Communication, a double edged sword.

Amnati

New member
So,
I have read through a few books now on polyamory and I've delving deep in these and other online message boards. Everything has been saying to communicate, communicate, communicate. However, it seems that every time I open my mouth I need to stick my foot in it. Every time I try to broach a sensitive issue that is emotionally affecting me I get shoved in the dog house. My wife and I have been married for seven years now, and we have been poly for about 2 months. However during our time together I have always been the emotionally stable one, the one that was able and willing to compromise. Now that she is in the throes of NRE and I'm an emotional wreck, I'm not getting the compassion I need back to make it through this.

So what I'm considering doing (and had to sneak into her email to undo before she read my retardedness again), is laying the communication cards at her feet and stepping away. I will not ask about her weekends with her boyfriend (although my imagination is going to drive m nuts) she can tell me only what she wants to share, I will not volunteer any of my emotional bullshit that is going on unless she asks about it, and I will not approach her in a physical way (any physical way, sex, touch, kiss, hug, anything) I will wait until she comes to me. This way I am not exerting any attempts to control her, I am not invading her space and I am left alone to deal with my crap that is obviously bothering her so much.

I realize this is probably a very retarded approach to the situation, but that's about all I've got right now as talking about it gets me into a mess as well.

Thank You
 
You plans for the withdrawal of intimacy is just emotional blackmail and passive aggressive BS.
 
I am sorry you hurt. :(

I don't know how to best respond, because you sound like that was more of a "vent" than a request for input somewhere.

It is true that if she is not willing or able to provide you with what you need, you can't make her. But I wonder if you asked her for her willingness. Like "Are you willing to help me by doing ____? Are you able to do that at this time?"

It sounds like you need reassuring.

I wonder too if any these could help you:

It's ok to take a time out to gather self back together. But don't withdraw so completely that you are checking out of your marriage by putting up walls between you from fear of being dinged again yourself. She's not a mind reader. Sooner or later you have to come out to express yourself and communicate if you want to meet not jsut your own needs but the needs of the marriage. Not your need to be safe from dings, but the what the marriage needs from you to be healthy. It's not gonna be healthy with you hiding.

I assume you still want to be in it since you seem to want to talk and reach out to her. Does she still want to be in the marriage? You could ask if she's still willing to be in the marriage and do the work required so it can be healthy.

I could be guessing wrong here but it seems like there's several layers at once:

  • You seem to want to but not know HOW to best communicate with her. So is the problem with how you broadcast, how she receives it, how she broadcasts and how you receive it, or some mix and match thing?
  • You seem to not know HOW to handle it if she acts out at you (Aggressive moves?) and want to be free of having to endure being bullied?
  • You seem to not know HOW to handle it if she "punishes" you by putting you in the doghouse (Passive Aggressive moves?) and want to be free of "walking on eggshells?"
  • You seem to not know HOW to cope when your need/want is greater than she can provide at this time.
    • If not willing to provide... could you turn to friends to meet the needs? Family? Someone else?
    • If not able to provide at this time ... could you hang on until time when she IS free to provide it?

Is that in the ball park?

HTH?
Galagirl
 
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This way I am not exerting any attempts to control her, I am not invading her space and I am left alone to deal with my crap that is obviously bothering her so much.

Dag is right, this is just passive aggressive retaliation.

I encourage you to move away from taking action based on hurt feelings and confusion. Actions should come from your understanding of the details of the situation at hand and the intention to bring about constructive resolution. Anything else is just going to cause more wreckage.
 
That's why I deleted the email before it was read. However, I need to give her her own time to approach my most recent fuck up (a stupid email about my emotional concerns). It just has seemed like every time I open my mouth, I really shouldn't have. But that just means my emotions don't get expressed and I stew in a pot of creatively inspired doubts, envy, self loathing, fear, sexual anguish, and pity (jealousy is too broad to really describe my thoughts). I need to be told about what is going on this new relationship, I need to be told what I'm doing or not doing that is screwing things up, I would like it if she attempted some things that I have mentioned to reassure me and improve our relationship. But none of this is under my control. I'm learning that I get to sit back and "enjoy" the ride and let NRE ride out its course before I can get much of a say in things again.
 
