Poly versus Sluttiness

perhaps it would help for me to add that although i love him, i have never ever been "in love" with him. or would that just confuse things ever more?!?

x
 
Well. :)

I honestly don't know what to say because the relationship you described is in no way one I'd call a "fuckbuddy". What you described is a loving, intimate relationship that includes sex - with a person I'd consider a lover.

his thoughtfulness and attentiveness, his willingness to learn how to please me and the importance he placed on my pleasure as well as his.

but also his sensitivity when i wasn't sure how sexual i could be that day, or needed to limit our activities in one way or another, the fact he never judged me for that or for the sexual fantasies i shared with him, whether or not he shared those fantasies/was turned on or off by them/wanted to put them into action.

then there were times when he would let me know before he arrived that he wasn't entirely sure if he could have sex that day but still wanted to come over. for example the day after his much-beloved dog died. that day we did actually have sex (we actually always did, in some form!) but it was a much more intimate kind of sex than was normal for us, and probably only happened because we removed the pressure to do so from the situation.

in a million little ways, i got to know him over the five years we spent in a sexual relationship, from small comments and big ones, from the giggles at the fanny farts, and the willingness to try new things, and to admit to fears he felt about certain sexual activities as well his attempts to overcome those fears.

communication and inevitably (in my experience) leads to gaining some sense of who that person is and what their values are. when the activity is as intimate as sex i have found that only heightened.

i love him for who he is and for what he has taught me - including, but not only, that a sexual relationship has a value in and of itself. i love him because i feel he has a good sense of who i am, accepts and understands me, with relatively few words having passed between us.

however i do care deeply for him, wish him much happiness, and have learnt much from him. we have a connection, which i know he feels too, not despite but in fact because of the nature of our relationship over the years.


All of those things are FAR more (by my definition) than a fuckbuddy. I'm actually really confused why you don't want to consider this relationship to be one of lovers. I am now wondering what you'd consider a "lover" to be ... ? :)

I think I kind of understand where our disconnect is, but I'm still just confused about what relationship is what to you?
 
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@ quila - perhaps this is a difference in language usage between the UK and the US. here we use the phrase "fuck buddy" to mean a buddy who we fuck (aka have sex) with.

its a specific kind of friendship because the main or often only activity we would do with our fuck-buddy is have sex. whereas a friend in the general sense would mean someone we hang out and take part in various activities with. therefore a friend with benefits would be someone we have sex with but also hang out with as friends. a fuck buddy we mainly just have sex with, regardless of whether we feel love for them or not.

i appreciate this is a predominately US forum and will try to understand better the way words are used in the US from now on rather than sticking to UK meanings and uses, in the hope i will experience and create less confusion. if i stick around, which i am not sure about right now, but that's probably not of much interest to anyone except me ;) which is fine!

Knowing that you're from the UK actually goes a long way towards explaining why you would have such a different perception of the term than I'm used to... In any country, "fuck buddy" is slang, and it's no secret that the different continents (and even different states within the US) have very different slang terms AND different definitions for some of the same terms. In that case, it doesn't become a "you vs us" where you're individually deciding to use a different definition from "the rest of us"... it's a cultural difference, which "the rest of us" should be open-minded enough to accept once establishing that's what it is.

I also have to agree that I've always thought there was something missing from "friends with benefits," because it implies other friendships don't have benefits.

I also hope you stick around. I saw everyone ganging up on you, and I started writing my reply to clarify what I'd said, and my husband leaned over and read everyone else's reply and told me it sounded like I didn't need to bother responding because you were full of it and everyone had already pointed that out. But I decided to ignore him, and clarify my statements. I'm glad I did, because you were patient enough to read it and give me a second chance.

perhaps it would help for me to add that although i love him, i have never ever been "in love" with him. or would that just confuse things ever more?!?

I think that makes absolutely perfect sense. I've had partners whom I loved but was not in love with.
 
Crisare, I'm wondering...why do you feel the need to rename or redefine dakid's relationship to better suit your terms? She's described very clearly what the relationship is to her and the name that she gives it. If you understand her relationship now, why do you need to label it differently than she does. Will that change your understanding?

There's nothing just plain basic communication can't address when talking about how different people name things differently. That does not require having universal definitions.
 
Knowing that you're from the UK actually goes a long way towards explaining why you would have such a different perception of the term than I'm used to...

