"Trapped in Poly" (HMA asks for ideas)

HMA's Side of the Story (was "Trapped in Poly")

Oh boy.

So Violet and Lana and Adrian and I have been moving along okay, some tense times but a lot of good ones, per other posts Adrian moved in a couple weeks ago and Lana is no longer "just a friend" and is officially a "girlfriend" now - we're now about as poly as it gets in this house, save for none ofthe girls have outside interests yet.

Violet has been struggling with several personal issues of late. Without going into detail, she's been "unsure of who she is anymore" and all kinds of issues have arisen, even so far as to cause doubt on our relationship (never mind the poly ones)! Things have been worked on, but it's been a struggle for sure. The other girls have largely been helpful, though also occasionally a cause of stress as well, cuz we're a house with 4 humans in it, lol.

So now it boils down to - Violet feels teerribly threatened by Adrian, and has other issues with outr relationship as well. She's fine with Lana. But it's gotten so bad with Adrian that she says she feels sick seeing her even hug me. And they are not communicating worth a damn anymore, the tiniest conversation turns into an argument.

They got along fine 3 weeks ago.

The thing is - Violet approved Adrian and I seeing each other. Then approved adding Adrian to the relationship. Then approved moving her in. Vioet was informed of the progress between Adrian and I romantically, and was told when it was approaching the "point of no return" - and had no issues. Adrian has very few - essentially none - connections in town, no family, no real friends; she has thrown a lot in with us by moving in. She is also VERY in love with me - and WAS (would like to be still) with Violet as well. Adrians first and long awaited experience with a women was with Violet. She's also become fairly close friends with Lana. She has a kitten here, lol. Adrian isn't going to just go away - and frankly nobody but Violet wants her to.

Violet is in agony over this, and she's my soulmate. I can't bear to see her like this!

Adrian is deeply hurt by this, and is scared to death that I'm going to dump her to save Violet's heart. I am very in love with Adrian and couldn't concieve of such a thing.

All 3 women have stated their desire to be with me, to be in this household, to make everything work - but Violet, who introduced poly to all of us in the first damned place, is literally ill over this issue. And she can't figure out why - she openly admits that's it's irrational.

What do you do when everyone wants to be here and is willing to share - but one member irrationally hates another, to the detriment of all? And that member happens to be part of the "core" of the group?

She feels trapped, and we all feel scared and hurt.

Ideas? :(
 
MeganNow - we have spent so many hours talking about this - as a group, in pairs, one on one - that the thought of a "talk" sends us running for the hills, lol. To the point where none of the rest of us can haveserious talks right now, 'cuz we're all so burned out from the Violet talks (some of which have been 5 hours long)!

The NRE was between Adrian and I; Violet has been fairly lukewarm toward Adrian all along. Liked her plenty, unsure if she wanted to date her too, altough the option was explored, both in a surface way and physically. Violet moves VERY slowly with women, always has.

I hear you Mono, and it's killing me. But one also has to realize that Violet set this whole thing up! She did not actually pick Adrian as a potential partner - she fell into MY lap - but she approved everything every step of the way, even after Adrian moved in. This all came up at once, almost literally overnight. Moving her out is NOT an option right now; she has nowhere to go, money is very tight - and we just freakin' moved her IN a couple weeks ago, and moving sucks, lol. Oh yeah - MINOR detail - nobody WANTS her to move out.

Thanks for the replies all.
 
Well, since this thread is about me - I guess I should probably chime in.

The NRE between HMA and Adrian was absolutely NOT just between the two of them. Whether or not I was lukewarm the entire time, that NRE spilled out and over into HMA and I's relationship. I've been really struggling. I saw him happy. I haven't been able to single-handedly make him happy. Therefore, I got caught up in it all, seeing everyone be able to be okay for a minute. I gave her the "ok". I didn't take the time to really focus on what my issues were, which I acknowledge was my fault.

My personal issues, and my relationship issues, in my opinion were finally starting to get worked out when Lana and Adrian came along. All the NRE and conversations and drama of adding another person to the house forced that to take a backseat. It got worse. Very quickly.

Adrian has serious social anxiety, and she was unable to open herself up completely to Lana and I. That didn't start happening until after she moved in. That's a fact. She feels she tried, HMA kept trying to help us see that she was trying to open up - but frankly, Lana and I just didn't get to know her very well.

Now that she HAS opened up to me and to Lana, and HMA says they're "past the point of no return", well - jkelly is kinda right. I am really getting to know Adrian, and I really don't like her. The hardest thing for me to deal with is that she really, REALLY reminds me of HMA's ex, Symphonie. I openly stated when I met Symph that she was NOT someone I would ever seek to be friends with in the real world. Adrian is the same way. I don't understand her sense of humor, I don't understand her communication, she makes little comments and jabs that while harmless to her - really hurt me. And Lana.

Everyone in this house prodded and prodded at me to start talking. They could see my discomfort about the situation - I was trying to deal with it. When I finally started talking, MONTHS of shit spilled out. I dislike Adrian, but am trying to learn to deal with it. I mean, I like her as an acquaintance, but she's not really someone I can be close with.

