New to Poly Amory - Experiences, Thoughts, Feelings and Questions

What is our true nature?

As children did we every hold on to Old issues or worry about the Future?
Children live in the Moment. In the present...

They have within them always the following energies naturally (unless ofcourse exceptional circumstances)..
- Love - Natural affinity & curiosity for most things, people etc.
- Peace - Always at peace
- Joy - Always have a smile on their faces.. Even if they cry or get upset.. They forget about it soon.. Or its realy easy to move them forward to the next moment.. even if they get hurt..(fall down etc).. We can call it distracting them from injury but really.. The physical pain might still be there.. But..

They DO NO IDENTIFY with it.. They move forward past those moments.. :)

That is our TRUE NATURE. Within us..

Its these moments we seek.. in everything we do. Anything & everythin enjoyable is about getting IMMERSED.. INTO THAT MOMENT.. No past or future.

Love, Sex, Orgasm, Beauty, Art, Music, Dance, Children, Playing, Sports, Meditation etc..

When we are lost in that moment, living completely... we do not think past or future..

Its the past or future thoughts that bring misery.

Expectations of how something SHOULD BE.. v/s HOW IT IS.. brings misery.

What I am trying to get to is... When you are FREE to BE.. YOU.. without having to BEND to or CHANGE to or CATER to.. Someone elses boundaries or expecataions.. or behaviors.. Non judgementally completely accepting & accepted.

Even in the notion of love.. with someone..

Try & remember how you felt.. best times... & worst times in a relationship..

Its when you cant BE.. because someone wants you to be a certain way... or you are in automatic inner conflict because you're stopping yourself from BEING.. to PLEASE someone else's Need & Expectation.

Isnt this why, initially people are in love (or think they are in love.. because they are just BEING & ACCEPTING & consc expands).. they ACCEPT people as THEY ARE.. completely.. and then when the CONSC contracts.. they start to nit pick the other...
labeling & judging.. and later even being hard on yourself & judging..

Where is the love & where is the freedome to BE and Let BE?

I dont know if you get my notion of Love? This is what I know is LOVE.
 
As children did we every hold on to Old issues or worry about the Future?
Children live in the Moment. In the present...

.

Children are not near so simple. A lot of people think they are becasue they don't take the time to really communicate with them. They have future concerns just like adults. The scope of them is just different.

I am glad you have such a solid understanding of what love is to you though my friend..that must be a nice feeling :)
 
Children are not near so simple. A lot of people think they are becasue they don't take the time to really communicate with them. They have future concerns just like adults. The scope of them is just different.

I am glad you have such a solid understanding of what love is to you though my friend..that must be a nice feeling :)

We have messed up our children. They are smarter much sooner because of exposure.. But are they happier? We rob them of their innocence.

We rob ourselves of our own innocence.

I am talking True Nature.. not Socially & Parental programmed nature.

We begin by teaching them to WORRY.. Consciously or unconsciously.. They learn from us. Are not born with a Training Manual.

We change their true nature. We need to learn from them, unlearn what we have learnt so that we can go back to our true nature.

Do you even realize that the child does not know how to identify ITSELF by its OWN NAME.

We TEACH the child to RESPOND to the "NAME".

You are "NAME".
Child: "My name is NAME".

That is the beginning of the Ego. The mind.. and the separateness..

Then entire life is lived in building up this ego as the society programs us and wants us to do.

Children smile a lot.. At times for no REASON. It could be as simple as the sun shining, feeling a cooling breeze, a splash of water...
why?

INNOCENCE.

Not bound by Societies parameters & programming of what should make you happy and what should not..

When we go back to that source... That is true happiness.. Does not come from the outside... Not from anyone else... Not even from the "I" or the "ego".

From within... :)

Master says... Innocence & Smile of a Child, Awareness & Responsibility of an Adult :D.

Sign off with this song I remember...

"...The return to your Self, Return to Innocence" - Enigma.
 
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We TEACH the child to RESPOND to the "NAME".

You are "NAME".
Child: "My name is NAME".

That is the beginning of the Ego. The mind.. and the separateness..

Then entire life is lived in building up this ego as the society programs us and wants us to do.

Much of what you say is true, OneSoul, but you leave out a possibility that I think is crucial. That possibility is the realization and experience of one's unique individual self, along with his/her name (life story, etc.), in terms of distinctness without separation--, individuation and autonomy without being divided from the cosmic wholeness which you call "Oneness".

