Wife's bf's wife has a cuckquean and SM setup. Dysfunctional or am I being a dumbass?

I would talk to her if I were you, KP. If you're wrong and everything is healthy, well, no harm done, but if you're right then maybe you could really help her. Just take her out for coffee and lay out your concerns in the most respectful way you can.
 
So I'm going to take a hypothetical situation with you and your wife as the co-stars!
Bob is a member of your social group. He senses that mrspod is not happy. He knows that your marriage isn't at the top of its game. He even has seen you with your secondary partner, and sees how much kinder and more loving you are to them. When he watches you and mrspod interact he senses tension.. From an outsider POV, Bob considers there is something off about your relationship.

He hears that you've been posting on a forum where you comment that mrspod is lazy, that you don't trust her, that you're apathetic about your relationship, that you're emotionally neglecting her. Now Bob is a counselor, and he's seen emotional abuse before. He is uncomfortable with the way you treat her, he doesn't think a healthy relationship should be like that, he’s probably right.

Bob asks mrspod about your relationship. She doesn't directly answer his more pointed personal questions. She has stated to him that even though he doesn't see what she gets out of the relationship, it gives her X, Y and Z. He even asked mrspod's boyfriend about it. Her boyfriend thinks your dynamic is not ideal, but he didn’t bring up any concerns about it being abuse and thinks Bob shouldn’t pry any deeper than he has.

Nevertheless he feels mrspod is suffering from your actions. Even though she has shown no desire to discuss her marriage or confide in him, he feels that it may be more subtle than some cases, but that you are emotionally abusing her and he wants to help.


So what should Bob do?


The difference here is that you say she has volunteered that she GETS to feel inferior, gets off on the humiliation. If your wife actually has had sex in front of her, and didn’t feel that anything there was off enough that she was concerned, I would guess no matter how squicky their dynamic is to you, she has chosen and even wants it.

So sure, tell her that you are concerned that she is being treated badly or whatever it is you want to tell her, say you are there if she ever wants to talk, and leave it at that.

OR you could directly tell her husband that you are uncomfortable with some of the public behaviors and talk to him about them. Maybe nobody has been brave enough to broach the subject, and if it’s consensual humiliation, after realizing he is offending he’ll go back to keeping it in private.
 
I don't necessarily think it's healthy

It's about as healthy as any other abusive relationship. Probably less healthy since the person being abused has less inclination to seek help. I guess it can be a bit more "grey" since it floats their boat. Then again, boat floating can involve some cruel and destructive stuff. I'm thinking of the Armin Meiwes case specifically.

Probably isn't the thread for a complex moral and ethical discussion on the extremes of human sexuality.

I would talk to her if I were you, KP. If you're wrong and everything is healthy, well, no harm done, but if you're right then maybe you could really help her. Just take her out for coffee and lay out your concerns in the most respectful way you can.

Good idea. That's what I'm thinking.

Maybe one of his rules is that they can't talk about it? Not the smartest rule to have but it's possible.
 
I agree with Anneintherain about this. Runic Wolf and I have this playful bickering that we laugh about and for the heck of it will start arguing randomly in the checkout aisle of stores, but a friend approached us because she thought that we were seriously fighting and that something was wrong in our relationship because she didn't get our dynamic. She saw us all sweet and romantic at a wedding in Sept and asked for more of that when she is around, so we are now trying to make sure that we at least are considerate of her feelings.
 
So I'm going to take a hypothetical situation with you and your wife as the co-stars!
Bob is a member of your social group. He senses that mrspod is not happy. He knows that your marriage isn't at the top of its game. He even has seen you with your secondary partner, and sees how much kinder and more loving you are to them. When he watches you and mrspod interact he senses tension.. From an outsider POV, Bob considers there is something off about your relationship.

He hears that you've been posting on a forum where you comment that mrspod is lazy, that you don't trust her, that you're apathetic about your relationship, that you're emotionally neglecting her. Now Bob is a counselor, and he's seen emotional abuse before. He is uncomfortable with the way you treat her, he doesn't think a healthy relationship should be like that, he’s probably right.

Bob asks mrspod about your relationship. She doesn't directly answer his more pointed personal questions. She has stated to him that even though he doesn't see what she gets out of the relationship, it gives her X, Y and Z. He even asked mrspod's boyfriend about it. Her boyfriend thinks your dynamic is not ideal, but he didn’t bring up any concerns about it being abuse and thinks Bob shouldn’t pry any deeper than he has.