My biggest struggle right now is that I don't understand how a nearly 2 year relationship can take a backseat to something that's only been around for 4 weeks. ONE MONTH. I am literally sick over this - I'm so stressed I'm sleeping all the time (and it's not quality sleep), I'm throwing up everything I eat (I've already lost several pounds), and I'm subsisting on basically cigarettes and water.

HMA thinks that I'm irrationally disliking her because of my issues of feeling threatened. I'm realizing that I dislike her, period. They were having sex tonight when I was going through a difficult time - and it made me throw up. I hate seeing her with him.

I thought HMA was the man I was going to marry. I still hope to marry him. I'm going to try to see this situation through for at least a couple weeks and try to find a comfort level, at which point we're all supposed to sit down and re-evaluate where we all are. They all (Lana, HMA, and Adrian) feel as though my mind is already made up. That I want her to leave. I'm starting to seriously see that THEY have THEIR minds made up - that she isn't going anywhere. No matter what I have to say.

Where I'm at is this:

I'm committed to really trying to get through this. I love HMA. I want him happy.

However - I'm getting to the point where I understand that three is too many. Lana and I really understand each other, and communicate very well with HMA. Adrian communicates very differently - she's "logical" to a point of being illogical.

I've been here for almost two years. I have a ring on my finger. Lana's been getting to know us for a year now. She's my best friend, and now, HMA's lover. Adrian has been here a month.

Lana and I have both expressed a dislike of the situation, and a dislike of Adrian. Lana likes her a little more than I do, but she'd rather not deal with her, especially because of what it's doing to me.

For some reason, HMA is so concerned with hurting someone that he's hurting me. HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH ADRIAN IS PAINFUL FOR ME. It's not that he picked her and I'm not okay with that, it's not that only *I* get to pick the women he's with. He picked one, the NRE spilled over, and now that we've gotten to know her - we don't like her. And apparently, he's so far past the point of no return that he's willing to not only put a 2 year relationship and engagement in jeopardy, he's also willing to lose Lana (who has openly stated that without me, she's not in this).

I was struggling with some issues, mostly personal insecurity. Adrian made these issues worse, to a point that I cannot deal with them anymore. I warned HMA that I was going to be VERY time intensive and that it was going to take a lot of work to get through this. He says he tried. I say things were just starting to get better, despite some completely unnecessary resistance from me. It's hard to admit you have a lot of problems, and ask for help working through them. Especially when you're just out of your teenage years and still have a little bit of "NO! I CAN DO IT!" leftover.

Adrian threatens me because what I feel I need is for HMA to demonstrate some understanding, and really LISTEN to the fact that I tried to like her. She tried to reach out, she tried to let me get to know her. She cries over the fact that I don't like her, and I can't help it. Sometimes, a situation is just too much. She threatens me because HMA is SO CONCERNED with not hurting her, that he's willing to hurt me. It's not her fault she is who she is, but in my personal opinion, keeping her in a situation where only one person really likes her is hurting her far more than telling her, "I'm sorry - we thought this was going to be something different. We don't all mesh. You should find a situation where you can get all the understanding, love, and attention you need."

I am very afraid that I will spend the rest of my life miserable and tenuous because of the relationship HMA and Adrian have. I don't like her, I can't deal with her. But I won't leave HMA or Lana. I love him too much. I love her too much.

Adrian is going to get hurt. Badly. I'm trying to keep an eye out for her, but it's really hard. The only reason she and I will get close is a "keep your enemies closer" situation. I am willing to try to set that aside to get to know her better, but I think I will always resent her. I'm scared I'll resent HMA for putting me through this. He said he'll resent me if I make him leave her. He also said if I leave, then his other relationships will fall apart because if he can't keep me happy, then he can't make anyone happy.

This is way too much, way too fast. I can't do this. He won't put the brakes on with her and focus on me because she has needs. I get it - but then I'm not getting what I need either and well, pardon the fuck out of me if I feel like the woman HMA plans to MARRY should come first.

I feel like he's putting 4 weeks of NRE before me. An established engagement and life together. A house together. I shouldn't have let the NRE get to me, or let my issues and insecuities go unaddressed. People make mistakes. I'm sorry for them - but at a time when I need more love, reassurance, and understanding - I'm sharing that with someone who is very needy, who HMA is still caught up in NRE with, and who he really seems to care for more than me.

I love poly. I loved the relationship Lana and HMA and I all had. She misses it. I miss it. Adrian came in during a very unstable time - and we can't deal with it. He loves her too much to let any of us go. But the feeling I have is that by forcing Adrian on us - he's pushing two of us away. I'm scared. I'm hurt. And I have no where to turn.

I either deal with it, or I leave.

Help?


I'm exhausted from crying. I can't keep taking sleeping pills to calm myself into sleep. I can't eat. I can't keep being miserable and sick. I don't want to leave, even for a few days, but I'm starting to feel out of options.

And might I just add - I know that's all just how I feel. I'm leaving stuff out. I know that. It's just how I feel. Please no one (not even you, HMA) attack me for letting my feelings out and asking, once again, for help.
 
Thanks to everyone for replies. I've been having a lot of emotional blow-outs lately, and I unfortunately had another one last night. I said several things I shouldn't have said, and when I tried to talk to HMA about it; well, I feel like he just shut down.