Having lived in both the UK and the US, I can say that the difference in slang is part of it. There are also differing attitudes towards sexuality and sexual expression. In general, America tends to be pretty conservative about the role of sex in relationships and between people. This is far less so in the UK and other European countries. Basically, I've found that people are far more open to a far more diverse view of what constitutes a loving relationship than I've noticed here in the US.
 
Crisare, I'm wondering...why do you feel the need to rename or redefine dakid's relationship to better suit your terms? She's described very clearly what the relationship is to her and the name that she gives it. If you understand her relationship now, why do you need to label it differently than she does. Will that change your understanding?

If language is not precise, then people cannot communicate - which is exactly what has happened here.

I feel that I better understand dakid now that she has explained her definition of "fuckbuddy". Now I am curious about why she does not use the word lover to define that relationship ... and what type of relationship she would consider to be that of a lover. In learning that I will understand her point of view further.

So my question back to you is .. why do you feel the need to question my desire to understand or to come to a common understanding?
 
If language is not precise, then people cannot communicate - which is exactly what has happened here.

I feel that I better understand dakid now that she has explained her definition of "fuckbuddy". Now I am curious about why she does not use the word lover to define that relationship ... and what type of relationship she would consider to be that of a lover. In learning that I will understand her point of view further.

So my question back to you is .. why do you feel the need to question my desire to understand or to come to a common understanding?

I'm not questioning your desire to understand. I'm questioning your desire to make someone else use the same term you use in order to understand. You now better understand her relationship after she explained it. She is still going to use the word "fuckbuddy" to define it. Which better helps you to understand? The term used or the explanation of the term?

For me, precise communication lies in engaging in the explanation, not in asking everyone to conform to the same assumptions or contexts to fit a word. There are cultural contexts underneath words that are not shared. This is true for pretty much any aspect of life we choose to define. I simply don't think the solution is to require everyone to conform to my context of a particular term when I can just as easily understand by asking them to explain what they mean by it. In fact, I would go so far to say as whatever chosen term is used won't be very precise because everyone carries their own assumptions to any particular term. Who decides which assumptions should be dropped and which ones should be kept?

None of that matters if the people involved just apply some basic communication skills.
 
I'm questioning your desire to make someone else use the same term you use in order to understand. .
And where did I say she had to use the same term?

What I said was that *I* would consider the relationship she described to be that of a lover. I then asked her to explain what she considers a "lover" if this isn't it.

I'm getting really frustrated with you telling me what I can and can't ask and what I can and can't say, Ceoli. This isn't the first time you've done it to me.
 
And where did I say she had to use the same term?

What I said was that *I* would consider the relationship she described to be that of a lover. I then asked her to explain what she considers a "lover" if this isn't it.

I'm getting really frustrated with you telling me what I can and can't ask and what I can and can't say, Ceoli. This isn't the first time you've done it to me.

Crisare, why is it crucial to understand why dakid doesn't use the word lover and why she chooses to use the term she put forward of fuckbuddy after having explained it's meaning to her?

~Raven~
 
You know what .. nevermind. It's not worth it. Sorry. Moving on.

Dakid, I wish you the best.
 
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Raven - in the previous exchange, you were right to react to that statement. I, too, was propagating the "multiple monogamy" version of poly, even to defend that against others who talked about the term applying to swinging and other forms of ope relationships.

In many talks with many people here and at home, I have discarded that POV as pointless, divisive, and not even applicable to my own situation. I was also absent from these boards for a while. WHen I came back, I was astonished at the way some posts here attacked different POV's, and when I began to post again those 'attacks' quickly turned to me and my new POV as well.

No, they're not always direct, personal, attacks (though some are). But when people post that your relationship does't qualify as poly, or that certain behaviours 'don't count' and 'aren't poly' on a board where people are looking for support in poly relationships, it's going to be taken harshly whether or not it was intended as such.

To answer all of the above - because the terminilogy is different to different people, lol. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Not hard to grasp. The word 'fuck' is't even derogatoryu or offensive to a lot of people anymore!
 
And where did I say she had to use the same term?

What I said was that *I* would consider the relationship she described to be that of a lover. I then asked her to explain what she considers a "lover" if this isn't it.

After she clearly explained what the term means to her, you have continued to address the fact that she's using a different word than you would. That would suggest that you're more concerned about the word she uses than the meaning behind the word. I could be wrong.

