Decided to Wait on Poly but...

ALpolyman

New member
As my name suggests (ALpolyman) that at least I, or my wife and I, are poly. Well, I guess that's a bit of a misnomer now. Let me explain. We determined a long time ago that we both desired to have a woman to love (more than just sex) in a triad fashion. In trying to make a triad happen, we quickly figured out that we would need to open ourselves up to the other facets of poly...that is us dating other people without the involvement of the spouse. We talked about this over the past few months and I thought we were on the right track to begin this endeavor. We were going to create OKC profiles and begin a search and take things slow. But, I kept noticing some hesitancy in my wife and I never could get her to explain what it was. As I mentioned in a previous post, she's a "type A", impatient, and sometimes difficult to get her to spill the beans on how she feels. Deeply involved conversations usually take several "sessions" because she's always ready to move on in some fashion. But, very recently, our conversation went something like this: My wife is focusing on starting her business, getting stuff ready for Halloween (her favorite holiday), etc, etc. She feels as though we really don't have the time. But, beyond that, she feels that her jealousy and mine, is something so difficult to overcome that it may be to the detriment of our marriage. Furthermore, even though she wants to have the full-on woman-on-woman experience with or without me, she doesn't want it nearly as bad as I want to be with another woman. So, we decided to table the idea and talk about it in a few more months.

Here's my take on this: I'm in agreement with what she said. I feel the same way and I empathize and sympathize with how she feels. Even if I had sex with another woman and she said “yeah, go for it” and meant it, I would probably be sick to my stomach afterward and would probably be an emotional wreck for a little while. I guess it’s because I have so much self-integrity and a moral compass that breaking “my own rules” or “breaking society’s rules” will make me crazy. Still, I have this underlying desire to experience being with another woman, preferably in a threesome scenario but I suspect that’s highly unlikely at first. I can’t really explain why and I don’t know what to do about it. No, I won’t ever cheat on her…my heart absolutely wouldn’t let me and even if I did, I couldn’t live with that decision. I’m very loyal. Now, I still have the freedom to flirt as I please but anything beyond obviously requires a conversation. I guess the bottom line here is that I’m fine waiting for a while and revisiting. But, I know the jealousy thing will still be there no matter how long we decided to wait. I truly believe that we would have to just take it slow if we decided to open ourselves up to dating and talk about it and see how we feel. I won’t force anything on her either. So, what’s a man to do? I’ve already peeked inside the Christmas gift enough to see what’s inside that I’m ready to tear the wrapping off but it’s not time yet. Thoughts?
 
If you mutually decided to table it for a few months, do that. No harm in it. It's not like the moment you start broadcasting on a dating site that you'll be flooded with women dying to meet you both. She might be, but more doubtful for you. Law of supply and demand.

Anyway, taking it at her pace will be beneficial for both of you. In doing that, you likely won't be posting drama-filled entries in the future - like so many other people on this site seem compelled to do. Patience is awesome.

And why do you want another woman? Evolution, buddy. You aren't genetically engineered to desire only one person. Most of us aren't (monogamous or poly).
 
Hire a sex worker for a threesome
 
And why do you want another woman? Evolution, buddy. You aren't genetically engineered to desire only one person. Most of us aren't (monogamous or poly).

Can the same be said for women wanting another mate (woman or man) other than the one she has?
 
Thanks for sharing. I understand how frustrating it can be!

I am hearing two things in your post.

1- you do not believe in your own (and your wifes) ability to evolve mentally and emotionally.

2- your views of integrity and loyalty seem to be limiting you in your own mental and emotional evolution. And you are also using your ideas of morals etc. to justify your position of being stuck.

she feels that her jealousy and mine, is something so difficult to overcome that it may be to the detriment of......

As long as you believe that you have a limitation- you are strengthening that limitation. We become what we focus on.

I feel the same way and I empathize and sympathize with how she feels. Even if I had sex with another woman and she said “yeah, go for it” and meant it, I would probably be sick to my stomach afterward and would probably be an emotional wreck for a little while.