Everyone in my house just comes back to the "But butbut butbutbut YOU GAVE US YOUR BLESSING!!!!". I don't know how to get people to see past that. Yes, I did. I can give several reasons as to why I did, and why now I see that that was a bad idea. I got very angry at HMA, and did everything and said everything but "It's her, or me.". He saw it coming, and he told me if I can't just let all this go and trust that my needs will be met - that it will end our relationship.

Apparently, everyone in this house is emotionally drained because of me and my constant need for talks and my emotional blowouts. HMA definitely doesn't have the emotional energy for this right now - hell, he told me that some 8 conversations ago. But I don't know where to turn. Maybe if I'm going through a rough spot, I should try to post here instead. Poor Lana has now spent countless nights trying to keep me calm, and letting me vent. HMA has tried, but he's getting to the point that all I am to him is a constant stream of drama.

I called friends last night to see what they had to say. Every singe one told me that I don't deserve this, that I'm obviously miserable, and told me to leave. My dad offered to let me come stay there for a few days if only to clear my head, but people in this house know that some bad behaviors I have are reinforced and learned from my dad, so they're expressed discomfort in my going there. I made the decision to stay another day - it's all I can do at this point. Take it one day at a time.

I'm willing to try to get to know Adrian better and deeper. Hell, maybe she'll be anything from tolerable to a good friend to a lover if I do. I don't know. Lana told me last night that she is swinging back and forth between being really offended and angry with Adrian, to thinking she's an okay chick. Lana is going crazy - she said that HMA and I are not the same people she fell in love with. I can see "myself" so clearly - I've been able to for a while now, and I just can't figure out how to grasp onto her and bring her back.

HMA feels as though I haven't tried. I think I tried awfully hard. Two sides to every coin, and the truth in the middle. I guess neither of us can see the truth. I keep apologizing for things that I don't really feel are my fault to try to keep the peace. Maybe I should just leave for a while so everyone has a minute to breathe and get away from me and my issues. I'm scared that if I leave, I won't have a home to come back to. Everyone is so frustrated with me that I'm terrified they'll come to the conclusion they're better off without me.

I don't know how to try when seeing HMA and Adrian together breaks my heart. He slept with her last night (I told them it was alright), but after my breakdown I couldn't help but feel as though he was just going upstairs to comfort another woman, leaving me high and dry. I took sleeping pills and went to sleep. He tried to spent a few minutes with me before I went to bed, just to cuddle for a minute and reconnect. I told him I couldn't do this for much longer. He thinks I baited him into a conversation - all I wanted was for someone to hold me and tell me to breathe, and that it would be okay.

I can't get an ounce of positive reinforcement. I can't use the "veto power" to say, "Baby, your relationship with her is hurting me. I need you to at least slow it down so I can get my bearings." He told me he won't do that. He's not willing to have her leave. I don't know what to do. Again, so focused on the fact that I DID give my blessing, and not willing or able to focus on why I'm seeing, in retrospect, that it was a bad idea.

I didn't want to be monogamous with him because I didn't want to lose Lana. Maybe I should have thought about it longer, harder. I don't know anymore.

Maybe, if he's willing to spend some time reconnecting with me, like Mohegan said, that would be a good idea. I just don't know how the hell to bottle it all up and do that. It's worth a shot. I think decompressing would be a good idea.

I'm thinking about it, and I think that creating a thread on here to vent would be a good idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with this situation, or a similar one. Mohegan seems to understand on a fundamental level - maybe as I work through my feelings, they'll be able to help someone else.

I don't want to lose HMA, but I feel myself slipping away. I'm so scared, so hurt, and so drained that I'm at my wit's end. The only thing I can do now is demonstrate a level of trust and understanding I'm ... well, not 100% comfortable with. But I've done it before, and if HMA still loves me (which he says he does), then I'll find the strength in here somewhere to do it. Again, I appreciate everyone's replies. They really do help.
 
"Misery loves company". I am not going to argue on here, there's enough of that at home right now.

I am NOT putting a one month relationship ahead of my engagement. From an alternate POV, Violet is.

Two or three BRIEF conversations, immeditely after which Violet stated "I can't talk to her and if she can't open up to me that's her fucking problem" - actual quote - does NOT constitute trying to get to know someone.

Adrian has NOWHERE to go, and NO money after moving in here. I suppose she could save up for a few weeks, neglecting other financial needs and bills though. You know; the exact situation we said we'd help her get OUT of?

Violet has turned this entire household into her personal soap opera. We all love her - Lord knows I do! - but this is so far past ridiculous as to defy explanation. Nobody in this house can do ANYTHING, AT ALL, without getting Violet drama on them. Everything revolves around her constant need to remind us all how miserable she is in the bed SHE made. I am not wanting to put others ahead of Violet. I am not wanting her relationshi with me to take a backseat. And the asinine part is, niether is anyone else here! She flip flops her position every few hours, drags us all into laborious discussions every time she does, and than does it all again. She insists on driving everyone batshit crazy and crying when they won't focus on her - ALL THE TIME. Nobody is pushing away from Violet - we're RUNNING. INCLUDING LANA, which Violet does't seem to grasp, especially when I'm with Adrian and she drags the poor thing around like a kid with a miserable new cat, forcing it to play. Every time Lana sees an opening she bolts to her room and locks the door - but can't refuse when Violet comes crying back up to her.

