What to do when tertiary's needs conflict with mine. [long!]

Rayek

New member
What to do when metamour's needs conflict with mine. [long!]

Hello. This will be a long one, I'll try to make it as sweet as possible.

For the sake of clarity I'll use some names, none of which are the names of anyone involved.

I met Beth when she was bound to blossom into the world's best lesbian ever. She was learning the ropes, meeting new people, and had just come out to her family. Then I stepped in...

Because I don't like the idea of me being "the man" and pulling her away from what could've been a road to self-discovery, I told her to continue searching for women. I couldn't be happier that, after two years of sleeping around (Not to mention us having a wonderful, worry-free, almost perfect relationship), she's finally found someone (Mary).

Then the poly stuff got a little crazy. Beth wasn't respecting my boundaries, I felt like she wasn't aware of my feelings, and she was giving Mary our time together. For example, Beth had gone on a trip with her family and was gone for several days. The first night she returned, she spent with Mary instead of me. Now I know that maybe I should have not felt so bad about it, but it really hurt my feelings at the time and I broke it off with her for about seven hours of traumatic sobbing.

Since then, we've really opened up to each other, we've worked through a lot of trust and other issues with each other, and she's been reading Ethical Slut, and I've felt more and more comfortable sharing how certain things make me feel. We spent a week together sobbing it out, and have come back stronger. I feel like being polyamorous is and has been the best way for us to be together.

Her partner, on the other hand, isn't as forgiving.

Not to say that she doesn't care about the situation, because Beth assures me she does, and she was very nice about giving us a whole week to ourselves, but one of my main 'working through jealousy moments' was realizing how much I wanted to meet her partner.

I mean, regardless of what kind of time we have together, Mary and I DO influence each others lives, and without being able to put a face to a name it becomes easier to loathe, disrespect, and make assumptions about one another. Moreover, it would be much easier to be amicable to each others situations if we were to meet in a non-confrontational place just to get to know each other.

But Mary seems to think my need to meet her, just to be friendly, makes me seem like she'd be "asking [Beth's] father for permission to date her". And she's very much against any awkwardness. I went out of my way to make the request as non-threatening as possible, having Beth text Mary my number so when she was ready she could set up something.

I can't dissuade someone from thinking something incorrect about me if I cannot talk with them face-to-face. Also, I feel a little bit apprehensive to feel okay with Beth being with someone who doesn't even want to meet me at all.

Tonight the situation almost erupted.

Beth and Mary were spending the night together, and obviously, the details are none of my business, I don't care to ask, and Beth doesn't care to share, which is totally fine. I went for a night out with my girlfriends, and turns out the bar we decide to start the night out with, Beth and Mary are expected anytime. I clam up, get a leaden feeling in my stomach and need to leave immediately.

Imagine that meeting! "Oh, hi. I'm glad to meet you. I see you're taking my partner to meet with our mutual friends. Why didn't you want to meet me? Oh well, now you have. This is MUCH better." How would anyone and everyone react? It would have been a shit-show had I arrived a half an hour later. That's not how I want to be presented with the situation.

Beth says, "I'm sorry, I need to respect her wishes too." In that Mary wishes not to meet me in a comfortable environment.

I really want to respect Beth and Mary, but Mary is making it harder and harder every day that she shies away from meeting me. I want to respect her wishes, but it was like I was giving an olive branch to her to say "I'm no longer jealous of the time you and Beth spend together. I would like to learn to be genuinely happy for the both of you." and she calls me a 'doting father' in so many words, and refuses to take my offer of peace. I know it might have been a little awkward, but now it certainly WILL be awkward, no matter where or when it happens.

Please read, and help. Give some examples, help out in any way you can. I can never forget how I felt tonight, and that feeling could've been completely avoided. we could've had a good time chatting together.

-Max

Edit: There's surprisingly little information anywhere on dealing with matamour's needs, and conflicts therein. I've perused the internet for a few weeks about the subject, and haven't found anything really. Or what one should expect from a partner's secondary. I know all situations are different, but I need to know what's "red flag" behaviour and what's my own issue.
 
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First, Mary is a metamour, not a tertiary. You're not dating Mary so she isn't primary/secondary/tertiary to you in any fashion.

Next, Mary has no obligation whatsoever to meet you and spend time with you. It is as simple as that. Whether or not the two of you meet has absolutely nothing to do with showing respect for the other's time with Beth.

