Redpepper's journey

It seems to me that poly is not about the "free love" that some come into it thinking. It seems to be about self-examination and relationship examination. There is nothing like poly to make a person evaluate themselves and those they have relationships with. It seems that what comes up most is issues of integrity, communication compatibility and shared relationship goals and values.

This notion seems so simple, but is so incredibly complex at the same time. No "free" about it. Often there is a huge expense.
 
I have been thinking a lot about how people do poly differently than me. I am a tribal person. The trickle down that happens when one person in the "tribe," even in the far reaches of where the boundary is of my tribe, effects me greatly whether I like it or not. If someone does something that causes pain for another I feel it through that person, who has a relationship with that person, who has a relationship with that person who has a relationship with me. All of it comes my way. How I respond trickles back to them and everyone else.

The positive other side of receiving those feelings from others is that I feel huge amounts of love and support also from everyone and give the same also. All of the "energy" in my "tribe" moves and shifts from person to person. If someone comes into someone's life as a partner, or out, then that shift happens also. It keeps me on my toes, it keeps me thinking about extended consideration... compassion/empathy. What I do affects people and I intend to make sure that affect is only positive if I can possibly help it. If not, then I intend to make it a learning experience that is helpful to all.

I think about First Nations culture in Canada. I am no expert and really only know a bit, but I like that it is very important to surround someone in a family/nation who has struggles. The attempt to support the person through words of wisdom and love is really noble to me. Regardless of what they have done and who it has affected, the person is listened to, consulted about what they will do to make things right, encouraged to try new things, praised when they change their ways and given the well earned wisdom from their elders and family around them so that they might benefit and be given every possible chance to succeed. There are limits to how much is given and how much will be tolerated too. Its not like there is no consequence to actions, but that is the last straw and there is a huge effort to support their self journey before it gets to that point.

I see my role in my family and how I do poly the way I have described. Its tricky when those around me in my "tribe" don't see their role as I do, but I can only encourage them to listen and understand my stance and realise that not everyone is like me nor are they as experienced as I am in poly. I can only do what is right for me and in reflection of what I value in the hope that at least it will be well received even if the person doesn't like the way I do things or doesn't agree with how my poly works.
 
I have been thinking a lot about how people do poly differently than me. I am a tribal person. The trickle down that happens when one person in the "tribe," even in the far reaches of where the boundary is of my tribe, effects me greatly whether I like it or not. If someone does something that causes pain for another I feel it through that person, who has a relationship with that person, who has a relationship with that person who has a relationship with me. All of it comes my way. How I respond trickles back to them and everyone else.

This is how I seem to work as well. My dad's therapist isn't too happy about it, but she's not the one living here, being part of this family with everything we've experienced together. So.

I think about First Nations culture in Canada. I am no expert and really only know a bit, but I like that it is very important to surround someone in a family/nation who has struggles. The attempt to support the person through words of wisdom and love is really noble to me. Regardless of what they have done and who it has affected, the person is listened to, consulted about what they will do to make things right, encouraged to try new things, praised when they change their ways and given the well earned wisdom from their elders and family around them so that they might benefit and be given every possible chance to succeed. There are limits to how much is given and how much will be tolerated too. Its not like there is no consequence to actions, but that is the last straw and there is a huge effort to support their self journey before it gets to that point.

Very much something I want for myself in life. Learning how to see the benefits of this can be difficult for people who are used to a nuclear family structure (or a series of interlocked nuclear family structures). I had a giant extended family when I was small, though. It suddenly being just us three on this side of the pond was part of culture shock, I bet.

What you describe resembles Covey's concept of interdependence very much, and since that's also one of my values, I can consider and embrace this description of what I suspect is an idea with many names already.

Thank you.
 
It's been a week of dealing with one thing after another, most of it here on the forum. Many things come into play when making decisions. Many things are confidential or unknown publicly. What looks like nothing going on is actually post after post in our mod forum on how to handle things fairly for all. It's a lot of work and has left me with "compassion fatigue" for the moment.
 