Violet honey - we love you. All of us. We want to help you. YOU'RE DRIVING US CRAZY AND DRIVING US AWAY. Chill out. Breathe. Live life. Maybe Adrian stays, maybe she goes, nobody knows. But what you're doing right now is making everyone - including yourself - miserable.
 
Different things work for different people in different situations. Some people move fast, some move slow; some operate in the moment, some are more methodical. Most of us here move fast and work in the moment; always have, always will. There are upsides and downsides to each and every unique way to work. I readily ackowledge the fact that a speed bump hit at 5 mph is a very different experience than that same bump struck at 50 or 75 - but some people just can't drive 55, ya know? So you build a vehicle designed to handle large bumps at high speed, and fix whatever breaks. In my experience, those that drive slow to prevent damage also tend to take forever to repair things, lol. I drive fast, and fix shit fast when it breaks so as to get back on the road. :shrug:
 
Upates have been slow because we've been working through things and not hanging out oline...

Things got quite a bit better after soe drastic measures.

This morning Adrian was on my laptop and read this thread, first time she'd seen some of what Violet posted.

For SOME reason, she's shocked and freaked out. Go figure.

3 steps back... *sigh*
 
Thank you to everyone, yet again, for your replies. I haven't had the time to collect myself and post up my current feelings, because some things have changed. Others, obviously, haven't.

We are dealing with the unfortunate situation that HMA just posted about with Adrian, and as soon as we're able to all calm down for a minute and feel heard and understood, I'll post up where at least I stand - and with Lana's help, maybe where she does too so she can get some insight. I'm sure HMA will do the same, and try to accurately represent Adrian's as well so we can get some honest feedback - which has proved, to me at least, invaluable in dealing with sorting out my feelings, getting back in touch with "me", and learning to better deal with the situation (ideal or not) that we've found ourselves in.

Thanks again everyone. Much love! :p
 
*BIG OLD FUCKING DISCLAIMER* THESE ARE MY FEELINGS. THIS IS KIND OF A VENT. I'M ASKING FOR HELP AND OPINIONS. PLEASE NO ONE READ THIS AND HAVE A FUCKING MENTAL BREAKDOWN.*

Hello again everyone.

I almost deleted my account here. HMA encouraged Adrian to create an account (which apparently she did) and read through the boards and maybe post on her own. After the last time that happened, and the reaction that came from it, I frankly felt as though I couldn't post here anymore. But, I decided that the support I get from everyone here is so invaluable to me during this ungodly time is something I can't let go of right now. So here I am, consequences be damned.

The last few days have been yet another emotional roller coaster from HELL. There were a few good hours in there - a cursory agreement was reached that Lana and I (but mostly me) would trust HMA to do as he saw fit in the situation. That means spending time when and where he saw it best to do so based on the needs he perceived from everyone, and taking the time to do it in a way that allowed him to not stress how everyone was feeling. It sort of worked - he was feeling much better, and for a minute, I was too.

After the blowout of Adrian reading through this thread, she's had several changes of heart. She went from outright saying that she had no desire to try with Lana and I anymore - that she'd respect us, but was done reaching out and trying to be friends. Today, she told HMA she was wanting to bite the bullet and let everything go and try to be friends and get along again.

Lana and I have been through the emotional ringer. We're both done trying. I'm going to stop speaking for her, though, unless she's sitting right next to me. Because apparently, that just makes for too much need for clarification on her position. So, it's just me here now. I'm so done with this shit. I have come to the point where now, whether rationally or irrationally, I absolutely HATE Adrian. I hate her. HATE HER. I'm not sure there's anything left inside to try WITH.
 
(Part deux because the forum hates long posts.)

*Ohm*. I'm completely willing to acknowledge that a lot of my hatred is probably ill-placed. She didn't do anything THAT HORRIBLY HEINOUS that should elicit such a response from me. I think I hate the situation more than I hate her, but it's just sort of bleeding out all over the place and making me kind of hate everyone. But it's at the point now that no matter how calm I feel, the moment I step into a room with her - I want to beat her face in. It's bad. I can be understanding and willing to look after her needs when I'm not faced with her. The minute I'm in her general vicinity, all my caring goes the fuck out the window and I don't even really think of her as a person with wants, needs, and feelings of her own. When I look at her, all I can see are the parts of her personality that conflict with my own, the problems in HMA and I's relationship, Lana's stress and hurt, my own insecurities, HMA's stress ... the list goes on. All she represents to me now is a big ball of stress and drama.

HMA and I were supposed to be working on "us". It's become obvious to me that without the Adrian situation getting addressed, it's impossible for me to just work on the he and I problems. The reason for this, I feel, is that she IS one of our problems. The relationship she has with HMA is bothering me so deeply that it's clouding everything else. And I'm just not able to let that go. I guess it's a personality flaw of mine. Or something. I dunno. For whatever reason, it still stands, I can't let it go.

We're trying to address the situation. Figure out how to make it work, make it better, make it go away, whatever. And HMA and I have VERY different ideas of what will work.

