Life Changes..the beginning.

Hi Jen!
I'm really glad to see this comment. It's been so long since the last time that you posted here, and I was worrying that things had gone screwy for the 2 of you. Especially since the last post said that things were getting worse, not better.

Every time I log on here I check to see if you or BeoDude have added anything. I so hope that things work out for you.

I'd be happy for you if you could both be happy with a monogamous relationship, even though I would miss your input on this board. But it's clear that you, Jen, wouldn't really be happy: that would only be a case of "papering over the cracks". And that would mean that Beo also wouldn't be happy. Because it's important to him that you are.

Once again I have to express my deep respect for the immense effort that Beo is putting into trying to come to accept a reality that is painful for him. I suspect that he isn't bi (and neither am I), but could you give him this HUG from me?:eek:
Still hanging in there.. still having ups and downs.
Welcome to Life! (Glad to read that there are ups.:))
we at least have a common goal.
:)
We both want hubby to be able to accept it. It makes me happy that he wants to try, for both of us. I appreciate it more than he could possibly know. It's still hard though. I think his biggest hang up is the thought of me having sex with somebody else. It makes him sick to his stomach.
[...]
When I think of hubby having sex with somebody else, it doesn't bother me, in fact, I'm almost turned on by it. I don't see it as being equal to the sex that we have though.
Wouldn't it be nice if Beo could either
a) fall in love with someone else himself?:eek: or
b) get turned on by the fact of you being turned on by someone else and that making you more turned on with Beo and the whole thing spiralling into some high stratum of ecstacy?:)

But - for the noo (as the Scots say) - neither of these look too likely.:(
On the J front [...] I want to be happy for him. I still miss him and spending time with him. I see him here and there and it's always friendly and I feel a small sense of relief.
This is generous of you. Some people would become bitter. Quick - while Beo's not looking:D:rolleyes: - another HUG for you from me!
I also find I'm missing NRE, and what it brought to my relationship with hubby. I wonder why I can't feel that way without having somebody else involved. It makes me feel like there is something wrong with me, because I love and am attracted to hubby every day.. but as far as the sex goes, that animalistic urge that came with NRE just isn't there. Maybe part of it was my elation with hubby's acceptance at the time? Maybe knowing how it turns his stomach now, makes me also look negatively at it, even though I feel like it's something I can't help.
Jen, you don't need my saying this, because you're writing about a niggling feeling and on another level you know that there's nothing wrong with you. And I believe that Beo knows that as well...
[...] I apologize if things were jumping around!
Apology NOT accepted... because that would be acknowledging that there is anything for which you should apologise. And there isn't.

Warm affection to the both of you,
J (no, not that J!:eek:;))
 
I'm feeling angry and hurt right now. I know hubs has been dealing with those feelings as well, but for different reasons. I'm feeling like I'm being attacked for being who I am.

I feel like I've done everything in my power to make this easier for hubby and it's not enough. He still feels like I will never be happy with what I have, I always want more, more, more. That he's inadequate, and I'm a selfish slut. He regrets what happened 4 months ago that led to me finding who I am. That his life is filled with negativity and he doesn't know what he wants, what I want from him, or what he wants from himself.

Not only did I give up J, but I gave up poly in general while he works on his feelings, I gave up having friends over during the week nights, I gave up working so he could spend more time with him during the week. Everything I do, and everyone I talk to is no associated with poly and causes negativity. I've tried talking, not talking, I've tried showing him in every way possible that I have an incredible amount of love for him. I can't imagine my life without him in it.

For the first couple of months our communication was amazing, I felt like the luckiest person in the world that I could have a hubby that I could talk to about anything without being judged, and not judge him for what he said to me, and that accepted me for who I was... that was the most amazing thing to me. Then it slowly came to a crashing halt. I'm afraid to open my mouth because it might make him mad, or start him on a downward spiral to negativity and depression.

