Loving without Fear: Cleo's path

I am sorry to hear about your father. Please do take care of yourself. Sending you hugs.
 
Things are not so great. The family situation with the sickness of my dad is very tense and causing me a lot of stress. And while I thought that C and I were more on the same page, it no longer looks like that.

The thing is: I want a complete relationship with him, where we are integrated in each others lives - as far as that's possible because of the fact we live a couple of hours apart. He comes to my house, knows my friends, knows my husband, has met my co-workers. I want to share the fun stuff and the bad stuff that's going on in my life. I want him to be my partner.

2 weeks ago we had a good talk about his new relationship (which isn't that new anymore, anyway) andI felt he heard me when I said how painful it is for me to not feel seen. But the past week there were a couple of incidents when he did not respond to messages (which were sad updates about my dad) because he was with her. He sees her almost every day now, so I have issues with the fact that he says he cannot connect with me when he's with her.

We saw each other this weekend. At one point he mentioned that a friend of his (basically one of his very few close friends) was performing somewhere, and that he had thought of taking me, but that that wasn't possible, because it was at a venue where Molly would also be present that night because she works there. He later told me the performance wasn't that interesting anyway, but I think that's besides the point - the point is she doesn't want to see me.

After this had happened I remembered something I'd forgotten. A while ago he showed me some pictures of me he had printed out and said 'yeah I thought about displaying them, but I can't, because then when Molly comes over she sees them'.

All these things are perfectly understandable. I mean I have had struggles with meeting metamours. And I'll never be good friends with Lou. But we know each other, and respect each others place in Ren's life.

I'm getting to the point where I think that this is going to be a deal breaker for me.

Last night C jokingly said: maybe I should give you Molly's email address so the 2 of you can connect without my interference.

I'm thinking of taking him up on that. And if she doesn't want this, I'm thinking this cannot go on. C. and I have great moments together but I cannot have a truly intimate relationship with someone who is not proud of me, and who is willing to ignore me (in various ways) so as to not hurt his other lover. Of course what I don't really know, is if HE would want it differently, and that it's really just her who doesn't want to meet me.
Am I wrong in taking this to a level where it's between me and her? Should he do something instead?
 
I'm really sorry about your Dad *hug*

I know I would want to figure this thing out with Molly sooner than later - I would not be OK with somebody saying they wanted to display photos of me but couldn't because their other partner would see them, especially because its about HIS discomfort mainly as far as I can tell, and not necessarily hers - is he going to go through his life never putting up pictures of those he loves because it might be some odd affront to someones sensibilities?

I think getting in touch with her via email would be ideal since for all you know she's fine with things, but his worry about it makes him present the situation as being horribly uncomfortable for her and probably is greatly affecting both you and her the longer it goes on. I've met people Adam dated, and both Brian and Greg's wives without them involved or around, talked through emails or IM to chat and set up coffee or drink dates (sometimes my preference to just meet them solo, sometimes theirs). It's nice not to have a third parties nerves impacting an attempt to get to know somebody, and I have a feeling C might just botch it if you were all in the same place at the same time so... with how much this is weighing on your mind, and how much is going on in your life right now, in your place I'd pretend C wasn't joking and ask him for her email and ask him to let her know that you're going to be writing her.
 
Thanks Anne. I'm really torn about this. I want to take things into my own hands, because that's what I do. But - if I reach out to her, I'm sort of taking the problem away from where it really resides - which is in HIS attitude.

He has told me she does not want to meet me. I don't think he made that up.

I feel he's not acknowledging me, and that's not going to change if I meet her for coffee. I mean it would help me immensely, and it would probably help her too, but I don't think it would fundamentally change things between me and him. The fact that he is perfectly fine with doing everything to not hurt her feelings, even when it's hurting me, is what really matters.
 
You said in the post before this "Am I wrong in taking this to a level where it's between me and her? Should he do something instead?"
No (obviously I think that or I wouldn't have said what I said), and Yes - but it seems to be getting clearer he wont so the ball is in your court.

