Mono is a feature not a bug

PolyLinguist

New member
Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against being poly. Anyone out there wanting to try me for a possible poly relationship - long-term, temporary, whatever, just drop me a line. I am smart, interesting, not even that bad-looking, just ask my wife.

Nevertheless, now that I have been "out" as a poly for about half a year, reading the literature, going to poly events, I have started to reflect.

How will this actually happen? Why would someone actually choose me as a poly companion? In my single days, way back when, I wasn't that successful - I was too intellectual, too serious, and - for some - too unconventional. It took me quite a bit of effort to find the right kind of female company.

But when I did find someone suitable, I knew I had a trump card. My trump card was being single, sane and solvent. I could jump into a relationship with no baggage, and had the wherewithal to participate in it 100%. Not for me the lack of willingness to "commit". Marriage, children, bring it on, I'll give it my best.

But I don't have that trump card any more - I am married. My wife loves me dearly (and I her), and has no problem with me becoming poly. But why would someone else wish to be with me? There are plenty of men to choose from out there: there are the charmers, the soulful ones, the ones with sexy hobbies (sailing, glacier skiing, whatever), the ones who really know their wines and their whiskey, not to mention the ones richer and just plain better-looking (and younger!).

I know I have enough to offer in a mono world. Hey, my father (with many of the same virtues) remarried, very happily, at 72. But are my virtues sufficient in a poly world?

Just some of my thoughts. Any comments?
 
What about: yourself? The person you are? Why wouldn't that be enough? I really don't get your main problem, I suppose. Even in a mono world, someone who is dating you/wants to be in a relationship with you for the 'extras' you have in your life solely ... is that what you have been looking for? I don't think that I am wrong when I guess that there was more special about you than a 'mono trump card' you don't have any more.

And btw: Don't regard your wife as 'baggage' just because your family life and your relationship with her takes up some of your time. Aren't you a happy and fulfilled human being because of this? That's plenty to offer to any new person coming into your life, from my point of view.
 
What about: yourself? The person you are? Why wouldn't that be enough? I really don't get your main problem, I suppose. Even in a mono world, someone who is dating you/wants to be in a relationship with you for the 'extras' you have in your life solely ... is that what you have been looking for? I don't think that I am wrong when I guess that there was more special about you than a 'mono trump card' you don't have any more.

And btw: Don't regard your wife as 'baggage' just because your family life and your relationship with her takes up some of your time. Aren't you a happy and fulfilled human being because of this? That's plenty to offer to any new person coming into your life, from my point of view.


Hi Phy, and thanks for your comment.

Of course I have many things special about me, or so I like to think. But these things are not the qualities that are most appreciated in the dating world - if they were, I would be overwhelmed by offers. I never had trouble having female friends - but, by and large, when these friends were (and are) looking for something more, they normally look(ed) elsewhere.

And when these same women were complaining about their love lives, it was usually not because their boyfriends were not exciting or affectionate, it was because they were two-timing them, or were unwilling to move in together (let alone get married), or were not interested in having children (an important issue when the biological clock really starts clicking).

As for baggage, of course I don't consider my wife as baggage. But just think: as a single man, I knew that I could bring something to the table that many of my competitors couldn't or wouldn't. As a married man, even at poly social events, I am not sure what such qualities might be. If I had a better idea, I would start broadcasting them, loud and clear!
 
Maybe I am just the wrong person to answer to this ^.^ I have never 'dated', I just in a way 'found' interesting people in my direct surroundings and developed deeper feelings for them with time. I know two people that are interested in me on a more than platonic level, despite the husband and boyfriend that are by my side. All told me "Because you are special ... " It's the same for me: I am fascinated by someone or I am not. The second thought is about the possibility, the first is what I like about this person and why.

Wouldn't those women you are talking about be happy with a man willing to be honest and open and invested in their realtionship? As they learned, even the most exciting and affectionate man will not be the right one to be with if he is lying and cheating on them. Of course, they need to see that the 'mono dream' won't come true with you. Maybe you are talking to the wrong women *scratches head*

And about the qualities: You know how to lead a successful, trusting, honest, satisfying and stable relationship (Guessing from what you described ;)). Those are qualities that said other men obviously don't have, don't you think?