I don't feel any less about him as a husband and a father. He's amazing. I couldn't ask for a better one. But now I feel like I can't be enough for him. That he wants me to be this perfect person for him that I can't be. I accept him for the mono person he is. I wouldn't force him to be poly, though I'm certainly not against it, and I wonder if it would help me as well. This whole time he's felt like the inadequate one, but I think it's me that's inadequate. How can I possibly be his everything and still be me?

All I know is that I can't imagine my life without hubby, and I can't imagine my life without poly.. so now what? I always said I would give up poly before my husband, and I stand by that. I just don't get, why he doesn't get it. Why he doesn't see how much I love him? That I can love him, and love somebody else, and it takes nothing away from him, except for time. And how much time am I here, waiting?
 
Oh, Jen, dear heart!
I REALLY have to get to bed. It's past 2:30am here in Europe and it's been a long day... with a longer one tomorrow. But I saw that you're online and that you're in pain, and I just can't go to bed:(:(:( without sending you another
hug (lots of Love)
... for what it's worth.
 
I think at some point, when you've felt you have done all you could to get the message across, you have to realize that it's up to the recipient of your communication to let it in and process it. If you are honest and loving in expressing what you want, it is not your fault that Beodude uses the information against himself or against you. He has a responsibility as the receiver. Really listening to someone requires putting feelings, assumptions, and prejudices aside in order to truly hear what they're saying, and to find some empathy or way to relate to the communication, as if you were in their shoes.

I think there will be a moment at which you might have to assess whether the scales have tipped too far in one direction, as far as compromising and making him comfortable -- and then make a choice. Do you suck it up and live monogamously, or renegotiate terms so that you can dip your toes into polyamory and let him deal with it as best he can? I don't mean to say that you just go ahead and do what you want, saying, "Deal with it, I want what I want," like some people do. It would be different if you say you want to try it and now negotiations will surround you doing so, with the caveat that you can go back to mono if it doesn't work out. But you can't know if it will work without giving poly a chance. You only tried it with J for a few weeks, I believe, and things like this take time. I wonder, also, it might be easier for him to handle the idea of allowing you your freedom if there isn't someone specific on the horizon, I don't know.

Are you guys still in counseling? Is he still going easy on the drinking? At some point, he's gonna have to put his big boy pants on and stop feeling sorry for himself.
 
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I don't feel any less about him as a husband and a father. He's amazing. I couldn't ask for a better one. But now I feel like I can't be enough for him. That he wants me to be this perfect person for him that I can't be. I accept him for the mono person he is. I wouldn't force him to be poly, though I'm certainly not against it, and I wonder if it would help me as well. This whole time he's felt like the inadequate one, but I think it's me that's inadequate. How can I possibly be his everything and still be me?

All I know is that I can't imagine my life without hubby, and I can't imagine my life without poly.. so now what? I always said I would give up poly before my husband, and I stand by that. I just don't get, why he doesn't get it. Why he doesn't see how much I love him? That I can love him, and love somebody else, and it takes nothing away from him, except for time. And how much time am I here, waiting?

I can soooooooo empathize!!!! Sundance and I are suffering through a lot of the same. :(

I love the nice things Mr said to you, how sweet. We are really lucky to have him here on this forum, as well as the other wonderful supportive people. I'd be a wreck without this!

I feel like I'm on the fence and I'm getting so worn out from working to strike some balance. I am just exhausted. But neither side is more appealing than the next, either, so here I am, balancing but sometimes I feel close to a breakdown from it. Sometimes I dream of running away alone to a beach somewhere, even for a week or two, just for a break from it all! At least I could just be ME, full of love, free to feel, without having to PROVE anything for awhile. Ah, yes, dream on, carma! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks everyone.

Mr - Thanks for the hugs, they are appreciated :) Back to your scenarios, I think I would enjoy if A) AND B) happened, how cool would that be?

Nycindie - Yes, we are still going to counseling. In fact we went today, and today was the first visit I felt that maybe made some dents in what we are trying to achieve? She mentioned the rule of 1/3s... That in a relationship, you get 1/3rd of your needs met by your significant other, 1/3 met by your personal achievements, and 1/3 met by other people (maybe not sexually, but in this case, yes, I would like it to be). Right now I feel like hubs wants me to be 100% that person, where as I don't and couldn't expect that from him.

