The Vandalin Saga...

vandalin

New member
Ok, so I had to come up with some sort of title and that kind of fit. This is to get my story out of the "New to Poly" thread as although I am still new to it, this is an old story that keeps continuing and is fully a life story which I intend to update as necessary.

So if you are not familiar with the backstory or need to find something said previously, here is the link to that topic. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466

And now to move forward with the new updates and to continue the story of Vandalin, Cajun, and Elric...
 
I was back in IL for a few days (in IL still until tomorrow actually) and Elric and I finally found a time to get together and try to just be friends. Our first non-dramarific meeting was for lunch today. I picked him up at work (not even 2 minutes from my hotel) and we went and grabbed food. Luckily he gets an hour for lunch so we didn't feel too rushed.

It went well. I expected some tension and anxiety, at least on my part, and I think he may have had some too but he seems better at hiding it than I do. We talked about a lot of things, nothing too drama inspiring during lunch.

On the way back to work he actually apologized again for having such an insane schedule and making sure I knew that he hadn't been hiding or avoiding me all this time. I knew this, but that little paranoid piece of me wants to say otherwise and he knew this. It is nice that he is trying to reassure me about our friendship and making sure that I am doing alright with where we are at.

I am ok with where we are at, but I'm not ok with where I am at just yet, and I'm not quite sure where he is really at sometimes. He admitted, in not so many words, that he does send mixed signals at times and he doesn't mean to cause me any more heartache, it's more of just a flirty friend nature, which if none of the sexual/romantic aspect were an issue, I would be giving as good as I got. He doesn't mean to "fertilize that seed" of hope/desire/wishful thinking just as I don't mean for it to still be viable. But of course we don't always get what we want and the path to hell/good intentions apply here as well.

Although one thing I thought interesting, and not necessarily as a "hope generator" was that I mentioned that now I have to figure out what it is that I really want in my relationship with Cajun and if/how poly fits. I said that this whole thing has opened up new opportunities and ideas for me. And he agreed, that this has opened up a whole new thought for himself. Being raised Catholic where and relationship outside of marriage was forbidden, this really threw him for a loop but also opened his mind to new ideas even more than it had been. He is still interested in understanding Poly and the life style. Now I know that that does not mean he is interested in implementing the lifestyle into his own relationships and life, but it is nice to know that he doesn't think less of me for trying this life or even trying to include him in it.

We are supposed to get together for lunch again tomorrow (as long as the fates don't get in the way and make him have a working lunch) and again we will probably go out to eat. It is almost like having a safety net by always being in public, but unfortunately we don't feel as free to talk about certain things as we may wish to be and those things get relegated to the car ride back to work which is time restricted. Although I want to get him alone so we can talk about whatever we want, I know and understand why having this safety net is a good idea. It's the next best thing to a chaperon. ;)

So that is where things stand at present. Slightly trembling ground but not shaking so hard that we can't stand on our own two feet. I feel happy that we were able to get together and talk again, but am still sad at the same time. I still feel that we are missing out on something wonderful and good.

I will keep you (and myself) posted here... especially with tomorrow's lunch and my long drive back home...hope that goes well. For now, I rest, as I am feeling a bit drained on all three levels. Thank you for taking interest in this ongoing drama and until next time... TTFN!
 
Second lunch didn't go quite as well as first lunch but fate tried to mess with us again. Elric's relief was about 30 minutes + late so he felt he had to hurry as he had lots of work to get done. He also had to leave right after work as he had an interview to go to.

Lunch itself went ok, we stayed at his building which has a small cafe where we could sit, eat and chat. Again nothing too dramatic during lunch. After we walked with me to the doors and we gave each other a big hug. Then I went to give him a good luck kiss, a quick peck really, and ok, I was aiming for his mouth, and he startled turning his head away. We then said goodbye and I went out to my car and he back up to his desk.

Ok, I know some of you may be thinking that was stupid to do, but I really didn't mean anything other than a friendly peck. Why I chose to aim for the lips and not his cheek like I had done before, I don't really know myself. His response though, really hurt. I felt like he didn't trust me as he said he did.