Its possible she doesn't want to meet you, and its possible she said months ago that she wasn't sure she wanted to meet you and he took that as a final statement and wouldn't ever think of bring it up again to check in with how she was doing and if she'd changed her mind.

If you take it out of his hands, at least HE might be able to focus on how he is treating you instead of distracting with what he thinks Molly wants or thinks. I imagine it comes down to if you are trying to decide if you should keep him in your life based around what he does or doesn't do in regards to this situation. You've asked for what you wanted, and other than some dramatic ultimatum there's not much else you can do. You seem pretty sure that if she's not ever going to be comfortable with you as his partner, that knowing that will change things, and probably end your relationship with C.

I cant' remember if you've mentioned if you've met other people he's dated - but I know this has been an issue for awhile and every time you think you've taken a step forward together on the same page, you find yourself backsliding and realizing that you're still not getting what you would like, or what you think he said he would give you. (note - might be projecting a bit from struggles I've had about being compartmentalized in one of my partner's lives.) I know that trying to figure out if you should keep a mostly rewarding but markedly flawed in one area relationship is something very hard to get clarity on, and I imagine if you're struggling with that - contacting Molly and seeing how he responded after that it would help provide some of that for better or worse.
 
I'm sorry about your father, Cleo, and I'm sorry about the situation with C and Molly.

It sounds like C doesn't have the communication skills to improve things, so yes, talking to Molly yourself might be your only option.

:(
 
just sent him a message and asked for her email adress. any info that comes out of this will be useful... if he doesn't want to give it, if she does not want to give it, and if i do get it, how she will respond to my contacting her - and how he will react. just had to do something!
 
just sent him a message and asked for her email adress. any info that comes out of this will be useful... if he doesn't want to give it, if she does not want to give it, and if i do get it, how she will respond to my contacting her - and how he will react. just had to do something!

I'm sorry about your father.

K and T have always been hesitant to contact each other, but just recently K did reach out. So it can change. I think you're right in going ahead and doing it. Changing people from an abstract (his other gf) to a concrete (Cleo) can make a huge difference on how you treat people.
 
I am so, so very sorry about your dad. My momma died a couple years ago, and I'm still devastated. I'm sending good thoughts and vibes your way.

I would be really hurt and angry at how C is putting Molly's needs and comfort ahead of yours, and I hope you all can resolve it in a positive way.

You have a lot hitting you all at once - be sure to take care of yourself during this time!
 
C wrote me a message telling me Molly does not want to meet me.

I then wrote him an email telling him that I'm sorry about that, but that it's her decision, and that the real issue is between me and him. That I feel unseen and neglected. That I was hoping for his relationship to develop, to become stronger and more important and more integrated in each others lives, and instead it's diminishing.

We then had one of those long and difficult phone conversations where a lot is said and basically nothing is said. He gets very defensive, and has a hard time listening to waht I really say. Example: When I told him it had hurt me when he had said that he thought of displaying a picture of me but did not do it because then Molly would see it, he got very defensive and angry and said It's my house! Surely I can decide what pictures I display or not?

sigh. Isn't that a textbook example of failed communication .....

Anyway. I left after the phone conversation (which left things pretty much unresolved) for an evening with MrBrown. Talked to him abut my issues with my dad's illness, family troubles, and C. It is always sooooo wonderful to talk to him - he believes in my strength, he believes in my power to handle things, and he is brutally honest. It was good to talk about C because it made me realize a couple of things about my own responsibility with regards to the things that went wrong the last couple of months.

I think it is no coincedence that I started dating C when my hurt and sadness about Ren seriously dating a woman I did not like and trust (and suffering a lot of anxiety and jealousy over that) were at an all time high.

C was hurt and broken after his very recent separation (and his divorce is still not final, and I do forget that there is a lot of pain there for him, still) and he clung to me for love and support. And I really enjoyed the fact that he was someone who needed me, only me, while I was no longer the ony woman in Ren's life.

I know, not very advanced poly :)

At the same time his neediness bothered me. So it was complicated, but I felt in control, because I either enjoyed his love and attention, or took time for myself to withdraw from it.