He is still laying off the drinking, although he asked if he could tonight. I told him that if he thought he could not get all crazy that it would be okay. We'll see how it goes. I don't expect him to never drink again, but at least he has cut back a lot.

or renegotiate terms so that you can dip your toes into polyamory and let him deal with it as best he can? I don't mean to say that you just go ahead and do what you want, saying, "Deal with it, I want what I want," like some people do. It would be different if you say you want to try it and now negotiations will surround you doing so, with the caveat that you can go back to mono if it doesn't work out. But you can't know if it will work without giving poly a chance.

This is what I would like, really. I think without dipping my toes in it, nothing will ever progress. However, I also feel like he thinks he gave it a chance..I felt like it wasn't given a fair chance. That it was back and forth and up and down, that it just couldn't BE for a time to see how it went. I hate to use this term, but I don't think I'm satisfied with what happened with J, as the "chance".

Carma, *HUGS*! Maybe we can meet on that island!? I'm actually getting a vacation at the end of the month.. 10 days, kid free!! Going home to visit my family and see my uncle for his 50th birthday. I'm very excited to have all that time to do what I want without having to worry about responsibilities!

So that said.. yes, we had our appointment today. DH thinks he might need antidepressants to get him out of this slump of negative thinking. Maybe it will help? Counselor wants to see us for two more weeks to see if he can work it out on his own first, I'm trying to remain hopeful.
 
So that said.. yes, we had our appointment today. DH thinks he might need antidepressants to get him out of this slump of negative thinking. Maybe it will help? Counselor wants to see us for two more weeks to see if he can work it out on his own first, I'm trying to remain hopeful.

I didn't read how much he drinks or how often. But as a recovering alcoholic I can tell you honestly, cutting back to a few times a week doesn't eliminate the poison from your system. Alcohol is a depressant. Before trying anti depressants and using more chemicals, cut the booze out for a time and see if that helps.

I used to get stuck in vicious circles of negative energy. I would feel bad, I would drink, I woud feel good, I would go to bed, and wake up sadder. I would not drink, I would feel ok, swing down a bit and drink,.. Ever cycling in and our of negativity. Near the end of my drinking i drank less than I had in the last ten years, but the cycle still applied.

Anyways I am not the preachy type, and I don't know what he drinks, but it is something to consider before starting on drugs. only reason why I mention it, is your are asking him to cut back, you have asked him to slow down and he is asking permission. Those seem like odd things to me...

For the record I am still dealing with the reprecausions of me not learning proper coping skills and using drink to help. Its amazing how much booze helps you "deal" when the reality is your skillet sucks ass

Best of luck...
 
DH thinks he might need antidepressants to get him out of this slump of negative thinking. Maybe it will help? Counselor wants to see us for two more weeks to see if he can work it out on his own first, I'm trying to remain hopeful.
I didn't read how much he drinks or how often. But as a recovering alcoholic I can tell you honestly, cutting back to a few times a week doesn't eliminate the poison from your system. Alcohol is a depressant. Before trying anti depressants and using more chemicals, cut the booze out for a time and see if that helps.
I have never been much into drinking, but from all that I have seen and read, I agree with Ariakas 100% here! Get Beo to read the whole of that comment, please.

I also have serious misgivings about the anti-depressants. They can become a crutch without which he will feel that he just can't cope. There's a really big danger that he become not only physically but also emotionally VERY addicted.

Added to which, if he takes the drugs and THEN goes on a bender... well that's a good way to off himself.
 
Ariakas - He drinks beer, and usually on the weekends, though occasionally during the week if the next morning is his to sleep in (we alternate who gets the kids each morning). Although he does tend to drink a pretty large quantity on the weekends, and there have been a few periods throughout our marriage was I was concerned that his drinking was getting out of hand and suggested perhaps he should cut back. For a while it was the hard stuff. He's always very calm when he drinks (until the poly thing came about), so it has never caused a problem before, per se. When we went on vacation in December he was drinking an awful lot (this was before poly), but we were also on vacation so.. ?

