Which way to turn?

Sorry, guess I should have been more clear. He had not mentioned it to her yet. Only to the hosts of the party to make sure it was okay. It really wasn't something to be upset over, but I was.


In other news, the husband and I finaly read this thread together and had a long conversation about things. I am feeling a lot better about where things stand and why things happened in the first place.

LR- He says he totaly sympathizes with you. While he was only out for the sex, he does understand and agree with a lot of what you said about the ins and outs of being the other party. That really helped getting us talking. And helping him put feelings into words which is something he has never been good at.

I have high hopes for our future. I know it won't be easy. We both want to fix things but are staring at the toolbox with no idea which tool to use or how. That was his analogy and I really like it.

AK- he says he is fine with me having a b/f or a g/f, as long as they are treating me right. Though ultimately he wants his g/f and I to get back on better ground and see where that leads. I dunno if that will happen or not. I'm not against it, but not sure if I can look at her like that now. I feel really detached to that at the moment.

He says he never understood monogomy. He didn't see a point to it. He loves me and is committed and loyal to me, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to see what else is out there. His whole sex without emotional attachment thing. She wasn't supposed to happen, but she did. I asked if they broke up if he would go out looking for someone else and he says he doesn't think so, though he will still want sex with new people.

I can understand that, knowing him as well as I do. He likes the hunt. The thrill of flirting and getting to know someone. I am never going to be new. I understand that. And I also understand there are things I give him that he won't get from anyone else. He also says that at the times when things are good he has less urge to look elsewhere. So we'll see where that goes.

I think we are on the right path. No where near fixed, but a lot further ahead than I thought we would be a week into this.
 
happy to report that the only drama of the night was that husbands g/f's ex showed up at the party. As far as the three of us went, things were great, she and I were able to talk for a bit and I had no negative emotions at all.

Was also kissed about 4 times by a friend that has apparently had the hubby's permission for about a yr now. Guess he didn't decide to act until he saw my husband with his g/f. I've kissed 2 other men in the 8 yrs I have been with my husband, and never felt anything. Tonight was different. And while I am not interested in pursuing anything until the husband and I are in a better place. It was good to know that I am capable of having those stirrings for someone other than my husband or a female. Makes me think most of my concern about monogomy was how I was raised not what I believe. But it is still a learning process. Will be an interesting new path to explore one day.
 
LOL, That is awesome Mohegan! Go You!
I will post more later. Just wanted to say that you are doing so well!
 
Everything is spinning so much faster than I expected. My heart is open to things I never thought possible. The guy who kissed me at the party has been talking with me a lot more than normal. We are close friends, but we never really talk outside of in person. So this whole phone/IM contact is weird. I look at my husband everynight and say thank you. I get it. It seems maybe his affair was the best thing for us. My fears were because I didn't understand it, and I didn't understand b/c I wouldn't let myself think outside of my little box. So much has happened in the last 3wks and I'm dealing with it. I don't feel overwhelmed at all. I'm living in the moments of my life. It's an amazing way to live.
 
Yay MO!

I am wishing you a pleasing and joyous journey.

Lots of deep breathing. Oxygen is totally under-rated! LOL.

xoxo
sumx3
 
Thank Sum, I'm still pretty giddy over things.

But I have really had my eyes opened in the last 3wks. I'm remembering why I closed everything up in the first place. When I first got really sick, I was so afraid he'd get sick of me that he'd leave. So I tried to reign him in as tightly as could. Probably the biggest mistake made.

I've figured out that I couldn't understand where he was coming from because I forgot what it was like to have those feelings. I had shut everything off b/c I was so afraid I would be the one to cheat. In the process of my illness and shutting everything down, I pretty much became a shell of who I was. I forgot how to live. How to be happy.

For years I've been trying to get part of my old self back and couldn't figure out how. Now I know why I kept failing. Finding my sexuality has brought back other parts of me as well. It's all been so amazing.

My husband is spending time with his girlfriend tonight b/c we are leaving for vacation tomorrow. At first I was grumpy that he wanted to spend time alone with her, but I reminded myself of all the time he and I have had together in the last weeks and decided to let him do what he wanted. And he's now decided to come home with her and cook us both dinner.

I still have glimmers of trust issues. I was partialy afraid they would find somewhere to have sex tonight. We currently have a no sex rule until we fix us. I don't see it needing to last for a very long time, just long enough to make sure he and I are back where we need to be. But I don't think he will. I think he knows it'll happen soon enough and if he screws up again I'm gone. Without trust we have nothing. As much as our love has held us together, without trust, we'll never be happy.

I feel like I am reawakening. Like I am emerging from a cacoon.
 