Now HE is the one in control. And I do think he's handling it badly, and not taking are of my needs. But the fact that I am responding so strongly to it, and can't let go (which could mean two things - either break up with him, or, as Anneintherain so eloquently put it, "keep a mostly rewarding but markedly flawed in one area relationship ") does have something to do with me as well.

Anyway. I've decided to hit the pause button (MrB's words). No contact for at least a couple of days. And then see how it feels We were supposed to go away together for the weekend in two weeks. I haven't cancelled yet, but I did check the cancellation policy.

I think the only chance we have is to start over. Which means to me: much less daily communication about trivial stuff, no more sleepovers at my house while Ren is there, and, for now, no sex. The sex is a big issue that we hardly talk about. Because of his inability to 'function' with a condom, PIV sex has been off the table since he started sleeping with Molly (and is fluid bonded with her). Which means we do other stuff, but that is not always working either, and its frustrating for me because I want him so much, I LOVE his body, and I don't know what to do, and it makes me insecure (it never made me insecure when he was just with me, but now that I know he has sex with her, it does).
 
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Im really sorry. I also know there's a big difference between wanting to meet a metamour, and being willing to exchange an email or two. Being shut down totally would lead to more discomfort than I would want to deal with. I think I'd feel like a non-entity :(. If C is not going to become monogamous with Molly, he IS going to have to face dealing with the existence of other people in his life and cut that defensive BS out eventually, especially if they're more local, so I'm sorry he's not tackling it now.

MrBrown is right though, you are strong and you will make the decision that's best for you. I do want to change my statement though, your relationship with him might have more than one marked flaw - it's become compartmentalized when you wanted the opposite AND you're craving positive sexual experiences with him that you're not getting, and may never get if he's not willing to work hard to overcome ED/condom issues. I've dealt with both of those in relationships, and one of them is hard enough but I don't envy having to deal with both of them in one. *hug*
 
So.

Where am I?

I didn't contact C for a couple of days. And I got the flu, which made everything seem so much worse, but was also good in a weird way - it made me able to really focus on myself, really look inside myself, and make decisions.

I read back through this thread. I realized that every time I was relieved and thought things would get better, it was because he said they would be. But then things didn't change (or they did, but for the worse).

I also realized that I've been unfair to him, and demanded things of him that I do (or did) not give him myself. It's true that the whole Molly / secrecy thing is a big issue. But other than that? I know he still loves me. Is it really his behavior that's causing the troubles? Is it my responses to his behavior?

There is only one thing I can change about the whole situation. And it isn't wether Molly wants to meet me. It isn't wether C makes me a priority. It's my own actions and reactions that I can control.

I sent him an email and said I want to start over, and differently. I did not really specify what would be different. I think it's up to me, mostly. I won't initiate contact so much. An email a day maybe, but not all the texting and that horrible messaging thing where you can see when someone was last online. I swear the devil invented this just to torture insecure control freaks!

We had a nice email exchange. We are spending next weekend together. Now my biggest challenge is to NOT start the cycle again.... where later tonight I will send him a text saying I love you and then will start waiting for the reply.

Trust and faith.

I know I sound like a teenager with petty relationship problems. I think maybe tis is because I never did this when I actually WAS a teenager? And I never did this with Ren. But then again I did not have to. We'd moved in together after 4 months :)
I did experience it a little with MrBrown. But he is SO incredibly clear about what he does and does not have to offer, that it's almost impossible to pine for him. C.'s flip flopping has made the insecure pining very easy. Not that I blame him - I think it's very possible that I chose him for this exact same reason: to experience this and to learn from it.

Anyway. I've been rehashing all of this so much I'm pretty tired of it and I'm guessing so is everyone who reads it. I hope this is truly the beginning of a new era. If not, I hope to find the strength to end it.
 
Oh!!! and with all that love stuff, I forgot to mention the most important bit of news.... drumroll please....

I submitted an article on spec to a major magazine in my country. I'm a published writer of articles and columns, but they have been mostly about another subject. I've recently started writing about more personal stuff, including my poly life, and wrote this piece that I submitted (after they had said they would be interested, without committing themselves).

