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  #1  
Old 06-23-2011, 04:03 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Default Cheating, lying, excuses, and getting away with stuff

Sorry if this shifts the topic of the thread too much but I was wondering what people thought about cheating when people are so good at lying and covering their tracks (or you're so bad at espionage) that they never get caught or confess. I have the idea that this may happen a lot more than people think but it also seems like paranoia to think that. Considering that monogamy is so strictly expected in mainstream culture, it just makes sense to me that people naturally develop strategies for cheating and getting away with it. Or do most people just learn to control themselves and get used to monogamy? How would you know, really?
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:45 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
Sorry if this shifts the topic of the thread too much but I was wondering what people thought about cheating when people are so good at lying and covering their tracks (or you're so bad at espionage) that they never get caught or confess. I have the idea that this may happen a lot more than people think but it also seems like paranoia to think that. Considering that monogamy is so strictly expected in mainstream culture, it just makes sense to me that people naturally develop strategies for cheating and getting away with it. Or do most people just learn to control themselves and get used to monogamy? How would you know, really?
I would hazard a guess that there are a lot more affairs on the go then we think. People can get very good at them - I was very adept at keeping it a secret. Fake Hotmail accounts, great work cover up stories for being late. You name it, I had it down. The thing was that I became so unhealthy in my relationship that I was looking for a way to get caught doing anything that would promote change I was too cowardly to appraoch head on.

Some people are actually monogamous so there is no need to "control" themsleves. Others are very good at being in control of themselves and simply ignore feelings for people outside there relationship. Discipline is learned and can be done around anything; food, sex and how we express love.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:18 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Some people are actually monogamous so there is no need to "control" themsleves. Others are very good at being in control of themselves and simply ignore feelings for people outside there relationship. Discipline is learned and can be done around anything; food, sex and how we express love.
I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous. If they were, how could they break up from one person and start a relationship with someone new? I have heard many people say that when they are in a relationship they're just not interested in anyone else, which I can understand, but that doesn't mean the potential for attraction isn't there. Certainly you can love your partner so much that you wouldn't want to risk losing them by falling for someone else, but that doesn't mean that you're not susceptible to temptation (hence the prayer, "lead us not into temptation"). I think some people are just in denial that they're susceptible to temptation, since everyone is ultimately. What you do with the feelings is another story.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:36 PM
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I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous. If they were, how could they break up from one person and start a relationship with someone new? I have heard many people say that when they are in a relationship they're just not interested in anyone else, which I can understand, but that doesn't mean the potential for attraction isn't there. Certainly you can love your partner so much that you wouldn't want to risk losing them by falling for someone else, but that doesn't mean that you're not susceptible to temptation (hence the prayer, "lead us not into temptation"). I think some people are just in denial that they're susceptible to temptation, since everyone is ultimately. What you do with the feelings is another story.
Depends on how you define monogamy. I define it simply as having a singular intimate/romantic connection at a time. Yes people break up but that happens for many reasons. Sometimes they form a new connection..I did that when I was married. Here is the thing though. When I formed that new connection, I was not connected to anyone at that time. I was still married but I had lost my intimate connection. There was no overlap of romantic love.
In order for me to form a new connection I must first lose any existing one or not have one to begin with. In that sense I claim 100% monogamy. Could someone sweep me off my feet with a new connection? Not unless I have a weak one with my current partner. That is why it is so important to check in with myself. If I fail to realise my connection is lost (which happened in the past with my ex) there is an opportunity for another to form. I'm not poly, I don't have multiple intimate/romantic relationships. One person gets all of me in that sense.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:01 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Depends on how you define monogamy. I define it simply as having a singular intimate/romantic connection at a time. Yes people break up but that happens for many reasons. Sometimes they form a new connection..I did that when I was married. Here is the thing though. When I formed that new connection, I was not connected to anyone at that time. I was still married but I had lost my intimate connection. There was no overlap of romantic love.
In order for me to form a new connection I must first lose any existing one or not have one to begin with. In that sense I claim 100% monogamy. Could someone sweep me off my feet with a new connection? Not unless I have a weak one with my current partner. That is why it is so important to check in with myself. If I fail to realise my connection is lost (which happened in the past with my ex) there is an opportunity for another to form. I'm not poly, I don't have multiple intimate/romantic relationships. One person gets all of me in that sense.
Ok, so you do see a situation where a couple has lost romantic intensity but are still committed to staying together and making it work as a monogamist's opportunity to shift focus to a new love interest? I would still call that polyamory because if you have strong feelings of wanting to stay committed to your current partner, even if the spark is missing (temporarily or permanently), then that also involves love. Maybe what you mean to say is that you can't focus on feeling in love with more than one person at a time. But surely you could feel butterflies on a date one day and have that feeling subside when the person doesn't return your messages and then meet someone new that gave you similar feelings again? After going through this kind of thing for a while, you could easily bounce from one love-interest to another - assuming you didn't have any faith in the previous one to stick around for another date. I actually find this a little sad to talk about because it sounds like an abundance of love while really it is a lack of relational continuity.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:20 PM
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Maybe what you mean to say is that you can't focus on feeling in love with more than one person at a time. But surely you could feel butterflies on a date one day and have that feeling subside when the person doesn't return your messages and then meet someone new that gave you similar feelings again? After going through this kind of thing for a while, you could easily bounce from one love-interest to another - assuming you didn't have any faith in the previous one to stick around for another date. .
I just don't feel initmate/romantic love for more than one person at a time period. There are lulls and temporary disconnects and those can be concerning.
As far as butterflies go, of course I could feel those if I wasn't connected to someone and was dating again (I fucking hate dating).