Third, your reaction to going to the same bar they were scheduled to arrive at later is entirely your problem. You could have stayed there and enjoyed yourself--you had no obligation to leave just because Mary doesn't want to run into you. Piss on that--you don't have to schedule your life around her desire to not meet you. How 'bout you stop worrying about that and schedule your free time without giving her a single thought? Life will be much better that way.
 
First, Mary is a metamour, not a tertiary. You're not dating Mary so she isn't primary/secondary/tertiary to you in any fashion.

Sorry if my terms are incorrect, I'm Beth's primary, Mary is her tertiary. I don't think I said she was my tertiary or anything, just that the relationship they have together isn't the primary one.

Next, Mary has no obligation whatsoever to meet you and spend time with you. It is as simple as that. Whether or not the two of you meet has absolutely nothing to do with showing respect for the other's time with Beth.

I'd like to know why/how not wanting to meet me is in any way showing respect for the fact that I exist in Beth's life.

Nearly everything... No, everything I've ever read on the subject says otherwise. In fact, some people here have put "not wanting to meet their partner's other partners" in their list of 'red flag behaviours'. As I said, our lives are already affecting one another's, and if situations like this occur more often than we would want them (and it has already, once) then meeting in neutral territory will help diffuse situations. Also, I think it does very much have to do with respect for Beth and I. The idea that in many ways she can pretend that Beth and I don't exist is a big hindrance. And quite a worry, too. And it slightly offends me.

Third, your reaction to going to the same bar they were scheduled to arrive at later is entirely your problem. You could have stayed there and enjoyed yourself--you had no obligation to leave just because Mary doesn't want to run into you. Piss on that--you don't have to schedule your life around her desire to not meet you. How 'bout you stop worrying about that and schedule your free time without giving her a single thought? Life will be much better that way.

Maybe I didn't explain very well. We are new to this. I'm posting in the "New to Polyamory" forum. I'm not an expert at wishing away jealousy and pretending like it doesn't exist. Also, Mary doesn't just not want to 'run into me', she doesn't want to know me at all. I didn't want to just 'run into her' while dealing with my jealousy issues. To be honest, I was "scheduling my free time without giving her a single thought", I was having a night out with my friends to forget about it. Also, I realize that a lot of my jealousy is internal, and Beth has been very good about helping me work through it, but there comes a point where all that can be done is done and I just have to 'bite the bullet' so-to-speak and work through it on my own. This is not one of those issues, this is an easily avoidable situation that would have been a whole lot better had Mary and I met.

Also, I've not felt more talked-down to about something serious that's happening in my life, I think ever. I think you have a rigid view by which you view polyamory which somehow doesn't include feelings like jealousy, or recognizes when people fought for a long time to acknowledge what they need from a situation in order for things to work. To be honest, I kind of feel like you're projecting onto me, turning me into this 'doting father', when that's not the situation at all. I didn't do this to you, I didn't do anything to anyone, please don't talk to me like I'm a child. That response was not helpful at all and I don't see how it could've been meant to be.

Thanks, internet
 
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Why do you feel the need to meet Mary? I'm curious if it's because that's what you read should happen or if you really want to. It sounds like there may be other underlying issues that you want to work out aside from jealousy.

I haven't met Karma's girlfriend Cookie. I'd like to...maybe...one day. And she feels the same. And to be honest so far it's worked out really well. Not knowing eachother has made it easier to keep the relationships seperate. I'm not sure how Karma feels about it, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier for me. But I don't have jealousy about her or their time together. I do get angry when Karma doesn't balance time well, but that's a balance thing and not a jealousy thing.

Can you move on and past your jealousy over their time together without meeting her? I get wanting to meet her and clear things up, but if shes not willing why push it?

As for the bar. You know what you are willing to deal with and not willing. Had it been me, I'd have enjoyed my night out and gone about my night whether she was there or not. Nothing said you had to talk to her. Nothing says she and Beth would have stayed upon realising you were at the same place. But it sounds like you were given the heads up, which makes me question if Beth knew you were there, why didn't she go ahead and make arrangements to go somewhere else?
 
Why do you feel the need to meet Mary? I'm curious if it's because that's what you read should happen or if you really want to. It sounds like there may be other underlying issues that you want to work out aside from jealousy.