[Maybe there will be others more qualified to answer your question, but I am wishing you luck on your way :) ]
 
I can't imagine that your wife consented to date you, and then marry you, just *because* you were single, sane, and solvent. You call it a "trump card", but if that were so, why wouldn't she have hooked up with the first interested man she met who had those same qualities... surely you couldn't have been the first man she met who possessed all three? You talk about that combo like it's some extremely rare thing, but in my experience it's really not. Also, believe it or not, there are plenty of women who like serious, intellectual, unconventional men. At least, there are in my world of female friends who are geeks, computer programmers, scientists, medieval enthusiasts, non-profit employees, artists, etc. Maybe you were just hanging out with the wrong crowd before?

You're still sane, you're still solvent, you're just not single, but a woman who's poly, who may very well have a marriage of her own, isn't going to have a problem with that. In fact, I get the impression that some partnered poly people prefer, when they form new entanglements, to get involved with people who are also already partnered, so that they don't feel responsible for fulfilling a role in their new partner's life that they just don't have the time or logistical ability for.

Whether you believe the things I've written or not, just go ahead and jump in. Maybe you *won't* find a gf, maybe you're right. But it'll be diverting to look, yeah? Just try to project some degree of confidence... if you do find an interested woman, don't tell her how puzzled you are that she's into you. ;)
 
Thanks, AnnabelMore and Phy! :) I am obviously looking for insights by outsiders, and all thoughtful comments are welcome. I am not so much looking for "dating" advice as for pointers as to how to behave in the poly world so that I can function more effectively in it. And who knows, some of what I say may also resonate with others. In a world where "The Big Bang Theory" is a hit, I am clearly not the only person with predicaments such as mine.

On dating, I don't particularly want to date at all - in my experience it is a highly unnatural activity. It would be best to bypass it altogether. Within two or three weeks of meeting my wife, we were not dating any more, we were just together in most of our free time, as if we were meant to be that way. We even stopped keeping our finances apart, it was too much of a bother.

But, realistically, it is unlikely to happen like that in a new poly relationship, for how else can two people get to know each other? I am retired and I don't (aside from going to poly meetings) engage in many activities where I get to meet the same people over and over again. So, should I meet someone (in person or online) even remotely compatible, I will have to ask her to get together for coffee, a walk in the park, a movie, and what are these if not dates?

AnnabelMore, indeed my wife had met others willing to take the plunge, in fact she was wary of such people. But our meeting was a once-in-the-lifetime experience, unlikely to happen again. Should it happen with someone else, I will be delighted, but for now I would be happy with a nice easy-going girlfriend even if the compatibility factor is not in the stratospheres.

---------------------

Of course, one likely possibility is a partner who is already in one or more existing relationships. But how to even start talking to such a person? The typical pattern I see is for women to come to poly meetings with a partner who seems to be quite protective. They sit together, they react to others like any other couple in a social setting. I know it's my attitudes that have to change here, but I find it hard to imagine how to go up to someone with a husband/boyfriend nearby and say "Hey, we seem to have something in common, would you like to have coffee with me sometime?".

And since most such suggestions are likely to be met with a (possibly friendly) no, I will have to relearn to deal with rejection, not a pleasant emotion at all. After all, most men my age play golf or something...
 
OP, i don't know if you do Facebook or not, but my Spouse and i put "Open Relationship" in our profiles and tagged each other in them so that anyone potentially interested in pursuing a relationship with one of us could see that it was out there and could even check out the other partner or interact with them independently. I feel that this has helped facilitate at least one "other" relationship. Of course, it isn't really a way to meet new people, but a way to break the non-monogamy ice with people we've already met without putting them in the position of having to be pro-active when it comes to bringing up that topic in conversation. Also, it helps if you're not worried about being "outed" to family, colleagues, people at church, or whoever, without having to customize the privacy settings.
 
OP, i don't know if you do Facebook or not, but my Spouse and i put "Open Relationship" in our profiles and tagged each other in them so that anyone potentially interested in pursuing a relationship with one of us could see that it was out there and could even check out the other partner or interact with them independently. I feel that this has helped facilitate at least one "other" relationship. Of course, it isn't really a way to meet new people, but a way to break the non-monogamy ice with people we've already met without putting them in the position of having to be pro-active when it comes to bringing up that topic in conversation. Also, it helps if you're not worried about being "outed" to family, colleagues, people at church, or whoever, without having to customize the privacy settings.