Again- you are visualizing and projecting negative results rather than allowing yourself to evolve and visualize and project positive results.

I guess it’s because I have so much self-integrity and a moral compass that breaking “my own rules” or “breaking society’s rules” will make me crazy.i

Not only are you expecting a negative reaction, but you are justifying it by putting yourself on a pedestal and claiming super human qualities of integrity and morals.

Still, I have this underlying desire to experience being with another woman, preferably in a threesome scenario but I suspect that’s highly unlikely at first.

Another negative expectation.....it is based on reality- however the best way to overcome realistic challenges is to approach them with a positive outlook and determination.

I can’t really explain why and I don’t know what to do about it. No, I won’t ever cheat on her…my heart absolutely wouldn’t let me and even if I did, I couldn’t live with that decision.

More negative projections.

I’m very loyal.

More being on a pedestal.

But, I know the jealousy thing will still be there no matter how long we decided to wait.

I don't see you being able to work with this lifestyle. I am hearing way too many negative and limiting beliefs.

Whether you realize it or not- People can evolve mentally and emotionally and they do that all the time.

It's just a matter of believing that it is possible, believing that it is possible for YOU and wanting it. These are the things that need to be worked on first.

All the best for you and your wife!
 
idealist,

Great response and you definitely put a different perspective on it. One thing I have to overcome is my wife's negativity. That's not a slam at all. She is her own worst enemy sometimes and I'm usually the chearleader saying "yeah, you can do it". I've had to learn to become a more positive person but as you can tell, I'm wrapped in my own negativity. Still, she believes that pursuing this will possibly compromise this marriage. I don't know how to get her to open up a little more and take the baby steps necessary to grow.

Regarding my own pedestal...well, I am a proud individual in that I won't do things to upset my wife. The short story is she can be a high stress individual and so I make it a point to realize when I push her over the stressful edge. I know that her stress is her problem and I've encouraged her to seek counseling but money gets tight so she chooses not to go. I just have to be choosy when to talk about certain topics.

So back to the negativity and limiting beliefs, what would you suggest as to how to proceed? I truly believe that baby steps with small successes is our best recipe here.
 
Idealist, cut him some slack. Nobody ever ends where they start, beliefs and understanding evolve as realities change. Sure, there's some maturity needed, but find one person out there who has the 'right' outlook immediately.

He's hesitant, and he has some ideas that are going to change. But is he really putting himself on a pedestal? :)
 
So back to the negativity and limiting beliefs, what would you suggest as to how to proceed? I truly believe that baby steps with small successes is our best recipe here.

You're not negative, you're apprehensive due to lack of context. Have some safe experiences when you're both ready and learn from them.

Up front, it sounds like you're looking for a possible FWB or perhaps swinging experience with no strings attached, rather than a 'relationship' with other people. Is that about right?
 
Up front, it sounds like you're looking for a possible FWB or perhaps swinging experience with no strings attached, rather than a 'relationship' with other people. Is that about right?

Actually our preference would be someone we could, at a minimum, call a friend...I suppose FWB. But, the experience really needs to be a mind, body, soul connection. The physical, without the rest, somehow seems empty (maybe because I've never done that before). We also look to have a "repeat customer" if you will. Building a trusting relationship, learning about each other, doing things together, etc, is what would be the apex of what we seek. I still believe that the easiest way to obtain the triad thing is to date separately. We just have to convince ourselves that nothing bad can result from it. I mean, my vision on how that could work would be to find someone to date (with boundaries/limitations) and see how the spouse feels. If all is well, then maybe add a little bit more to the equation...wash, rinse, repeat. Again, we have to get to a place where we're both comfortable with the idea.
 
idealist.......back to the negativity and limiting beliefs, what would you suggest as to how to proceed? I truly believe that baby steps with small successes is our best recipe here.

I would suggest that the two of you continue to visualize what it is that you do want......spend more time focusing on that rather that the negative things that you are anticipating to happen. When my partner and I entered the lifestyle, we spent time visualizing how positive it would be and we also imagined what it would be like and how we might react. At the same time, we were open and willing to move forward with positive intentions for ourselves and the people we encountered.