I hope that you are having a WONDERFILLED vacation and enjoying time with your guy.

Your transformation sounds YUMMY and worth the effort!

I know that trust issues are HUGE around these parts. I feel like I have a leg up on that one due to the teachings (and learnings, ugh... the LEARNINGS!) of my earlier years. It is not a new concept and I am SURE that it must be covered SOMEWHERE here in this forum.

But just in case it can be of use to you or anyone else, here it is.

And sincerely, I beg a pardon for the long post.

Trust is never about the other person. Ever.
It is about me (or you, if you like).
It is not that I don't trust my husband, it is that I don't trust myself to be able to handle it if he does _____________ (fill in the blank)

Using this concept has helped me to gain much independence and respect for clear and basic rules where needed.

WHY don't I trust my ability to handle ____________(fill in the blank)?
Once I have the answer to that I can work on creating what I need, IF I WANT AND IF IT IS REASONABLE, to be able to handle __________________ (fill in the blank).

It would take far to much space to go into the finer details of the meditation, but that is the simple basis.

This little meditation has helped me to grow as a person and has, I feel, helped me to make deep consensual relationships that are based harmony and choice, rather than (co)dependency and fear.

I know this goes against the thread of "It takes time to build or rebuild trust" but once I learned to trust myself, I was amazed at how quick, easy and even unimportant that trusting others became, regardless of past breaches of trust.

Sure, there have been situations and scenarios where-in i did not feel safe with someone, but instead of coming from a place of "not trusting" it was from a place of simply not wanting to put up with someones B.S. That is a whole different spin. Very empowering.

A metaphor, I like metaphors.
Lending money. Good advice is to never lend money if you can't live without it's return. I am sure that we all have friends and relatives, that we KNOW are not going to return the money that we "lend" them and we say to ourselves "I will never see that $100 again". And you trust that you can live without that $100 or you choose not to "lend" it regardless of how vehemently the swear that they will pay us back.

Sorry for the ramble!
I will look forward to hearing how your vacation went.

sumx3
 
Things are still going so well! Vacation has been great, we went on a date to see a friend of mine in a play and then to see another friend for her birthday. It was like when we were dating. We danced, we laughed, we had a really good time. I was in a bit of pain the next morning, but it was so worth it. My husband has really taken to heart the things I asked to see improvment on. He's been so easy going, willing to help without argument, compromising, giving compliments, showing that he wants to spend time with me.

I struggled a little today. I got onto facebook and thought it was my page and realised while reading e-mails it was his. He had sent a message to his girlfriend telling her that her new pictures take his breath away. He doesn't ever say things like that to me. I had a moment of wondering why, I started to get scared again that maybe all this is a facade and he is using me for a place to live ( everything is in my name or my parents, if I divorce him, there isn't much he'll get as most was bought before we got married). I talked myself out of my mini freak out. There are a number of reasons why he doesn't say things like that to me. The biggest being he never has, which I assume means he doesn't think I need to hear it. I don't want to whine and say I want more romantic talk, it seems to me if he doesn't say it, he hasn't thought to say it so asking for it cheapens it. And I don't want an identical relationship to the one he has with her. We have our unique relationship and they have theirs. There is nothing wrong with that, it's what makes it work.

It just kind of struck me for a moment. I'm in a better frame of mind now, but it reminded me that even though things are going so well, they aren't fixed yet. I just hope I am giving to him what he wanted fixed the way he is for me.

Other than that I am having a great time seeing my niece and the rest of my family. Hope everyone is enjoying the begining to their week.
 
Maybe he is a serial cheater. But I think it is more that to him sex is sex and love is love and they do not need to meet. We have been discussing a poly lifestyle for yrs. But it seems like everytime I get to a point of trusting him and being okay with it, I find out he cheated.

For some people, I wonder if they just think cheating is better than being honest about it, because being honest about it means they'll have to live up to your expectations, stay within your boundaries. I hear a lot of women say "I don't mind if he sees her, but no sex until I'm more comfortable with it." And that is 100% valid and justified. But from that man's perspective, it means they can't have sex. Whereas if they avoid the whole honesty thing and just have an affair, they get to have sex.

They probably assume they'll get away with it so it won't hurt you, and they'll get to have their cake and eat it too.

He has mentioned he doesn't mind me having a gf as long as he gets to watch, lol. Men! (no offense guys!)

*barf* Yech. Blargh.

Selfish!!!

So he gets to have whatever kind of relationship he wants, but if you want the same thing, no dice? Gimme a BREAK!