Honestly what goes on in her other relationship is none of your business. She doesn't have to share every nitty gritty detail with you. Murf would have a stroke if I shared every aspect of our relationship with my husband. All my husband needs to know is where I will be.. when I will be home.. etc. Not the fine details.

It is NOT her job to make you feel secure. Stop being a needy emotional vampire and learn to deal with your feelings yourself. Stop the emotional hissy fits all you will succeed in doing is pushing her away and or make her resent you.
 
I understand that my emotions are my own to deal with, I understand that I have no right to anything in her life. However, it is very hard to just stop feeling emotions, it is very hard to stop feeling like you need something from the other person to hang in there. We are very new to this, about two months, I've been struggling the whole time. We both come from standard mono families and lifestyles. So I would appreciate a little compassion and constructive criticism instead as I try to tread in these waters.
 
To me it sounds like you need empathy, to be included, to be reassured, to be understood.

The other stuff is not "need." It is "want."

Could take a need inventory and use "need" words to help you better articulate your needs to yourself and to her.

Could also focus on the need on rather than on the method to achieve the need.

For example:

"I need to be included in her life." That is a need.

"I WANT to be told about what is going on this new relationship so I can feel included" -- that is a) not up to you and b) only ONE method of including you in her life. She can't include you in other ways? Of course she could.

Basically you can try your original plan and see how that serves you -- taking a time out to calm down in the short term is not a bad thing.

Then think of other approaches for the long term. (Because you can't stay "hiding" forever -- that's not participating in your own marriage. )

Could Google "emotional change" and see what that cycle looks like.

Maybe reading this thread could also help you realize you aren't alone in these roller coaster "we just opened" feelings.

What is it you fear? How do you see yourself getting through this?

Galagirl
 
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That's why I deleted the email before it was read. However, I need to give her her own time to approach my most recent fuck up (a stupid email about my emotional concerns). It just has seemed like every time I open my mouth, I really shouldn't have. But that just means my emotions don't get expressed and I stew in a pot of creatively inspired doubts, envy, self loathing, fear, sexual anguish, and pity (jealousy is too broad to really describe my thoughts). I need to be told about what is going on this new relationship, I need to be told what I'm doing or not doing that is screwing things up, I would like it if she attempted some things that I have mentioned to reassure me and improve our relationship. But none of this is under my control. I'm learning that I get to sit back and "enjoy" the ride and let NRE ride out its course before I can get much of a say in things again.

This is speaking from experience, on your side of the fence. Being the controlled stoic one who lost his mind for a time I get it.

Some things I know work, but take work, and sometimes, you never quite get it
  • You have to find a way to feel confident in your relationship so you don't get this emotional swing
  • Remember, this type of swing is not attractive, just saying.
  • Passive aggressive is a great way to push someone further, not try to bring them closer.
  • Try and find something to do. This should be the easy one. Join a club, go to a sports bar, go to the gym. Something that can both occupy mind and body that you find fun. Your mind and body cannot be connected to her mind and body. That clarity will help you feel better.
  • Find confidence in yourself as a person/individual

Poly is less about working on your relationships and more about working on yourself. You also probably feel completely out of control since this isn't your usual mental state. Thats a big deal. People sometimes forget that side. Suddenly being crazy when you feel like you are the stable one.. just feels that much more crazy.

I will also be honest, try to avoid getting into another relationship in a time like this. You need to figure out how to be sufficient on your own, and then in time bring someone else in. Otherwise you will end up using the new person as an emotional surrogate.

There is also a codependency portion to this that happens to people in general. Especially couples. She has someone new and that "side" of you is missing. I would recommend doing some reflection and reading on co-dependency. Maybe dealing with it from that side will help as well.

And this shit is hard.. :)..
 
This is speaking from experience, on your side of the fence. Being the controlled stoic one who lost his mind for a time I get it.