Thanks, BoringGuy (which I am sure you are not :) )

This brings up the topic of coming out to one's friends and family, which is quite another topic from what we are discussing here.

I am on Facebook, and for a while I did put "Open" into my profile. One reaction I got was from a former girlfriend, who is quite "protective" of my marriage, as are quite a few of our friends - it seems that we represent for many people an idealized form of marriage (we have been together happily for 30 years, after all), and they would hate to see it fall apart. Anyway, my friend asked me if B. (my wife) knew about my "Open" status (of course she did), and gave me a little lecture on how being open was just a prelude to splitting up in her experience.

I decided not to open myself to further discussions of this kind, so I changed my status back to plain "married" on Facebook. Interestingly, not so much because I am worried about my friends' displeasure, although that is also a concern - yes, my friends do matter, and I'd hate to worsen my relationship with them on this account. But, mostly, because I don't want to be seen by friends and relatives as "cruising" - it's a rather pathetic image at my age and state in life. If I did find somebody, I have little doubt that I would be able to handle it quite well, because I usually handle life-changing situations well. I already have quite a few female friends, I can always introduce another such friend to my social circle if need be - it's no-one's business who sleeps with whom and when, after all. My children would probably catch on, but even if not, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
 
I think people are over complicating this. The real answer is:

Just look for women who like intellectual, serious, unconventional men. :)

Be careful talking about "majorities." Doing so robs people of their individuality.

You said you had no problem having women as friends... so it sounds like women DO like you. They enjoy your company and like what you have to offer. Maybe your problem is not knowing how to make things sexual/romantic. Hell, maybe your only "problem" was just missing these friends' signals that they would have been interested in more.
 
Yes, it's no one else's business who sleeps with whom, but being in the closet gets old real quick. I imagine that it's cool if your wife holds your hand in public, gives you a long hug goodbye, says hello with a peck on the cheek -- a potential gf would probably want to have that same freedom, in time. You certainly can cross that bridge when you get to it, but it's something to keep in mind...
 
I think people are over complicating this. The real answer is:

Just look for women who like intellectual, serious, unconventional men. :)

Be careful talking about "majorities." Doing so robs people of their individuality.

You said you had no problem having women as friends... so it sounds like women DO like you. They enjoy your company and like what you have to offer. Maybe your problem is not knowing how to make things sexual/romantic. Hell, maybe your only "problem" was just missing these friends' signals that they would have been interested in more.

Right on the spot, onoma, that is exactly the problem. I am not by nature particularly observant when it comes to interpreting other peoples' emotions anyway, but my rather unusual teenage years added to this difficulty. My parents took me from my native environment (a Central European country), put me through a high school education where I hardly passed two successive years with the same fellow students, then brought me to Canada where I was dropped straight into a university environment where most of my peers had gone through the usual North American high school system I had no experience with at all.

Different people would deal with the kind of loneliness I experienced in different ways - personally, I learned to be able to entertain myself and not depend too much on others. Eventually I learned how to create a good social life for myself, which is why I have lots of friends - but playing the seduction game is something else and I never became good at it. Which is why I come back to playing up my strengths, which includes the willingness to try for long-term mono life.

Clearly, in the poly world this won't do, and if I want to enlarge my circle of sexual/sentimental partners, I have to learn how to play up my other strengths, and to interpret other peoples' signals better.

Oh why, oh why, can't people be more explicit? I am not so clueless that I won't catch obvious signals. Once, in my premarital days, I was having dinner with some friends and acquaintances, and the woman sitting opposite me started to stroke my feet under the table. I had no doubt as to what that meant! But few people are that obvious... :)
 
Yes, it's no one else's business who sleeps with whom, but being in the closet gets old real quick. I imagine that it's cool if your wife holds your hand in public, gives you a long hug goodbye, says hello with a peck on the cheek -- a potential gf would probably want to have that same freedom, in time. You certainly can cross that bridge when you get to it, but it's something to keep in mind...

Thanks Annabel, of course I'll keep it in mind. In our couple, we have never been big on public displays of affection, it's more like continuous teasing banter, something that even some mono friends have noticeably become jealous about. "How can you guys have that when I can't?", seems to be how they feel.

But I don't feel that I am in a closet. For now I keep my newly acquired poly interest private, in part because how will it feel if, say after a few years, it becomes clear that no poly woman (aside from my wife) will touch me with a ten-foot pole? Few people like to be known as failures.
 