When one of us has a negative or difficult experience, we use it as a chance to learn and move forward.

When we encounter a person or people who don't share our values or our ethics, we move away from them.

Bottom line is that we believe we are free to create a positive life for ourselves without having to sacrifice our personal morals, ethics, values and intentions.

If you want to send me a personal message, I can send you some worksheets that we use which helps identify values, feelings and intentions. These things can be worked on together.

I also agree with others that have said slower is better in your case and it probably would be great if she could get some therapy.
 
I would suggest that the two of you continue to visualize what it is that you do want......spend more time focusing on that rather that the negative things that you are anticipating to happen. When my partner and I entered the lifestyle, we spent time visualizing how positive it would be and we also imagined what it would be like and how we might react. At the same time, we were open and willing to move forward with positive intentions for ourselves and the people we encountered.

When one of us has a negative or difficult experience, we use it as a chance to learn and move forward.

When we encounter a person or people who don't share our values or our ethics, we move away from them.

Bottom line is that we believe we are free to create a positive life for ourselves without having to sacrifice our personal morals, ethics, values and intentions.

If you want to send me a personal message, I can send you some worksheets that we use which helps identify values, feelings and intentions. These things can be worked on together.

I also agree with others that have said slower is better in your case and it probably would be great if she could get some therapy.

Well, I guess we have two different points of view…at least partly. While we have tried to envision what we want, I submit that I cannot ignore the negative consequences, unintended or otherwise. I tend to think as a realist…meaning that I know what I’d like to have but figuring out how I can have my cake and eat it too, and do it without the side effects. I think it’s awesome that you and your partner have the wherewithal to envision, or did envision, the poly experience and were able to obtain it. But, that’s why I’m here; to try to figure out what will work for us. I say that to say this. We are socially trained to be married…married to someone of the opposite sex. We’ve had this shit jammed down our throats our entire lives, yet somehow along the way, we figured out that the whole one man, one woman thing didn’t seem right. Now we’re trying to undo some of this, unravel it small strands at a time but struggling with it. We’ve had a few short thirty-something years to learn this, just to try to figure out how to unlearn it in a year or two. Please don’t take this as a slight against you; it is not. It’s a slight against society as a whole and I want something different for myself before I die. Perhaps I just need some perspective from those who struggled with similar experiences and how they overcame it…an example. Maybe that might add a little context to the situation. Anybody have context?
 
I certainly understand! I will share my process.

I am 56 years old. I was raised in the Deep South (Bible belt) as a good little Catholic girl. My parents are monogamous and (until my Dad passed) were together for 58 years. I was raised in a monogamous culture and was told fairy tales which supported the idea that there is that perfect one person for each of us and that we would meet them, marry them and live happily ever after.

All of the movies support that as well as music, books, magazines etc. About 4 years ago (at the age of 52) I decided that monogamy didn't make sense to me any more and that despite what the culture teaches, it isn't working out so well in general for the culture either.

I went through an angry phase for about a year. Angry at the culture that brainwashed me to believe that a monogamous relationship is the only type of valid relationship.

Then- I got angry at myself. I have always considered myself to be a free thinker. But I got angry at myself for buying into something that suddenly seemed like a bunch of bullshit.

Once I processed and worked through my anger and frustration is when I began to visualize what I wanted to create for myself.

I moved forward with confidence, honesty and discernment. My primary partner and I discussed things a lot and we moved forward and began to meet people.

Until you actually start meeting and interacting with people, you really don't know how things are going to be.

We approach the lifestyle from a place of trust in each other, honesty with one another, consideration for one another.

We have had a few situations where one of us felt uncomfortable and we worked through it.

For me it is a matter of

1- giving myself permission to question authority and what the culture has taught me my entire life.

2- giving myself permission to make my own rules

3- make my own rules and set out to find others that are open to them (and there are a lot of them fortunately!)