Nevertheless he feels mrspod is suffering from your actions. Even though she has shown no desire to discuss her marriage or confide in him, he feels that it may be more subtle than some cases, but that you are emotionally abusing her and he wants to help.


So what should Bob do?


The difference here is that you say she has volunteered that she GETS to feel inferior, gets off on the humiliation. If your wife actually has had sex in front of her, and didn’t feel that anything there was off enough that she was concerned, I would guess no matter how squicky their dynamic is to you, she has chosen and even wants it.

So sure, tell her that you are concerned that she is being treated badly or whatever it is you want to tell her, say you are there if she ever wants to talk, and leave it at that.

OR you could directly tell her husband that you are uncomfortable with some of the public behaviors and talk to him about them. Maybe nobody has been brave enough to broach the subject, and if it’s consensual humiliation, after realizing he is offending he’ll go back to keeping it in private.

Oh, I see what you did there.

You're probably right.

Maybe I'm just too old fashioned. Maybe I should just wash my hands of all of them. And vice versa.
 
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If his behavior makes you feel uncomfortable, talk to him. If the wife enjoys it, she isn't likely to want to discuss it or think that anything needs to change. You would be better off telling him that it makes you uncomfortable to see him treat a woman that way and want to make sure that it is only something he does with his wife and her request/ per their agreement.
 
I would also add that some people are emotional masochists. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, as long as they are aware of it and you respect that it is part of who they are.
 
If his behavior makes you feel uncomfortable, talk to him. If the wife enjoys it, she isn't likely to want to discuss it or think that anything needs to change. You would be better off telling him that it makes you uncomfortable to see him treat a woman that way and want to make sure that it is only something he does with his wife and her request/ per their agreement.

If what you and anne are suggesting is true than it's not really a problem.

Only reason I started spending more time with them was because I was worried about the wife's welfare.

Probably just cut them off.
 
It's about as healthy as any other abusive relationship.

Wow, no. If it really is consensual D/s that's safe and sane, it can actually be very healthy and fruitful for all involved. I know you said this may not be the place for a debate on this, but it's one thing to be concerned that a D/s relationship is masking dysfunction and another to conflate any D/s with dysfunction, which is what it sounded to me like you were doing here (did I misunderstand?).

Consciously choosing a dynamic that you both enjoy and that makes you a happier and more fulfilled you is worlds away from one person abusing another. Is that something that makes any sense to you? If not are you really the best person to try to help this woman or will you just be seeing her relationship as abuse no matter what, which will probably put her on the defensive and keep her from hearing any good points you might make?
 
You think that I'm bitter and angry. You also think that I have a huge chip on my shoulder when it comes to my wife and her relationship with her bf.

My guess is that you also think I'm an asshole. But that's just a guess.
Ah well, you have me all wrong. I'm not that rigid. And you're a stranger to me, anonymous name on a message board, so I have no reason to think you're an asshole, nor to attach any meaning to our interactions here. I just toss out my initial impressions, which can always change. I said that you seem proud, stubborn, and hurting -- possibly hurt more than anything, but I don't know. I said you have expressed some anger and bitterness -- that is not the same as saying you are an angry and bitter person. I did say you seemed hurt and carrying unconscious resentments, as many people do, including myself. As far as a chip on your shoulder, I'm not sure.

I think the whole situation with your wife and your opinion of your marriage as being "in the crapper" has you very disappointed. That's all. So when you say you don't care what she does, it's hard for me to swallow, because you seem very affected and/or perplexed by it. I thought that since things bother you about it, there was some concern. But I could be totally wrong.

I wonder: Why do you stay married to her?

As far as her bf and his treatment of his wife, it sounds like a 24/7 kind of agreement they have. Humiliation is really weird to me and I don't understand the appeal, as I like to feel respected and empowered when I am sexual with someone, and I'm not into D/s, so I defer to the experienced D/sers here.
 
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So when you say you don't care what she does, it's hard for me to swallow, because you seem very affected and/or perplexed by it.

I was more interested in the potentially abused woman. But now I think that I'm a dumbass that overreacted. It would've been a lot more convenient if bf's wife had been honest.

I wonder: Why do you stay married to her?

