anger at self need advice

ok well here it goes,

i am really lucky, i have two men in my life that are wonderful.

the problem i have is that the man that i was engaged to(no longer engaged because he wants my other partner to be on equal footing), whom i love, i have grown to hate intimate contact with him. kissing him makes me almost sick to my stomach and does not evoke any feelings of physical attraction. yes he is aware of this. it feels wrong when we make love. things in this relationship have been going downhill physically for at least three years. both Patric and me love each other dearly. He has been having problems in that area even though he is 27. he cannot get it up or keep it up(yes i know this is graphic, sorry if i offend). so for both of us this side of the relationship has died. we love sleeping next to each other and cuddling. We talk and laugh and fight just like any other couple that lives together. To loose each other(ie breakup) would devastate us. we have always been more friends then lovers. I feel terrible not being able to comfortably express physically my love for him. He is going through a tough time right now due to some illness and severe attention deficit disorder which involves inattention.

add to the pile my first boyfriend coming back into my life ( Patrick fully supports this). the physical intimacy is amazing on with this person. the love is extreme. if i were ever to say that there was such a thing as soul mates he would be the one.

so i love two people. which is weird because even though i have lots of friends that are in many different version of poly relationships i am not quiet comfortable with it internally yet. i mentally want this. but i was raised as a mono and am still having problems moving away form preset notions. i choose this relationship and am happy with the way things are i am having sever problems with not being able to love Patrick and be intimate with him. he just doesn't do it that way for me and i feel terrible about it. he is aware of this and tells me its ok but i am still feeling guilty.

the other thing is that i am turning 30 this year. last year my drive for intimacy jumped through the roof. i never was this way before and now this causes me to feel weird. i don't know how to be OK with this.

my soul mate is new to poly as well. he is just learning with the rest of us because this is all new to us.

how do i be ok with my want of lots of intimacy with my soul mate and be ok with the fact that i don't physically want Patrick. i feel terrible. i mean i love them both deeply. i have given Patrick the OK to seek elsewhere if he wants. but i still feel the loss of the ability to love Patrick in a intimate way.

confused.

tanya
 
Don't worry about the graphics here, we have seen the gammot ;)

Are you sure that you aren't just a non-sexual partner to your man? That is totally valid if you are. Sex and love are not always mutually inclusive. It could be that you are just fine with poly but think that you are not okay with it because of your mono tendancies... just a thought.

I have had bouts with PN where we have not had sex for up to three months. I have a lot of sex with Mono, everyday and some sometimes... It makes no difference to the amount of love I have. I also have a non-sexual boyfriend that I consider to be close and a girlfriend that due to circumstances I don't have tons of intimacy with. There are others on here that don't have sex with partners often because they have LDR's. The sex part in poly is kind of secondary. I don't know if you should be worried about it so much... if he is happy and you are and everyone is then you're good no?

If the issue is that you want to have more and so does he yet you can't bring yourself to, then that is another thing. Is his illness anything to do with the lack of drive for him and you? Is there any way around doing things a traditional way? Could you get a bit of kink on and be satisfied? Perhaps kissing is off the table, but a back massage isn't, him penetrating is off the table but him fingering you isn't, him smacking your ass and inserting a dildo is okay, but not a blow job.... see where I'm going? There is lots to do, maybe a bit of creativity... if you still want to have sex with him that is...
 
I'm curious when your lack of attraction to Patrick and his ED began relative to your involvement with the old boyfriend... Are there any correlations? What happened to change the way you felt about being with him?

Has Patrick sought medical help for his problem?
 
I have had bouts with PN where we have not had sex for up to three months. I have a lot of sex with Mono, everyday and some sometimes... It makes no difference to the amount of love I have. I also have a non-sexual boyfriend that I consider to be close and a girlfriend that due to circumstances I don't have tons of intimacy with. There are others on here that don't have sex with partners often because they have LDR's. The sex part in poly is kind of secondary. I don't know if you should be worried about it so much... if he is happy and you are and everyone is then you're good no?

...

Wow. Thats a STREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETCH.

The inability to have physical sex is NOT secondary.
Not wanting sex is.
Big ol' difference.





@ OP : Define what you believe a 'partner' is. Is it romantic ? Is it people you can hang out with ? If it`s based in romance, and romantic love,..then you aren`t doing your former fiance any favours by being with him.

