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Old 10-25-2009, 04:45 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Default Relationship structures, triads, unicorns and all that

So on Violet's thread I started talking a bit about how I've seen many poly-fi triads break down. In my post I was talking about how many times, being attached to only ONE relationship formation can sometimes limit it's ability to succeed. I went on to talk about something I've often seen in poly-fi triads.

I'm going to quote what I said in that post:

Quote:
(this next bit might come off as an indictment against all poly-fi triads or couples seeking poly-fi triads. As with most everything in life, I know that this does not apply to ALL couples or ALL triads. I acknowledge that poly-fi triads are something that can be successful and couples can bring in a third for lots of long term happiness. I'm sure there will be couples who read this who think "Oh, that's not how it is with US" Fair enough. It may not apply to you. But I'm also willing to be that there will be a fair number of couples who think it doesn't apply to them when it does)


Honestly, when I see a couple that's new to poly and seeking a third to "complete them" or to "be an equal partner" I see a couple that feels the need to control the other love that might enter into their partner's life. It's like they're saying, "Sure, my partner can fall in love with someone else, but ONLY if I am explicitly involved so that I may have control over my partner's love and so that love will always have something to do with me too, no matter what." Now, I know this isn't always true for every couple, but I do believe it to be true for many, if not most couples that are seeking this dynamic. One need only to see the vast number of unicorns who have been burned by such situations to have an inkling that perhaps this isn't the best way to go about things. We've all heard it before and every couple seems to say the same thing. "we want you to be an equal partner in our relationship", "we just have so much love to give, we have to share it with someone else". Etc, etc. Most of them end the same way- the unicorn is cast off with burn scars and everyone is off licking their wounds. And I've yet to meet a single poly bi female who's been through this (and I've personally known quite a few) who gets up after the experience and says "Wow, I want to try that again!". This is why unicorns are so rare.
Now, again, I want to stress that I don't believe that poly-fi triads are all doomed or that they can't be wonderful fulfilling relationships for everyone involved. I do know a couple of triads that are lovely and amazing in how they carry out their relationship. But I have to admit I do a tiny little facepalm to myself every time I hear about a couple that just decided to become poly and are now looking for that third to "complete them".

I think many times, people (mono, poly and everything in between) become very invested in specific relationship outcomes. I certainly know I've done this before. But the trouble is whenever we throw our energy into building a specific relationship structure, it puts undue pressure on the relationship. It constricts the natural ways a relationship may want to develop. This particularly happens with newly formed poly-fi triads. So much pressure gets put on the relationship to be this wonderful equal partnership of three people that when something indicates that maybe that's not right for everyone, it explodes into a mess of hurt feelings and loneliness. There are other ways for relationships to succeed. Maybe the closed triad should evolve into a V of some sort, or maybe the triad should remain a triad but opening up to each member having other partners, or maybe the third needs to let go of the pressure of being equal and relax into some kind of secondary relationship...who knows? There are all sorts of ways to approach things. But if it becomes an "all or nothing" scenario, it automatically dis-allows most other outcomes that may indeed be the solution, thus creating a much larger possibility of failure.

I also think there is another piece to this. As I mentioned in the other post, I've known quite a few couples who started off in their poly lives looking for the closed poly-fi triad. Of the couples that I know personally, they are all either monogamous or open and dating separately now. The only two stable triads I know were among people who had been poly for quite some time and were already openly dating others before deciding to close their triads and be fidelitous.

I think couples who are new to opening up their relationships see the closed triad as the most secure way to open up. It's a way people can hang onto their partners and still feel a certain amount of control over their partner's love for another person. Ironically, I think it can sometimes be the most insecure way to open up as it seems to be pre-assigning a structure designed to accommodate insecurity.

I generally feel that if people try to assuage their insecurity by assigning rules and structures around them, generally it does nothing to get rid of them, but rather enables them to remain. Or as Franklin of Xeromag fame will often say- if your relationship is healthy and good, you won't need all those rules and boundaries. If your relationship is not healthy and good, extra rules and boundaries won't save it. That's not to say that some rules aren't good. We all need them for certain things. But generally, I have to wonder when couples say they're new to poly and want a third, why do they want that particular thing? Is it because it genuinely feels like the right thing or is it a way to try to get around insecurity about opening up the relationship?

