'Complicated' is one way to put it.

He is well aware of any legal action he could take, but this could very well end up with what he doesn't want; his kids being without both parents in close proximity to them and on a daily basis.

It's truly a power and control situation, bordering on domestic abuse (minus the physical violence) in my opinion. But I do not even come close to blaming her fully for this. He has allowed much of this and so needs to own up to what he can/should try to do and remedy the situation.

It's a clusterf***. :(
 
Fucked is definitely what it is.

I know of someone here in the same boat. Actually I hear about it all the time. It ends in desperation and then cheating almost always.

The illusion that getting married, having babies, going into debt is what will bring a relationship some strength and togetherness is absurd and stupid. I get so frustrated with the laziness of some people and then the expectation that I am in some way am suppose to feel bad for them. There were signs, they didn't observe them. There were decisions made out of being too afraid to say "no, this isn't working." Yet the person blew them off and chose to ignire them because it was easier.

My frustration comes from all the hard work I have done in my own relationships and that I am expected to just let cheating pass and be sympathetic. It makes me just want to tell people to fuck off actually. I have little patience... ;) at least today. Sorry, its not helpful to you.
 
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Part 2, the present temptation.

(Trucker Pete, thanks for sharing the Dan Savage articles/opinions. Personally I think marriage is over-rated and a vestige of the patriarchy. Less and less people are getting married as a result of our changing culture.)

So, the current situation. A man (I'll call him X) on ok cupid messaged me last week. He actually messaged me several times before I had a chance to reply, saying he liked my attitude towards gender (as well as my eclectic tastes in general). I am genderqueer and pansexual. His profile said he was looking for friends and penpals, not sexual partners.

So, his deal: married for 12 years to a conservative, vanilla woman. X IDs as a cross-dresser, 55% male, 45% female. He has always felt he's needed to hide this from his wife and all areas of his life. He has a lot of shame around it. However, he needs to express it, and would cross dress when working from home, just enjoying his feminine side.

His wife and he never had much sex to begin with. And when they did, it was boring and bland. It seems plain intercourse was all she wanted. When he asked for a certain act once, she recoiled in disgust. She has also mocked him from time to time for his sensitive nature and his enjoyment of cooking and cleaning.

Late last year she found a couple pix he'd taken of himself in a skirt on his computer. All hell broke loose. He told me she actually thought he was going to murder him and their 2 sons, just because he's a transvestite (ever notice all the murderous trannies depicted on TV and in movies? She thought they were all that way!!)

So, right now, X had been in therapy since January this year. His therapist is educated on transgender issues. The wife refuses to learn more about his gender ID and transgender in general. They went to a marriage counselor a few times, but the counselor was equally ignorant around trans issues. So, now the wife has taken a "head in the sand" attitude and sex has also completely stopped. He hasn't even had a hug or kiss from her all year, and is dying inside from body hunger.

So, imagine his joy at meeting me! Not only fine with his gender ID, but even attracted to it. Also certain sex acts he'd love to experience, I am also into.

We havent met yet but have a date set up for next week, as friends. I told him I refuse to be a band-aid for his marriage, and he is fine with that... he knows he needs to have some deep talks about their issues with his wife and either split or get her to agree to an open relationship. I know in my heart she'd be better off without him, so she'd be free to find a "manly man" that she desires. She just wants him to go back to the way he used to present, but of course, the barn door is open, the horse is out, and there's no going back.

Of course, I do not yet know him well enough to know whether he feels strong enough to assert himself and have the hard talks. Being trans can and does have a bad impact on one's self esteem in our culture, making one very shy and self effacing.

I know I could offer B lots of sexual healing and affirmation. He brings out my nurturing side. We have other things in common besides gender issues, he's real easy to talk to and so far, I like him a lot... I long to give him hugs and cuddles at least, poor guy. (Did I mention he is quite cute? Well, he is!)

sigh... But I have firmed up my poly principles since I had the thing with J. I've told my gf about this (she's a transwoman) and she says she doesnt take such a hard line... I guess her thoughts are similar to Dan Savage's, altho she IDs as poly as well. She just doesnt want me to get burnt, have my feelings hurt, as I sometimes did, by the conflicted feelings of the previous married guy, J.

OK, you can take away my poly membership card now. Go ahead and tell me to fuck off, RP, I don't give a shit.

<flame retardant suit>
 
Thanks for sharing, Magdlyn. I would like so much to bring this man some joy as well, but not at the expense of my own happiness. Since the guilt is hanging so heavy with him and he seems hell bent on being miserable I am going to put the ball back in his court as he works out what he needs to work out with himself. If he doesn't get it worked out, then that's his problem. In the meantime I will continue to care very much for him because I just can't help it.
 
It looks like he's staying for the kids, because he wants to continue to co-parent with this woman. Except for co-parenting and finances, he is not married to her in any real sense (or at least that's what he's telling you).

I say go for it. Don't get caught.

It's not poly. But that doesn't mean it's wrong.
 
It looks like he's staying for the kids, because he wants to continue to co-parent with this woman. Except for co-parenting and finances, he is not married to her in any real sense (or at least that's what he's telling you).