If it`s basis is on 'relationships in any form' and HE is also ok with that, then don`t feel guilty, carve your own path. Just make sure neither of you, are fooling yourselves.
 
@ OP : Define what you believe a 'partner' is. Is it romantic ? Is it people you can hang out with ? If it`s based in romance, and romantic love,..then you aren`t doing your former fiance any favours by being with him.

QUOTE]

Wanting or needing sex does not define romantic love - i can cuddle and make out with my fiance and not want to have sex at all... I just want that special intimacy...

People can have sex with no love whatsoever being in the equation - it seems odd that you would use sex in a definition of romantic love... romantic love, to me, can exist quite happily with no sexual encounter at all...

Perhaps it is simply that the OP's NRE is playing silly buggers with her at the moment and things will settle down once she does??
Either way if she feels her relationship with her fiance is romantic, then it quite likely is... having the physical aspect removed does not mean she does not love her fiance...

though I do red flag at the sick to the stomach bit...
 
There ar people on here and that I know of that would have sex if they were around their partner physically, but as they have an LDR, the relationship is built on different things to build closeness. Obviously I wasn't addressing your experience sourgirl, judging by your response. ;)
 
FlameKat : I did not equate sex with romantic love.


My response to RP differs from my response to the OP, hence making sure I directed my points.


Cuddling and intimacy with romantic feelings is easily a part of romantic love. Please dont insert words in my responses that aren`t there.

She doesn`t even want to KISS her partner. Most people who are still having romantic love feelings, want to kiss, cuddle, enjoy each other in a way that differs from the affection they use on a family member, or a friend, etc.
 
There ar people on here and that I know of that would have sex if they were around their partner physically, but as they have an LDR, the relationship is built on different things to build closeness. Obviously I wasn't addressing your experience sourgirl, judging by your response. ;)

Actually I was speaking in general terms. I don`t think (juding by the OP, who is the POINT here.) they can all be looped together. It`s a stretch.

Edit to Add : almost 4 pm, so you will have to argue this out, without me, I gotta fly. :)

the OP is angry at herself for not feeling something,...think about it.
 
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@Sourgirl - I did not insert words into your response that aren't there.

perhaps your own definition of romantic love could be defined... the OP was talking about physical intimacy... you mentioned sex in your response to RP and then followed it by stating to the OP that if her definition of a partner was based in romance then she was doing her fiance no favours...

she stated categorically that she is very in love with her fiance just, without any physical attraction at all, that the physical intimacy 'feels wrong'...

to me, that simply means their relationship needs new definitions, not that he isnt a partner nor that she isn't partner material for him... it could be quite liberating if she can get over her sense of loss for intimacy and can find a new way for her to show that intimacy to him
 
@Sourgirl - I did not insert words into your response that aren't there.

perhaps your own definition of romantic love could be defined... the OP was talking about physical intimacy... you mentioned sex in your response to RP and then followed it by stating to the OP that if her definition of a partner was based in romance then she was doing her fiance no favours...

she stated categorically that she is very in love with her fiance just, without any physical attraction at all, that the physical intimacy 'feels wrong'...

to me, that simply means their relationship needs new definitions, not that he isnt a partner nor that she isn't partner material for him... it could be quite liberating if she can get over her sense of loss for intimacy and can find a new way for her to show that intimacy to him

This is a good point, but what I think SG was trying to infer is that if any intimacy between the OP and this man feels wrong, even KISSING, then maybe her feelings of love for this man are not romantic, but platonic. I have very deep feelings of love for many women in my life who I could not possibly stomach the idea of kissing - my mother would be the obvious example, but this extends to good friends as well.
 
replyness

ok,

firstly thank you so much for the responses.

patricks sexual problems started happening 3 years ago. they coincide with his depression/weight gain. sex prior to that was sex( it was good ). so no it isn't something that came up when D(my soul mate) came back into my life.

@redpepper - thank you for pointing out that there is more to a relationship and relationships don't have to involve sex.

Patrick is great. he is good with anything. he finds happiness in my happiness. i just miss the happiness in expressing my love to him. its something i used to enjoy and now it turns me off. the loss hurts me. i have given him leeway to look elsewhere but at this time in his life it probably will be pretty impossible.

everything is changing in my life and it is kinda overwhelming. i just got unengaged and that hurt but i understand it a little. D moved in with us(we desperately needed a roommate and he desperately needed a place. D and Patrick are becoming good friends...but are having problems learning to. communicate. but like i said both are really really amazing guys.