With the initial invitation to have coffee, it's true that I really wanted to meet her. I was interested in knowing the person Beth felt so much about, I didn't see us talking poly, or even Beth for that matter. I imagined us waxing intellectual about music, gender things (hang out with me for a half an hour and it'll come up...), coffee, the East Coast, anything. But I think now that she somewhat has closed that door in such a way... I don't know. It allows a lot of distrust to build. She obviously has misconceptions about the situation and about me, and now I think it's just to get the record straight, to make sure she's on the same page as Beth and I.

I'm wondering what other issues might I have other than jealousy? I'd like to know some possibilities, perhaps I'm not aware yet. I've done a lot of soul-searching and I have some abandonment issues, but most of them revolve around Beth and my relationship, not necessarily between Beth and Mary.

I haven't met Karma's girlfriend Cookie. I'd like to...maybe...one day. And she feels the same. And to be honest so far it's worked out really well. Not knowing eachother has made it easier to keep the relationships seperate. I'm not sure how Karma feels about it, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier for me. But I don't have jealousy about her or their time together. I do get angry when Karma doesn't balance time well, but that's a balance thing and not a jealousy thing.

That seems to work for you, I think Mary hopes that it works that way as well. I trust Beth, the problem is I don't know if I trust Mary, and I don't really like the idea of someone who seems like she doesn't like me being close to the one I love. I hate to not be able to set the record straight about myself, especially to someone who's affecting my life so drastically. Maybe after we're all more well-versed in the ways to go about things I will feel more secure with not knowing who Beth is seeing, but as of now I saw a way for all of this to work smoothly and that way was closed by Mary.

Can you move on and past your jealousy over their time together without meeting her? I get wanting to meet her and clear things up, but if shes not willing why push it?

I had been relaxed about the meeting thing since Beth and I had our 'week of catharsis' together. After Mary refused the invitation I got a bit irritated and felt a little helpless, but they've been seeing each other since then and I wasn't going to bring it up until we were all ready. But last night is a prime example of how a few minutes of awkwardness over coffee could have dissolved the whole situation. It makes me frustrated, I feel like I'm seeing two steps ahead and trying to mitigate worse awkwardness in the future, while Mary is thinking about how crappy meeting me now would be.

As for the bar. You know what you are willing to deal with and not willing. Had it been me, I'd have enjoyed my night out and gone about my night whether she was there or not. Nothing said you had to talk to her. Nothing says she and Beth would have stayed upon realising you were at the same place. But it sounds like you were given the heads up, which makes me question if Beth knew you were there, why didn't she go ahead and make arrangements to go somewhere else?

Yes. I might have gone on with my night, but I was getting "the bad feeling". I don't know how to describe it other than that. A public place that serves alcohol is nowhere near the place to work with "the bad feeling". Especially when the source of it all is outside having a grand ole time. I'm still working around a lot of things, it's gotten much better, but something about it doesn't sit right with me, mostly Mary's attitude regarding me. I of course would like to say that my escape from the bar was a way to respect Mary's feelings, but to be honest I just didn't want to meet her there. I didn't want to be in that situation, then, in public, with mutual friends around. Especially with "the feeling" tearing away at my chest.

Also, what happened was, a few of Beth's friends were visiting from New York. Usually I'm appraised of that situation, we all hang out together and such and have a good time. So I arrived and saw them there, and said how "I didn't know you were coming up, does Beth know you're here". I had no clue Beth and Mary were to show up at any point, they didn't know we were going to the same bar.

Regardless, my girlfriends and I bar-hopped around town and had a good time, and I almost forgot about everything til I was at home alone.

Thanks for the reply.

Edit: Also, I want to not interfere at all with their time together, if possible. I won't text or call, or anything while she's with Mary. I want to respect their time and space together. So if they're gonna be where I am and it's their night together, I don't want to get in the way at all. I want not to be "The guy that's friends with everyone sitting at this table but refuses to say 'hi' or look our way." A lot of this is because I'm aware of how I come off to Mary. I want to be friendly, I want to be happy for Beth. I want Beth to explore this.
 
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Hey Rayek, please don't give up on this board because of one comment. We all have differing opinions here, and different needs for certain things to happen to feel comfortable and deal with jealousy.

However, I do get Mary's feeling you are Beth's "doting father." Sometimes when I am helping my gf get ready for a date, I feel less like a lover, and more maternal.