Again, I know that this doesn't apply to all couples who are seeking thirds but I have seen enough of a pattern to see that it probably applies to many, even if they think it doesn't apply to them. I don't think it's inherently wrong to seek or want a closed triad like that. I'm just wondering if all are going about it for healthy reasons.

(ducking for cover now!)

Last edited by Ceoli; 10-25-2009 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:49 AM
NightDragon NightDragon is offline
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First let me say "Thank you"!!

Next I will say, our relationship is not even a triad relationship. It is a V and I feel that a lot of the aspects you're saying apply for us. Or more specificly me.

I am having a huge issue with Dragonfly falling "IN" love with DragonBorn in less then 2 months since the start of this relationship. There are several reasons for that which I'm not sure would be ok to share or even if I'm comfortable with sharing them yet to all. It has brought out trust issues that I'm having. Fear for loosing the woman I have come to love above all else. And more. Just a lot of negative feelings and emotions.

Thanks to several of you here that have said to not just myself but to a lot of others, that it is ok to feel and have these emotions. I have slowly started to accept that instead of beating the shit out of myself for having these feelings. Thinking I was wrong to feel this way.

Now the problem I am having is trying to find a way for this to work, that doesn't manipulate how they feel about each other. I will be honest, if I had a magic wand... I would not want DF to be "IN" love with DB. But I know that she does. So because she does I don't want to change that. Now also let me say that surprisingly, I don't have any issues with DB being "IN" love with DF. I am also having amazingly HUGE issues with their alone time. And OMG I thank them so much for understanding and saying that they are ok with only spending time together when it's all of us. I feel bad, because I know that they want their alone time just the two of them. But for right now, I am not handling well at all. I get to caught up in my head, wondering what they're doing, what's being said, etc... I'm get afraid wondering when I come home is all my stuff going to be outside with a note saying I'm not wanted anymore. Yeah, crazy I know. But from what I'm learning fear is rarely based off reality.

I just wanted to add this, and I'm sure I will add more later, but I'm kinda on a deadline, and have the "Dragon" family as we've been called are getting to meet HMA and Vi for a late dinner. Hopefully both families can become close and be there for each other with helping hands in times like these. :-)
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:01 AM
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aussielover aussielover is offline
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This thread wasn't quite what I was expecting, so not sure what to add here. Especially as our relationship does not fit into the catagory of the primaries 'opening their relationship' to find me.
At this point I really don't have much to add here, but possibly if things take a different turn I may.
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:04 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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AL, it sounds like you have some stuff to say anyway! Start a thread
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:08 AM
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lol I'm not sure what to say.
I'm quite an introvert and usually don't speak up without being asked (downside, especially when in a poly relationship... I'm working on that) or in response to something else. I wouldn't know where to start.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:13 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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I think this is fantastic, and don't know why you would "duck for cover" Ceoli. Frankly, it's kind of what we've come to conclusion-wise after all the wiggling around, lol. When everyone worries about titles and labels and position, things are forced to happen or not happen other than how they might have on their own. Let the relationship define itself; deal with the issues as they arise, follow it down the rabbit hole.

Nice to meet you guys tonight ND! I hope we can do it again sometime! Anne gets back Monday, so either then (I seem to recall Mondays being good) or next weekend and we'll all be there.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:57 AM
heartbt heartbt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussielover View Post
lol I'm not sure what to say.
I'm quite an introvert and usually don't speak up without being asked (downside, especially when in a poly relationship... I'm working on that) or in response to something else. I wouldn't know where to start.
Kinda new around here, but I would have to say when Aussie gets started She (sorry :| )finishes beautifully. Well said.

For my $.02 Structure is fine, defining the relationship has many merits, guidelines can be a source of strength for relationships BUT rigid anything is likely going to hurt someone, if not everyone. Relationships are dynamic and always moving with the emotions and day to day ebb and flow of life. Rigidity will either be broken down, or remain standing with nothing left.