Right on the spot, onoma, that is exactly the problem. I am not by nature particularly observant when it comes to interpreting other peoples' emotions anyway, but my rather unusual teenage years added to this difficulty. My parents took me from my native environment (a Central European country), put me through a high school education where I hardly passed two successive years with the same fellow students, then brought me to Canada where I was dropped straight into a university environment where most of my peers had gone through the usual North American high school system I had no experience with at all.

Different people would deal with the kind of loneliness I experienced in different ways - personally, I learned to be able to entertain myself and not depend too much on others. Eventually I learned how to create a good social life for myself, which is why I have lots of friends - but playing the seduction game is something else and I never became good at it. Which is why I come back to playing up my strengths, which includes the willingness to try for long-term mono life.

Clearly, in the poly world this won't do, and if I want to enlarge my circle of sexual/sentimental partners, I have to learn how to play up my other strengths, and to interpret other peoples' signals better.

Oh why, oh why, can't people be more explicit? I am not so clueless that I won't catch obvious signals. Once, in my premarital days, I was having dinner with some friends and acquaintances, and the woman sitting opposite me started to stroke my feet under the table. I had no doubt as to what that meant! But few people are that obvious... :)

I don't think wanting a relationship was ever your strength! Frankly from your background I suspect you can/will do great once you get past your insecurity about this.

Well, you could look up some stuff on body language and signals. There are even "pick up artist" web sites out there that can help you learn that stuff. (A lot of crap on those sites, but some good stuff too for those of us who don't quite "get it" on our own.)

BUT... frankly you're overthinking it. If YOU are interested, make it apparent. You could spend your life wondering if a woman is interested in you, only to watch her go out with the guy who was direct and asked her out.
 
I don't think wanting a relationship was ever your strength!

Well, if I didn't want a relationship strongly, how did I end up in one lasting over thirty years? Raising two kids, living on three continents. If I didn't want strongly to be with my wife, she would have decamped ages ago. While she doesn't mind me being poly, she would strongly mind not being wanted.

Frankly from your background I suspect you can/will do great once you get past your insecurity about this.

Oh I know I will, if I meet the right person.

I am not sure what you mean by insecurities. I am not particularly insecure, although I don't like to be turned down, even in little things. Most people don't. My wife says she admires me for even putting myself out there, where I can be turned down and made to feel inadequate. She wouldn't do it - but then she is happily mono and is content to just have me for company.

Well, you could look up some stuff on body language and signals. There are even "pick up artist" web sites out there that can help you learn that stuff. (A lot of crap on those sites, but some good stuff too for those of us who don't quite "get it" on our own.)

Oh, Neil Strauss and his ilk. I have his books, I found them in - of all places - Beijing, China. Can't say I haven't thought of trying out some of his tricks. Let me see - I dress up in shiny black leather, I put on sunglasses (over my real ones? how does that work?), I start imitating Joey in Friends as I go up to strangers and say profundities like "How are you doing", with the right kind of intonation. Then measure the angle at which I face my potential partner, and the exact distance to her face, for such things matter, it seems. Oh, and pretend that I am not interested in her, in fact that I seriously doubt that she would ever do it for me. It's called Neg-ing, I think.

The main problem is that the kind of woman I hope to meet will see through me in an instant, and realize that I am playing games. And no, the kind of woman I like doesn't like to play games like that at all. If I have a particular strength (in addition to being steady and intelligent) it's that I am genuine and straightforward.

BUT... frankly you're overthinking it. If YOU are interested, make it apparent. You could spend your life wondering if a woman is interested in you, only to watch her go out with the guy who was direct and asked her out.

Of course you are right. I do overthink it, it's in my nature to do so. Maybe the best I can do is to have a drink or two on social occasions, for that will decrease my propensity to overthink, analyze and project, and bring out the imp in me.
 
Well, if I didn't want a relationship strongly, how did I end up in one lasting over thirty years? Raising two kids, living on three continents. If I didn't want strongly to be with my wife, she would have decamped ages ago. While she doesn't mind me being poly, she would strongly mind not being wanted.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying you don't or shouldn't want a relationship. I'm saying that you have other strengths. You've lived on three continents, making you worldly. You can probably break out a decent accent, right? Women love accents. Everything you listed in your first post is a strength rather than a liability, especially around the right women. Hell, just being married makes you more attractive to women.