It's too bad M is so afraid to meet though, since it's important to you. Maybe she'll come around. You can't change her or force her though. All you can do is deal with your own issues.

You could have stayed at the bar. Maybe meeting her in your group of friends might've been a good neutral way to meet. Maybe not, but now you don't know.

BTW, M is B's secondary. A tertiary would be M's 3rd lover, if she were to have one. M is your metamour, and if B had a 3rd partner, s/he would also be your metamour.

I realize this is all new to you, and I wish you the best of luck as you proceed! It's a rollercoaster. Take care of yourself. Be kind and patient with all concerned.
 
It's too bad M is so afraid to meet though, since it's important to you. Maybe she'll come around. You can't change her or force her though. All you can do is deal with your own issues.

That may be the solution, and if the situation wasn't so cathartic for me last night, I would have been into 'toughing it out'. But knowing that it all could have been avoided with a simple chat, and even ended up being an awesome time makes me frustrated.

Maybe I can forget it and try to work through, it's going to be hard because I feel like if we met it could only get better from there. As it stands now, it's getting worse.

I realize this is all new to you, and I wish you the best of luck as you proceed! It's a rollercoaster. Take care of yourself. Be kind and patient with all concerned.

Thanks for the support.
 
I am new to all of this as well but...

I totally understand your need and desire to meet Mary. It would also concern me if I asked to meet someone, anyone, who was in my partners life and they were soooo opposed to it. What's the big deal? Why is she so adamant with her refusal? To me, it almost sounds like she realizes how important it is to you and is using it to exert some control.

I am curious. Again, new to all of this, but traditionally, when we are dating someone, we meet their friends, families, coworkers eventually...its part of knowing someone, it brings you closer. So why would it ne abnormal or wrong to want to meet your partners other romantic partner? Question for those who expressed that he shouldn't want to meet Mary.

Also, the father comments? Completely rude. She is taking the sex and love out of your relationship with Beth with that comment and making you a stuffy, stodgy old man character. Hmmm...maybe that's how she prefers to think of you? Maybe she feels more threatened or insecure than you know and wants to pretend you are just a Platonic fatherly figure in Beth's life rather than a person with feelings and desires just like her.

Just musing.
 
I understand why you left the bar, if you felt that was best for you, good job doing it. You just have to specify that so nobody thinks your trying to say that somebody else is responsible for your feelings and actions.

Yes, she doesn't have to meet you and you can't force her. It might feel like she's being disrespectful to you, but she is being respectful to herself, just as you were being respectful to yourself when you suggested meeting in the first place. If you can't respect and take care of yourself, it's unlikely you'll be able to do either for anybody else.

Lastly, while this could just be an insecurity that you need to work through, it could also be a new boundary for you. You're bound to have a few come and go over the years, as you grow and develop. Though they can often cause problems/drama if you discover one in the middle of a relationship because it will feel like you're changing the rules in the middle of the game.

Example: There are a large number of people that use the term fluid bonding, which is an agreement to have unprotected sex within the fluid bonded relationship and protected sex outside of the relationship. People that ask for this agreement have a boundary about safe sex and look for partners that either respect that boundary or share it, and we subsequently call it an agreement.

My personal boundary is to meet anyone my partners have sex with, within geographical reason that is. I assume Beth and Mary are sexually active, I doubt however, that they are using dental dams, gloves, condoms on toys, or separate toys. Suffice it to say I am super STD/STI conscientious, if I were in your place I'd be freaking the fuck out, but that's just me. I haven't always had this boundary, and was once quite unsafe, but I can only be in a relationship with people that respect my boundaries.
 
Lastly, while this could just be an insecurity that you need to work through, it could also be a new boundary for you. You're bound to have a few come and go over the years, as you grow and develop. Though they can often cause problems/drama if you discover one in the middle of a relationship because it will feel like you're changing the rules in the middle of the game.

I do feel a bit bad for bringing it up after so long, but honestly, once it became clear that what we were getting into was polyamory and not just "sex with friends" I had the inclination immediately. Not to say that I set it up as a boundary, or a personal need from the relationship from the start, but now that I've recognized that meeting her IS a boundary, have made that vocal to all parties involved, and still feel trapped by Mary's decision, and will have to be for who-knows-how-long, I can't see an end to it.

