any feelings of jealousy or resentment. I could not make someone love me any more than he could make someone love him, let alone try to force someone to love the other. All of us, as a unit, would have to 'accept' the differences in our marriage. We don't want a short term, maybe it will work kind of relationship. We want another husband, or wife, another member of our marriage. That to me means the commitment I made to D, would be made to that person as well. And those he made to me, be made to her or him, and visa versa. I've seen this 'unicorn' term floating around and I don't know that I like it because it makes me think we will never find the soul we seek. But, I have hope. We tossed this around for a couple of years now. We just think it's time to act on it.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:00 AM
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First of all, forgive me for being so rude and not saying this at the start -- hello and welcome!

It's good to hear that you guys have thought about this scenario and are committed to honoring whatever love comes your way, even if it doesn't take the exact form you are seeking.

It is certainly not impossible for you to find a woman who's into you both, but couples often set out with these very unrealistic ideas of who such a woman needs to be and how it will all work. Thus the unicorn term, since people think they are looking for a real woman but are actually looking for an idealized imaginary woman to full a role, and are shocked when reality doesn't match with fantasy. Here are some good thoughts from the perspective of the potential new woman, that may be helpful for you: http://www.morethantwo.com/coupledating.html
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
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We grok, Times2.
"We are looking for someone as committed to us as we are to each other. We want to court this new person and hope to fall in love and hope he/she falls in love with us."
We have had a hard time explaining this part to people at times most monogamists think of polyfidelity as polygamy and I have no idea how the general poly community views it.

That article was very interesting and thank you for sharing it AnnabelMore.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:28 PM
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Thank you Anna for the link. Very intelligent piece. I believe that Nathan understands completely what we are looking for. I suppose that the kind of relationship D and I are talking about could be considered polygamy because for all intents and purposes, we are looking for a second wife or second husband, which ever we find, and all the responsibilities and benefits that would bring. I think this is something he and I have discussed for so long that we already, in our hearts have accepted a new wife/husband so now we just have to find him/her. I suppose the feelings we have could be compared to those of the polygamist fundamentalists Mormons without the religion part and there may or may not be sexual contact as that would not be a requirement. Don't get me wrong, I love sex and am bisexual but this is an affair of the heart we seek, not of the loins. So if you look at it in the context of polygamy, then this new person would take on the same role as any husband/wife with one of us or both of us, whatever the case may be. One of the biggest things that brought us here is the death of one of us. You hear these romantic stories of couples who are so entwined spiritually and emotionally that when one of them passes on, the other follows shortly thereafter. That would happen to us. The one left would grieve themselves to death. I have two grown children and he has two nearly adult children, we do not have a child together so if one of us dies, we will lose everything of the other. I want to make sure that there is someone there to lean on for whoever is left. So often you hear about a husband who marries within months after the wife's death or visa versa and everyone presumes the 'affair' was happening prior to the spouses death. I believe that it most likely wasn't and that these grieving partners are looking for someone to fill that void, that emptiness and anyone will do. This way, there is a prior relationship, one that has grown and flourished and everyone involved has had to chance to love and witness the kind of life the other may lead after a passing. I saw the term 'line marriage" in the definition section and it kind of describes it to some degree. Say I die first. D and his other wife, B, grieve for me but are very in love themselves and they go on and have a happy life together but the same worries come about for them. So they seek out yet another so that no one will ever be left alone. The find this person, fall in love, and again there are 3. I think it's a wonderful way to live and keep love alive.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2 View Post
I don't want to sound selfish, but we know what we want, and we hope to find a single person to add to our marriage, not a couple. We kind of don't think that will be much of an issue simply because we won't be looking for that couple, but be seeking out a single who hopefully will be seeking for a couple like us.
My guess is that this will be greatly limit your options of partners, especially considering that you're not (I assume?) in the age bracket where people are not yet likely to have sought out a life partnership (late teens, early 20s). There are definitely some great solo poly people out there who are older than that (hi Nycindie! ), but it may well be that they are single out of choice and aren't looking for a closed life partnership.

I think it's this desire that the new person come without existing partnerships or existing "complications" that leads to unicorns often being younger then the couple they're joining (definitely a pattern I've noticed, at least). This can lead to other problems, unfortunately, such as the new person being a little naive and not really knowing what they want or what they're getting into, and/or not having the communication and relationship skills to navigate the situation once they're in it.