I have never bounced from one love interest to another. I have been in love four times in forty years. I have however used people for sex more times than that. They weren't getting love..they were getting me off.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:04 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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I have a hard time believing anyone is 100% monogamous.
I've met two folks who married their childhood sweetheart, that person died years later, and these folk never had another romance until they died. I can attest to the existence of those two--and I may have met others without knowing it.

I was in my early 20s when I met the first one. I even asked him about whether he had any interest in another woman. He reported that he never had and even then, with his wife gone some 15 years, he just didn't find any other woman interesting.

There was nothing obvious about the histories of these two people, either. I imagine you've met folks who are strictly monogamous and simply have no idea as to whether they are or not. Just because you can't conceive of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:48 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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There was nothing obvious about the histories of these two people, either. I imagine you've met folks who are strictly monogamous and simply have no idea as to whether they are or not. Just because you can't conceive of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I can conceive of it, but I want to understand it on a deeper level. I think I can safely assume that all human bodies work in the same basic ways. So if someone is not attractive to anyone besides their partner, the question is what do they do with the information about another person that is potentially appealing to them.
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Old 06-26-2011, 01:51 AM
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This is a great conversation : )

I find all of this so interesting to read.

I have a very similar conversation with my friends and my family quite frequently. I don't know anyone who has been in a long term mono relationship which I am defining as (10+ years) that hasn't cheated, or been cheated on. I am sure there are so many reasons why this happens. Most of the time I don't think that it's because the "cheater" is not in love with the other person. I personally just don't think mono is a realistic expectation, and when expectations are unrealistic someone is bound to disapoint. It's sad to me. I have seen a lot of things end based on this and have always wondered what really made it end, the sleeping with and or loving someone else, or the fact that there was dishonesty, could be both to I guess.

The weird thing in all this though is that I would define myself as mono, and define my partner as poly. Intellectually I understand her, I understand how she can love and be intimate with multiple partners, that to me intellectually seems more natural than mono. Her ability to love like that is actually one of the things that I love so much about her.

Except for me I just can't, it doesn't happen like that for me. I try and come up with reasons why, but there are no logical ones. I wasn't raised to believe that you can only be in love with one person at one time. I don't know if unconciously I turn off feelings or emotions. I have friends who I connect with emotionally, but I have no feelings of intamacy for. Maybe its genetic, maybe its conditioning, maybe it's just me, but despite all that intellect would tell me I am just mono : ) . Much like I am gay, I have tried to fight that, I have tried to pretend that wasn't how I was feeling, but at the end of the day it is what it is, and I am happy with it.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:51 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
I can conceive of it, but I want to understand it on a deeper level. I think I can safely assume that all human bodies work in the same basic ways. So if someone is not attractive to anyone besides their partner, the question is what do they do with the information about another person that is potentially appealing to them.
I think there is more variety in people than you think. Some people are straight, some people are gay. Then, you might say, the two are still the same in that they're attracted to one sex and not the other. Oh, yes, but there is also bisexuality and pansexuality.

But all these people are attracted to something, right? Well, there is asexuality. But asexuals are still romantically attracted to people, right? Well, not aromantic ones (not that you need to be asexual to be aromantic, either, by the way. There are even cases of people whose sexual attraction and romantic attraction are opposite, for instance only attracted to males but only fall in love with females).

We now know of all these variations. Why not others? Monogamy vs non-monogamy, and within each, subcategories. In monogamy, lifelong monogamy, either romantic (one love ever) or sexual (one sexual attraction ever) or serial monogamy (one person at a time, but more than one over a lifetime, after one another).
Within non-monogamy, you have sexual non-monogamies, romantic non-monogamies, and some that are both.

People obviously do NOT all work the same way. Emotionally we're different from one another. Hormonally we're different from one another. The more you try to find something common to everyone, the more you find exceptions to that.

Lifelong monogamy is certainly not the rule. Even when divorce didn't happen, for instance, people would remarry after the death of a spouse and it was perfectly accepted that they might love the new person.
Although some people do struggle with the concept that it's alright to be in love again when the person you love died, as opposed to the relationship ending in a different one. I don't mean that these people are lifelong monoamorous, I mean that they fall in love again, and feel that it's "wrong" because if their spouse hadn't died, they'd still be there.

Anyway, I'm starting to go off on a rant. My point is that it's often easy to think that everyone works the way you do. I've seen people who claim that everyone is bisexual, just to various degrees, but some people are actually completely one way or the other (and of course asexuals aren't bisexual either). Similarly, some poly people like to claim that poly is the natural state and conventions are the only reason some people are mono.
It's tempting to think that because you had such a revelation (OMG! Poly exists! It all makes so much sense now!) you should share it with everyone because surely it will change their lives too. But no, some people ARE monogamous, lifelong or not. When something seems so obvious about yourself, it's tempting to think it's the way everyone works, but you need to really trust others who tell you they're different, and not assume they're lying or mistaken.

There is a lot of variety in this world, even just about romantic and sexual relations to others.
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