Patrick is going through a rough patch himself due to personal issues as well as financial due to being back in school. but having d live with us has solved the financial issues. i digress though

i still feel terrible about not physically wanting Patrick. This is something that started out with me disliking kissing about 3 years ago till now which it is full fledged feeling of wrongness when i do it. (kiss or try to be intimate) i don't think there is a way to teach myself to desire my man again ( i wish i could)(he is happy with whatever) i love him, and i am in the start of rebuilding the relationship with D. but i love D as well.

the really hard thing though is with our current families. my family absolutely hates D. They wont support my relationship and want children from Patrick and me. I don't know how to explain to them that this probably wont be happening and i wont' be getting married to him. the situation is all around complicated. i know it is worth it just so many changes in such a short time.

i still feel guilty about Patrick though. i wish that i could want him that way again. maybe it isn't something that is permanent. but i am just kinda lost with the sadness i feel. both my partners are happy.

anyway all my best wishes to people. if people want to talk on a more personal level i have the Facebook thing.

tanya
 
So 3 years ago, Patrick started having ED problems, depression, and weight-gain (how much are we talking? 10 lbs? 100?), while at the exact same time, you suddenly found yourself disliking any intimacy with him at all...

What happened first? The dislike of intimacy or the problem? Does your dislike of that intimacy stem from the problem?

I seriously hope he's seeking treatment for this, it sounds to me like it could be a major thyroid problem or worse. Seriously, if he hasn't spoken with a doctor (and a good one at that) about this, he needs to do so immediately. It sounds to me like he's got a major hormonal imbalance and that is causing other problems like the weight gain and depression. ED can be caused by a LOT of different issues, and most of them are quite serious.
 
replyness

as to patrick's erectile problems he has gone to the doctor. he was tested for thyroid and he doesn't have the numbers to be diagnosed. in the last year he gained 100 pounds. they have run tests and he is healthy in all the emergency kind of things.

as to the intimacy no it doesn't stem from his weight gain. i never have liked kissing him. i however love cuddling and sleeping together.


@flamekat i want to thank you for pointing out that maybe a new definition of a relationship with Patrick might be needed. i agree.

i am just having problems wrapping my head around it. my past belief was that people you love and want to marry should have some physical connection. i say past because the fates are teaching me a new lesson. i just wish i could be better for him. to me i think he deserves so much more. but i love him and don't want to loose him. its a good thing that i don't mind him being with others. but i dont' think that this might be possible with his body being the way it is .
 
Not to turn this into a thread about Patrick, but it sounds to me like he's having major health problems that are not being properly addressed. A 27 year old man with ED who has gained 100 lbs in the past YEAR is far from undiagnosable, regardless of numbers. I've had friends with not totally dissimilar health problems related to endocrine dysfunction who were able to finally get help from an ACAM physician. If he hasn't had a second opinion, or even if he has, I recommend looking on their website to find a doctor near you who may have a different outlook on things. I myself began suffering from some adrenal fatigue and other problems which were solved by Dr. Mora in the Sacramento area. Don't accept "there's nothing we can do" as an answer for problems like this. /tangent.

Interesting that intimacy has been distasteful for a long time. Agreed that there may need to be some redefining of relationships - I hope that's something he can handle, but from the sound of things, he's a very kind and understanding person. Best of luck to the three of you.
 
as to patrick's erectile problems he has gone to the doctor. he was tested for thyroid and he doesn't have the numbers to be diagnosed. in the last year he gained 100 pounds. they have run tests and he is healthy in all the emergency kind of things.

I would urge him to find a new doctor and try again. Most people take more than a year to put on 100lbs unless there is some underlying condition. All these things seem conected somehow. I have noticed that some men have a hard time revealing everything to their doctors (or they forget 1/2 of what they need to tell them). If he is willing, go with him.

It sounds like Patrick is OK with the way things are between the 3 of you. Find what things make him feel loved and do those. I imagine it took a lot of courage for him to accept his physical limitations and he probably feel just as guilty that things aren't the way they were. It will take work on your part to make sure you don't neglect one for the other.
 