To answer your question, in my opinion, I do believe he often rides a fine line between it being enjoyable, and it being a problem. I think it did hurt me that after the counselor suggested that we not drink (I don't drink much at all, but if he's not, I'm not), he only made it a little over a week before asking me if he could get some beer. I kind of felt like he's not taking it seriously, or maybe he has a bigger problem than I think?

Mr., I can't say I'm against meds, as I've required them for much of my life. I can tell a night and day difference if I'm not on them, though mostly for anxiety than the antidepressant. I did pretty well without them from the time we got married until we had kids, but that just puts a whole new pile of stress on top, and the anxiety went through the roof. While I have been mildly bi-polar for as long as I can remember, he is only now having issues, I think he will be able to beat it on his own.

That said, he's going to see about getting his own counselor to see on the side, as well as the one we are seeing together. He feels a week is too long between appointments, and he needs to deal with his own issues as long as the ones that involve both of us.

I'm not sure if he comes here and reads anymore..... we don't talk about the site much, but I know he knows I still read and post. *sigh*
 
For the record I am a calm drinker, i am a nice guy, I had supposedly light drinking habits most of the time, except for those times...I couldnt stop... That made me an alcoholic. I was a very high functioning alcohol :)

Honestly, I am not trying to convince you otherwise (he has to figure it out on his own) But the chemical reaction of continued drinking is depression. It is a negative effect.. To take anti depressants while drinking is counter productive. Might be best to check with a doc, but thats my understanding anyways :)

Try not drinking for a prolonged time and the depression might lift... :)
 
I'm wondering why I have to be the one to defend myself, to apologize for saying my feelings out loud. I say them with as much care as I can, but it's still not good enough. Why is it me that's wrong? It doesn't matter what I say, it's always the wrong thing.
 
"Always" the wrong thing? Now you know that's not true -- I've heard you say some wonderful things! And I have also observed you and Beo in synch with each other. So I'm thinking you're just in a low place? And why doesn't Beo have much to say anymore? Looked on his blog and he hasn't written in awhile. Please don't leave us! I could really relate to a lot of what you two have been going thru. Just remember you aren't alone. Sending hugs and encouragement your way :).
 
He doesn't feel like he's making any progress, talking about it or not talking about it. He understands the concept of Poly, but he can't seem to stop being illogical when he thinks about it. It's always negative thoughts. He gets angry, depressed.... and this is without any active poly going on. This is just the IDEA of poly.

Every time we start to have a conversation, if I keep reassuring him, which I have been doing, it never gets through his head. If I tell him how I feel, it's always taken the wrong way, negatively of course.

We went from having very good communication (pre-poly), to have a surge of incredible mind blowing communication.... I was so happy that I had this amazing connection with my hubby and we could discuss everything with no judgements... to BAM. Nothing. Communication ends negatively, no matter how positive it started. Every time I keep thinking we might be making some progress, he spirals down into this depressive pissed off state, which is not like him.

It's like nothing I can say or do has a positive outcome. I just keep my mouth shut, and try and do everything I can to make this all easier for him, because I know it's hard. But I'm getting exhausted from the lack of progress.
 
Hmm, Jen, I wonder if he's been influenced by someone whom perhaps he confided in, and the response was nasty, judgmental shit? It sounds like he's been poisoned against poly from the outside. have you asked him if anyone he's been around has said anything? Has there been any family weirdness directed your or his way? Judgments can do a lot of harm. It could be worth looking into.
 
I still come here... Just don't have much to say anymore.
Hey, Beo!
Don't sink into the swamp, Man! Don't bottle all this up. It's positive to get things off your chest, even if it's uncomfortable at the time. [But I'm glad to read that you're keeping an eye on this thread.:)]

I want to ask you a question. Jen writes:
We went from having very good communication (pre-poly), to have a surge of incredible mind blowing communication.... I was so happy that I had this amazing connection with my hubby and we could discuss everything with no judgements... to BAM. Nothing.
Do YOU see it like that? Do you feel that your communication with Jen / sex-life with her / marriage in general actually IMPROVED [for a while] after the polyamory cards were laid on the table?