There is an interesting episode in the intersection of "spirituality" and "psychology" that involves a certain Dr. Freud. An admirer of Freud wrote a letter to Freud, saying "By religious feeling, what I mean—altogether independently of any dogma, any Credo, any organization of the Church, any Holy Scripture, any hope for personal salvation, etc.—the simple and direct fact of a feeling of 'the eternal' (which may very well not be eternal, but simply without perceptible limits, and as if oceanic). This feeling is in truth subjective in nature. It is a contact."

http://www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/oceanic-feeling

Freud had no such experience of his own (not consciously, anyway! Repressed?), and tended to associate these sorts of experiences, including the often associated experience of "oneness" -- or of being identical with all of existence -- as a holdover from infancy: infantile, as he called it.

Myself? My life has been deeply influenced by "the oceanic experience" -- the occasional emersion in the certainty that I am not separate, but, if anything, merely distinct. I am James. My Jamesness no more separates me from all of existence than a particular leaf on a tree is separated from the tree, or a drop of water is separated from the ... well, the ocean.

The "spiritual" task we have before us is simply to deepen our sense of non-separation from all of existence -- and all other persons, animals, etc... -- while also deepening our experience and appreciation of our uniqueness, individulaity, and human personhood -- including our name and biography. This is the much less "infantile" approach than an all-dissolving "Oneness".

So I shall end with a greeting and a word of departure in India.: Namaste!
 
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Do you even realize that the child does not know how to identify ITSELF by its OWN NAME.

.

Not to sound confrontational, but I'd love to know more of your story my friend. I have a child so I know lots about them. It's easy not to get too existential when you watch them grow. They are not some mythical animal running through feilds with thier hands in the air giggling eternally. They are real human beings with all the emotions biologically given to them. Thier environment and experiences do shape how they deal with those emotions but they would have them regardless. They are people.
 
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Not to sound confrontational, but I'd love to know more of your story my friend. I have a child so I know lots about them. It's easy not to get too existential when you watch them grow. They are not some mythical animal running through feilds with thier hands in the air giggling eternally. They are real human beings with all the emotions biologically given to them. Thier environment and experiences do shape how they deal with those emotions but they would have them regardless. They are people.

This. OneSoul, I have a child and have worked with young children half of my life, and have a degree in Developmental psych. While I agree with you that most children DO have love, joy, and peace within them that is not ALL they have. They have anger, fear, frustration, sadness. Or at least the CAPACITY for all these things-both good and bad. A baby is born pure id. S/he has a need (food, to be cleaned, comfort, pain) and will cry until that need is met with no concern for the wants or needs or emotions of the caretakers. As a toddler a child is the center of his/her own universe. Most smile often-but they smile because they are pleased, not necessarily because they LOVE. They care that others are pleased with them because it means they get attention and positive feedback, not because they LOVE this person pleased with them. We see a child smiling and associate that with love and happiness because we know that is what WE feel when WE smile. Children occasionally smile for no other reason than to test facial muscles, no different than making sounds to practice vocalization.

It is us, as adults, who are responsible to take the CAPACITY for love and joy and peace and to bring it out in the child-and to subsequently do our best to counter the CAPACITY for anger and sadness and fear. Relationships are the same way. We all come into them with our own natural and environmentally programmed emotions-both positive and negative. It is through communication, compassion, compromise, and commitment to eachother within those relationships that we grow together to form positive connections rather than negative.

"What I am trying to get to is... When you are FREE to BE.. YOU.. without having to BEND to or CHANGE to or CATER to.. Someone elses boundaries or expecataions.. or behaviors.. Non judgementally completely accepting & accepted."

This (couldn't get the quotes to work) idea is beautiful in theory. But IMO this is not likely to lead to a fulfilling, lifelong, loving relationship. As humans with all our own delicate emotions and our own boundaries and our own expectations (and we ALL have them to some level), we naturally have to bend to those of our loves, just as they have to bend to ours. I'm not talking about changing who you are fundamentally or immersing yourself so far in another you are lost. I'm talking the day-to-day compromises. I'm talking being there for a love when they are hurt, angry, insecure...just as you would hope they would be there for you. Love is not all about butterflies, flowers, candy hearts, and smiles. It is about taking the good with the bad and still loving through it all.
 
JRiver - I think you are as close as it gets on these forums to what I have experienced.

Mono & XYZ - I dont see the value in dissecting the psych analysis you have written. I have done the same for years.. Its the intellectual analytical way... Excuse me if you feel that I am responding to every specific argument point you have made head on.

Proving oneself right & someone else wrong is the greatest kick to the ego... I tend to get into that, but then become aware... each person is different.. each his own.