Some things I know work, but take work, and sometimes, you never quite get it
  • You have to find a way to feel confident in your relationship so you don't get this emotional swing
  • Remember, this type of swing is not attractive, just saying.
  • Passive aggressive is a great way to push someone further, not try to bring them closer.
  • Try and find something to do. This should be the easy one. Join a club, go to a sports bar, go to the gym. Something that can both occupy mind and body that you find fun. Your mind and body cannot be connected to her mind and body. That clarity will help you feel better.
  • Find confidence in yourself as a person/individual

Poly is less about working on your relationships and more about working on yourself. You also probably feel completely out of control since this isn't your usual mental state. Thats a big deal. People sometimes forget that side. Suddenly being crazy when you feel like you are the stable one.. just feels that much more crazy.

I will also be honest, try to avoid getting into another relationship in a time like this. You need to figure out how to be sufficient on your own, and then in time bring someone else in. Otherwise you will end up using the new person as an emotional surrogate.

There is also a codependency portion to this that happens to people in general. Especially couples. She has someone new and that "side" of you is missing. I would recommend doing some reflection and reading on co-dependency. Maybe dealing with it from that side will help as well.

And this shit is hard.. :)..

Throwing into the mix that we have a four year old is well makes it even more difficult. He and I get to "chill" without the car when she is at her boyfriend's and I'm feeling my most vulnerable.
 
Throwing into the mix that we have a four year old is well makes it even more difficult. He and I get to "chill" without the car when she is at her boyfriend's and I'm feeling my most vulnerable.

Thats tough.. do you get the chance to go out on your own? Do your own thing without the family? That could be a part of it too. A building resentment like that can make things heavily emotional.
 
I agree with Ari-having been in your shoes (and gone through my dramafest about the same time as Ari).

That said-unlike Ari-I did it with a little one at home and no vehicle-much like you describe.

Key-4 year olds are energetic-you don't EMOTIONALLY feel that way-but you can use that kiddo's energy to your benefit. You need to step away from what you feel like doing-and do something different, so you don't explode in these emotional disasters.

So-start taking walks on your block-race each other to do 10 steps or 20 or whatever (let kiddo win at least part time!).
going backwards-
hopping on one foot-
then the other

(yes this sounds silly-but these things teach the child physical skills that benefit them later, they are fun for kids and they will keep you busy)

Inside-color with the kid, get a special coloring book just for the two of you to work through together on these days. Whatever character is fun for the kid (spiderman, cars, tinkerbell-doesn't matter) and special crayons-just for that.

Grab the cookbook-plan out a special meal that the two of you can make together. Then work through it together.
Start some jello-time how long it takes to get cold. Be inventive-mix up flavors and make it messy.
Bake a cake or brownies and enjoy them together with milk and a movie "just for the two of you"

You can't "fix" the frustration of being housebound. But you can utelize that time to really make things great with your kiddo.
Go to the library-pick up some books-read them ONLY ON THESE DATE TIMES with kiddo.
Or pick out movies just for those days.


MAKE those date times all about you being a great daddy. Make them about bonding with your kiddo.
It won't be easy at first to keep your mind from wandering into "WTF is she doing with so and so"
But honestly-it will get easier.

Find out if there is a part within a mile or two of your place and make plans and go to it.

If it's sunny-put swimsuits on and go outside and play in the hose.

**********************

Communication is important-talking is not always communication

AND
communication can't be productive until after you deal with your own emotions. Which takes time.

On your part-
without focusing on the other person AT ALL.

Make a list of what it is you need in a relationship.
Explicit list like sex 5 times a week, a kiss every morning/night, xyz verbal contacts per day/week, x # hugs a day, etc.

Don't even think about HER-just think about what the minimum things are that you need in a viable relationship.
Keep playing with it for a few weeks.
Make sure you consider if it's a permanent need or temp.
Like-"when I'm sick I need 20 hugs a day but when I'm not I only need 2"
and "I feel secure and confident when I get to go to the gym 3 times a week, but on a bad work week I need 5"
I need x # hours alone (no kid, no spouse, no friend) a day/week


Figure that out-then you will have something to communicate about.
Because comparison won't help.

It has to be just about "I need to see you x times a week and sleep with you x times a week and hear from you x times a day"
Not "I feel like you and he...."
 
I agree with Ari-having been in your shoes (and gone through my dramafest about the same time as Ari).

That said-unlike Ari-I did it with a little one at home and no vehicle-much like you describe.