And the way I am able to feel good about myself and my life is because I operate from a place of authentic honesty- confidence, consideration, passion and humor.

I guess I am saying the same thing as I said before, but your post seemed to imply that you are the only one who has been brainwashed about monogamy and I would just suggest that everyone has.
 
threesums are easy, triads are hard

and no matter how much thinking you put into it, there are likely to be days that are hard to deal with, but if you always take it one baby step at a time, or one day at a time, and allow yourselves the understanding to make mistakes (which goes the smoothest when you can come back after an emotionally tough day, and recognize the things said or done that may have been closer to mistakes then not) because you will make mistakes, but it's what you do afterward that counts

if you can do that, there will not be anything -- or few things -- that translate to damage beyond repair.

It's my opinion that threesums may complicate things as an introduction to "open" when transitioning as a committed couple, so I shouldn't have started this comment with "threesums are easy" I just meant it is not nearly as hard to find a third for a sexual experience, it's the triad dynamic that is tough, so you may not want to begin with a threesum with your spouse. Some people get turned on to see there spouse with another and some don't do well, but if you are not sure then it seems more likely that it will bring up a "hidden hurt" that you get sucker punched by, so honestly it might be best to try a glory hole and see how that goes.

Another approach would be to have sex in the same bed with another couple but only involved your hands or mostly two separate couples having sex known as "soft swap"

however you wouldn't be the first couple to decide in the heat of the moment that you're ready for a full swap, but right after orgasm some people start to think slightly different

From my limited experience, a good indication of your "THIS IS NOT A DRILL" poly/non-monogamy preparedness is how your conversations with your spouse go, but it is hard to explain in a coherent way. The jist of it is, if you have to verbally dance around certain words it is not a good sign.

the other thing to look out for, is the added excitement of threesum NRE, if you never scream "oh gawd!" and you suddenly do in front of your wife, and it's not because of something she did, it can be a little hard for one's ego to take

so there may be some things you might not have anticipated

so you may want to think about how each of you would feel if you saw the other in a far more "pleasureably animated exhuberence" so to speak, but there to, many many people, both husbands and wives -- everybody really -- has some form of a seriously twisted wild animal that they didn't have the slightest idear was caged, in a closet they didn't even know existed nor did they realize it was part of them. Sometimes one person likes to see their SO's wild side, but they themselves can get comfortable with it and feel ashamed that too can cause damage that some people never learn to get passed

They can be extremely joyous experiences, but it can take some getting used to, and there is nothing wrong with not being comfortable about anything that is YOUR sexuality, in fact nothing is more sure to make things implode or explode then for a person to feel pressured and then the experience becomes a complex. Sex is a powerful and emotional experience, one that I strongly feel is enhanced the more you can consciously get into and unfortunately many people have been already given a rather severe complex before they even reached puberty by well meaning but extremely emotionally damaging "masturbation is bad" teachings. Any subject regarding sex that gets mentioned but not discussed thoroughly enough so that an understanding can be had risks giving a person a sexual complex. Sex is better being fully present as opposed to detached and if you enter a situation that your spouse later has to work hard to forget it is a recipe for damage beyond repair,

so be cautious won't ever be as damaging as leaping without looking.
 
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Waiting and continuing to research and have discussions is NOT a bad decision! To me it show a great deal of maturity. So many people, claim to have a "rock solid" marriage, jump into poly (or anything else that produces relationship stressors) only to have all the flaws that were so easily ignored previously highlighted and magnified. I tend to be the negative personality. My first answer is automatically wants to be NO, then I think on it for a few hours and, then I'm fine with it. I know this about myself, and I try to accommodate for it, so instead of saying NO upfront, I tell people I need to think about it and will get back to them in a few hours.