I am not here to prove my point or outline qualifications & depth of human behavioral analysis nor outline how many psych books, how many children & how many varied people & companies I have worked with across the globe for various Fortune 10, 20 companeies. ( I know I just did that.. lol ...)
I am here to share an experience without using any of the above as a "credibility" or "qualification" statement. Which is why I did not do it earlier.

I am not saying I am better or better off than you or anyone else... We all have our journey, experience & shifts in perception & awareness.

Moving forward...

The mind cannot perceive or fathom what the heart has experienced. (Apples & Oranges)

With no disrespect the only thing I can say is.. Maybe you have yet to experience unconditional bliss devoid of external circumstances that 'please' you. Yet to experience that true nature.. or become aware of it when it does happen. We start with that true nature, lose it & then crave it all our lives in all things, actions, thoughts, emotions, relationships, activities & people.

If you think a so called beautiful scene in nature 'pleases' you because the colors are vivid etc etc.. Then thats true to some level.. But that is later intellectual evaluation of an experience with logical reasoning "Why is this so captivating?"

There are times when you're captured by a sight and there are no thoughts, you're not thinking... Beautiful or Colors or Captivating.. in fact the mind is not at all LABELING the experience. There are no thoughts & labels about IT... No attention or thoughts of the past or future.. of remembering the sight or of having seen something similar.. Of being a human being who enjoys such sights..

If you think children laugh & smile more because they are 'pleased' by things we do.. then I am sorry to say in my humble opinion you've read way too much freudian psychology.. and I doubt if Freud was a happy person.

Maybe that is why children are happier because they carry lesser sense of "ego" "Identity" built upon past & future. They build catles in the air for that moment .. and then let it go in the next moment..

They are not a mythical creature... They are as real as it gets.. If you want to see a glimpse of god.. then after an Enlightened Master they are the closest commonly occuring observable phenomenon.

They bring you INTO the moment, into their play... You forget all worries of past & future no matter how troubling.

For me this did not happen until the last few years.. Its been a journey that cannot happen for anyone until it is time. I've ignored it for years before.. then it was high time.
As the Master says.. "Do not try to explain your experiences. They will not understand"

In words the space can be articulated but its like articulating the taste of asian food to a guy who has had nothing but mashed potatoes all his life & nothing else. (Just an analogy).

Its like explaining love & peace to a terrorist, someone who is one because their life experiences had none.

Like the rush of bungee jumping to someone who has never experienced any such thing..

Its the Archimedes sense of Eureka/ Aha! moment for the heart & the soul.

In terms of caring for someone else.. and supporting them. ...You would do it and anything & everything from the heart out of your own choosing.. own feeling own drive.
Not because someone tells you "you dont do X, so you do not love me".

Those that need to be "proved" to that you love them over & over again do not understand love.

e.g. If someone tells you "I love you", you doubt it. If someone tells you "I hate you" you believe it. Its the nature of the mind to DOUBT. Especially to DOUBT the positive.

Love is not ... You do X (my expectation) = You love me. If you dont do X = You dont love me. ..Vice versa. That is NOT love. That is transaction. You give me X & I will give you Y... Doing X out of your heart is fine.. doing it because of a demand.. / conditional "If you X then you love me" is ... Transactional.
 
Discovering or realizing that love is what we are rather than something we need to get is one of the more essential or basic "mystical" experiences, and I think probably a lot of us in this forum have had that bell ring in their lives at some time or another -- and then we forget, the insight was had but the force of it dropped away. This would seem to be a common enough experience.

Perhaps all we need to do is to practice? That is, we may need to practice being love, rather than striving after getting it? Maybe this is how we can overcome this sense that there just isn't enough love?

Maybe questions are more important than answers? Students more important than teachers?
 
I haven't been trying to psychoanalyze you or tear you down or prove you wrong. I have been trying to understand what you are talking about and how you got there. And to do that, I present my feelings and ask you questions. Yet you do not really respond to what is said coherently, nor answer direct questions with direct answers-from anyone. You instead make assumptions that others are somehow trying to prove you wrong, which we are not. You write again about having been somehow enlightened but do not really add anything new or clear up what is being misunderstood. To be funny about it (and honestly not meant as a put down) you write in such a way as I spoke in my 20s when first trying ecstasy. :)