Actually, come to think of it, I had mentioned that I'd wanted to meet or hang out with Beth's "friends with benefits" before, and her sexual partners were always against the idea. So, this has come up before under different circumstances.
 
I am new to all of this as well but...

I totally understand your need and desire to meet Mary. It would also concern me if I asked to meet someone, anyone, who was in my partners life and they were soooo opposed to it. What's the big deal? Why is she so adamant with her refusal? To me, it almost sounds like she realizes how important it is to you and is using it to exert some control.

I am curious. Again, new to all of this, but traditionally, when we are dating someone, we meet their friends, families, coworkers eventually...its part of knowing someone, it brings you closer. So why would it ne abnormal or wrong to want to meet your partners other romantic partner? Question for those who expressed that he shouldn't want to meet Mary.

Also, the father comments? Completely rude. She is taking the sex and love out of your relationship with Beth with that comment and making you a stuffy, stodgy old man character. Hmmm...maybe that's how she prefers to think of you? Maybe she feels more threatened or insecure than you know and wants to pretend you are just a Platonic fatherly figure in Beth's life rather than a person with feelings and desires just like her.

Just musing.

All of this is what I've been thinking for the past two weeks. Not fun :(
 
All of this is what I've been thinking for the past two weeks. Not fun :(

As I've said in other posts, I hate the assumption that my partner's sweeties have to be my BFFs, etc. I do think meeting them is important and it's something my partner and I make sure happens, but it can't be forced.

Try to understand Mary's position for a sec rather than making her a pantomime villain. You have no idea what Beth has been saying to her about anything. Maybe before you worked things out Beth trash-talked you. Maybe Mary is nervous because she's the "secondary" in this relationship and feels anxious. Is she a lesbian? Maybe she feels like Beth is just playing and is going to leave her in the end. Maybe she feels pressured and isn't ready. Maybe she doesn't fully trust Beth to have her back as well as yours if there are issues between the two of you. Maybe Beth sees this demand as a way of you exerting control and "vetting" her relationships and has told Mary that.
Who knows? It doesn't seem clear and might not even be that important.

My advice would be to just let it go for awhile. Think hard about whether it is something in any way related to a control issue on your part. Focus on spending time with Beth, building trust with her in your now poly relationship. Then, bring it up with her and explain it as something that is important to you, and that if she loves Mary, then you think Mary is someone you'd like to get to at least meet.

Good luck.
 
As I've said in other posts, I hate the assumption that my partner's sweeties have to be my BFFs, etc. I do think meeting them is important and it's something my partner and I make sure happens, but it can't be forced.

Try to understand Mary's position for a sec rather than making her a pantomime villain. You have no idea what Beth has been saying to her about anything. Maybe before you worked things out Beth trash-talked you. Maybe Mary is nervous because she's the "secondary" in this relationship and feels anxious. Is she a lesbian? Maybe she feels like Beth is just playing and is going to leave her in the end. Maybe she feels pressured and isn't ready. Maybe she doesn't fully trust Beth to have her back as well as yours if there are issues between the two of you. Maybe Beth sees this demand as a way of you exerting control and "vetting" her relationships and has told Mary that.
Who knows? It doesn't seem clear and might not even be that important.

My advice would be to just let it go for awhile. Think hard about whether it is something in any way related to a control issue on your part. Focus on spending time with Beth, building trust with her in your now poly relationship. Then, bring it up with her and explain it as something that is important to you, and that if she loves Mary, then you think Mary is someone you'd like to get to at least meet.

Good luck.

I would love to be able to see Mary's position, but I really hate to suppose, which is why a meeting would clear a lot of things up. Not even a meeting about 'business' or whatnot, just seeing who she is, what she likes. I don't want to be her BFF, I just want to be friendly.

I think all of this has been dealt with. Beth and I are very open about needs and wants from each other. Beth also assures me that she speaks of me in a high regard with Mary, and I believe her. Beth and I have had a wonderful relationship, and no doubt we love each other. For example, Beth identifies as a Lesbian, but I'm not necessarily 'a man', so she finds me very attractive and we have an excellent sex life, but because she needs to be with women. If our relationship were to go away, she told me she would swear off men. But next Tuesday, we're going in to get her an IUD. If she didn't want to have sex with me, or hated me, secretly, I doubt that would be happening.