Key-4 year olds are energetic-you don't EMOTIONALLY feel that way-but you can use that kiddo's energy to your benefit. You need to step away from what you feel like doing-and do something different, so you don't explode in these emotional disasters.

So-start taking walks on your block-race each other to do 10 steps or 20 or whatever (let kiddo win at least part time!).
going backwards-
hopping on one foot-
then the other

(yes this sounds silly-but these things teach the child physical skills that benefit them later, they are fun for kids and they will keep you busy)

Inside-color with the kid, get a special coloring book just for the two of you to work through together on these days. Whatever character is fun for the kid (spiderman, cars, tinkerbell-doesn't matter) and special crayons-just for that.

Grab the cookbook-plan out a special meal that the two of you can make together. Then work through it together.
Start some jello-time how long it takes to get cold. Be inventive-mix up flavors and make it messy.
Bake a cake or brownies and enjoy them together with milk and a movie "just for the two of you"

You can't "fix" the frustration of being housebound. But you can utelize that time to really make things great with your kiddo.
Go to the library-pick up some books-read them ONLY ON THESE DATE TIMES with kiddo.
Or pick out movies just for those days.


MAKE those date times all about you being a great daddy. Make them about bonding with your kiddo.
It won't be easy at first to keep your mind from wandering into "WTF is she doing with so and so"
But honestly-it will get easier.

Find out if there is a part within a mile or two of your place and make plans and go to it.

If it's sunny-put swimsuits on and go outside and play in the hose.

**********************

Communication is important-talking is not always communication

AND
communication can't be productive until after you deal with your own emotions. Which takes time.

On your part-
without focusing on the other person AT ALL.

Make a list of what it is you need in a relationship.
Explicit list like sex 5 times a week, a kiss every morning/night, xyz verbal contacts per day/week, x # hugs a day, etc.

Don't even think about HER-just think about what the minimum things are that you need in a viable relationship.
Keep playing with it for a few weeks.
Make sure you consider if it's a permanent need or temp.
Like-"when I'm sick I need 20 hugs a day but when I'm not I only need 2"
and "I feel secure and confident when I get to go to the gym 3 times a week, but on a bad work week I need 5"
I need x # hours alone (no kid, no spouse, no friend) a day/week


Figure that out-then you will have something to communicate about.
Because comparison won't help.

It has to be just about "I need to see you x times a week and sleep with you x times a week and hear from you x times a day"
Not "I feel like you and he...."

Thanks, I'm going to try this. At least it is something other than beating myself up over this. IT's just been so hard to give him the time and energy that he needs because I've been in such a shitty emotional state. I wish I could go back to being the stoic hero that could take on any emotional threat and laugh. It was so easy.
 
Throwing into the mix that we have a four year old is well makes it even more difficult. He and I get to "chill" without the car when she is at her boyfriend's and I'm feeling my most vulnerable.

Whoa! Nope, sorry, that doesn't fly in our house. When we had little ones, I drove him to work and dropped him off or he biked. In case of emergency it was important for me to have the vehicle for the kids! I don't know if that's the same for everyone or if that's an issue as well, but it was just something we both decided. Hubby was NOT comfortable having me without a vehicle in case of emergency. He still isn't and we can ride or walk everywhere here and the kids are all teenagers!
 
Vix-we have that rule too. It's walking distance to everything-but whoever has the kids, has the car in case of an emergency.

BUT-OP,
if you need more kid suggestions-pm me.
Seriously!
I have kids ranging from 21 down to 6 and grandsons 2 and under.
22 years of experience thinking of how the hell to entertain, bond, tolerate, survive with kids-while dealing with life bs! :)
Definitely don't mind sharing.

It's just a step-but every journey starts with a step and if you can get this one handled-it will give you a healthy outlet for you and the kiddo-while working through the steps with the other stuff.

Also-look up galagirl on here and read through some of her posts on managing emotions-GREAT info and I use it. It works VERY WELL! Saved us from what had become repetitive drama created by emotional flooding. :)
 
You have a 4 yo so why not look at this as a chance for some one on one bonding time with your child instead of a punishment. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Do you work outside the home? How about your wife? Do you and your wife get couple time without your child away from the house?