I am not sure what you mean by insecurities. I am not particularly insecure,

Really? In your first post you listed qualities about yourself as liabilities. You kept asking why anyone would want to be with you. Those are not signs of confidence. Saying you're too intellectual actually makes it sound like you're embarrassed about being smart!



Oh, Neil Strauss and his ilk. I have his books, I found them in - of all places - Beijing, China. Can't say I haven't thought of trying out some of his tricks. Let me see - I dress up in shiny black leather, I put on sunglasses (over my real ones? how does that work?), I start imitating Joey in Friends as I go up to strangers and say profundities like "How are you doing", with the right kind of intonation. Then measure the angle at which I face my potential partner, and the exact distance to her face, for such things matter, it seems. Oh, and pretend that I am not interested in her, in fact that I seriously doubt that she would ever do it for me. It's called Neg-ing, I think.

Here's my observation on the whole "PUA" thing:

Some people need help. I had no idea how to talk to or approach women when I first read The Game. In fact, the thought of women being susceptible to those tricks depressed me terribly! But I did try a few of them, the ones that seemed the least silly and the least cruel (for instance I would never "neg.")

Did they work? Well, I got mixed results. In the end, I don't think the value of PUA is the tricks. It's that it gets you to start trying. I mean really trying, not hanging out with a bunch of female friends and hoping like you were before. It certainly doesn't mean thinking no women will be interested in you because you're intellectual or unconventional.

It means that when you find a woman attractive, you tell her so and ask her out.


The main problem is that the kind of woman I hope to meet will see through me in an instant, and realize that I am playing games.

Oh right, at the start I suggested the PUA stuff to learn body language... not to learn pick-up lines and tricks. There are websites and even books that basically tell you "when a woman looks at you this way, it's a sign she's interested." Some people just aren't great at reading body language, but learning what to look for can help. You can also buy regular books on body language, but they won't be as focused on what you're looking for.

And no, the kind of woman I like doesn't like to play games like that at all. If I have a particular strength (in addition to being steady and intelligent) it's that I am genuine and straightforward.

Good. Now I have a question though... if you're straightforward, were you just not interested in your female friends or did you have trouble telling them you were?

Of course you are right. I do overthink it, it's in my nature to do so. Maybe the best I can do is to have a drink or two on social occasions, for that will decrease my propensity to overthink, analyze and project, and bring out the imp in me.

A drink or two does help. Overthinking does not help!
 
Hi Onoma, thank you for taking my thoughts seriously, and for going to the trouble of answering them.

Basically, what I am trying to do is to bounce off my ideas to people knowledgeable about the poly scene, so that I can improve my chances in their world.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying you don't or shouldn't want a relationship. I'm saying that you have other strengths. You've lived on three continents, making you worldly. You can probably break out a decent accent, right? Women love accents. Everything you listed in your first post is a strength rather than a liability, especially around the right women. Hell, just being married makes you more attractive to women.

Actually, I have lived on four continents - just on three with my wife. And of course I have an accent, I am Hungarian by birth. Think George Soros, if you ever heard him - although I don't have his billions.

I don't think I am that unattractive to women, but whether I am attractive enough for them to want to sleep with me without a mono bond is the question. I have little doubt that I could find someone reasonable if I was single and offered permanence.

Really? In your first post you listed qualities about yourself as liabilities. You kept asking why anyone would want to be with you. Those are not signs of confidence. Saying you're too intellectual actually makes it sound like you're embarrassed about being smart!

No, they are not liabilities, but they are not (necessarily) enough.

Your main thesis holds true though. Approach women with confidence, and the game is half won. I have to keep that in mind.



Good. Now I have a question though... if you're straightforward, were you just not interested in your female friends or did you have trouble telling them you were?

Here we are getting into another area, worthy of discussion in another thread. What do you mean by interested?

One of these friends I was totally infatuated with at one time, oh she could be very certain of that. I would have done anything for her, including marry her on the spot, and she knew it. I became quite good at writing love letters - these were pre-e-mail times. And I succeeeded too, to a certain extent - but in the end she married someone else, more is the pity. (Although I am pretty sure my marriage with her wouldn't have fared as well in the long term as my actual one)

But that's because I really wanted her. Other female friends were OK, and they could have bedded me if they wanted to (and some did, at least once or twice), but I was not in love with them, and it's difficult to express such sentiments very well without hurting someone's feelings and possibly endangering the friendship. Especially in a mono world.