If you have experienced some spiritual awakening, then I'm happy for you. I have looked into the eyes of my child and experienced pure love and know I would love him even if he grew up to put a gun to my head. It is unconditional. However, I don't have to accept everything he does as a condition of my love for him. I help to shape his life and his actions and his reactions so that he is prepared for the hardships and relationships and dangers of the world. This doesn't mean I love him less, but in fact I love him more because I happily shoulder the weight of that responsibility. What you SEEM to be talking about is unconditional love meaning unconditional acceptance. And, as I said before, while I think that is a beautiful notion, I don't see it as leading to a lasting love. If you are only talking about love IN THE MOMENT, love that does not last, I have experienced such things as well where there is no thought behind the peace I feel. The beauty of a sunset, the joy of a cool breeze on a hot day, the smile of a baby, the yapping of a puppy. But that, to me, is not true love. It is simply a passing moment of peace and joy. Appreciated for no other reason than its existence, but not the essence of love. When I love someone I want to hold on to them, to keep them but without possessing them. Holding on to love and possessing it are not one and the same. I do not love my child or my husband only in the moment they make me smile and forget them in the next. I love with all my heart all the time, even when they anger and hurt me. THAT, IMO, is the true measure of love. We may not mean such different things, but I do find you difficult to understand and, so, I can't really tell.
 
Wanted to add my experience

I have been seeing someone for the past six months in a sexual relationship with someone who told me from the beginning that he is not monogamous. I chose to ignore this and proceed with the relationship anyway. We had some great, fun times and he is very loving when he's with me. But every so often reminders of his polyamory would come up and I would then attempt to "break up" with him. (Inevitably and eventually I came back.) This weekend I encountered evidence that he is and has been seeing someone else all along, and he's bringing her on a trip with him next month. I am hurt and consumed with jealousy and have now broken up with him again, hopefully for good. I just can't deal with the lifestyle, though I understand why he is in it... it's just not good for me. It's crushingly painful for me and yet I know it will be hard for me to forget him and move on - though I need to. This is where I'm at right now. :mad: :(
 
I'm sorry NotPolly. The poly lifestyle is really not for everyone. And it can be crushing when you love someone who is polyamorous knowing you can never be. But you probably did the best thing for the both of you. He is free to love as he is meant to and so are you. Neither of you would have been happy remaining in a relationship clouded with jealousy and pain. Please try to take comfort in the fact that being unable to accept his poly lifestyle is not wrong on your part if you are truly a mono person. I must commend him though on being honest from the beginning. None of this means he loved you less or you loved him less. Some people are just not compatible. Good luck to you in moving on and finding the love you are searching for.

If you want to share more of your story please introduce yourself in a new thread in the "Introductions" section. You'll get advice and support there, I'm sure.
 
NotPolly,

What do you ultimately want? It seems like you still want to be with this guy and maybe see yourself going back to him. Are you here to try to understand polyamory better in case that happens? Are you trying to find ways to deal with jealousy or want to understand his mindset better?

XYZ123 is right in that poly is not for everyone. Maybe you are not suited for it. What do you think?
 
Discovering or realizing that love is what we are rather than something we need to get is one of the more essential or basic "mystical" experiences, and I think probably a lot of us in this forum have had that bell ring in their lives at some time or another -- and then we forget, the insight was had but the force of it dropped away. This would seem to be a common enough experience.

Perhaps all we need to do is to practice? That is, we may need to practice being love, rather than striving after getting it? Maybe this is how we can overcome this sense that there just isn't enough love?

Maybe questions are more important than answers? Students more important than teachers?

Ah! I'm glad someone here gets it. For me it started with a Satori :) and I hoped to find it again and then 2.5 years later the journey began...

I guess polyamory is the more extended search for that True Nature.

I haven't been trying to psychoanalyze you or tear you down or prove you wrong.

I know :) Its not the YOU - ME equation. Its the "analysis" v/s "experience". Can you describe love in words? No. It only means something to another person who has experienced it as well.. and can relate to it.. via the word "love". Hence, I fail to give you logical answers to what I cannot describe, and what I describe foes not fall within your or most peoples and even my former framework of understanding.

Its like talking Quantum Physics to an african tribesman (no dis respect intended).


I have been trying to understand what you are talking about and how you got there. And to do that, I present my feelings and ask you questions.

Yet you do not really respond to what is said coherently, nor answer direct questions with direct answers-from anyone. You instead make assumptions that others are somehow trying to prove you wrong, which we are not.

Unfortunately, not all questions have answers in words. In fact, I had tons of questions and still keep having. What's funny is when the experience happens.. the questions just vanish in thin air.. the mind chatter & doubts & questions.. dissolve... All u have is a feeling..

I respect and commend your efforts & commitment in trying to understand. almost anyone would be unable to give that answer to you in words. When you experience it ... the words will fall short when u begin to explain to others.

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Funny thing is which is why.. when I have questions for the Master (or like most people had for their Masters.. ) he never gives a straight answer.. he makes you realize in an experience that is beyond words.

I've mentally complained at him for this.. But I realize
 
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You write again about having been somehow enlightened but do not really add anything new or clear up what is being misunderstood.