I say go for it. Don't get caught.

It's not poly. But that doesn't mean it's wrong.

I agree on the ethical question, but like other posters have pointed out, that doesn't mean it's the right thing for the OP. If she really falls for this man, how hurtful might that be for her? She can never be out with him, lest his wife find out, she can never share in the special moments like holidays, never get to know his kids... hiding sucks. :(
 
You're right. Hiding really sucks. I will amend my statement: OP, if you're willing to put up with the inevitable heartbreak, go for it.
 
Force the issue, keep the kids despite how hard raising them alone can be...I'd say hes' hiding behind the argument that he wants them to have a mom and dad in there life to avoid the increased responsiblity...not much time to date when you are raising kids alone) and get on with his life with integrity and a new partner :)
 
I think a lot of times people find a lot of reasons not to make a change out of a basic sense of fear. Change is hard. Even when your current situation sucks ass, at least it's a KNOWN commodity. To break out on your own requires you to face the unknown... and a lot of people can't, won't, aren't able to do that.

And that's not to say I think he's "making excuses"... I'm sure those things are real concerns that need to be taken into consideration.

I also do think that you need to take all of this with a grain of salt. Like was mentioned above, one-sided stories are always just that-- and if you're hearing all of this from him and you don't even know her or have no other corroboration (friends, other people that know him and her), you really have no way of knowing how much of this is true, how much might be a fabrication and how much might be his perception of things. And our personal perceptions may be A truth of the situation, but not necessarily THE truth.
 
I think a lot of times people find a lot of reasons not to make a change out of a basic sense of fear. Change is hard. Even when your current situation sucks ass, at least it's a KNOWN commodity. To break out on your own requires you to face the unknown... and a lot of people can't, won't, aren't able to do that.

Yes. But it can be done. I did it. I spent 10 of the last years of my marriage with a passive aggressive guy who was willing and eager to have sex with me, but had consciously made the decision to stop telling me he loved me, stopped calling me honey, stop holding my hand when we walked around in public, stopped even kissing me! He also "went on strike" (his words) as far as housework, finances, yardwork or car maintenance. I was afraid to leave my gilded cage, give up the house I'd decorated and gardens I'd lovingly planted, give up my indoor/outdoor cat, shake up my (homeschooled) kid's lives, live in an apartment on whatever alimony I could get, etc. Finally I realized I'd rather be happy in my own little apartment on a limited income, than in that house... with him. And I am happy. So happy now.

Even though we've been together almost 3 years now, my gf tells me she loves me multiple times a day. When we cuddle on the couch in the evenings watching TV and I need to get up to go get a drink or pee, she tightens her legs around me so I can't get up for a minute, snuggles me, and then lets me up and says, "Hurry back." Plus she has compersion for me around any other people I am crushing on or dating! I feel blessed, I feel lucky, but I know it's not just luck, it's my own bravery and hard work that got me to this much more contented life. We are really helping each other grow, always moving forward, not just holding grudges over the past and longing for no change.

I guess I am writing this not so much for Iloveyoutwo, as for her bf or any lurkers here who are considering divorce.
 
Mags,

Oh, I completely know it can be done! :) I was in a similar position and I got out as well.

My point is, that not everybody is that strong. Or maybe has that much energy? Or they haven't gotten to the point where it's so bad they HAVE to do it. Or a million other things.

And the "reasons" for not leaving are in a way all just excuses not to have to take that step. If we pile up enough reasons we can't do it, we can stay, not have to change, feel the victim, justify our actions. :-/

He hasn't gotten to the point where he knows he has to leave. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but that's all on him. As an outside person, I'd stay the heck away from the whole situation because he needs to take the time and make an effort on his own behalf and the behalf of his kids right now, not self-soothe with sex from an outside partner so he doesn't have to think about or deal with it.

Just my opinion... :)
 
He hasn't gotten to the point where he knows he has to leave. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but that's all on him. As an outside person, I'd stay the heck away from the whole situation because he needs to take the time and make an effort on his own behalf and the behalf of his kids right now, not self-soothe with sex from an outside partner so he doesn't have to think about or deal with it.

Just my opinion... :)

We're all full of opinions!

Yes, on the one hand she should (and says she has) decided to step back. I did that with J as well. He wasn't going to leave his wife... he decided her health insurance was more important than his own happiness.

OTOH (there's always another hand), X went on okc just looking for friends who were cool with transgender. He didn't even expect to find a woman who could love a cross-dresser. He needs open-minded queer or queer-friendly friends, but a lover who would get turned on by his gender? That meets and exceeds his hope. I feel I've already triggered some growth and hope in him from just iming with him.

Will it be enough to give him the courage to make changes? Time will tell. Transpeople need a lot of support, I've had firsthand experience with that with miss pixi. I know what I'm doing. Even if he wants only to be able to "dress" at home in private, I can support him finding the self love to find a way to do that. Even if he just wants to come over to my place, put on his skirt and stockings and watch Project Runway with me (or miss pixi and me).