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*hugs* Take some time for yourself, hon. I was away for the weekend and have no idea what I missed, but I just wanted to let you and all the mods know how much I appreciate all that you do.
 
*hugs* Take some time for yourself, hon. I was away for the weekend and have no idea what I missed...

No doubt our Caribbean island friend. That was a doozy of a thread.
 
Its a lot of work and has left me with "compassion fatigue" for the moment.
I definitely sympathise. I have had a few cases like this on fora that I've been trying to moderate and it's hard to keep all the mods happy, let alone all the members. Sometimes you really do have to take a step back from it all.
 
I have a week of burlesque mayhem going on right now after two weekends in a row of music and beer festivals. I hope to catch up here soon, at least intermittently.
 
Funny you should say that because I was asked to join a troupe that's starting up and they are looking for a name. Burlesque Mayhem would be a good name for this troupe! :D

I spent a good deal of time with Mono this weekend. We do well together when we have long periods of time together. It's something we have very rarely had, but we become, well, very mono with each other. This past weekend was no different. We went to a four-day music festival and saw a ton of bands we like in concert. A rare treat.

Apart from the wonderful time together, there was a night of fighting. He told me his female friend had a new friend she was going to movies with and spending time with. I asked him how he felt about it and he shrugged it off. I could see there was more going on than a shrug-off, so I asked if he was sad, regretful that he hadn't worked with me about spending time with her, disappointed, angry. He said something along the lines of it not being worth the effort it would take to process and that it required too much work and he doesn't like work. Everything with me is work. I took this personally, that I had made it that way, and that if I had only been able to shut up and suck it up, he would've been able to spend time with her.

The conversation hurt. He and I ended up not talking to each other for the last half of the band we were watching. Later, I remembered our discussion about my not seeing everything as his not loving me and that he isn't going to leave, so I told him I'd decided to drop the whole thing. I wasn't going to let his words make me feel hurt. I realized he was doing his sabotage routine whereby he creates moments to make me doubt he cares, so I feel like dumping him and leaving. I told him I wouldn't do that, I wasn't going to put up with that and wouldn't let him make me feel that way with his words. He agreed that he was doing the sabotage thing again. Once we established that, we both were on the same page again.

It's fear that creates this behaviour for him. Right now, he is fearful about what will happen next in his life. The closer he gets to retiring from the navy, the more fear.

Last week I had my first sex with Brad. We had played a bit and had been doing some stuff, but not to the extent of having some time and a bedroom! We were at this house and had his boy for the night. After he was in bed, we went to the spare bedroom. It was lovely and long overdue. But the condom came off! We immediately stopped and assessed (again, as we keep up to date often) where we and our fluid-bonded partners were with testing. There were no outstanding issues. There wasn't a pregnancy concern.

My biggest worry, that completely wrecked the mood, was how my other partners would react. The last time this happened (four years ago) they freaked out, as I didn't say anything until later and there was much more risk. This time, I told them all right away, and to my relief they were all thankful I had spoken up. They weren't too concerned, once I explained the circumstances. Derby asked me how I was doing with it and I was grateful she asked. It was touching that she empathized with how I felt.

Big Libra time coming up for me. Three Libra loves in one month of birthdays. I'm hosting a birthday party for Libras. I am taking Brad and Derby out to events. Mono got his present early, in the form of a belt he really wanted fixed. I will do something special for him with our family though, too.
 
My biggest concern, and the one that completely wrecked the mood, was how my other partners would react. Last time that happened (four years ago) they freaked out as I didn't say anything until later and there was much more risk. I told them all right away and to my relief they were all thankful I had spoken up, and weren't too concerned once I explained the circumstance. Derby asked me how I was doing with it and I was grateful she asked. It was touching that she empathized with how I would feel.

That is cool, life is great with such understanding people around you. :)
 
He said something along the lines of it not being worth the effort it would take to process and that it required too much work and he doesn't like work. Everything with me is work. I took this personally that I had made it that way and that if I had only been able to shut up and suck it up, he would be able to spend time with her.

Most of the men I have been involved with are like this. I have been told that if a topic has been addressed once, why do we need to keep revisiting it? Any kind of processing and talking about things again and again is too much, it seems. Ahh, it's frustrating to me when I have to pull back and leave things alone, but it's also been a good lesson.