I'm getting really frustrated with you telling me what I can and can't ask and what I can and can't say, Ceoli. This isn't the first time you've done it to me.

Please feel free to provide examples of when I've told you what you can or can't ask or say and I'd be happy to address it and/or clarify.
 
crisare - i would tend to call a lover someone that i go on dates with and hang out with at times other then just when we are having sex.

however, having thought about it a bit since reading your question i am now thinking that actually a fuck-buddy probably is a form of lover, as is a partner. fuck-buddy describes a very specific type of lover though, someone i only spend time with having sex not generally hanging out with or dating.

i tend not to call a fuck-buddy a lover because it is too vague and as i say it tends (over here in the UK) to be understood as someone you are dating etc.

my perception on these boards (correct me if i'm wrong people!) is that lover tends to be used to mean at least someone you may fall in love with if not someone you are in love with already. i always knew i was never likely to fall in love with guy, for reasons i am reluctant to go into here, and i certainly never have done. but as i have described i do care about him and i personally call that love. "in love" for me is a more romantic, loving every part of them, kinda thing. whereas love is a very broad thing encompassing the love i have for my friends, sisters, dog, etc.

for me the best comparison really is the love i feel for my close friends, i would prefer to use a phrase that links him to them than to my lover-partners, with whom i am truly madly deeply in love in a quite different way.

that's just me, i have no need for others to replicate my way of thinking, only to respect our differences.

let me know if you need further clarification i am only too aware of the limitations of language, especially across cultures and nation-states.

i am curious now to ask you - would you feel there is a difference for you between a partner and a lover, as you use these words? if so what is that difference for you?

i think for me a partner is another form of lover, but again quite a specific kind, but i am curious to read your thoughts on it.

also i am quite curious about your thinking about fuck-buddies, and your own experiences.

how do you manage to have regular sex with somebody without developing any level of love for that person?

seeing them regularly, possibly talking with them about your sexual desires/boundaries, sharing time and touch with them, on a regular basis, but never feeling any love for them of any kind. at least that's the picture i am forming of fuck-buddies relationships for you, please do tell me if i am wrong. i ask not in judgement or as criticism but because for me that would be very difficult and so i am simply curious how it works.

x
 
Having lived in both the UK and the US, I can say that the difference in slang is part of it. There are also differing attitudes towards sexuality and sexual expression. In general, America tends to be pretty conservative about the role of sex in relationships and between people. This is far less so in the UK and other European countries. Basically, I've found that people are far more open to a far more diverse view of what constitutes a loving relationship than I've noticed here in the US.

i must add this is my experience too, of one of the many differences in culture (very very broadly speaking and with obvious exceptions) between the US and most of western europe.

x
 
crisare, i think what ceoli and myself have at times found challenging with some of your posts and the posts indeed of several others have appeared to discount views which are not immediately understood or which are different to yours (plural).

while it is fine by me if you (again plural) want to ask questions to aid your/our further understanding of each other, i would say that not enough care has been made at times to avoid that sounding like a negative judgement or even denial of our reality.

none of us is perfect and i have made mistakes too. however with some folks here i am at the moment lacking the faith that it is always a mistake. i am not saying this includes you necessarily, right now i am not entirely sure to be honest, but it does seem some folk on here are unwilling to accept and welcome into the community folk who have different/broader definitions of love than they.

there are undertones of "sex is bad unless its in a committed relationship and i don't want to be tainted by association with people who have sex outside of a longterm relationship which is leading some people to say that the only way to practise polyamory is their way - in exclusive and ongoing partnerships/relationships, which some might describe as multiple-monogamy or polyfidelity. i accept that as one way of practising polyamory but i do not accept it as the only way.

this denies the reality of some of us here such as me and ceoli (i think) and as such is a form of rudeness and is very divisive. whilst we can respect their way of life it does not always seem to work in the other direction and that is sad (and can be very hurtful).
 
Raven - in the previous exchange, you were right to react to that statement. I, too, was propagating the "multiple monogamy" version of poly, even to defend that against others who talked about the term applying to swinging and other forms of ope relationships.

In many talks with many people here and at home, I have discarded that POV as pointless, divisive, and not even applicable to my own situation. I was also absent from these boards for a while. WHen I came back, I was astonished at the way some posts here attacked different POV's, and when I began to post again those 'attacks' quickly turned to me and my new POV as well.