As for the car thing.. I can see where you would feel trapped. But in a true emergency how would your get home from her boyfriends home without it. Another solution maybe that he should come get her so you have the car.

I am sorry but I am not going to pat you on the head at tell you what you want to hear. I am going to tell you my honest opinion as someone who has been on you wifes side of the issue.This is a public message board.
 
Dag,

I appreciate your honesty and I know sometimes a slap to the face is what ids needed to shock someone into thinking. I know I've been acting whiney and throwing fits, however everything is new to me, the emotions, multiple relationships, physical needs that are not getting met (but hearing about sunshine else getting those same needs attended to without hesitation). I was in a lot of pain the other day and have been having a hard time coming to grips with everything. I have not been in my wife's shoes and to me it has felt like the only thing I have been doing is giving for her relationship and not getting anything out of it. I know that what I'm doing is pushing her away, especially since she is an introvert and I'm an extrovert. Throughout this it has just felt like her needs are the most important and mine can go screw themselves, at least from my perspective. I know I have codependency issues, my father had them and I'm very similar (more emotionally out of touch though). So I'm going to focus energy on that. I have a close friend who I got back in touch with who is poly and she is going to be my emotional dumping ground before I do anything stupid again. So hopefully I'll get things moving on a healthier track. Anyway, your advice was spot on, just hard to take at the time.

About the car and the kid situation. I can get around town fairly well by bike and trailer. She takes the car to see him as he lives an hour away. I'm still adjusting and would have a hard time if they stayed here and I would have no where else to go, it's tough being sexiled from your own house. It also makes it tough as we are financially pretty strapped (damn the educational system) and really can't afford her trips down, let alone additional expenses of me trying to go anywhere to make connections. It's rough, and probably only going to get rougher when the term starts again.
 
Stop the tit for tat, keeping score, etc.

You have every right to ask for what you need. But you have no right to get anything from her relationship. Stop with the well you owe me x because you got y. All it does is make her feel like she is being blackmailed emotionally. Again you have every right to ask for what you need from her. You have no right to assign a price to her relationship with her boyfriend.

As someone who is an introvert who is married to a man like you. The quickest way to get pushed out of our lives is be emotionally clingy. My husband almost successfully pushed me right out of our marriage.
 
Regarding dates/cars/expenses.

One of the things that I think is being missed (by many) is that sex isn't always an option on a date.
There is no reason they can't minimize some of the extra expense and him travel up to see her-and they go hang out in the park, take a walk, a hike, spend quality time together-talking, holding hands, loving each other, etc-OUTSIDE and out of the house.

I read all of these posts about "she/he has to go there because if they came here I wouldn't have anywhere to go."
REALLY?!?!
We have kids. I can't count on one hand how many times my bf and I have had sex in the last 6 months! We freaking LIVE TOGETHER. But-kids come first. With Maca out of town working-that means we are TOGETHER every day-but we can't GET TOGETHER without the kids conveniently enough to have sex.
SO WHAT?!?!
We love each other. We don't make every date about getting off. We make our dates about connecting and sometimes when the stars freaking align we have fucking awesome sex too.

I find it mind boggling that people think that they should automatically be guaranteed that they can get bedroom time with their partner-just because.

When you have kids-privacy is harder in the first relationship. When you are juggling a relationship with another person that time crunch is EVEN HARDER. When you are doing both of those and you don't want your kid exposed to the second partner, so your first partner is keeping kid at home so you can date-it's EVEN HARDER.

Sorry-stepping off soapbox and backing away so you can resume regular programming.
 
Trust me I know it is hard to "date" with kids. I have 3 kids... Murf didn't meet them until we had been together for 6months. Both my guys work shitty shifts. Butch 3p to 11p 7 days straight with 2 days off. Then an 8 day stretch with a 4 day weekend. Murf works 6p to 6a. 2 days on 2 days off every other weekend he works 3 days. When my oldest was home it was easier. He has moved to Illinois for college.

Most of the time my 10 yo and 6 yo comes with me to Murf. During the school year things get interesting.

Every 6 weeks Murf and I get a weekend alone. And maybe 2 other evenings alone. The rest of the time we have kids in tow.
 
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