This kind of attitude just pisses me off. It makes it sound like your husband sees women as sex objects, created solely for his personal arousal and satisfaction. Which explains why he cheats so freely - doesn't respect you or the other women he sleeps with. Objectifies them.

I'm not usually much of a feminist, except when confronted with blatant misogyny like this!
 
I struggled a little today. I gotonto facebook and thought it was my page and realised while reading e-mails it was his. He had sent a message to his girlfriend telling her that her new pictures take his breath away. He doesn't ever say things like that to me. I had a moment of wondering why, I started to get scared again that maybe all this is a facade and he is using me for a place to live ( everything is in my name or my parents, if I divorce him, there isn't much he'll get as most was bought before we got married). I talked myself out of my mini freak out. There are a number of reasons why he doesn't say things like that to me. The biggest being he never has, which I assume means he doesn't think I need to hear it.

No matter how well you are doing it is always hard to find those things that he writes to his girlfriend. It doesn't take away from what he feels for you. It is just hard to see what he feels for another woman or significant other. But how you handle it from there is important. I know it was never easy for me whenever I would come across texts or conversations between DH and J. But then I would remind myself or I would tell him I read this or that so that he could remind me if I needed it that his love for me is still as strong and what he did with her never took away from that. And this always made me feel better and I would be good as new again. It is just apart of getting through those beginning stages.
 
*barf* Yech. Blargh.

Selfish!!!

So he gets to have whatever kind of relationship he wants, but if you want the same thing, no dice? Gimme a BREAK!

This kind of attitude just pisses me off. It makes it sound like your husband sees women as sex objects, created solely for his personal arousal and satisfaction. Which explains why he cheats so freely - doesn't respect you or the other women he sleeps with. Objectifies them.

I'm not usually much of a feminist, except when confronted with blatant misogyny like this!

Schrodingers,
I think you misunderstood me. My DH most certaintly does not objectify women and the whole thing about me only getting gf if he can watch was purely a joke that we had. Hence the "LOL" in there. He clearly states to me that it takes a strong person to be able to share their SO's love and while he appreciates and is amazed by how I do it he doesn't know if he would be as strong because he is an extremely jealous type. And I don't argue or push this simply because I am not the least bit interested in becoming poly myself. If I ever met someone that I became interested in, then DH and I have already had that discussion that I would come to him and talk things over. If he is comfortable enough for a very slow friendship to relationship to start then I would do that. But if he can't get comfortable then I would walk away from the secondary. My DH is my whole life and he does anything in the world for me and loves me unconditionally. We just both have our own ways for doing things. And I kind of like that he gets so jealous. It makes me feel very loved and wanted. I know that is wierd. I love him more than life itself. And he feels that by me stepping aside and letting him do this with his life. We know how to show each other our love and this is how we do it.

I don't know how he treated the women before J. I hardly knew them. The only one I met face to face I couldn't care less how he treated her because she was truly a slut and a bitch and I can't stand the mention of her name for what she tried to do to not only my marriage but how she wanted to take over my family completely. But I do know he treated J with respect and always spoke highly of her. In the beginning when I wanted to hate her he wouldn't let me and did everything in his power to point all the blame on himself and then helped me forgive her and become friends with her. So this is another reason I know he completely respects women, especially the ones he loves.
 
Well, if you're ok with it then far be it for me to tell you what's right.

One thing I do know is that when I brought up poly with my husband, his one adamant thing was that I was free to have whatever kinds of relationships I wanted - as long as he was, too. He also said at the time that he didn't even really want other relationships, that one was more than enough work... but it was important to him that he be allowed to have the same things I wanted.

Even though you don't want other relationships, the fact that your husband has said it would be so difficult for him is a good reason for him to work through it, as a thought experiment and practice. It's one thing to say "it's really difficult what you're doing, I couldn't" ... but if he tried, it would give him motivation to keep his own behaviour in check, a proper first-hand respect for what you're going through. After all, why should you be the only one to do all the hard work?
 
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It's one thing to say "it's really difficult what you're doing, I couldn't" ... but if he tried, it would give him motivation to keep his own behaviour in check, a proper first-hand respect for what you're going through. After all, why should you be the only one to do all the hard work?

Interesting point. I know there is a difference in feeling jealous about something and feeling insecure about a situation or relationship. It is pretty empowering to face those fears, work through them as you mentioned and come out of it with whole new outlook on life and one's own self-actualization. I applaud AK for being able to allow herself to experience this and grow as a person because of her bravery in sticking to it. I am not so sure her DH could do the same, I would hope that he would make the effort. I don't know if 2R can really do it...although he shares me with my husband they are not working on their relationship at all, nor do they ever want the other mentioned in any collegial way. Hopefully that changes. I am not so sure I could be as diligent or stalwart in my efforts if another person was added to the mix. Maybe I could. But it would be a mighty struggle. My plate seems very full at the moment. I wonder if P decided to add someone how I would handle that dynamic? Or if 2R had the crazy notion he had one more minute to spare for maintaing another romantic interest? What if KT or I added another to our little association? YIKES! Too much bouncing around in the brain at nearly 3am! ARGH! Anyway good job to both AK and KT for working so hard!:cool:
 
Are you nuts!

