Life is funny

arggh... still not satisfied with it...

M is absolutely confident that I am not leaving her, absolutely confident that I truly love her. It is a mutual feeling. I know this in our relationship. I know this when R is here.

M is comfortable in my presence, sitting on a barstool only in panties, grumpy and hating the bags under her eyes as she plucks hair from her chin.

M is uncomfortable being naked with R in dim light.

She loves R and wants to be as confident and comfortable with their love as she is with ours. She is scared shitless that she will screw it up.

Really I am supposed to envy where we were twelve years ago?
 
Yesterdays ramble about dealing with jealously frustrates me. I don't think I have answered the question at all. I find what we have wonderful and I want it. I will let it have to steep and see what words come to me. I will probably have to answer it with fiction, sometimes I work better that way expressing myself.

For example I was once asked what I would and wouldn't do for love. I ended up writing a story titled "a cup of coffee" Here you go....
...................................................................................................

It had rained harder than this several times during his life but Charlie had no compunction to remember those times at this moment. At this moment it was more than enough to be on different sides of a glass from the rain. The times when he still could get inside at all were worth more than all the money in his pockets, even if that amount was a bit less than two dollars.

He could see Rosie visibly cringe when he sat down; he knew she was soft enough to let him stay just as he knew that if her boss stopped by she would be in a bit of trouble over his presence. Even her pain was worth the brief stop in the diner, the brief pause of being outside. Even as she cringed he dropped his handful of change and asked for coffee and ice water. Rosie half smiled and half frowned and whispered for him not to stay too long this time.

Charlie poured in as much cream and sugar as the cup would hold without spilling, he knew he needed as much calcium and as many calories as he could possibly stretch out of his change, this was the only way to get it when he was surviving on the generosity of strangers. After stirring the concoction till it was an even color he used the spoon to fish an ice cube out of the glass of water and let if float on top of the light brown mixture.

He hated cool coffee but the last few years had been murder on his teeth and the shock of hot coffee against exposed nerves would cause too much pain to stay conscious. He and pain had come to an agreement but it was a compromise and he was aware of the price of not holding up his end of that agreement. Watching the ice rapidly melt a memory of his own grandfather came to his mind, doing much the same as he smoked cigarette after cigarette and talked forever in a diner much like this one. He had been very young then and bored and restless as he waited for his grandfather to bring the talking to end. Now at somewhere near sixty five he treasured every moment in a diner and silently apologized to his long dead ancestor and wished that there was someone there to talk to.

Most of all he wished that his wife was there, she had always had something to say. She could even say things without ever speaking, her smile and her eyes and her hand holding his had always been better at talking to his soul then her words. But she would never say anything again. It had been just a month after he had retired that they both sat down at the doctor’s office and heard the diagnosis. It was cancer but it was treatable and she had many more years to live they were told. He had been hopeful but later that night as she held his hand and smiled as she looked into his eyes she said “Please kill me now” that hope had died. But he had never been able to grant her wish, it was his last failure to the woman he had disappointed many times in the past.

The doctor had been right, she did have several more years, but those years weren’t really living. There had been drugs and chemicals and radiation to try to keep the cancer at bay. It weakened her, it starved her, and it robbed her of her hair. She withered, her bones showed and she finally lost all of her teeth. She looked like she had been lifted from an old sepia picture of a concentration camp. Still she would smile and look into his eyes as she held his hand.

They started removing parts of her, at first it was reproductive organs, those weren’t really necessary anymore anyway, and then it was a part of her stomach and her diet changed to liquids then changed to I.V.’s. A simple mosquito bite on an exposed ankle took advantage of her reduced immunity and they had to remove the left leg from the knee down. By the time they did that she was no longer in a private room, before she could recover and heal she was no longer in a private hospital and he was in the guest room of their only child.

His insurance had been a good plan but lifetime limits are lifetime limits he was told by a young man in a nice suit. He found then that everything that was important in his life lay dying in a bed and that everything else might just be enough to save her if even for a bit. He sold everything that he could, he borrowed against his own life insurance the day the insurance company refused to renew her policy. He emptied his retirement accounts and stole the money had they had set aside for their grandchildren’s education. In the end he even stole his daughter in law’s jewelry and hawked it for a partial payment on the huge bill the hospital presented him. That day his son asked him to not come back behind his own tears and he began spending days with his wife and nights with the homeless.