He still thinks that if we all just trust him and accept each other's offers of friendship, it will all be okay. With the emotional response she elicits from me - it's pretty obvious that I'm not able to just accept her at face value and put all this behind me. I just can't do it.

I think that moving her out, but not ending her relationship with HMA is the best option. If I'm able to acknowledge and look out for her feelings when she's not around and in my face - it's obvious to me that it would be best for all involved to get her the fuck out of here. For EVERYONE'S sake. HMA thinks that Lana and I just want her to leave so that we can gradually phase her out. It's really exactly the opposite. I want her to leave so that we can all calm the fuck down, pursue our own relationships at their own pace, and gradually get past the hatred and bullshit and try to get to know each other like we should have in the first place BEFORE addressing the possibility of moving her in again; if that possibility even is a reality when all is said and done. Lana seems to be with me on this, but again, I won't speak for her. HMA doesn't see this as an option because of our financial position right now. The stress has kept everyone from working, so money is a little on the tight side. He also views it as horribly unfair to her to move her AGAIN in such a short period of time.

We're trying to come to a compromise here. I feel that forcing her on me is hugely unfair to me, but I can understand where forcing her out when she doesn't seem to WANT to go is unfair to her, too. I just can't get my head around why she would want to stay in this situation. She keeps saying she's so afraid I hate her and want her gone - well, she's right. I hate her and I want her gone BUT the only reason I want her gone is so I can stop irrationally hating her, get to know her, let her pursue her relationship with HMA in peace, and let me get my head on straight. If I were in her position, I'd personally be raising my hand and begging for someone to get me the fuck out. I've even offered to work an extra day a week to help pay her bills and have a gradual plan to move her out so it's not an immediate pressing thing.

He doesn't want to talk about all this with me because it's unfair to leave her out of the situation and keep her in the dark about her future. I understand this! It's fucked up! BUT - I state again, knowing the emotional response she elicits from me, if all 4 of us sat down to try to hash shit out, I'd get riled up almost immediately, say some very blunt and hurtful things (all of which are true) with NO qualifiers; and the whole thing would break down because people will get hurt and defensive and others will get angry and I just think it's a damn recipe for disaster. HMA thinks that that's okay, and we just need to all sit around the table until something gets worked out.
 
(Part the third because the forum REALLY fucking hates long posts.)

I think HMA is so done with all this - hell, he's STATED he is - that the only thing he's *WILLING* to see at this point is his own point of view. He's so sure that if everyone would just trust him and act on HIS perceptions that everything will be okay. He claims to be a neutral party, who can ignore his own needs and since he cares about all 3 of us girls; he can come to an accurate conclusion for everyone to go on. (Or, several for us to argue over the validity of.) I'm just not so sure about that. I trust HMA, sure - but I don't feel like my viewpoint is being taken into consideration at all. And truthfully, in his current emotional state - I don't think he's equipped to MAKE a decision and a conclusion like that. He can't be more emotionally stable until the situation is more stable, but the situation can't be more stable until we're ALL stable, I can't personally be stable without a whole lot of talking things out, he can't keep talking about it because it makes him stressed, which makes him emotionally unstable. And the vicious cycle just keeps going and going and going and going ...

I'm more than willing to consider viewpoints other than my own. I'd like to sit with HMA, or HMA and Lana and get some solutions and compromises worked out to bring to her. I'm willing to hear her own solutions and compromises. I may have to write them down and take them elsewhere so I'm not clouded by my negativity towards her; but I'm willing to try! The changes to my life are so painful and so stressful right now that I'm willing to try just about anything. As long as it's a compromise and all options are looked into.

I look at my life, and the people I love right now, and it puts me into one of the darkest places I've ever found myself. The man I love, want to marry and am engaged to, and plan to spend the rest of my life with is the worst emotional wreck I've ever seen him. He just wants to see his girls happy, and he just wants us all to get along. In my opinion, the sooner he acknowledges that that's just not going to happen right now - the better off he'll be, and the more willing to seek alternatives. I'm in the worst place I've ever been. Lana, who had once felt so safe with us, has voiced a possible desire to get a place of HER own because she's sick of feeling tense and out of place in her own home.

Adrian spends all her time tense, scared, and lonely when she's not with HMA. She's struggling with HMA and Lana's relationship. She's made amazing sacrifices to try to make this all work, some met well, others ill-received, and others ignored. We've all tried, and arguably, she's actually tried the hardest. I haven't had the mental capacity to try my best - but now with the situation and how I feel toward her, I'm STILL not able to try my absolute best and dedicate the time and attention to this is deserves. None of us are. She's in a horrible situation, and I acknowledge that. I don't know why she insists on staying in it when there are possibilities out that don't involve forcing a friendship that's one sided and full of resentment. She wants to be with HMA, and doesn't want to move out of the home he and I share with her right now. I get it. Sometimes what's best isn't always what we want. And yes, that goes for me too.