I ask you this because
a) if it IS true, wouldn't you like to get back to that improvement?
b) if it ISN'T true, you and Jen need to start communicating with each other better. Have a close look [both of you] at Ariakas' signature. I LOVE that quote from Shaw! I don't want to give you the impression that I'm a total drug fiend but here comes my 2nd drug-related comment on this thread:

A few friends of mine (DECADES ago) all took some LSD on the Scottish coast. After a few hours, when one of them [D] returned from a long walk along the beach, I asked her how it had gone. "AMAZING!!! Even though we split up physically, A, B, and I [D] have been in constant CONTACT, you know? Perfect communication even though we were physically far apart!"
When A and B returned, I asked them about this amazing communication / connection that had been going on between the 3 of them. It was complete news to THEM...

If Jen was on some amazing high in that "surge of incredible mind blowing communication" while you were undergoing torture, I think that the two of you need to talk about that.

I'd like to hope that a) is true, and that you want to recapture that [natural] high with Jen.

As always, all the best to both of you!
 
NYC -- great question. I know Sundance and I have struggled with this, ourselves. Other people's opinions/judgements, as well as the old voice of "Societal Norms" in our heads, haunting us, saying we are crazy and what were we thinking? Sundance has had lots of backslides and I think this is a big part of it.

MrF -- good food for thought, too! We have had our ups and downs, and I too have asked my husband, "Don't you remember how it was when we first started this? Didn't you feel it was worth trying? Didn't we have our high moments?"
-- Plus, I love your shout out to Beo :) Good to see someone reaching out to him.

Hugs, Jen. I know you're going through a tough time.
 
Nobody "poisoned" me against poly early on. I just didn't yet fully realize what it meant to me. I really only started talking to other people after I started feeling like I couldn't be accepting of poly.

I definitely enjoyed the closeness that was there at the beginning, and the communication. I just didn't like the reason for it. All that went through my head was that it wasn't me making her happy, since all these changes came about when J came into the picture. So there was definitely some bitterness there. I think that was probably the start of the downfall, when it occurred to me that it wasn't me making her happy like that.


But, I've been feeling better this week. Just thinking about poly doesn't make me get all ticked off, so that's a start... I've been trying to be more receptive to what Jen says also, instead of shutting it all out
 
Beo, it is good to hear from you.

When you find yourself focusing on whether or not you are making her happy, and the idea that you should be the sole source of her happiness, just try to remember that we are all each responsible for our own happiness. It isn't up to anyone but ourselves to make us happy. Jen's happiness doesn't solely rest on you, and your happiness isn't contingent upon her. So, having more than one love in her life simply means that that enables Jen to best express who she is, which brings her happiness. It's not the people that "make" her happy - it is the freedom to satisfy a need to be herself.
 
I agree with Cindie here... and in fact, Beo, you "make" her happy by allowing her the freedom to be herself.

Lots of things probably "make" her happy that have little or nothing to do with you. Are you jealous of them? For example, here are things that "make" me happy that have nothing to do with a partner.

Good food
Good wine
A sunny day outdoors
My job taking care of infant twins
My favorite TV show
When the Red Sox won the Championship
How my apartment looks after I do a good cleanup
Music
Dancing with friends
IMing with my sister
Christmas Eve

You get the picture, I hope. Just because another person (or activity) is making her happy doesn't make you lesser. Life's a banquet. There are lots of things that make life worth living. One person and one person only can not "make" another person happy 24/7. If she were to die tomorrow, would you never be happy again? My dad depended on my mom to "make" him happy and he's been depressed for 3 years since she died. Is that healthy? IMO, no.

NRE can make a person feel like their love object is the be-all and end-all of happiness, excitement and perfection. This is idealization. It fades once you spend enough time with someone and start to see their all-too-human faults and unpleasant quirks.
 
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