Eventually the routine ended, as he entered her room at the start of visiting hours and found it empty; as empty as the cup in his hands. He held the cup out to Rosie who glanced at the clock and shook her head, he knew he would have to leave soon before the manager came in; he gave her a smile of thanks and headed to the back. He figured he had enough time to clean up a bit with soggy paper towels and dry his socks under the blower. Then before he headed back to the rain he would pause and look into his own eyes in the mirror, pretending that they were her eyes; that she was still talking to him with her heart, he would once again apologize to her for not granting her the wish of death of her choosing at the time she desired. He would apologize, but he knew that every thing else that he had lost, even the contact of his son was worth the eight extra months of seeing her eyes look at him, he hated himself for the pain and agony it had cost her but he knew that she knew how much her love was worth to him, and she would forgive him the pain it cost to give it.

Charlie stood and prepared to go back to the rain.
 
bitterborn,
I read your first few posts on this thread and all I can say is W.O.W... :)
 
So what you are saying is that your love of seeing her happy overrides the pain felt by seeing her love all over another guy? That is some powerful love. I suppose I have the same to a different degree, however he has yet to meet someone that has knocked his socks off yet. Even so, I have watched him be enamored with someone, and the glint in his eye for someone else sends a rush of mixed emotions.

I am not sure at this point that I could stand watching him fall deeply in love. Then again I never thought I would be able to stand what I have up to this point.

Mags
 
So what you are saying is that your love of seeing her happy overrides the pain felt by seeing her love all over another guy? That is some powerful love. I suppose I have the same to a different degree, however he has yet to meet someone that has knocked his socks off yet. Even so, I have watched him be enamored with someone, and the glint in his eye for someone else sends a rush of mixed emotions.

I really never managed to say anything, I did list a lot of things that could be negative and made me sound petty. That is not what I wanted to leave you or anyone else with.

I have let is steep all day and I think I have found a way to explain it. (I hope so anyway, and I am sorry M if you took any of that negatively I really didn't mean it that way)

Let's look at some couples.

Couple one is elderly shopping at the store, they walk slowly always holding hands, He keeps nodding whenever she says something. They both pretend he hears her.

Couple two is at the park, he is on one knee holding a ring. She is jumping up and down nodding her head yes because she can't force words out of her mouth.

Couple three is sitting on the porch, watching grandchildren play, she reaches over and touches him, he smiles. They have a conversation without saying anything.

Couple four is a woman running, bursting with love to the arms of the man she hasn't seen in a week.

They are all visions of love, all mushy ( M uses that word to describe me a lot) all beautiful. It warms my heart to think of them, I can totally envision myself and M in any of those scenarios. I can do that because I am in love with her. I am fairly sure that you can see yourself and your SO in the same scenarios.

The problem comes when you see your SO and another person in that scene. Suddenly what is beautiful between two unknown people and what is beautiful between you and your SO, is now ugly, now unjust, not right, not beautiful.

But the action didn't change, the motives didn't change, the feelings between those two people didn't change. The only thing that changed was that I (or you) were not a participant with our SO. Really the only thing that changed was our perception of rightness or fairness.

I am confident in my relationship with M. She has promised to wipe my ass when I can no longer do so and I believe her. I know that what she feels for R does not change her love for me or that promise.

If she grabs my ass and whispers something raunchy in my ear while we are in a checkout line. I will be thrilled and it will be perfectly alright because she is doing it to the man she loves.

To be fair, to allow that her and R's love is authentic and genuine. I need to change my vocabulary from "the man she loves" to "ONE OF THE MEN she loves" It's perfectly alright, and thrilling for her to grab the ass of the man she loves, regardless of which one of us it is.

Love, those visions, those actions, those motions, no matter which scenario you envision; they don't hurt until you are not on the receiving end. It's kind of selfish really. Yes I get annoyed, yes I get hurt, all three of us do. For me, usually it is because I am putting meaning behind actions, I am making myself a victim, all because two people I care deeply for are expressing their love for each other. They aren't trying to send me any message other than that they know I accept them, and they trust me with their love.

These negative feelings are real, but they are usually born from my own selfish view. To deal with them I look for and usually find an alternative viewpoint.
 
I really never managed to say anything, I did list a lot of things that could be negative and made me sound petty. That is not what I wanted to leave you or anyone else with.

Trust me, I do not think you sound petty at all. This is what makes your writings so amazing, I am just trying to understand how to do what you do.

Thank you for your time explaining things, and your deep insight. Everything you say makes sense, I would love to see you debate Dr. Phil. :)
 
, I would love to see you debate Dr. Phil. :)

Not me, I am not a fan of the man. I am at my worst when I jump to conclusions based on a single statement, I am as bad as him when I assign a single negative reason to an action.

I find I do much better when I have time to look at myself and the situations I find myself in, sort out my feelings and then calmly discuss them. The good Dr passes judgement based on what society feels, assigns labels and gives a path back to normality.