I've had many checks and so far nothing substantial :-( My next step is seeing a second doc at a different clinic in the new year.

I did start on anti-depressants just before the weight gain started, but i was also under high stress from financial issues at the time (mortgage broker messed up hardcore), and stress --> belly fat. 1+1=window...

@SvartSvensk: no ACAM here in Canada :-(

either way, it's an issue i def need to address (along with school, money, and the newer dynamics of everything)...
 
I've had many checks and so far nothing substantial :-( My next step is seeing a second doc at a different clinic in the new year.

I did start on anti-depressants just before the weight gain started, but i was also under high stress from financial issues at the time (mortgage broker messed up hardcore), and stress --> belly fat. 1+1=window...

@SvartSvensk: no ACAM here in Canada :-(

either way, it's an issue i def need to address (along with school, money, and the newer dynamics of everything)...

All this information is great to have. Thanks to both parties for chipping in with more to say. When both parties chime in (in a non-defensive way) that speaks volumes.

SvartSvensk, hit the nail on the head. I was going entirely off the OP`s words.
Thank you Svart for clarifying.

Some people get very co-dependent, even though the actual relationship has died, or they have grown apart. With more info, neither of you strike me to be that way.

Patrick- your symptoms and issues are a cause for concern. I think right now it`s imperative that you keep pushing different doctors to help you figure out what is going on. SOMETHING is causing all this......

Once you two have some kind of answer, or even a direction to focus on, you`ll be able to look at the rest, without so much pressure or feeling angry at yourself.

From your own words ( I guess I need to make that disclaimer now. ) I see you both feel a whole lot of pressure from various sources, on various topics. School, money, health, new relationships (even ones that are good and healthy).....can influence how we show 'love'.

What things have you tried, to take the pressure off yourselves, so you can connect with each other ?
 
Pat, some anti-depressants can cause or add to symptoms like you are experiencing, and with pharmaceutical influences involved, problems can be hidden and more difficult to diagnose. I didn't realize you were in Canada - that is actually a good thing for you, as you won't have to deal with the expense of medical care in order to get to the bottom of your health issues! Depending on where in Canada you are, I may even be able to recommend someone to you, a good friend of mine (the same person who turned me on to ACAM here in the States) knows quite a few people medical community, particularly near Vancouver. You may also want to do some searching on the forums over at t-nation.com - there are a lot of knowledgable people on that site (I know, it's a silly bodybuilding site, but they have a lot of people who are focused on fitness and athleticism as well), many medical professionals, and plenty of men who have been right where you are and are currently recovering. If you post some numbers from some of your tests and share some details there, they might be able to point you in a better direction than myself.
 
OK, I'm thinking seriously of changing my user name on here to "House Pedant"! frogprincess21ca, I've read through the 3 threads that you've started on here and I have to comment on this contradiction:
we love sleeping next to each other and cuddling. [...] i don't physically want Patrick. i feel terrible. [...] i still feel the loss of the ability to love Patrick in a intimate way.
You DO "love Patrick in a intimate way"! You DO "physically want Patrick"! What's more intimate than "sleeping next to each other and cuddling"??? So you don't want to kiss him, so you don't want hot sex. As the Spanish say, "¡No te comas el coco!" [Don't eat your head!]

Frankly (and speaking personally here as a Class A1 Pervert), if I had to choose between a relationship of hot sex with no cuddling then going home to sleep alone, and one of cuddling and sleeping / waking up together but without the sex... I'd choose the latter. But DON'T let me tempt you down the path of perversion!

Seriously, you 2 love each other. You love each other physically. You just don't happen to get it on in a way that our society has brainwashed us into believing the ONLY proof of sexual love.
I don't know, but I suspect that you don't like kissing because it's an obvious prelude to other stuff that doesn't turn you on.

I could play the therapist here and ask if your distaste for sex started when Pat "couldn't get it up" or if it was the other way around. It might just be possible that one of you is afraid of unenthusiastic response from the other (= failure) (= rejection) and so a vicious circle has built up.

I don't want to downplay the physical / medical problems here, Patrick needs to get supportive (concerned) advice.

But don't overdo the worry -> stress -> pressure on the sex front. Relax! Enjoy the cuddling! Don't eat your heads!
 
Damn! I wish someone had warned me against eating my head! >burp!<
 
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