They took a LOOOONG time in getting back to me, but I finally got word they're gonna publish it, and pay me good money for it, too :)
They won't publish until late fall, but it's very very exciting. This is a serious publication that I will get exposure in.

Well I say 'I' but it will be my alter ego. It will be published under an alias. I have very few secrets, but it's a very honest account of my life, which would be uncomfortable for other people. Anyway I don't care, the people who matter will know it's me (as will anyone who has ever read something by me, because I have a very distinctive writing voice - in my own language I mean) .

So, YAY!!!!!!!
 
Congrats!!!! And nobody's tired of reading about it - your processing helps shine a light on similar situations in others lives (ya know, like mine). You do seem to be learning from it, that's what this hard to deal with shit's about. Sucks, but gotta love these growth opportunities :rolleyes:
 
Congrats!
 
Congratulations! You really are a talented writer.
 
Congrats re the writing!

And don't worry about rehashing stuff. it's what you need to do, and you're certainly not the only one. I've seen a lot here that I recognize from my own experience, and it's been helpful to read your reactions and also to see that it's not just me.

I think you're on the right track with the idea that your actions and reactions are the only ones you can control.

If you're anything like me you'll need to come to that realization quite a few times before it really starts to stick. And you may find that it can be really hard not to start the cycle again. It's tough to disregard a way of thinking and feeling that seems innate, whose underlying assumptions you've never questioned (ok, that may be more me than describing you). And it can be tough to feel you don't any control over the course of the relationship (but maybe we never really have any control, and you're just more aware of its absence here).

Ok, I'm tired and probably rambling.

What I was trying to get at though was just to acknowledge that even if you feel you should do something differently, that you have contributed to the issues, those changes are hard, so don't be surprised or too hard on yourself if you find yourself getting stuck again.

And I hope you find a new balance that feels more comfortable for you.
 
Last night, within one hour, I had

- cuddled with Ren and reminisced a little about the Awesome Sex we'd had the night before

- exchanged emails with C. about the possibility of doing a little photo shoot this weekend - we are both pretty good amateur photographers, and it's been always a dream of mine to have someone I trust take beautiful naked pictures (or pics in nice underwear) of me. He was enthusiastic about the idea :) I think it will be fun to do something together that is erotic and sexy but not necessarily about having sex.

- exchanged messages and kinky pics that I found online with MrBrown, and discussed exploring our boundaries, things we could do in our next session, showing each other images of things we would like to do.

I do have a very nice life :)

************************

Also, feeling pretty relaxed about C at the moment. We stopped doing the messaging thing where you can see when one has last been online and it has made a huge difference. We talked on the phone on Friday, a nice long conversation where I updated him about the situation with my dad, he updated me about some stuff that's going on with him. Other that that we've been sending like one email a day. I am no longer obsessed with what he's doing and why he is not contacting me. There is definitely a lot more distance, also emotionally - but since I wasn't getting the emotional closeness that I wanted, I think this is good.

We'll be spending the weekend together. I am looking forward to it. Part of me is still sad about what I no longer have, and the things I dreamed about having with him. But only time will tell if what there is left, will be enough to maintain a committed relationship. At least I am no longer anxious, upset and terribly sad all the time... so, much has changed for the better.

Ren is traveling with Lou next week, and I have fun dates lined up - BGuy is coming over for what will hopefully be great sex, and Knight is coming over for dinner and hopefully cuddles - although I would be fine just giving him dinner, he hasn't been to my house in 18 months, we always meet in bars, and it will be very nice and relaxed to have him in my home.

Family situation still very sad and stressful and it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon. Trying to take care of myself as best I can, through connecting with my friends and loved ones, sharing my story, and having fun while I can.
 
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I have the house to myself, and right now, am waiting for BGuy to ring my doorbell.
Am a little nervous and excited. But oh I love this feeling. Waiting for someone you don't know very well but are very attracted to. Not sure how the evening will go. Excited. Turned on. Happy anticipation.

Love it :)
 
I hope your evening goes well, Cleo!:D
 
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