Another thing about the secondary relationship is that Beth and I are moving to San Francisco in December. Mary knows this, and they've been under the assumption that it's going to last until then. Very hard move to make, and yet Beth is packing her things already. She's already shipped a few boxes to my parent's.

This all to say that I have no doubt about Beth's love for me, I trust her implicitly when she tells me things about the relationship. I've had a hard time opening up and sharing my feelings with her, but once I did I found that we were both growing stronger, working through things. As I said, poly is the best thing to happen to our relationship.

My main concern regarding Beth's behaviour comes because I'm aware she's wrapped up in a lot of NRE. I know she'll be honest with me, but if Mary deems a situation too tense or feels one way or another, I don't think she has the willpower to be assertive. I don't even think they've had a serious talk about Beth's needs regarding Mary. I'd hope that one of Beth's needs in general is that we stay together and things go as smoothly as possible. I just don't think she truly understand the correlation between metamors' feelings could make or break the whole thing.

The problem is that I've already talked to Beth about how I'm feeling about it. I have been all sorts of communicative on the subject. My main quandary is that I feel like I'm doing all the emotional work, Beth is helping me, and Mary doesn't seem to think my feelings matter to her situation. But really, I don't know. Which is why a meeting or a chat would go miles to clearing up everything.

Another thing to note is that Mary is not at all versed in poly relationships. She's been with people who have another partner, but it was mostly sexual relationships and nothing more. Which annoys me to no end, because I don't think Beth is doing all in her power to make her understand the situation.

You're right though, I have to check myself constantly about falling into the 'controller' role. That would be the antithesis of what I strive for in this whole matter.

Thanks for the help, this is helping a lot, thank you everybody.
 
Have you tried doing a tag search here for "secondary" "metamour" and anything else you couldn't find elsewhere? There are a lot of threads with those tags, maybe you will find something useful.

This hasn't been very long it seems. I think if I were you I would keep at it and keep asking to meet. To me it is a red flag if one of my loves has a partner that doesn't want to meet me SOMETIME... I can see how they might want to wait a bit and work up to it, but never...? Nuh uh.

I agree that going about your business and not worrying about what you do is the best bet. It's her problem if you happen to meet.
 
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Actually, come to think of it, I had mentioned that I'd wanted to meet or hang out with Beth's "friends with benefits" before, and her sexual partners were always against the idea. So, this has come up before under different circumstances.

Maybe it's not her partner's that were against the idea?
 
Maybe it's not her partners that were against the idea?

Well, as he said, those other partners were just casual hookups, FWBs, FBs. When I first separated, I dated casually for a while, while also having a gf, and we didn't bother to set her up to meet all those people. She only ended up meeting 2 out of like 2 dozen, after I'd been seeing them for several months.

This case is more likely to be because Beth is a dyke and her gf is a dyke, and Rayek, while genderqueer, has a dreaded penis. There is a good deal of prejudice in dykeland against penises. :( (My gf miss pixie is a transwoman and we have experienced this first hand.)

I am sorry you're feeling excluded, Rayek.
 
This case is more likely to be because Beth is a dyke and her gf is a dyke, and Rayek, while genderqueer, has a dreaded penis. There is a good deal of prejudice in dykeland against penises. :( (My gf miss pixie is a transwoman and we have experienced this first hand.)

I am sorry you're feeling excluded, Rayek.

This is a really interesting comment because we had a long chat about our whole situation together last night and things are becoming more clear. It turns out that she hasn't been into men, or me, for the past couple months. That I do have the dreaded penis, and that she loves me but isn't sure that our sex life can really recover.

This pains me to no end, especially because I've been trying to make everything work so hard and because she's admitted that she has bad rape trauma issues, and has only just begun to see someone about it. I'd hate to think that I will lose the love of my life because of some horrible person that did unspeakable things to her, but if she's not willing to try anymore then there's not much left. I love her more than I've loved anyone, but if she's unhappy and its my doing then I'll hate myself.

I called out from work today, I'm waiting to see if she just needs a break for a week or so for her to understand what she wants, or if we're going to wait until she's seen the therapist more times than just one, or if it's all over.

I hate biology, if I was a woman none of this would be happening right now. I'm scared. I know it's really hard to ask a lot of people I don't know for verbal support, but I just need to talk to someone. Someone who knows about genderqueer, lesbian, that sort of thing. If you're interested in helping, PM me today and we'll trade numbers. I just need perspective, I'm hurting a lot.
 