Society and normality left me behind a long time, I am simply and uniquely me. The labels and disorders he would apply to me, my loves and my friends (probably a lot of people on this forum) would no more help or heal then self flagellation would.

To be fair to him, he has helped people, he is intelligent and well educated. He obviously likes himself and is widely popular. There is a large part of his audience who watch to see the misery and watch him beat up on the miserable. It helps them feel better about them self.

I like who I am, I love where I am, it took me a lifetime to get here. I don't think the good Dr. would like me, my relationship or my life.

That's ok, the feelings mutual.
 
...two people I care deeply for are expressing their love for each other. They aren't trying to send me any message other than that they know I accept them, and they trust me with their love.

I love this! To claim it for myself: Butch Cassidy and I know that Sundance accepts us, and we trust him with our love. Oooh, nice way of putting that. It really is a trusting thing, this poly honesty. We've been a V since last October, so it is still pretty new, and Sundance still struggles mightily at times. Butch and I are very respectful of his feelings; we don't flaunt our relationship and actually we don't even say the words "I love you." Butch and Sundance go out for drinks every few weeks, just to keep things real between them. I know there are so many men out there who could not even begin to fathom what they (and you) are doing. I feel so special that they both think I am worth it :). I'm sure your M feels the same way. Vodkafan does seem to express similar feelings for his wife, here on the forum. You are both such an inspiration. Truly helps me when the world seems to be saying, "You are crazy to think that this can work." Loving both of them is the only thing that makes any sense. I couldn't imagine quitting either of them. I am so happy and grateful to my men that I don't have to. Sundance has made sacrifices for me in this marriage in order to spare me from making a painful sacrifice. I think THAT is "true love" :rolleyes:
 
I love this! To claim it for myself: Butch Cassidy and I know that Sundance accepts us, and we trust him with our love. Oooh, nice way of putting that. It really is a trusting thing, this poly honesty. We've been a V since last October, so it is still pretty new, and Sundance still struggles mightily at times. Butch and I are very respectful of his feelings; we don't flaunt our relationship and actually we don't even say the words "I love you." Butch and Sundance go out for drinks every few weeks, just to keep things real between them. I know there are so many men out there who could not even begin to fathom what they (and you) are doing. I feel so special that they both think I am worth it :). I'm sure your M feels the same way. Vodkafan does seem to express similar feelings for his wife, here on the forum. You are both such an inspiration. Truly helps me when the world seems to be saying, "You are crazy to think that this can work." Loving both of them is the only thing that makes any sense. I couldn't imagine quitting either of them. I am so happy and grateful to my men that I don't have to. Sundance has made sacrifices for me in this marriage in order to spare me from making a painful sacrifice. I think THAT is "true love" :rolleyes:


You have a beautiful life Carma. That paragraph almost sounds religious :)

Someone else sacrificing so that another does not have too. It's a two way street, or in the world you and I share at least a three way street. It's not just Vodkafan, Sundance, and I that sacrifice.

It's also Butch, and R, and Ms Vodkafan's OSO. They also have to leave when they don't want to, they have to fall asleep thinking of the one they love sharing a bed with another man. They watch their words, show what they believe to be the proper respect, refrain from saying things that may upset the one you have the longer history with. They even put the toilet seat down when it's not their habit.

It's also you, and M and Ms Vodkafan that sacrifice. I know intimately how hard it can be to love one person, I know how hard it can be to love two. The utter emotional exhaustion, the making time, trying to be equal, the guilt when you are spending time with one as your mind is obsessing on the other.

Doing this... Loving two, or loving one who loves two.... It takes faith in their love, it takes faith in their love's love, for you and M and Ms Vodkafan it takes faith in both loves. It takes faith... that the love is true enough to sacrifice for.
 
Sometimes its so frustrating, not being able to convey my feelings clearly. Tonight I am feeling irritated about it all, I want to be selfish, I want to be "normal" and I want the fairytale. I am feeling sentimental for the childish dreams I once held. I suppose its no different than wanting world peace or utopia. Uhhg, dealing with reality sometimes is difficult, at least for me.
 
Sometimes its so frustrating, not being able to convey my feelings clearly. Tonight I am feeling irritated about it all, I want to be selfish, I want to be "normal" and I want the fairytale. I am feeling sentimental for the childish dreams I once held. I suppose its no different than wanting world peace or utopia. Uhhg, dealing with reality sometimes is difficult, at least for me.

Me too Mags, me too. I am frustrated that I don't convey my feelings clearly. I want to be selfish and sometimes I am. Reality can be difficult.