It takes someone really strong and confident to stand up for their needs in a healthy, effective way in the face of two people with a long-standing partnership when they're the newbie who's still figuring out how they fit in, *especially* when the other people are older and more experienced. Such a person who can really handle that tricky position well -- probably an experienced poly person in your own age bracket -- is likely to have one or more old flames, lovers or partners that they'd be loathe to discard for a couple of new people and an untried triad. I'm not saying it'd be impossible to find such a person... just hard. Maybe a divorcee, or a widow or widower?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2 View Post
You may start thinking now that what if the new person meets someone and wants the chance to explore their feelings with that 4th person...that would not be something we would be willing to be a part of. We aren't looking for another couple, we aren't looking for a quad relationship, or communal marriage. We simply want one more person to be married to. And if that person is married to us, then there would be no others but us. We want a wife, or a husband, a faithful spouse for the rest of our lives.
To be honest, I do find this bit really, really selfish. You two have been involved with another couple for years, so you *know* that commitment and sexual exploration with others are not mutually exclusive. So why demand sexual fidelity from your new third when you've been living happily without it for so long? Why assume they can't be serious with you and still be interested in someone else? Why leave the door open to continue being involved with the other couple you two have your long-standing affair with as long as it's ok with the newbie, but bar the door to anyone else they like?

You two have been together a long time. You have your established patterns and rhythms, you know with absolute certainty the role you play in each other's lives. There's great safety and comfort in that. No matter how welcoming you try to be to your new third, it will take a long time -- years, if ever, before he or she really feels on the same "level" as that with you (after all, I'm sure it didn't all happen overnight for you two!). So under the scenario you've described, you two get the security of your settled love AND the thrilling, scary, exciting, tumultuous experience of new love... while the new person only is allowed the latter. How is that supposed to make him or her feel like they're really being treated fairly? You two got to decide for yourselves that you were ready to open up to a new love without it riskng your existing love... how is it that the new person is never to be allowed to make that same determination?

I'm absolutely sure you guys have pure hearts and only the best intentions, I am. But what you're looking to do will radically alter your existing relationship and build brand new ones within the triad you look to form. That can be wonderful, but it wil also almost certainly be unpredictable, and it will take a great deal of discarding of preconceptions and openness to what comes, and to the fact that it may not look like what you expect. With what you've described, you guys make all the choices, set all the standards and rules, and the new person can take it or leave it. I don't see that as authentically building a new, equal, three-way relationship... I see that as trying to find the simplest, least threatening way to add a new person to your existing relationship like an accessory, like (as you've described above) a "love insurance policy" for when one of you dies. The reason I've taken all the time to type this out is to convey one message -- it's likely gonna be more complicated than that.

Btw, a "vee" is when one person is partnered to two people who aren't partnered to each other.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:07 AM
Times2 Times2 is offline
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Thank you so much for your input Anna. It is greatly appreciated and you have made us look again at what it is we expect. You are right, some of this does seem very very selfish for us to ask of someone in the poly community. As we have been posting and putting into black and white our intentions and thoughts, the more we are understanding that maybe the polyamorus community isn't where we need to be. Apparently we are polygamists. Now that you have brought up the issue of the other couple, we can and have agreed that because tje other couple are our best friends and will understand exactly what we are looking for and why its important to us, we will not ask the new person to accept or be part of any extra marital activities with them and we will cease as well. How can we ask someone to be faithful to us and accept it be ok if we wanna get kinky with old friends. I suppose we just learned that what we truly want is a plural marriage...polygamy. Exclusivity between 3 spouses. Thank you for helping us learn that about ourselves.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:44 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Heh, it's funny, I suppose it's pretty obvious that my suggestion would've been to consider opening up more rather than the reverse. But you guys are not me and I certainly can't tell you what's right for you. I'm glad you found my words of use.

I would say that the sort of closed, three-person polygamous marriage you're seeking is a form of polyfidelity (closed relationships between more than two people), which is a form of polyamory (love between more than two people), so you're still in the family in my book.

You may continue to get people questioning your method, since more than one person here had started with the goal you did and then moved to a more open model (as per RP's story above). Still, I would encourage you to continue viewing our community as a potential source of help even if you chose not to identify with it per se, since 1) we have members in three-person relationships and people who practice polyfidelity, and 2) you say it's helped so much already.

I do have to ask -- why do you consider sexual exclusivity such an important condition for your new partner when you have two examples of marriages -- yours and that of your friends -- that have functioned without it for so long with no diminishing of love or commitment? It puzzles me.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:30 AM
Times2 Times2 is offline
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I suppose that's just where we are right now. You're right, it has worked for us ten years and for them almost 19. There has been no interference with the loving devoted relationship between the married couples. But, again, they are devoted to each other and we are devoted to each but separate as couples and we are at the point that we are just ready to add another spouse. We love J and B but they aren't fullfilling the role we need filled now. They completely understand that this is where we are in our lives and our marriage and that they can't be what we really want, another wife, yes, I believe, a second wife....a sister wife without the religion and perhaps with intimate sexual contact for all if that happens to be the way it works out.

I can see why some might think we became in the post, 'less open' but this was never about sexual freedom. It's always been the need to.invite another spouse into the marriage we already have. I suppose, just as a polygamist man would meet, court, then introduce the potential to the first and second wives for their approval...I won't make a direct example of any particular religion in a negative light, but you understand. The difference is, there is only me, no second, no religion, and we will meet her together, court, see if the love is there and then make the same comittments to her as we did to each other.
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