:)
 
Hmmm...
Rayek said:
Her partner, on the other hand, isn't as forgiving . . .

Mary seems to think . . .

And [Mary]'s very much against any awkwardness . . .

Mary doesn't just not want to 'run into me', she doesn't want to know me at all. . . .

[Mary] obviously has misconceptions about the situation and about me . . .

. . . in many ways [Mary] can pretend that Beth and I don't exist . . .
For someone you haven't met yet, it is rather peculiar that you assume to know so much about what Mary's thinking and feeling.

But the real crux of the matter, I believe, is this:
Rayek said:
I don't know if I trust Mary, and I don't really like the idea of someone who seems like she doesn't like me being close to the one I love. I hate to not be able to set the record straight about myself, especially to someone who's affecting my life so drastically.

After Mary refused the invitation I got a bit irritated and felt a little helpless . . .

. . . that she can pretend that Beth and I don't exist is a big hindrance. And quite a worry, too. And it slightly offends me.
Feeling offended is a choice. You don't have to choose that response. I really do not see what is so drastically affecting you, simply because Mary does not want to meet you. You've made a lot of conclusions about how she feels about you, and even if some of it was relayed to you via Beth, I see a lot of drama that doesn't need to be attached to the situation. This appears to me to be an inside job. You want to blame Mary, but even if you did meet her and it went just the way you wanted it to go, your issues about trust, insecurity, and wanting to be in control need to be resolved internally and no one else can do that but you.

Your focus should be on your relationship with Beth, not her relationship with Mary. Do your part to make your relationship with Beth as nurturing, loving, fun, and caring as it can be and whatever happens with Mary will be just something you know about but with very little impact on you.


First, Mary is a metamour, not a tertiary. You're not dating Mary so she isn't primary/secondary/tertiary to you in any fashion.
Sorry if my terms are incorrect, I'm Beth's primary, Mary is her tertiary. I don't think I said she was my tertiary or anything, just that the relationship they have together isn't the primary one.
Isn't primary for whom? Maybe it is primary for Mary. But I think you probably mean secondary for Beth. Tertiary would mean third partner for Beth.


Next, Mary has no obligation whatsoever to meet you and spend time with you. It is as simple as that. Whether or not the two of you meet has absolutely nothing to do with showing respect for the other's time with Beth.

Third, your reaction to going to the same bar they were scheduled to arrive at later is entirely your problem. You could have stayed there and enjoyed yourself--you had no obligation to leave just because Mary doesn't want to run into you. Piss on that--you don't have to schedule your life around her desire to not meet you. How 'bout you stop worrying about that and schedule your free time without giving her a single thought? Life will be much better that way.
I'd like to know why/how not wanting to meet me is in any way showing respect for the fact that I exist in Beth's life.

. . . everything I've ever read on the subject says otherwise. In fact, some people here have put "not wanting to meet their partner's other partners" in their list of 'red flag behaviours' . . . Also, I've not felt more talked-down to about something serious...
Wow, how is someone telling you to enjoy yourself, without twisting yourself into a pretzel to accommodate someone else, being talked-down to? Hmmm. Methinks you let yourself get easily offended by people who have a differing viewpoint from how you see things.

But it is true that Mary isn't obligated to meet you. It is true she isn't obligated to try and get along with you. You assume that not wanting to do so is disrespectful, but maybe she's just uncomfortable with it and doesn't want to. Maybe she just doesn't like men (and you really want to hang out with her?). Since you and Beth are moving away in December, maybe Mary doesn't want to get too entrenched in Beth's life (ie., by meeting you) before she moves away. Maybe Mary just wants to enjoy her time with Beth and has no need for thinking about any of Beth's other relationships. So what? That doesn't necessarily show disrespect or even remotely have an affect on you unless you let it. I've had a few relationships which were sort of only existing in our own little bubble - I didn't need to know about nor meet anyone else in the person's life to enjoy being with them, and it didn't mean I disrespected anyone or anything they had going on.

Just because many people say that it can make relationships easier for metamours to meet, doesn't make it a requirement. Every situation is different. Someone else's red flag doesn't have to be your red flag.

I would just let it go and continue working on your self-growth and personal issues.

Rayek said:
I want Beth to explore this.
Well, she'll do what she wants and what feels right for her, no matter what it is you want her to do.
 
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This is all kind of moot right now, I think.
 
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