I texted him from the car, apologizing if I made him uncomfortable and explaining my intent. Didn't hear back from. Finally got on the road and drove home through hellish fog. Texted him again when I got home to let him know I got there ok and still hadn't heard back from him. I was afraid I messed up big time this time.

We finally got a hold of each other Friday afternoon and he apologized for not getting back to me, he crashed shortly after his interview and other than waking up for a couple minutes to get into his bed, he slept through the night. Poor guy needs the sleep. He also said that it had nothing to do with the kiss. Since he was still at work, we decided that we would continue the conversation later that night.

We started talking again, basically jumping right into it. He didn't mind the kiss or the intended destination, as long as it was just a peck. Anything more than that would be pushing boundaries...and that's when we started having a great heart to heart discussion about the boundaries and where they lie for him as that has been one of my biggest problems trying to figure out. He apologized for being kinda "wishy washy" which I appreciated immensely.

We were really covering just about everything from his feelings and decision and started with my feelings when things went sour. I was having trouble phrasing a question so that it wasn't pushing or feeling like a "you owe me" type of thing. Lets just say, that's when things got f'd up. The way I phrased it was, "What would you you feel comfortable and agree to granting me, if I were to ask for "one thing" to be granted?" It was a rephrasing of the idea of, "I don't ask for much, will you do this one thing for me?" But I wanted him to have the option of saying he wouldn't be comfortable with anything, plus if there was something he was comfortable with, I wouldn't have to deal with the rejection of asking for things I know he would not agree to.

This is when I started getting hurt. He was taking this question to mean that I didn't care about his feelings and decisions and that I just have to keep pressing the issue. I feel as if I'm trying to cover all the bases, to get rid of any lingering questions and hopes that I have that could germinate into problems later.

The end of the conversation got a bit worse as I was feeling hurt but I didn't want to hurt his feelings just because mine were.

I am sorry. I don't know how else to express it without making it sound like I'm trying to change your mind or make you do something you don't want to do. I don't want it to sound like a "you owe me" kind of thing either. It's hard because, even if it's not true, I am seeing our relationship right now as almost a you getting almost everything you want and I giving up almost everything I want...except for our friendship which I never would want to give up. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear this, but I'm trying to be honest with how I feel now and believe me it hurts to write this too.

If it didn't come out clear in that paragraph, I don't feel like you owe me anything and I don't want you thinking you do either.

I'm sorry, I'm making this hard on us both... my stupid little festering thoughts.

I wish I could just say, Okay! and that's that. it would definitely make my life a hell of a lot easier.

I've been trying so hard the last couple months to just be friends like I said I would...I guess things are just finally coming to a boil inside me and starting to overflow.​

What really hurts is that this is how I truly feel. He says stop, I stop. He says go, I go. I've spent so much time and energy trying to make sure he is comfortable with our friendship and I'm walking on eggshells hoping he doesn't take something I say or do wrong and think I'm trying something.

At this point, he had to log off. Stress levels were high and our 2 1/2 hour conversation was coming to a screeching halt. This is the same thing that happened when I wrote that "I'm done" email to him.

Of course I sent him another email. This one trying to explain better what I was trying to express.

I guess the question I was trying to ask would be, is there anything that you would be comfortable with doing. This could range from something as simple as my head on your shoulder while we watched a movie to whatever on the other extreme. I would have understood if you said, “at this time, no.” I was almost expecting that. I honestly don’t know where all of your boundaries are, but I know we were making some headway with defining them before I started opening my big mouth again.

I try to be diplomatic but sometimes it fails me as well…but the other end than how it fails you at times. You try to say just enough and I end up saying too much… or at least too much too fast. I hope you can at least understand where those feelings are coming from, from the hurt and heart-broken girl who fell so deep so fast only to have the rug pulled out from under her time and again. I wanted to tell you how I was feeling without sounding like I was trying to hurt you or cause you pain, without the selfish “you owe me” feel, but I guess I failed at that. Can you at least see why I might be feeling that way, that I feel like I keep giving into what you want or don’t want and getting “nothing” in return, no compromise, no give and take? I put “nothing” in quotes because the one thing I do get, one of the things that I do desperately want to keep, is your friendship, which by continually trying to be honest about how I feel, I seem to put it in jeopardy.