Not enlightened, but I've begun to realize what I never did before. The unknown & unmanifested cannot be described. Even if I was to sit in person and explain to you unless you've experienced something close it would be hard. Getting through on the forum... probably tougher.

What I can do is.. make you god damn curious about it that you go looking for it... what you've really been lookin for ... more than everything you think you are looking for :)

JMartin - Care to lend a hand here :) ??


To be funny about it (and honestly not meant as a put down) you write in such a way as I spoke in my 20s when first trying ecstasy. :)

It is. You hit the bullseye. I've never had E, but I figure its like having natural E without the side effects... and you'd probably be unable to describe it to a catholic minister (no disrespect again) or soccer mom or grandma.

If you have experienced some spiritual awakening, then I'm happy for you. I have looked into the eyes of my child and experienced pure love and know I would love him even if he grew up to put a gun to my head. It is unconditional. However, I don't have to accept everything he does as a condition of my love for him. I help to shape his life and his actions and his reactions so that he is prepared for the hardships and relationships and dangers of the world. This doesn't mean I love him less, but in fact I love him more because I happily shoulder the weight of that responsibility. What you SEEM to be talking about is unconditional love meaning unconditional acceptance. And, as I said before, while I think that is a beautiful notion, I don't see it as leading to a lasting love. If you are only talking about love IN THE MOMENT, love that does not last, I have experienced such things as well where there is no thought behind the peace I feel. The beauty of a sunset, the joy of a cool breeze on a hot day, the smile of a baby, the yapping of a puppy.

But that, to me, is not true love. It is simply a passing moment of peace and joy.

// Someday, you will realize otherwise.

Appreciated for no other reason than its existence, but not the essence of love.

// Someday, you will realize otherwise.

When I love someone I want to hold on to them, to keep them but without possessing them. Holding on to love and possessing it are not one and the same. I do not love my child or my husband only in the moment they make me smile and forget them in the next. I love with all my heart all the time, even when they anger and hurt me.

- I never said that you shouldnt love them when they are crying etc.. I gave a comparative 'brings u into the moment of truth' example.

THAT, IMO, is the true measure of love. We may not mean such different things, but I do find you difficult to understand and, so, I can't really tell.

Your context of love is an 'action' & 'verb'. Doing.
The 'love' I talk about is 'your true nature'. There is no doing.

Your love is still defined as action & relationship between 2 separate parties.. the illusion of separation and the notion of 'doing' i.e. taking action.

Sat-Chit-Ananda
Truth-Consciousness-Bliss :)
 
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I have been seeing someone for the past six months in a sexual relationship with someone who told me from the beginning that he is not monogamous. I chose to ignore this and proceed with the relationship anyway. We had some great, fun times and he is very loving when he's with me. But every so often reminders of his polyamory would come up and I would then attempt to "break up" with him. (Inevitably and eventually I came back.) This weekend I encountered evidence that he is and has been seeing someone else all along, and he's bringing her on a trip with him next month. I am hurt and consumed with jealousy and have now broken up with him again, hopefully for good. I just can't deal with the lifestyle, though I understand why he is in it... it's just not good for me. It's crushingly painful for me and yet I know it will be hard for me to forget him and move on - though I need to. This is where I'm at right now. :mad: :(

Have you ever been in such an equation before? Probably not.

All I'll say is Poly is hard to come to terms with... It is a reality breaking paradigm.

I have barely begun to see why it exists and is so natural.

It may be NATURAL, but given double digit years of PROGRAMMING.. its NOT EASY to deal with based on our inherent programming & mindset.

All I'd say is, maybe moving on is what you should do. But, what if this is an opportunity to EXPAND your horizons and go through a tough patch of jealousy and insecurity to come out stronger and more secure.

Why do I say this? I have been through similar scenario. Left me very lost... unable to comprehend the conflict within..

Maybe if you were able to get to know the other person and form a TRIANGLE instead of a V, where the other person seems as if they are eating part of your share (jealousy) it might be where they are adding to the connections.

This is probably why I am curious to figure out how to get people to recognize the reality and naturalness of poly and the swing of feelings from poly to mono and back to poly.

Part of the reason I feel is that even in Poly, you can only be connected with one person at a time.. Truely connected.

You could be in bed with 2 women switching back n forth but you'd still connect only one at a time.

Which is why I am guessing a V can be a bit unnerving while a Triangle can become a circle of trust and increased love.

Either ways, good luck. Maybe if you had another add on lover you might not have been burnt.. in fact you might be lost in the ... omg which guy do I like / love really.. I cant see both of them.. or maybe in Poly u can
 
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