I stayed married to her because I loved her.

I stay married to her because we can't afford a divorce.

For all intents and purposes, we are married in name only. This is why I don't believe that I care about my wife's relationships. I don't have much of a relationship with my wife.

Your assessment of my psyche is fairly accurate. Just a few years behind. Replace "disappointment" with "regret" and you're on the money.
 
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I could've worded it better. :)

Anyway, I'm going to have a talk with my wife about this situation.

No, if I'd gone back and re-read the full post from HMA that you were quoting I would have gotten it. But enough of the apology-fest!

Talking with your wife definitely makes sense.
 
This is a bit off topic but - really staying married because you can't afford to get a divorce isn't the best reason to stay married - if you do want one so you're unentangled legally, and can cooperate on the details (and live in the US) legalzoom.com has raised their prices to $299, but I used them some years back when I got a divorce. It was relatively simple and straightforward.

No reason you can't divorce but stay living together for financial reasons and still raise your child together. Maybe that gives you a chance to think about if you mean it when you suggest that money is the only thing keeping you married. Maybe that gives you a chance to decide if it would be healthier for you and your wife to make it more clear about what place you both hold in each others lives.

OK, end of ad for a relatively cheap divorce service option.
 
OR you could directly tell her husband that you are uncomfortable with some of the public behaviors and talk to him about them. Maybe nobody has been brave enough to broach the subject, and if it’s consensual humiliation, after realizing he is offending he’ll go back to keeping it in private.

This is an important point in my book.

For the record, I do live in a D/s relationship but I'm a very private person. I get very uncomfortable when people show stuff about their sex lives in public to non-consenting third parties.

In D/s verbal abuse etc. can be defined as sex (at least for me it can) and so the people are actually having sex in front of others.

To me, consent is the most important factor in all relationships, and therefore not considering other people's feelings when engaging in sexual behavior in front of them is just plain rude.

So here is something I would definitely address (if I had to be in continuous contact with these people) even if the woman is fine with the abusive looking stuff.
 
I was more interested in the potentially abused woman. But now I think that I'm a dumbass that overreacted.

Back up a sec, mate. Where'd your inner boy scout go? If you have a sincere concern that the lady is being emotionally abused....

I have to admit, from your posts alone, I don't think I'd much like you as a person. That's okay though; I doubt you'd much like me, either. But you won some serious "like" points from me when you had resolved to speak up about what you saw not sitting right with you. Don't back out from that!

Not every person in an abusive relationship is or reacts the same. But it's not uncommon for the abused person to not see or recognize that they're abused. The societal tendancy for people NOT to speak up can contribute to the proverbial wool over the abused's eyes. Think of it: You're mistreated, manipulated, and hurt, and you've been confused and convinced that your abuser's actions are a-ok. Heck, even the people closest to you see it happen every day, and THEY never said anything, so it MUST be okay, right? Gotta put up with the abuse, because it's normal anyway....

Sometimes, just one person speaking up can make all the difference in the world. Even if the abused person refuses to see it right now (or sees it and for whatever reason remains in the situation), at least one person has validated his/her experience. You might not get results by talking to her, but at least you won't be just one more person who never said anything.

On the other hand, you're under no obligation to speak up. Any abuse perpetrated against her is solely the fault of the abuser, whether or not anyone speaks up. There is no onus on you to do something or say something. But if she IS in a bad situation., even if she doesn't "hear" you now, one day she might thank you....

If you DO speak up and there's really no abuse, at worst, you look like a caring dumbass and potentially hurt some pride. In MY book, that's not as weighty as the alternative.
 
If you DO speak up and there's really no abuse, at worst, you look like a caring dumbass and potentially hurt some pride. In MY book, that's not as weighty as the alternative.

Exactly.
 
I won't pretend to get it; wanting to be made to feel inferior to a newer partner inside a primary relationship. Though it is also a dynamic I'm aware some people are into.
Witnessing it could be troubling to the point of not only garnering concern for the person being treated inferior, but also I suspect because it is a concern I think many people coming from a mono relationship to a poly one have. "What if my partner ends up liking someone new better?"

Or in other words:

What if my primary partner wants me to be secondary to an outside partner? Such as in your other thread........

Unless your wife's primary relationship involved physical abuse, how is it really much different than what you and your wife are dealing with? Just that it involves more kink?
 
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