Now I am feeling like just because he has stated his feelings and decision, my feelings don't really matter, that his should put an end to it. When I was trying to be honest with him and with myself I was not trying to change his mind or put pressure on him. Our relationship is not a debate with one side trying to prove the other wrong, but it should be a deliberation where we both feel free to express our opinions and feelings without fearing censure or judgment. Maybe he is not used to that kind of relationship, maybe he is not ready for us to have that kind of friendship and I am just a shoulder and emotion receptacle because sometimes when I try to express my feelings, he makes it sound like I'm trying to change his mind, pressure him, or just plain ignoring his feelings.

I keep going back and forth between depressed, rejected, upset, angry, tired, and just plain done. Maybe it is time to call it quits and work on finding that switch to turn off the feelings of "more" that keep getting me in trouble and increasing the heartache. This is so not good for me and my blood pressure and it is most definitely not good for the baby.

Well, I will let you know what he says regarding the email and whether we finish our conversation or just call that part of our relationship as over and done with... again giving in to his wants and desires... and I dealing with my feelings in silence and almost solitude again.

I really appreciate you guys and this forum. I don't have anyone other than my husband to talk to about these things and it's not every day that your hubby is ok sitting up late holding you while you cry your heart out over another man. Cajun was even ready to "let" me "go all the way" with Elric if that is what we decided to do. With all the mixed messages I was getting, I felt it important to discuss the possibility with Cajun and he really has embraced the whole Poly idea. He even said that if I do start a relationship with Elric, or anyone else, he might even try looking around. I'm very proud of him and so happy to have him with me and in my life. He has been more supportive of me and my problems then I could ever have expected. So I guess one positive thing has come out of this entire debacle of a night.

Ah well, we take the bad with the good as best we can. So now I await any comments or crits or just hugs and voices of support. Thanks for taking the time to read this insanely long post. I guess I just really needed to vent.
 
Frustrate the crap out of you? LMAO! How do you think I feel. :)

It was very cathartic to share all of that though, sorry if it went a bit stream of consciousness on y'all.
 
Hi Vandalin, everyone.
I expect that this post won't help at all, but here I go.

It seems to me you're just tormenting yourself. I would drop him and move on. If only our hearts listened to such logic.

When I was in high school I was totally in love with this girl who had no interest in me. I didn't want to pester her to death, so I limited myself to asking her out / suggesting things for us to do to only one thing per month. I think I tempted her a few times, but she always said no. Likely to prevent me from getting my hopes up when she had no interest. In that respect she was kinder than Elric is, I guess.

I spent way too much time thinking about her. Thinking about her made my heart soar. For something like 2.5 years I was IN LOVE.

Then one day I realized it might be possible to not love her.
The next day I realized that I likely didn't love her.
The day after, I just felt tired when I thought of her.

And that was that. I never bothered her again. The thing that impressed me is how suddenly a couple year obsession ended.

Perhaps you should cyber flirt with someone else. Get a tiny touch of NRE going with someone else to distract you?

I offer this advice full knowing that if someone had given me similar advice when I had this obsession with my lady love, I would have agreed with them, and it would have had NO effect on my emotions. You can't command your emotions. But you can command what you do, and I think it is time for you to spend time with others.

I wish you the best, Warm regards, Rick.
 
Maybe it is time to call it quits and work on finding that switch to turn off the feelings of "more" that keep getting me in trouble and increasing the heartache. This is so not good for me and my blood pressure and it is most definitely not good for the baby.

Feelings don't follow instructions and don't easily get turned off, but hurt feelings do heal. Treat it like you'd treat a wound. Care for it, clean it, give it time to heal.
 
Thanks Rick and Ceoli.

Rick, thank you for your story and yes, it does feel that way sometimes. He makes me feel like I'm back in high school sometimes with how anxious I'd get when we do get to spend any time together. But I will wait on the flirting thing. I have a habit of jumping off the deep end (as you can probably see) and I'd hate to hurt someone or get hurt even more. I have thought about trying to find someone else to help take my mind off Elric, but that really wouldn't be fair to the new guy.