Last week I had my first sex date night with Brad . . . the condom came off. We immediately stopped and accessed (again, as we keep up to date often) where we were at with tests and where our fluid bonded partners were at with test. All good... There are no outstanding concerns.

I'm just wondering-- after stopping and assessing the situation, did he just put on another condom and you continued? I don't see why that would have to kill the mood. It's just something that happens sometimes. I'm not even sure I would tell other lovers that a condom came off unless the guy came while it wasn't on him. Or is that what happened? I'm only asking because I am really curious how other people handle these things.
 
Thanks for the responses.

NYCindie, I haven't been accustomed to men who don't enjoy processing. Its a learning curve for me, a big one.

I was concerned because he's fluid-bonded with his wife, who has a promiscuous boyfriend, but she hasn't been tested since this guy entered her life. Brad had been tested (as I knew) after the last time she had sex with her bf, about 4-6 weeks ago, and is fine.

I wouldn't have been concerned except for the reaction I got last time from my other loves. Remember way back when I was just seeing Mono, and he and PN had a really hard time with a condom breaking during sex with a bf that I didn't know anything about sexually? Anyway, I thought their reaction would be similar. It wasn't, largely because I'd crossed my "T's" and dotted my "I's" this time as best as I could. Stopping right away helped with that security, also.

I was just finishing telling him this story and we were beginning to cuddle again when his boy woke up and I had to go home. So no more lovin.' :(
 
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A reminder to myself about who I think I am

Sometimes I catch myself standing in the middle of my life, rooted in the realization that I have taken on more than most. Most days, I live one moment at a time and don't allow myself to think of anything but balancing time, energy, giving my love to others, actively listening to them, and remaining in a position of trusting the lack of control I have.

I give everything to my partners and son. I have a bit left for work, family and the very few friends I have. Mostly, I just exist, outside of my chosen family. I'm present, but refuse responsibility for any relationship beyond what is in front of me. At least, I try to be like that. But I often think of others and give of myself, regardless.

I have firm boundaries and a strong sense of who I am, what I can manage and what I value. I'm open to change and growth, I think, although it sometimes takes a brick upside my head to get me to notice that maybe I should look at myself. For this reason I prefer radically honest, yet kind people who show me they love me by telling me the truth in as kind and compassionate a way possible. I don't have time to waste on wondering if I can trust someone and wondering what they are trying to say by trying to read between the lines. I prefer to get to the bottom of issues before the misconception and assumptions set in. After that, I find that nothing gets solved completely.

I tend to think that people want and strive to make positive and loving change, growth and energy in the world, but I realize I am extremely naïve about this. It isn't true, yet I hold on to it as my greatest faith in humanity.

The combination in a person of wanting to make positive and loving change, growth and energy in the world, being radically honest in the truth they speak, while remaining kind and compassionate, is often irresistible to me. It has to be genuine, though. Flakes are easy for me to spot and if there isn't an edge that makes them human then I just don't buy it. Someone that is too "soft" makes me think that they have hidden anger issues.
 
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The weekend was mostly a wash of burlesque, my brother being in town, a wonderful date to a local park for a hike and then dinner.

I came out to my brother about the burlesque-- well, to his partner and then to him. She wanted to know if they could crash at our place while they were in town, and I had to tell her that I had a show the night they wanted to stay over. No biggie. They came to the show! It was strange to look out over the crowd and see my baby brother. Not overly comfortable, but I just ignored it and carried on. He saw a number that was more funny than sexy, thank goodness.

Brad came to see my show for the first time too. He sat behind my brother, his partner and Mono. I'm not sure why he sat alone. It seemed odd to me. But after the show, we met up with Derby and a large group of friends, including Brad's wife, and the man I have been chatting with often that Leo's wife used to date. Brad seemed to socialize well with everyone there.

Leo's wife's ex and his wife were there. He and I have a casual, pleasant, relaxed friendship.