:eek:No, I will not be looking to add another romantic interest, MG. You and KT are have probably taken 10 years off my life in the last year. Two is plenty.
 
:eek:No, I will not be looking to add another romantic interest, MG. You and KT are have probably taken 10 years off my life in the last year. Two is plenty.

Hmmmm since you act and dress like a 70 year old man then I guess I should talk KT into uppin the life insurance policy on ya...one foot in my friend!:p
 
To SchrodingersCat

*barf* Yech. Blargh.

Selfish!!!

So he gets to have whatever kind of relationship he wants, but if you want the same thing, no dice? Gimme a BREAK!

This kind of attitude just pisses me off. It makes it sound like your husband sees women as sex objects, created solely for his personal arousal and satisfaction. Which explains why he cheats so freely - doesn't respect you or the other women he sleeps with. Objectifies them.

I'm not usually much of a feminist, except when confronted with blatant misogyny like this!

I normally don't post on here...I read the board solely to keep in touch with how AK is feeling about everything, but when I read this I couldn't keep quiet, and she does know that I am planning to post in response.

Her husband is one of the best men that I have ever met. I am submissive by nature and have been objectified - with my consent - on many occassions. However, her husband has never made me feel that way and if you - for even one second - think that he does not respect his wife or me, you are sadly mistaken. I have seen him do everything in his power to take the blame for things so that neither of us has any harsh feelings toward the other one for anything going on. Not only does he respect both of us...he is very careful to make sure that each of us knows that.

While I will never agree with the double standards with which AK and I are both living now, our respective husbands are still amazing men. I truly believe that if AK found someone she was interested in pursuing this life with - although she has been perfectly clear in letting people know, that is not what she wants right now - that her DH would sit down and talk things through with her. They WOULD find a way to make it work because their love and RESPECT for each other is that strong. I hope that if she does find someone, that I will be here to help both of them through the transition period, because it will be an adjustment for both of them. I also believe that my DH and I will be able to get back to that point as well.

I think what annoyed me the most about your comments is that you are taking what was obviously a joke and making a judgement about a man that you know absolutely nothing about. I will agree that he hasn't always made the best decisions...neither have I, as evidenced by the pain that we caused AK...and I am sure that you have made some bad decisions yourself. But to make a judgement about him based only on those decisions is not fair to him.

I'm sorry if I offended everyone, but I can't sit back and let him be attacked even if he doesn't read this board to know that he is being attacked.

J
 
I normally don't post on here...I read the board solely to keep in touch with how AK is feeling about everything, but when I read this I couldn't keep quiet, and she does know that I am planning to post in response.

Her husband is one of the best men that I have ever met. I am submissive by nature and have been objectified - with my consent - on many occassions. However, her husband has never made me feel that way and if you - for even one second - think that he does not respect his wife or me, you are sadly mistaken. I have seen him do everything in his power to take the blame for things so that neither of us has any harsh feelings toward the other one for anything going on. Not only does he respect both of us...he is very careful to make sure that each of us knows that.

While I will never agree with the double standards with which AK and I are both living now, our respective husbands are still amazing men. I truly believe that if AK found someone she was interested in pursuing this life with - although she has been perfectly clear in letting people know, that is not what she wants right now - that her DH would sit down and talk things through with her. They WOULD find a way to make it work because their love and RESPECT for each other is that strong. I hope that if she does find someone, that I will be here to help both of them through the transition period, because it will be an adjustment for both of them. I also believe that my DH and I will be able to get back to that point as well.

I think what annoyed me the most about your comments is that you are taking what was obviously a joke and making a judgement about a man that you know absolutely nothing about. I will agree that he hasn't always made the best decisions...neither have I, as evidenced by the pain that we caused AK...and I am sure that you have made some bad decisions yourself. But to make a judgement about him based only on those decisions is not fair to him.

I'm sorry if I offended everyone, but I can't sit back and let him be attacked even if he doesn't read this board to know that he is being attacked.

J

LOL,
I wouldn't cross my girl. Forget a kitten, she's a bit of a tiger. Mreow! Love ya J.
 