A drink or two does help. Overthinking does not help!

Thanks, and I'll drink a toast to you at the next poly party I go to! :)
 
I find it somewhat unattractive when somebody approaches the pursuit of sexual/romantic partners like a science. It feels to me as if I'm being approached as a representative of my gender, not as a person. With the whole "in the dating world this will not work" and "my only really obvious dating-world strength was monogamy (because that's what women want in exchange for sex) and now I don't even have that"... Sorry, but to me that feels creepy and sexist.

Since you don't want some general woman maybe not generalise women into some weird poly-dating-homogenous-mass? Maybe not think about poly dating as something completely foreign with some rulebook you need to learn to attract women (since there is not one, because women are people and, thus, will be attracted to different things). Do you really think your dating experiences from 30 years ago are very relevant for now? You don't relate to other things and relationships in your life as you did three decades ago (I assume), why would you do so with dating?

My advice: stop thinking about attracting women/partners as a game. Start to think about meeting cool people, some of whom might be interested in you, as a new aspect of your life, which is not that different from other aspects of your life. Be yourself and have fun.
 
Hi Onoma, thank you for taking my thoughts seriously, and for going to the trouble of answering them.

No prob. :)

Actually, I have lived on four continents - just on three with my wife. And of course I have an accent, I am Hungarian by birth. Think George Soros, if you ever heard him - although I don't have his billions.

Never heard George speak, but I have a Hungarian friend so...

...but whether I am attractive enough for them to want to sleep with me without a mono bond is the question.

*sigh*

There's that insecurity again. A good portion of what women find attractive is your attitude. An even bigger portion is your clothes. Stupid, Ugly guys who are confident and well dressed get laid. Smart, reasonably attractive guys mostly shoot themselves in the foot by over thinking things and being insecure.

Here we are getting into another area, worthy of discussion in another thread. What do you mean by interested?

One of these friends I was totally infatuated with at one time, oh she could be very certain of that. I would have done anything for her, including marry her on the spot, and she knew it. I became quite good at writing love letters - these were pre-e-mail times. And I succeeeded too, to a certain extent - but in the end she married someone else, more is the pity. (Although I am pretty sure my marriage with her wouldn't have fared as well in the long term as my actual one)

In other words you were in the friend zone. What do you mean by succeeded to a certain extent?

But that's because I really wanted her. Other female friends were OK, and they could have bedded me if they wanted to (and some did, at least once or twice),

If they wanted too... look, individuality aside there's actually a lot of pressure on women NOT to make a first move as there's still a certain amount of judgement in our society. There even seems to be some subconscious reasons that women prefer when men make the first move. It taps into that whole confidence thing. Boldness counts.

Even if they wanted to, most women won't say anything until you do.

but I was not in love with them, and it's difficult to express such sentiments very well without hurting someone's feelings and possibly endangering the friendship. Especially in a mono world.

It can be difficult if you put too much importance on things. You have this overarching idea that women only want sex in terms of a monogamous relationship. Or at least that monogamy is something you can barter for sex. Think about it though... if that were true, there wouldn't even BE a polyamorous world. Or at least not a heterosexual one...

There's nothing wrong with telling someone you think they're attractive. There's nothing wrong with flirting. In fact, the only thing you should worry about is being clear about your intentions in regards to not wanting a relationship. In fact, that should all be even easier in a poly setting.

Just try not to be vulgar about it.


Thanks, and I'll drink a toast to you at the next poly party I go to! :)

:)
 
I find it somewhat unattractive when somebody approaches the pursuit of sexual/romantic partners like a science.

Unfortunately that's just how some of us think. Guys who are good at getting women seldom stop to think about it. They just seem to know what to do. There are guys like me, and PolyLinguist to some extent, that really DON'T know what to do... so we need lots of help.

Luckily, we're not trying to hit on you right now. :)

It feels to me as if I'm being approached as a representative of my gender, not as a person. With the whole "in the dating world this will not work" and "my only really obvious dating-world strength was monogamy (because that's what women want in exchange for sex) and now I don't even have that"... Sorry, but to me that feels creepy and sexist.