Ceoli, you are right. I do have to clean out the wound, cauterize it, and let it heal. It is probably a good thing that I won't be back in IL for a few months (unless something bad happens in the family) so we can start to establish our plutonic friendship again.

Since my last monster post, nothing has happened with Elric. I posted a comment on one of his statuses and he replies, just like nothing is different, but he hasn't tried talking to me yet which is ok. I am hoping to get some sort of reply to my email but if not then I will probably send one more and then stick to the final "I'm done." I don't think I would have brought any of this stuff up with him if we hadn't been having such a good heart to heart and since his defensive response is to go on the offensive, I guess I'm tired of feeling like the bad guy when there really isn't a bad guy.

I will always love Elric and that is fine, but as Mono pointed out in the original starting topic, it's how you need to express your love that matters. It doesn't have to have a physical expression like sex...and I think I may be starting to get that feeling and understanding finally. I know that in time I will be able to love him as just a friend and that hugs and a kiss on the cheek (which he is ok with) will be all I need to express how I feel.

Little Blue Engine thanks you for your support. ;) I think I can I think I can...
 
And just when I thought things couldn't get any worse...

Saturday night Elric and I had another talk. This was instigated by a new email I sent him requesting that we talk about a decision I had made. Or more, I was in the process of making. I had decided that it might be a good idea to "unfriend" each other on Facebook for the rest of my pregnancy (three months) and then start fresh in July. We could still email or text if something big happened, we wouldn't be ending our friendship, which neither wanted, but trying to back up a little.

When I was coming to this decision, I was afraid that he might "unfriend" me out of anger and not tell me what was going on (as another friend had basically done last Saturday). I was tired of other people making decisions that effected my life and as I didn't want to do the same I sent the email asking him to talk with me about this.

We had another very good conversation and it ended well. At least I thought so. I told him what I was thinking, assured him that I still wanted to be friends and that this would be a temporary thing, but I was still unsure if I wanted to take such a drastic step. He had said that he had thought about it from time to time as well when he was really upset and frustrated with me and my "not taking his word at face value," but felt that doing so would be hiding and he did not want to hide.

Things were explained and smoothed out and the unloading from both sides helped me feel less afraid and cornered into doing something like this. I said that I wanted to think about it a couple more days and he said "take your time." Then we said good night.

Sunday rolls around and I'm feeling pretty good. We both had our say and it looked like things were getting back on track. I was very proud that I was able to distract myself from thinking about him for the first time in a long time. He popped on that night for a few minutes and then off and I thought nothing of it really as he does that on occasion.

Later I was finishing up some of the games I play there and noticed that on some of the games we had both been playing, he wasn't showing up on my "team" anymore. I went and checked to see if he was still playing the game through the game page and he wasn't listed as a "friend playing". I thought it was kinda strange so I went to leave a message on his wall to see what was up.

I couldn't access his wall. He "unfriended" me. I thought that being told that he couldn't have a sexual relationship or a romantic relationship hurt, I thought that being told that he only loved me as a friend hurt...but this? It would have been one thing if he had said something to me, especially in light of how well our conversation seemed to have gone, but not even to send a message... I feel like a part of me is missing.

I sent him an email to see what happened as I am totally at a loss...I honestly have no clue what could have happened in 24 hours that made him do this. A small part of me is hoping it was just a mistake, hit the wrong link or something, but I know better than that.

I sat and cried for almost two hours most of which Cajun curled around me and handed me tissues (he is wonderful to me). He tried to cheer me up a little or at least ease the pain by saying things like, maybe Elric couldn't handle waiting to see if I did it and just did it himself, to which I replied, well at least I would have said something to him first.

I hate using the phrase "fair" but this feels so unfair. I thought we were finally, finally getting things on the right track, that we might actually get it right this time. With him not saying anything to me, it feels more final then what I had planned.

Now I have to wait and see if he replies to my email and see what he has to say. I think part of me would be angry that he had given me no reason to think he would do this but I'm just hurting too much right now. I feel so lost. I was reconciled and even coming to look forward to just being friends...and now this happens... how many more adjectives can I use to describe how I am feeling right now?