Derby had her last bout of the season on Saturday and I directed everyone to see her that night. There is always burlesque. There isn't always derby. Now the season is done I will invite people to see the next big show I'm in for Halloween. I have another show in between, but that is the biggie.

Everyone came to Mono's suite and we partied until 2:00. It was the second night in a row for Mono and me. We were in the groove. The night before had been a party for our monogamous friends and it had been just that-- monogamous. (Whatever that means. After years of poly I can actually sense a difference.)

The party was a poly pile up, complete with newbies and many metamours and loves. :D Just the way I like it. Mono commented after it that he had enjoyed himself and thought that our new group of friends suited him and us more than the poly friends of the past. It does seem to be the beginning of a new era of poly friends, one that is well needed. There are some straggling old poly friends, but I feel as if there's been a fresh start, somehow.

My brother and PN came down to meet everyone and socialized for a while, but went up to bed after an hour. It was great to fall into bed after a large martini; dirty and wet, and a large take-out poutine (French fries, gravy and cheese curds, fucking awesome!). I was content.

Sunday I went for a hike with Brad after picking all the rest of the apples off our tree. It was the fourth tree of fruit to pick this summer and I was glad to finally give it a rest and give all the fruit away. The garden wasn't that great this year. The flowers were, but the veg sucked. It just wasn't warm and sunny enough at the right time. Damned island weather.

Brad and I hadn't seen each other in a couple of weeks and it was great to catch up and get all our stories out. We laid down in a large grassy field by the ocean. It was a moment I won't easily forget, when I realized that there is really no going back and that I am not scared anymore. I have full trust in the situation and my lack of control of it. It was a good feeling to just be myself and be content that the others were as satisfied as I could possibly help make them.

Four partners is really too many. I don't suggest it. I don't know how I am managing. I don't give any relationship what I could if there were fewer, but I carry on and give as much as I can. Sometimes I want to hide and pretend it's just me to think about. Maybe I will take a break sometimes and do just that, but when I feel I have caught up with one, I remind myself of the perceived neglect of another. I flit from one relationship to another, all the while never feeling as if I have caught up, or been able to give as much as I wish I could.

Brad and I talked at dinner about how one knows that a person is partner-worthy. I decided that if I could imagine going on a vacation with someone. where we would spend a lot of down time together, just sitting and staring quietly in the comfort of the other's presence, then they are worth looking at as a partner. Small talk and having the need to entertain someone, to me, indicates friendship.

Silence and solitude, with very little going on, is a huge leap for me from daily life. I don't adjust easily. I need to feel safe to do that with someone. I would feel vulnerable. I would show a part of myself that isn't visible to many. I would have to trust deeply. Turning extroversion into introversion is a vulnerable thing. I don't do that with anyone except those I love and trust the most.

Ahh, a vacation like that with any of my loves fills my heart with glee. I really do think that I couldn't do without any of the four. :)

...............................

Mono's friend is off again and he won't be seeing her until December, or even longer than that. He admitted last week that things have changed between them and that he hasn't given her the friendship he promised. He said that he had backed away and not lived up to the agreement he made to not do that, and she, in turn, has also backed away. However, I still see a heck of a lot of posting back and forth on FB, and notice occasionally when she writes him on FB. What "backing away" means, I don't understand. Changed feelings?

I was surprised he told me all of this. I don't hear about her often and I think I might have even asked to get that much out of him. He likes to be private. But he is beginning to tell me when people flirt with him and what happens when they do. He has a large number of followers and he loves to be admired. He's a charming man and very funny. I know that he gets lots of attention that I don't know about and I feel far more comfortable knowing about it. I ask questions so as to understand better. Then he thinks I am feeling threatened. I am curious and trying to sort out how I feel about certain people propositioning my man. Ha! I'm not used to it, even if it's likely been going on for some time without my knowledge.

We have been fighting more often lately about stupid little things that run away with us. I worry about it, due to his opening up emotionally a bit more about the woman, the flirting, etc., and the awkwardness of knowing more personal stuff about him. But I blow it off and make jokes about it. I don't think I will feel comfortable until after he finishes work for good and is settled into his new routine. All of us are waiting for that.
 
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