If you think about it though, isn't that what our culture has told us for a couple generations? How much TV out there shows women only wanting sex in a committed relationship? Depicts guys as scumbags if they want sex without commitment? How often does the guy who waits patiently and "really loves" the girl end up with her in the end? Everything we saw growing up tells us that women only want sex in a monogamous relationship, and that the guy who waits patiently gets the girl while the guy who is a "player" loses out.


My advice: stop thinking about attracting women/partners as a game. Start to think about meeting cool people, some of whom might be interested in you, as a new aspect of your life, which is not that different from other aspects of your life. Be yourself and have fun.

Agree 100%. :)
 
I find it somewhat unattractive when somebody approaches the pursuit of sexual/romantic partners like a science. It feels to me as if I'm being approached as a representative of my gender, not as a person. With the whole "in the dating world this will not work" and "my only really obvious dating-world strength was monogamy (because that's what women want in exchange for sex) and now I don't even have that"... Sorry, but to me that feels creepy and sexist.

To be fair, rory, I never said that my only really obvious dating-world strength was monogamy. I said it was the trump card that might tilt things in my favour. And no, I don't think that monogamy is what women want in exchange for sex. But whatever they want (and this changes from woman to woman, and even for the same woman, changes depending on her stage of life), my qualities were rarely sufficient in my pre-marital life.

Now, one of the prevailing myths of the modern era is that we should try to be authentic, true to our own self. Well, had I remained authentic, doing just things that I liked doing (and was pretty good at), I might have ended up the proverbial 40-year-old virgin. Of course I had to change myself, and when I decide to do something, I tend to do it in a systematic, logical, scientific way. That's the way I am, after all, I can be permitted to be authentic to that extent, right? And now it's time to do further changes - this is good psychologically anyway, for I don't want to become an elderly fuddy-duddy, incapable of coming out of my comfort zone.

As for the monogamy card, it was certainly a trump card in my marriage, which turned out to be extremely good, as I think people will agree. When I met my wife, she was in a transition state, planning to go overseas with CUSO (the Canadian equivalent of the Peace Corps). I could have been as smart, charming and sexy as you want - but if it came out that I had a girlfriend (let alone a wife), or had unresolved emotional issues with someone else, she would not have changed her life plans. Nice to have met you, goodbye. Throw in the fact that I was single and capable and willing of long-term commitment, now that's another story.

I suppose I could think of my other qualities as trump cards as well (my wife wouldn't have married someone just for being single, in fact she had had plenty of offers), but those qualities come pretty natural to me, I don't have to worry about them.

Since you don't want some general woman maybe not generalise women into some weird poly-dating-homogenous-mass? Maybe not think about poly dating as something completely foreign with some rulebook you need to learn to attract women (since there is not one, because women are people and, thus, will be attracted to different things). Do you really think your dating experiences from 30 years ago are very relevant for now? You don't relate to other things and relationships in your life as you did three decades ago (I assume), why would you do so with dating?

Actually, I do relate to most things in a fairly constant way. In my mind I am like a 20-year old, eager to go out and explore the world in all its wonders, and to find friends whatever I do. I am pretty good at it, too. I moved back to Vancouver last year, after more than 30 years absence, and I have made quite a few new friends, and I have immersed myself in a number of social groups, of which the local poly scene is just one.

From your comments (and those of others on this thread), one thing is obvious: I have created a somewhat skewed image of myself. That's because (getting back to one's true nature again), it is in my nature to immerse myself fully in whatever I do. Right now I am engaged in an online discussion of a hot topic (sex and dating, what could be hotter?), so I immerse myself in the discussion, revealing my innermost thoughts. This is what I think about, right now. I am intellectualizing, right now.

But come next Saturday, for example, and I am going to a Christmas Party organized by the local poly group. I assure you, I am not going to over-intellectualize anything. I will talk to a lot of people, I will approach those I find attractive and try to find common ground - I'll do what other normal people do on such occasions. My main problem is neither an inability to approach people nor being overly intellectual, but in sustaining conversations beyond the initial banter, unless there is a lot of intellectual overlap (as there was when I met my wife). But such meetings are rare, say they happen once a decade - hardly often enough to base my conversational skills on. Therefore I have to force myself to be more attentive in my conversations to what the other person wants to talk about.

My advice: stop thinking about attracting women/partners as a game. Start to think about meeting cool people, some of whom might be interested in you, as a new aspect of your life, which is not that different from other aspects of your life. Be yourself and have fun.

Done and thank you!
 
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