I have to go and try to take my mind off of this (yeah right) at least for a little while. I don't need my mom asking questions with my eyes as puffy as they are. Time to go act like a normal reclusive pregnant woman as opposed to the depressed and destroyed lump that I feel like right now. How melodramatic, eh?
 
" With him not saying anything to me, it feels more final then what I had planned. "

...Then what you had planned ? He needs to be left alone, not answering for his every action. He is not helping matters, when he gives you hope. You seem to be hurting so bad, you see 'hope' with each small gesture.


I am sorry you are going through all this hurt and pain. It is hard to let go of someone we love. Sometimes the Drama is all we have left, and we clutch to it, because our heart feels, that it is better then nothing. Each conversation,.....no matter the topic, is a way to keep the drama alive.

In order to be friends, you have to give yourself time away from each other.

Let your hearts heal, then broach it months down the road, and see if the friendship still exsists.


It is definetly one of those times, where it`s easy to see on the outside looking in, but very hard for the person living it, to come to terms with it all. I don`t comment out of any feeling of superiority. I think in many ways, most of us have been where you are at.

Take that great husband of yours, and focus the energy there. :) Someone else said to flirt and look around a little. It appears you may have become so absorbed in Elric, your heart forgets others exsist.


Take a deep breath, and lift your eyes, from off the ground. You need to force yourself to do the actions, (stay away from him) and THEN your heart, will heal, and your head will clear.


Be well.
 
Thank you for your input SJ and RS. And yes it is one of those times where it is easier said from the outside than done from the inside. Although I feel I need to defend myself on a couple of points.

I am not asking him to explain every action. I am only asking for an explanation as to this sudden turn around. It was not just in my mind or a seed of hope for more (which is finally quenched) that makes me think that our conversation went well. It was actual and mutual as he said that he felt better too with the unloading.

Secondly, he and I have hardly talked over the last few months other than the casual, "Hey, how are you?" small talk. We live 400 miles apart so it's not like we can see each other that often and when we saw each other last, things went very well, including the platonic kiss which at first caused me worry. We commented on walls and sent game gifts and that was about it for our communications. These last two talks were more in depth and more like what we started with when we first started forging our friendship, even before we started to think of each other as a possible more. It felt good and right to be going back to that.

As for the quote of mine that you used, I had never intended for the split to be final. It would have been more like a cast to help the wounds heal. This feels like an amputation with no warning. Even the other guy who I mentioned had the decency to send a message telling me his wife was insecure and jealous if we were just talking about the weather. Elric needn't IM me but an email or message just saying that unfriending for a while might be the best after all would have been decent and would not have filled me with any false hopes.

Yes, I am hurt. Who wouldn't be? Did I become so absorbed in Elric that I had forgotten there are others out there. Not exactly. Elric was the beginning of this whole poly journey for us, he is what inspired it. I don't even know if I would want a relationship outside of Cajun and I. I know I have mentioned that I hate dating. I hated "looking for love." I also will not subject someone new to a broken person which is the point that I am at right now. Jumping in so quickly only leads to more heartache.

I honestly and truly believe that after Saturday nights conversation, my heart was starting to heal, that seed of "hoping for more" had finally been dug out along with the roots. I felt better about where we were at then I had in a long time. This unfriending was not just a band-aid being ripped off, it was like having the scab ripped off along with surrounding skin and then lemon juice and salt being poured on and rubbed. This was the opposite of an anti-septic, this was having gangrene rubbed in. This was about the friendship, not about any notions of more.

I know that if I don't hear from him soon, I know I will have to just go on. I will stick to the original decision idea and after my baby is born I will attempt to friend him and see what happens.

I'm sorry if it seems like I am attacking you, but I am only attacking the ideas (and yes there is a huge difference). I am very much on the defensive right now as you can imagine. I do thank you for your input and in time, yes, I will be able to completely let go of the pain...but right now, that is not possible as it is too fresh.
 
No worries, I don`t feel attacked one bit.