</end hippy talk>

Last edited by heartbt; 10-28-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2011, 03:03 PM
TaureanBullPS TaureanBullPS is offline
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Default Struggling with which way to turn myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightDragon View Post
First let me say "Thank you"!!

Next I will say, our relationship is not even a triad relationship. It is a V and I feel that a lot of the aspects you're saying apply for us. Or more specificly me.

I am having a huge issue with Dragonfly falling "IN" love with DragonBorn in less then 2 months since the start of this relationship. There are several reasons for that which I'm not sure would be ok to share or even if I'm comfortable with sharing them yet to all. It has brought out trust issues that I'm having. Fear for loosing the woman I have come to love above all else. And more. Just a lot of negative feelings and emotions.

Thanks to several of you here that have said to not just myself but to a lot of others, that it is ok to feel and have these emotions. I have slowly started to accept that instead of beating the shit out of myself for having these feelings. Thinking I was wrong to feel this way.

Now the problem I am having is trying to find a way for this to work, that doesn't manipulate how they feel about each other. I will be honest, if I had a magic wand... I would not want DF to be "IN" love with DB. But I know that she does. So because she does I don't want to change that. Now also let me say that surprisingly, I don't have any issues with DB being "IN" love with DF. I am also having amazingly HUGE issues with their alone time. And OMG I thank them so much for understanding and saying that they are ok with only spending time together when it's all of us. I feel bad, because I know that they want their alone time just the two of them. But for right now, I am not handling well at all. I get to caught up in my head, wondering what they're doing, what's being said, etc... I'm get afraid wondering when I come home is all my stuff going to be outside with a note saying I'm not wanted anymore. Yeah, crazy I know. But from what I'm learning fear is rarely based off reality.

I just wanted to add this, and I'm sure I will add more later, but I'm kinda on a deadline, and have the "Dragon" family as we've been called are getting to meet HMA and Vi for a late dinner. Hopefully both families can become close and be there for each other with helping hands in times like these. :-)
This mirrors to a T what I feel right now.
I am told that I am the only one who would break up my relationship with person A of A and B. But after a recent event and some conversations, I have gone back to feeling like person C verses person B on the side.
That being my big issue, is that I feel I am ALWAYS going to be that person on the side. I dont know how to talk with Person A regarding what I need him and He along with person B to do, in order to make things work for all.

I dont want person A and B to break up, I just dont want to feel like a Third wheel or " The other Boyfriend "

I love both of them, but am only in intimate interactions with person A. Person B is like a carbon copy of me in so many ways.

I need a friend right now, who understands and has gotten through this part of this type relationship..... OR help sorting out if I can even do this ?

Feeling Confused now.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:29 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quoting myself from another thread... a little obnoxious, but I wanted to explore this further and was getting way off topic:

"I truly believe that humans just act differently in dyad situations, in ways that are both revealing and bonding."

My point with this statement was, at heart, to reinforce the old idea that a triad is not one relationship of three people but rather four relationships -- A&B, B&C, A&C and A&B&C. To focus on only the last one of the four is, to my mind, to misunderstand how human relationships work.

Thoughts?

Editing in a caveat: I absolutely do not mean to imply that real and significant intimacy and bonding can't occur when all three people in a given three-person relationship are present, both on the dyad level and the triad level. I've very much seen that that isn't true. Rather, I think it's important to recognize that the dyad pairs within the triad do exist, and to give them their own space to flourish from time to time.
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 11-28-2011 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:34 PM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
But the trouble is whenever we throw our energy into building a specific relationship structure, it puts undue pressure on the relationship. It constricts the natural ways a relationship may want to develop.
<snip>
... if it becomes an "all or nothing" scenario, it automatically dis-allows most other outcomes that may indeed be the solution, thus creating a much larger possibility of failure.
This is awesome stuff Ceoli. I need to start saving nuggets like this for future reference...which gives me an idea....mwahahaa!

Cheers.
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