You and I are different people in different situations. I can't speak for where you find yourself. I wish I could give you the magic pill that would make everything perfect for you.

I wrote a one paragraph fairy tale called "The Land of Cidence" during a difficult time......

The Land of Cidence, it is a place that everyone will end up at one point in their dreams and even more often in their lives. A place of questionable beauty that seems overly familiar and even though uncomfortable seems right. The porridge of the little bear is the food Cidence and LA Smog is the air Cidence. Tears falling from a woman’s cheek are the water Cidence. There is no money in Cidence but when tears on a stubbly cheek match those falling as water Cidence, well then that is a coin Cidence.

People look at fairy tales as beautiful loving things, almost everyone I shared Land of Cidence loved it and said nice wonderful things about it. That one paragraph is one of my favorites.

The truth is that most fairy tales are about ugly or violent things where the victim ends up the hero or the princess only after great suffering, great tragedy or overcoming difficult obstacles.

Your life, your relationship, may still be a fairy tale. Maybe you are only in the first part of the story.

As far as the Land of Cidence goes.... It is one of the most beautifully written things I have been able to put on paper. But it is a most ugly emotion carefully hidden in the trappings of imagery, it was at a terrible point in my relationship, full of pain and misery. It amazes me that no one that has read it can't see that without it being pointed out to them.

We do it the other way too, focus on the bad and let it belittle the good. We focus on what we are feeling upset by and ignore the beauty. Trust me I understand how you feel and why you feel that way.

It's too bad no one ever wrote a fairy tale about a woman who thought she was losing a husband, but after some magic, a dead dragon and a journey through the evil woods being chased by an evil wizard, ends up with another spouse and a life filled with twice the love of normal mortals. Or maybe, someone will write it about your life.
 
I don't think you have a bit of trouble conveying your feelings bitter!!! You get straight to my heart every time! Yes you are right, all fairy tales do tell the tale of hardship before the wonderful ending. Thank you for reminding me of this, I do live a fairy tale, sometimes I forget this.

When I look back from where I used to be, compared to what I am right now, I realize I have made huge changes and progression. But there are those moments, late at night when I feel alone and my mind wanders. Thanks for being here Bitter!!

Mags
 
For those that didn't get Cidence, here it is again, first original then translated to reality.

The Land of Cidence, it is a place that everyone will end up at one point in their dreams and even more often in their lives. A place of questionable beauty that seems overly familiar and even though uncomfortable seems right. The porridge of the little bear is the food Cidence and LASmog is the air Cidence. Tears falling from a woman’s cheek are the water Cidence. There is no money in Cidence but when tears on a stubbly cheek match those falling as water Cidence, well then that is a coin Cidence.

The reality version.. (now changed to past tense)
Life was ugly and had become our normal and I doubted it would ever change. It seemed that she cried all the time. When we were both crying it WAS only a "coinCidence". We were not crying over the same thing.

That was a bad time in our lives. It was one of the obstacles we had to overcome to head towards the happy ending.
 
It is beautiful. I cant imagine my life without him, and I knew from the start this ride wouldn't be easy. He is exactly what I need to inspire my soul to reach unattainable heights that would never be realized by living a "normal" life.

Sometimes it isn't pretty at all, its ugly and dirty, and I wonder how I found myself wallowing in the dirt again. I mean I am the one that chose this path, I knew from the beginning and had time to bail if I wanted to. The truth is I didnt want to, I saw magic in him, I saw a person that could teach me so many things that I may never get to experience other wise. I am getting exactly what I asked for.

I like to take moments when I am feeling strong and happy, to reflect on the life I live, and would never trade it for the world, I love him so deeply and honestly, I have no fear that he will leave, he accepts me like no other person ever has, I find a lot of comfort to be myself, and that is something that is irreplaceable.
 
For those that didn't get Cidence, here it is again, first original then translated to reality.

The Land of Cidence, it is a place that everyone will end up at one point in their dreams and even more often in their lives. A place of questionable beauty that seems overly familiar and even though uncomfortable seems right. The porridge of the little bear is the food Cidence and LASmog is the air Cidence. Tears falling from a woman’s cheek are the water Cidence. There is no money in Cidence but when tears on a stubbly cheek match those falling as water Cidence, well then that is a coin Cidence.

The reality version.. (now changed to past tense)
Life was ugly and had become our normal and I doubted it would ever change. It seemed that she cried all the time. When we were both crying it WAS only a "coinCidence". We were not crying over the same thing.

That was a bad time in our lives. It was one of the obstacles we had to overcome to head towards the happy ending.

bitterborn this is my first run through your blog. You are an eloquent writer, a good communicator and synthesizer. I will be rereading often I am sure.