So right now, as he's upstairs putting her to bed and probably fucking her - I'm staying out in the driveway so I don't have to deal with the situation. I feel like I can't go in my own house. All of us dread coming home. All of us dread spending alone time, especially HMA and I because all that happens is drama and horrible, long, stressful conversations. But without working through it, nothing will get better. Ignoring it won't make it better. We can't step back from the damn situation BECAUSE WE ALL FUCKING LIVE TOGETHER. I've considered leaving, but my fears of not having a home to come back to still nag at the back of my head. I also realize I don't trust leaving HMA alone with Lana and Adrian right now. It's convoluted and a nasty cobweb of emotion and insecurity and god knows what else to try to explain why I don't trust him being alone with them. Either one of them.

I'm sitting in my driveway, typing this on my laptop, waiting for him to come back downstairs so he and I can finish talking. Try to get somewhere. Stop feeling stuck. Help me not feel trapped. Help him not feel caught in the middle. Help everyone feel less tense. But we always just seem to argue because we're both stubborn. We both think we know what's best. I'm willing to budge, but I don't know how much. We never seem to get that far in the conversation because we get so caught up in who should talk about who budges and what they budge on in the group vs. alone vs. paired off vs. 3 of us and it's just ... so fucked up.

I think I have the most to lose in this situation. An engagement, the man I plan to spend the rest of my life with. He feels she does. She has "nowhere to go". I am once again left feeling unimportant. He says since he spends so much time hashing all this out with me, he has no idea how I feel unimportant. Hashing shit out isn't making someone important - it's stressful and godawful and just sucky all the way around. It's not spending quality time, it's working on the situation as a whole. But, no one else sees it that way. So all my time with HMA is spent trying to get this figured out - and whatever he does with the other girls is his business. Supposedly. Nevermind that I can hear everything that goes on with Adrian because my room shares a wall with hers. Doesn't make things any easier.

They're talking right now. He feels I had him all day. I haven't spent more than a few hours of real, honest to god, quality time with him in the last couple weeks. So, I'm going to wait. And we'll talk more. And probably argue more. And I'll post here again - and hopefully, sooner or later before one of us goes suicidal or homicidal - we'll get this worked through and we can all remember what being happy feels like.
 
Violet's Side of the Story (was "Wiggling Out Of A Tight Spot")

A continuation of this thread:
HMA's Side of the Story

I'll replace this text with a link to my situation and such once I'm done with this post and I can wade through and find it.


Since disclaimers are apparently necessary in my situation for now, I'm going to make a blanket disclaimer and state once again, for the record, that the only thing I can post here is MY thoughts and feelings and perceptions. I can try to accurately represent the thoughts and feelings and positions of others, but I'm not saying I'll get it right.



So, during my last post in the Trapped thread, apparently a lengthy and intense conversation was had by HMA and Adrian. A lot of accusations of lying and manipulation had been flying around - Adrian toward me, and Lana and I toward Adrian. I have dealt with lying problems in the past (a function of a dysfunctional family, unfortunately) that I've worked EXTREMELY hard to get over. And frankly, I'm a god damn stripper. Manipulation and lying is in my job description. I can see where people would worry. But, with all of my efforts to not bring that into my day-to-day life anymore, any accusation of such is met with some pretty serious hurt, offense, and raised hackles.

HMA has decided that Adrian isn't lying or manipulating the situation at all. He says he's willing to approach all of this a just a REALLYOMGFREAKINGSERIOUS misunderstanding, or - he'll have to acknowledge that if that doesn't work, then the only other alternative is that I'M the one lying and manipulating. Naturally, that isn't sitting well with me. He tried to reassure me that what he was going to talk to me about wasn't a test or anything, and that he was approaching it all as the misunderstanding he's hoping it is. I am, understandably in my opinion, freaked right the fuck out by that.

We started talking and were interrupted by Lana needed to be picked up from work. He said he needs to talk to her alone. I'm mistrustful of that for some reason. I haven't worked through why. He said he has no ulterior motive. I ... guess I'm not sure I completely believe him.

Anyway.

Apparently, Adrian did an awful lot of introspection today. This culminated in her seeing why maybe Lana and I have so much trouble understanding and dealing with her. As I understand it, she has an "internal voice" that's very critical of her. She's self-deprecating, I guess you would call it. And sometimes that gets away from her, and she deals with the people around her the same way she deals with herself - very harshly, and very critically. She's come to the conclusion that while she does have a lot of issues with how I've handled the entire situation and situations within the situation, that the person she has the biggest problem with is herself.

HMA says she wants to sit down and have this group discussion because she wants to apologize for how she's handled things up until now, have a chance to explain herself, and beg ("on bended knee if necessary") for a second chance with all of us, but especially me. She also wants to especially apologize to Lana for her behavior during one specific emotional outburst that frankly, I don't remember if I ever really talked about or not. I guess it's probably not important.

I'm going on about 1/4 of a conversation here, but I think I should make sure my thoughts are completely clear. HMA has assured me that when he gets back, we'll talk more - sleep be damned. He tried to reassure me that he loves me. That he really is looking at all of this as a misunderstanding. I'm skeptical. And scared. Really, really, REALLY fucking scared.