Well we are finaly home. The wedding I officiated and husband was best man for, went off without any problems. Had a lot of fun quality time with my family. My husbands family went off the deepend with their antics, but that's what they do and why we only see them once a yr to see his brothers. Spent the night tonight with Husband and his girlfriend, and two other close friends. Things with the guy that kissed me at the party are still weird. He's still afraid that it will cause problems and sending all kinds of mixed signals and I'm feeling like a freaking highschooler wanting to have my friend ask if he likes me:eek: How pathetic is that?

It'll take me a bit to catch up on everything on here, but I hope everyone had a good few weeks.
 
Now I really don't know what I'm doing.

So husbands girlfriend was over for the evening, he is driving her home now. We had a great dinner together and I made a smores type dessert. We watched some movies and cuddled a bit. It was over all a good night.

At some point during the evening my husband pulled me outside to tell me he thought G/f wanted to have sex tonight (we have a no sex agreement for the moment while we straighten the whole after lieing and afair thing out) and he didn't think she wanted just him. ;) He wanted to know if I was ready for that, and that he wouldn't push it was up to me.

I was thrilled. I knew things would move forward, I just didn't expect it this fast. And I really have no idea if I'm ready. If I listen to my hormones, I was ready tonight, but I don't want to wake up in the morning and regret it. I want their relationship and our relationship together to be someting beautiful. Not marred by my thinking I'm ready when I'm not. I don't know what is holding me back. Shouldn't I be thrilled that they want to share their first time back together with me? And I am. Which is why I am so freaking confused. Something in me is setting off slow down alarms, but I don't know what it is so I don't know what else needs to occur for me to be comfortable.

So while watching movies we snuggled in bed together. She and I held hands and flirted a bit, he kissed us both and I felt comfortable with all of it. More than comfortable ;) but I still wouldn't let things progress. And I can't figure out why.

Has anyone been where I am? Anyone have any opinions on the matter? B/c I am usualy pretty in tune with myself and this not knowing is driving me crazy.
 
Been there, done that

Hey Mo,

Before DH and J went their own way with things we did the whole threesome thing. Little did I know there were some sexual exchanges with them that did not include me at the time as well. As far as I know it was nothing physical but there were some emails that I found.

But anyway, after I found out about them and all of his lies I told them both I would not participate anymore. I was too furious and hurt and betrayed. It was the one thing I had asked. To be included. But he got to the point again where he didn't want me included and he cheated again. Then as things progressed, truths started coming out and we were working through things such as me knowing about them and me consenting to them continuing their relationship and him having his poly life I began to calm down.

They both started mentioning they wouldn't mind if I joined again. I felt very awkward and unsure if that was what I wanted to do. I had so much fun before the cheating. But I was burned so hard when they went ahead without me, despite all the talking. I didn't want to feel like an intruder. I didn't know if I was ready to watch them, knowing they were in love this time. I didn't want to feel ok one minute and do this and then the next morning be all freaked out and introverted, afraid I would just make him mad and he wouldn't want me anymore.

So some more time passed and the three of us started talking about it a little more. My hormones started getting the urges a little more. J and I were on better grounds. I was still very hurt but I was more scared than hurt at this point. What if I just froze up in the middle of a threeway. That would be horrible. I could never face either of them again. But I finally decided to go for it. And so we did. And we had a great night. I was so nervous the entire drive over there. DH kept offering to turn back. I kept saying no. I am stubborn like that. My head was screaming CANCEL! What am I doing?! I am just making a fool of myself! They don't need me here. They don't want me here. They are just being nice. They just feel guilty. And I am so stupid for even going forward with all of this!

But we got there. It was very awkward at first. We just kind of laid there naked snuggled up for awhile. I didn't know how to start and it felt like all my knowledge of sex had gone out the window. I tend to crack jokes when I am nervous. And I talk jibberish. Which is exactly what I did. And we laughed. DH touched us both intimately. J kept making sure we were both doing ok. So between the three of we started to ease and things just kind of happened from there.

I had my insecurities afterwards. Not going to lie here. I had my questions for myself and I judged myself. But I had fun. I did not freeze up in the middle of it. It was hard watching them but it was also the first time getting back into it. The fears I had of him giving her all his attention or giving me all of his attention and making her feel bad didn't happen. We all talked alot the next couple of days. And things felt back on track. It didn't necessarily make his nights with her easier. But I felt a little more included in this part of his life. Especially since I am not poly. But it felt like I could enjoy this lifestyle with him by doing this from time to time.

Basically, do it when you are ready. Don't push yourself. And even when you are ready you will be a nervous wreck so it will come down to trusting him to handle things fairly, delicately and equally. Let me know if you need anything.
 
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