I seem to be stuck in this cycle of coincidence with both Hubs and 2Rings. I so often feel like I am in a mine-field. My dreams really seem so far out of reach with obstacles (hidden and glaringly noticeable). It seems we (Me and Hubs) (Me and 2Rings) are never on the same page for very long. So I know it must be within me, my communication problems, my expectations, my mannerisms. I just am at a loss as to how to get to the happy ending.

I would love to be somewhere that sustainably feels right.
 
I only talk about R in vague terms and how he impacts my relationship with M. That's mainly because he is not an internet/computer person and I don't feel that I should discuss a person who doesn't have a chance to see it and interject their own view or counterpoint into the conversation.

Enter B and C into this diatribe. B and C are a lesbian couple that with much love and affection we refer to as our sister wives. Truly part of our family, platonic, loving, accepting, more than friends. We have discussed on more than one occasion having a compound with goats, chickens and a huge garden; we are that close. I will write more of them in the future, you deserve to know what wonderful people they are. (they have looked at this blog and graciously allowed me to discuss them)

Anyway, we met them at a lake yesterday to set up their camp, and fish. Since we never made it down to the water, drank a few beers, and utilized half a dozen screwdrivers, a set of jumper cables, christmas lights and ground beef.... It is one of my favorite fishing trips ever.

R actually met us! M and I were surprised and happy! The first time he has interacted with our friends, we expected awkwardness, we expected that he would change his behaviour in front of others, we were wrong. Everyone took it all in stride, the simple explanation of "her boyfriend" was all that needed, he was treated as family. What a great afternoon.

Sometime during the day, C and I made an ice run. During the run, C asked, " Are you ok with this?" ... yes "Uhmm I didn't think she was attracted to guys like that" .... I was surprised too, but she loves him... Not someone I thought she would be attracted, not someone I would be attracted too.... (yes dear reader, I am not exactly straight).. "She loves him????".... yes, she does... "and you are ok with that?"... yes, if she didn't I don't know if I would be... "Ok, then I am ok too...."

The conversation later degraded into the sexual habits of mallards, western gulls, penguins and swans. (fascinating in it's own respects) M and R wandered off for some alone time, a good time had by all.

It's nice spending time with people you love.
 
Labels suck. M and I were discussing us (M,R,ME) last night, exploring the relationship, our feelings and emotions and how to describe the relationship. Thanx forum for the words to describe this. So we are in a V, she's the hinge, R is secondary and I am primary... I think..

My problem with that is I don't want to hang the word secondary on anyone. I especially don't want to hang it on a relationship. "Secondary Partner" is almost an oxymoron and devalues it to, well second place.

I have issues with the V as well, I know the points are us and the lines between us are supposed to represent our relationships to each other. But shouldn't there be a dotted line between R and I then, or maybe a squiggly, to indicate a non sexual, non romantic link of friendship and shared interest. If we got down to it, since there is another person in R's life that is not in ours, should it be a N or a Z. The best we could come up with in a rather surreal conversation involving letters to describe our relationship ended up being an H.

H, with the lines being us and the points where they intersect used to represent intimate attachment. M is the cross member that connects the two parallel loves in her life.

So here we go... I am a usually hetero, bi, (maybe pan?) non monogamous, undecided between agnostic and atheist, male in a committed hetero Poly H relationship with a bisexual, spiritual, woman and a old fashioned, probably died in the wool republican, definitely hetero male.

I don't know if I am on the left or the right of the H. Probably her left since that is where the ring is.
 
Ever want to shake some sense into your partner and their partner?

Last couple of days the two of them have been working through some issues. I have to be careful not to let my bias towards M flavor my thoughts, actions or words.

We also have a guideline that we don't bitch about one partner to another. We can talk about them, explain how they upset us, etc... but don't let it turn into a bitch section. This stems back to the period of our marriage where we had an "open relationship". (Funny how that now we are poly I know longer consider it open) Where bitching about your spouse was a technique way too many people were using to get a pity fuck.

I have a personal guideline that their relationship is their's to fix and fuck up. I can't make it perfect, I won't manipulate it. I wouldn't tolerate it from anyone else.

But.........
Man there are those occasions where I really want to tell M, quit expecting the worse, quit tearing yourself up over things that you think he meant or things he never said. Btw, I am a guy, I may have some perspective into that male personality of his.

And there are times I want to tell R, you know she has a lifetime you don't know about, she will react in ways you never expected, love and pain has taught her hard lessons. If you would only ask when you are bewildered by her I could share some insight and save you a lot of grief you bring on yourself. But you gotta ask before you go all quiet and pissy.
 
Back
Top