Counseling wouldn't be a bad idea. Not counceling to "save" a bad marriage, but to make a good marriage better. You have already identified a few issues that the two of you struggle with, start there. Why do both of you struggle with jealousies? Is it fear, someone's being neglected, too much social programing, etc. I'm not normally a jealous person, but when I'm feeling neglected or ignored, then I do get jealous. Even if you don't see a counselor, spend some time working on strengthening your communication skills between the two of you.
 
are you reading and researching while you wait? Especially with jealousy, books on non-monogamy can be very helpful. I feel "the ethical slut" has a great chapter on jealousy, also morethantwo.com has great articles too. if its what you really want, get educated and bring it back up when you think you can. There are always reasons not to,but it becomes difficult to ignore your own needs.

It might just be me, but ive never felt regret being with my boyfriend sexually because im married to someone else, especially knowing that J knows way lays any guilt. If you feel you have some moral compass to overcome, thats something you can do by researching for your own self discovery. I came to poly by realizing i just wanted more, i love more, i want to be physical more, we dealt with all the baggage as it came
 
are you reading and researching while you wait? Especially with jealousy, books on non-monogamy can be very helpful. I feel "the ethical slut" has a great chapter on jealousy, also morethantwo.com has great articles too. if its what you really want, get educated and bring it back up when you think you can. There are always reasons not to,but it becomes difficult to ignore your own needs.
It might just be me, but ive never felt regret being with my boyfriend sexually because im married to someone else, especially knowing that J knows way lays any guilt. If you feel you have some moral compass to overcome, thats something you can do by researching for your own self discovery. I came to poly by realizing i just wanted more, i love more, i want to be physical more, we dealt with all the baggage as it came
I've done quite a bit of reading off and on over the last 6 months or so. I think I've read just about everything on morethantwo. I'll check out "The Ethical Slut". Do you have any other recommendations? More than anything though, I think for us, talking about it and waiting a while...then coming back to it again has widened the door little by little. For example, one of my best friends is a female who is a co-worker. My wife used to think that she had the hots for me but she doesn't care anymore. She knows that we go to lunch and text and stuff. I suppose 'time' is what's helped somewhat. Two years ago, I would have freaked at the idea of my wife seeing another man or woman. Now, it's not as big of a deal so there are at least mental baby steps. I agree about what you say about ignoring needs though. I just can't explain it but I get these burning desires just thinking about what it would be like to be with another woman. I suppose that's just genetic coding and evolution at work underneath it all.

The personal guilt will just take some time. It’s definitely a tight rope to walk balancing what I want, my own guilt, what my wife thinks, etc. Through it all though, we both realize that humankind should have the option to explore love beyond the shackles of a marriage. I use the work shackles not because I feel trapped married to my wonderful wife, but because it’s a societal norm that is preached to us over our lifetimes.
 
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I've done quite a bit of reading off and on over the last 6 months or so. I think I've read just about everything on morethantwo. I'll check out "The Ethical Slut". Do you have any other recommendations? More than anything though, I think for us, talking about it and waiting a while...then coming back to it again has widened the door little by little. For example, one of my best friends is a female who is a co-worker. My wife used to think that she had the hots for me but she doesn't care anymore. She knows that we go to lunch and text and stuff. I suppose 'time' is what's helped somewhat. Two years ago, I would have freaked at the idea of my wife seeing another man or woman. Now, it's not as big of a deal so there are at least mental baby steps. I agree about what you say about ignoring needs though. I just can't explain it but I get these burning desires just thinking about what it would be like to be with another woman. I suppose that's just genetic coding and evolution at work underneath it all.

The personal guilt will just take some time. It’s definitely a tight rope to walk balancing what I want, my own guilt, what my wife thinks, etc. Through it all though, we both realize that humankind should have the option to explore love beyond the shackles of a marriage. I use the work shackles not because I feel trapped married to my wonderful wife, but because it’s a societal norm that is preached to us over our lifetimes.

My boyfriend is enjoying "Opening Up" thats something you could read together. You seem like you are really doing some thinking and talking and thats great. Ypour coworker story amused me, cause thats how Nudge and I started (still work togehter). lol
 
Do you have any other recommendations?

I just finished reading Sex at Dawn - very very fascinating, and it really helps deconstruct the "social ideal" of lifelong monogamy, by showing that pretty much no society has ever actually achieved it in the majority.
 
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