As the title says, I don`t feel attacked, nor do my ideas, actually.

Point of view is the difference, that is all. :)

Speaking of points, here are a few ;

- Distance does not stop a relationship. If the person is on your mind, and in your heart still. If you think about them often, see them in gaming-world, profiles, forums, emails, etc, ...Then they are still, ' In Your Life '.

- He has explained many things, and you two seem to see things differently. Your POV`s differ, and the roller coaster conversations are proof of that.

- To talk and flirt a little with others is harmless. It is acceptable, and normal to get to know other people. You can be upfront about your broken heart, and need to heal, while still developing friendships. No expectations should come of that.

As they say,.."Nothing good ever came easy.."

...The flip side to that is;

"Nothing worthwhile ever came forced. "


Try to take everything typed, as food for thought, not a criticism. That is the spirit in which it was given. :) We all respond to each others stories, and remarks, as a way to hopefully help each other grow, and see various points of view. Feel free to remind me of that sometime, when I post a story ;)



All in all, I wish you the best, no matter the outcome. Can`t wait to hear of the new baby ,...that will be a definite joy !
 
It is definetly one of those times, where it`s easy to see on the outside looking in, but very hard for the person living it, to come to terms with it all.

Vandalin -

I really didn't take any of what you said as an "attack" on me. I have totally been where you are, and felt how you feel before - so I understand.

Maybe what he did is really to the benefit of you and your friendship together in the long run. He may have done you a favor. Ripping the bandaid off and making a unilateral decision for himself and what he wanted may be the only way he could send you a clear message that he needs space. He has every right to do that.

I honestly think you also need space, and I suggest you don't try to contact him for an explanation. His actions said it all. If it was a mistake, or there was more to say, he will contact you on his own time.

Have you ever heard of the "no contact rule"? I am a big fan of this. If you end a relationship (this also can mean the changing of one) sometimes, no contact can give you the opportunity to refocus, clear your head, etc.

Sometimes it is more appropriate than others. This situation seems like the perfect time to put this in place. No contact mean no contact. at all. No facebook, No calls, No texts, No anonymous cyber stalking, etc.

You will know when it is time to break the no contact time period. You will feel like your old self again. You will be happy with your current life. You will not feel the need for contact.

Some may say this is harsh. But, I know it has worked for me, and allowed for the rebuilding of friendships that are true and relaxed. ( I have a pretty good "ex to friends" track record!)

RS
 
He just friended me again and told me that he thought he would give me a "boost" as I seemed determined to resolve the issue. He didn't mean it as a surprise and apologized if the intention was misunderstood.

I think I had just hoped that this could be a mutual agreement and not a unilateral decision. I'm tired of others making decisions for me and I don't like making decisions for others.

I just wanted another day or two to decide if this was what I/we needed, not have it sprung on me.

Perhaps if this was his way of agreeing with me, then maybe it would be best. But as a door closing, not being slammed.
 
Feeling pretty decent right now. We weren't really able to talk much as he was at work. But I decided that yes, taking a break would be good for both of us. I sent him an email telling him this and a few other things that I needed to say. And although it did sting a little to "unfriend" him, this time I know things are okay and that in July we can start fresh, not start over, but (as I seem to be big on this theme lately) as a phoenix rises from the ashes our friendship will rise and be brighter than before.

Little Engine that Could is now saying, "I know I can, I know I can."

The most frustrating person may finally have a little peace with that seed of "wanting more" thoroughly disposed of and finally...finally ready for the future.

And no, I don't plan on seeking out anyone new just yet...I've got enough on my plate with the upcoming baby and potential moving and 3 yr old daughter and wonderful husband and helpful mother. :) But as I have a smile on my face and a smile in my heart, this is plenty for now. Thank you again for all of your advice and support. I will still be poking around whether we do become actively poly or not.
 
Thank you again for all of your advice and support. I will still be poking around whether we do become actively poly or not.

You better poke around..or we'll find you...we'll break out the poly sniffer dogs...they specialize in people with huge hearts so you are an easy catch :)

Take care
Mono
 
aw shucks. :) You so sweet! Thanks.
 
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