Although today I did mention how it would be so fun to invite him to dinner with us and our LGBT friends, or take him to queer pride type events, transhealth conferences, etc., where there is no photo taking allowed, and people can use "scene names" to protect their anonymity.

He's got a Master's degree in writing. Today I encouraged him to compose an email to his wife, to get the ball rolling. Might be easier and more productive than just conversing and getting yelled at and disrespected, told how disgusting he is. He feels like he is dying on the inside. He's not really living, just existing.
 
Mags,

I think that being the person that can normalize someone, and even show them that they are sexually attractive is amazing! :) He's lucky to have found you. And hope that there are people out there for whom this is no big deal is probably something that was really needed.
 
Something I have learned, thanks to my poly nature and being with someone who is also poly, is that there is always strength and energy. No one dies from having to make a change in their life... in fact the bar is set higher in terms of energy and strength by making change I find. I have more strength and energy than I ever thought possible because I have pushed myself for a life that is always better than what I had. Keeping in mind all those I effect is important, but the bottom line for me is that if I am not content with what I have created then that also effects everyone in my life.
 
My bf was my neighbor. I was friends with him and his wife. I saw firsthand how SHITTY she treated him. I tried and tried and tried to encourage her to be kind to him, to be forgiving, to be loving and tolerant and fucking CIVIL. She was filled with hatred towards him. I tried to help him come up with ways to soften her up -- give her flowers, say this, say that.... There was simply no hope. Once I finally saw there was no hope left, I stepped up and took care of the starving man! They had 4 kids and were financially strapped to the max. But he was so miserable, it was only a matter of time before he got the hell out.

She blames me for the break-up of their marriage. But I say, she should CREDIT me! She hated him!

I remember a stretch of time when I was nursing some resentments, being cold and distant to my husband. He said, "I NEED AFFECTION. I need love in my life. Do you WANT me to get a girlfriend??" (This was pre-poly, when I had NO idea whatsoever that that could actually be a possible solution, and even a good thing, haha!) I snapped out of my funk, and we became closer than we'd been in months.

I had a brief affair with a married man about 15 years ago. He said his marriage was "ok," but it was nothing like what we had. They completely separated and were planning a divorce, so he could be with me. He ended up going back to his wife, finally realizing how much she truly loved him (enough to let him go!) and how much he didn't want to lose her. It nearly fucking killed me, but I think the affair was the best thing that could have happened to them as a couple. They are still together and finally stopped taking each other for granted. (There's a lot to be said for marriages that are "ok.")

Sometimes cheating is justified. Sometimes it's the catalyst for change.

I'd be totally freaked out if my spouse had the power to run off to another country with my kids. So I can't blame your guy for trying to work around his situation.

Your husband sounds like a great guy. You both sound pretty cool to me. ;)
 
Thanks, Carma! My husband is the most awesome guy in my world, for sure! Thank you for your kind words. You know, I've been venting my frustrations regarding my bf to my husband and my sweet husband is the one encouraging me to be patient with the situation. I wish my bf could take all the gifts of love I have offered to him, but I will just try to be content with what he is able to take for now and hopefully some kind of good change will take place due to decisions he makes.
 
Well, iloveyou... sudden change in MY "relationship" (if you can even call it that) with my married man, X.

He couldn't talk to me all weekend, of course. He gets online at 9:01, immediately after getting to work, and IMs me.

Seems my input gave him so much courage and hope, he had an extra good therapy session on Friday and A Talk with his wife on Sunday. First real talk they've had since January.

He realizes he's been acting too much the victim, being too passive. It's time for him to tell her who he is, what he needs in a relationship, try and get her to understand it and maybe accept and (one hopes) celebrate it, instead of just wallowing in guilt and shame and self loathing and avoidance.

It was a difficult but good talk for them. He even ended up getting a hug at the end of it. He says they have a lot of good things they've built and it's time to see if he can be authentic, and get her on board and try to hold onto their relationship.

He didn't tell her he had an okc account or that he'd been talking to me.

His therapist said she didn't think he and I should meet. Of course, I am fine with just being friends and a support from the queer community, but he told me his lust for me is too great and he can't even risk meeting me. He's had too many sexual thoughts and feels he wouldn't be able to control himself.

But the worst part is, he told me he's not even going to chat with me anymore and just focus on his wife. I said, but you need queer friends. You are woefully uninformed about your own condition. How can you get her to understand when you don't even understand it all yourself? I could help with that.

But no. He doesn't even want to chat anymore. So I told him that hurt after all the long talks we've had. He said he was very sorry. I wished him luck and he said, You have my email. And he signed off.

sigh...
 
I have to say this is gnawing at me...

Everything you know about his relationship with his wife and his past with other women comes from him. I wouldn't trust so blindly that things are that bad with his wife or that he hasn't cheated before with other women (there's even a chance that he's currently cheating with other women at the same time).

The thing about cheating is that it's lying. Lying leads to people getting hurt, maybe it will be his wife, maybe it will be you, maybe it will be him. The longer you let this go on the more likely you are to be hurt. It's safer for you in the long run to just maintain this as a friendship until when (and if) he's able to be in an open and honest relationship with you.
 
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