I think I'm the most scared because if HMA does come to the conclusion that I'M the liar and manipulator, then all of my efforts have been meaningless. All of my efforts to keep that at my job and eradicate it from day-to-day life have been completely unsuccessful and that I just don't think I can handle that. I think I might have to very seriously consider leaving. Poly can't work if all parties aren't trusted. I didn't lie or manipulate anything. Believe me, I got through a lot of life that way - lying to people and manipulating situations to work out in my favor - that if I was doing so, not only would I know it but because of the love and respect I have for HMA I would ADMIT it. I'd cry about it. I'd apologize. I'd ask for help - help from him and friends. Therapy if necessary. I'd get to the point where I stopped doing it. 100%. I'd quit my job and find another line of work if I had to. I won't handle leaving well. Not at all.

But I guess that's all beside the point. Adrian coming to the conclusion that she needs to apologize and ask for a second chance and a fresh start sort of is right now. I think I need to work through if I can accept that and be willing to listen and consider it. If the situation is past the point of no return and I'm completely unwilling to let that happen. Hell, I'm still skeptical that even THIS isn't a manipulation on her part. HMA is convinced it's not. I don't know her well enough to make an accurate judgment like that.

So what does one do? I acknowledge an irrational hatred toward her that clouds my entire brain when I'm in the same room as her. It's stupid, frankly. But I can't seem to help it. It's just ... there. Looming and threatening me when I hear footsteps coming down the hall. I'm tense all the time. It's ridiculous. I realize I make it sound over-dramatic, but I can't even begin to describe it. It's so fucking weird. And so unlike me.

Maybe it's really just hatred toward the situation and a convenient target. Maybe it's all valid and I honestly hate her to the point of seeing red. Maybe it's insecurity and fear on my part manifesting itself as anger and hatred. Maybe none of it's valid and it's all a seriously fucked up and subconscious manipulation on my part. I don't know, I guess. I can hope that the rest of HMA and I'd conversation will help me to decipher how I feel, and maybe set some of that irrational hatred to rest. Maybe I need to "go back to my roots" and really make sure I KNOW what I want out of a poly relationship. Make sure that HMA and I are solid and in agreement about what WE want out of poly.

Honestly, I've been willing to give her and the entire situation a second chance this entire time. I've merely been asking that she get out of my face so I can sort shit out without her constantly being around. Without having to hear HMA fuck her. Without having to deal with her little OCD behaviors with the dishes that frankly aren't that big a deal but right now are making me want to murder puppies. Without having to work with her. (Yep - just in case that wasn't clear, all three of us girls not only live together - we fucking work together in the same club. *dies* No escape.)

She told HMA that during a conversation she and I had privately, I'd asked her what SHE wanted out of the situation long-term. See, I'm a very "long term, big picture" kind of person. Without knowing some hazy outline of what the future may hold, I can't live in the day-to-day. I'm methodical like that, I guess. Always planning not only one, but 100 steps ahead. She said that when she told me, she saw a look cross my face unlike any other she'd seen. A look of the sheerest anger anyone could contort their face into. I remember very consciously holding back any knee-jerk reaction and asking to come back to it. I had no emotion toward it - I didn't LET myself react to it at all. I remember she told me three things - and I only remember two. She said she'd hope to get married to HMA, and to maybe someday have kids.

Without really sitting and thinking - and I mean REALLY sitting and thinking, I can't accurately say how I feel about that. Some ducks need to get in a row before I can even start to address that one. HMA and I obviously aren't a strong foundation for a poly relationship right now. But, then again, if he and I aren't on the same page about being a "primary" couple - well, we aren't much of a foundation. He's just one guy dating three chicks, one of whom happens to have a ring on her finger.

We've tried hashing out the "primary couple" thing a couple times now - it always seems to devolve into an argument. I definitely think that needs to be settled so I know how to progress. I thought Adrian was coming into this as a unicorn looking to date a couple. Last I heard, that wasn't the case and she's only interested in HMA and maybe open to the idea of a relationship with me. But they'd still be two separate relationships. ...Yeah, that one's definitely got to get worked through.

As far as her coming to this conclusion that she's a large part of the problem, and she wants to get a second chance - I think I'm willing to give that to her. My knee-jerk reaction to it, however, is that HMA have a LOT o' Shit to hash out between the two of us, and that she should still probably look into getting her own place for a while so we can do so without any left over negativity from the situation. So that no one feels forced to get along because we all live together. Nothing to color the situation.

I haven't examined it on a deeper level yet. But I will - and I'll have more conversation with HMA, and I'll post again. I may have done a 180. I may have taken a few steps back. With any luck - it will be a few steps forward.
 
Well, now everyone knows where Violet stands, lol.

Surprisingly few of the replies here give much thought t the fact that hers is one of 4 positions here, and that's kinda sad. I'm going to resist the urge to pick apart her posts and argue them piece by piece; but there's a strong desire to do so.

Part of me kinda sorta suspects that just maybe after seeing the damage done when Adrian read the first posts, dumping all that on the boards might finish the job. Especially since any "Adrian positive" breakthroughs seem to take days to get posted, if they are at all, but this stuff just comes and comes... I really hope that's not the case.

In any event and for the record, I did NOT encourage Adrian to come here or create an account; she did that all on her own.

But we're all making progress, and it's good right now, so whatever.
 