No, they're not always direct, personal, attacks (though some are). But when people post that your relationship does't qualify as poly, or that certain behaviours 'don't count' and 'aren't poly' on a board where people are looking for support in poly relationships, it's going to be taken harshly whether or not it was intended as such.

To answer all of the above - because the terminilogy is different to different people, lol. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Not hard to grasp. The word 'fuck' is't even derogatoryu or offensive to a lot of people anymore!

*hugs*

crisare, i think what ceoli and myself have at times found challenging with some of your posts and the posts indeed of several others have appeared to discount views which are not immediately understood or which are different to yours (plural).

while it is fine by me if you (again plural) want to ask questions to aid your/our further understanding of each other, i would say that not enough care has been made at times to avoid that sounding like a negative judgement or even denial of our reality.

none of us is perfect and i have made mistakes too. however with some folks here i am at the moment lacking the faith that it is always a mistake. i am not saying this includes you necessarily, right now i am not entirely sure to be honest, but it does seem some folk on here are unwilling to accept and welcome into the community folk who have different/broader definitions of love than they.

there are undertones of "sex is bad unless its in a committed relationship and i don't want to be tainted by association with people who have sex outside of a longterm relationship which is leading some people to say that the only way to practise polyamory is their way - in exclusive and ongoing partnerships/relationships, which some might describe as multiple-monogamy or polyfidelity. i accept that as one way of practising polyamory but i do not accept it as the only way.

this denies the reality of some of us here such as me and ceoli (i think) and as such is a form of rudeness and is very divisive. whilst we can respect their way of life it does not always seem to work in the other direction and that is sad (and can be very hurtful).

Very eloquently said and heartfelt. It covers many of my feelings on some of the interactions here and elsewhere within the poly community.

*hugs* I feel in quite the hugging mood. Hugs to dakid and HappiestManAlive. And Ceoli too *hugs huggly huggly hugs*

~Raven~
 
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hugs back at you raven, in fact i think this huggy mood is infectious because i too would like to send hugs out to HappiestManAlive, Ceoli, and the many other wonderful people out there, i hope you know who you are!

:D

xxx
 
I also hope you stick around. I saw everyone ganging up on you, and I started writing my reply to clarify what I'd said, and my husband leaned over and read everyone else's reply and told me it sounded like I didn't need to bother responding because you were full of it and everyone had already pointed that out. But I decided to ignore him, and clarify my statements. I'm glad I did, because you were patient enough to read it and give me a second chance.

i am glad you did too, quila, and send a hug your way (hope that's ok!)

x
 
I also have to agree that I've always thought there was something missing from "friends with benefits," because it implies other friendships don't have benefits.

I am not sure I like the term "friends with benefits" for this reason also. I am not so sure having sex with friends is always a benefit actually. Sometimes it hinders friendship I would think. I prefer the term "intimate friends" when referring to friends I have sex with as a part of our friendship. Somehow it seems to add more respect for the connection that sex gives a relationship. "Fuck buddy" for me is something I have done while drunk with someone and had no connection to myself or the person. Such as when I was swinging (although I know some actually have friendship relationships with those they swing with, I never did, hence my belief here for myself). Anyone I have slept with otherwise I know intimate things about in some way, from their body or how they respond sexually. That to me denotes an intimacy that is not a "benefit" because they are not "giving" it to me but sharing and I with them.

Maybe "intimate friend" is just a bit deeper than "fuck buddy." for some it may be. I will have to think more about what I think on this... I think for now I see the terms in order of no connection to friendly connection as such; "fuck buddy," "friends with benefits" and then "intimate friends."



Actually, it seems to me that I have a scale from "fuck buddy" to the relationship depth I have with my husband and boyfriend. Each time I go up that scale with someone the other is not left behind but they all become a part of the relationship. Once a "fuck buddy" for me turns into a "friend with benefits" the latter is not lost kind of thing. I have just gained more depth I think. For me and my two men we do all of the above it seems, just depending on the mood or quality of intimacy we wanting to engage in.
 
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Anyone I have slept with otherwise I know intimate things about in some way, from their body or how they respond sexually. That to me denotes an intimacy that is not a "benefit" because they are not "giving" it to me but sharing and I with them

i couldn't agree more redpepper.

x
 
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