Hoo gracious. I'm not letting this thread devolve into a big HMA vs. The World Of Poly and HIS personal mistakes. All 4 of us in this situation have made mistakes, and the big problem here is that while I will vent and ask for help here, I tend to not always post when things are good. That's what this thread is supposed to be for. HMA posts when he doesn't know what to do, asks for input, and rather than coming back and continuing to respond to the advice and help and such, he tends to ignore the poly boards and work very hard on the situation at home. He doesn't take the time to say what he's been doing to work on things - he only tries to be concise with his points.

I made it abundantly clear that this is only my viewpoint. I can see where HMA is feeling attacked and steamrolled over. Based on what I presented, it's possible to see where one point of view is, but it's difficult to really get accurate information when all 4 of us aren't posting up our positions.

I do feel that in many ways, HMA has been a little selfish and hasn't really taken the time to consider what I'm going through. But, he feels differently and he has his reasons. The other two girls have their own thoughts and feelings as well. There's nothing wrong with that. My venting has enabled me to not only feel supported by the people who post publicly, the people who have taken the time to send me PMs, and the people who have gone to extraordinary effort to send me IMs and spend hours talking to me and helping me through the situation.

So please, everyone get your dander the fuck down and let's just move on. Several conclusions were reached about a good way to handle the situation - hell, the way we're planning to go about it is actually MY idea. Lana helped me get to a better place in my mindset, and this allowed me to come to HMA and together, he and I came to a great compromise and are planning to sit down with Adrian, present it to her in a way that she will understand to help her grasp the situation and allow her to give some feedback and input. HMA has said that after that conversation, we will again sit down as a couple as make sure we're alright with what we come up with. Lana may or may not take the role she previously did in our relationship as a friend to both of us and help us to understand one another. But the follow up will be mainly he and I as a couple to ensure that as the "primary" relationship (a term HMA HATES with more passion than I've seen him hate anything, lol) we are alright with it.

I was able to very clearly present to HMA what I need and want out of poly, and how I need to feel secure. He has acknowledged this, we talked about what HE needs too, we took into consideration how Lana and Adrian feel - and now, he and I are on the same page about it. We're both comfortable with the conclusion we reached.

I will post again in just a little bit once I get everything more organized in my head so that it comes out right. But things are moving toward a favorable outcome, finally. An outcome where EVERYONE feels heard and understood and considered. I will still thank everyone for your replies and the time you've all taken to give input on this situation. Again, it's been ABSOLUTELY invaluable to me in reaching my comfort level and helping me to accurately portray what I need and want and actually get it.
 
To those of you still posting in this thread, please read my "Wiggling Out of A Tight Spot" blog. A conclusion has been reached that I'll post up soon.

Gwendolyn, thank you for so concisely explaining the definition of a cowgirl. I really appreciate it. I've been trying to explain that, and people who have PM'd me, etc have tried to bring it to my attention unsuccessfully. You've made it very easy for me to explain my fear about Adrian being a "cowgirl". It's really one of my last hangups.

HMA and I came to a great compromise and we're all 4 going to sit and talk. I'll post what the compromise is, the outcome of the conversation, and the followup HMA and I have afterward so everyone can help. Thanks again. :D
 
I am going to *try* and set aside a TREMENDOUS amount of anger that still exists toward some of the members here and make a post. And no, that anger isn't just at YGirl and aIL2M - whoever moved my general section thread here under a new name can consider themselves part of this now; especially as that thread is in no way "my side of th story", especially not after Violets novella-esque posts.

I am extremely sensitive about the Harem", "thinking with your little head", and "selfish" comments. The implication and even outright statement that I"m manipulating things to my own ends is even more offensive. Like, this guy can't POSSIBLY actually be a decent man who works his ass off for and cares deeply about the women kind enough to share their lives with him. And to that I said - and continue to say - fuck you.

Violet changed my life. She is the first woman I've even known who was far more interested in getting to know me for who I am than for who she could change me in to. That's a damned rare trait in a woman, I'm sorry to say. She helped me find myself again, loved me for who that was, and continues to do so. Somewhere along the line, we discovered that I'd always thought of as an impossible relationship structure was actually her preferred one. It took her over 6 months to convince me this was true and get me to look into, much less date, much less have sex with, other women. But in her own words "you're the kind of guy every woman I know wishes existed and has given up finding, and I would be doing womankind in general a disservice and it would be awfully selfish of me to keep you to myself when I am happy to share you with them". I was not, am not, and never will be worthy of such praise, but I spend each and every day trying to live up to that statement.

Which is why all those comments hurt so badly. Above even that is the fact that my commitment to fair thinking is extreme. So when I see something similar to what has gone here posted elsewhere, my response is generally something to the effect of "sorry to hear that, much love, but I'll reserve judgment until I've heard the other side(s)". Which is precisely what nobody responding to Violets posts has done. So I feel steamrolled by people who supposedly pride themselves on fair thinking and open mindedness, in a place that I too use to seek refuge, advice, and support. The personally directed attacks about me being a manipulator who 's trying to live a harem fantasy - well, I've already voiced my pure and seething reaction to that.

Throughout this process, we talk as a group. After which, Violet wants to talk to just me (regardless of what the other parties think of this as fair). Sometimes for hours - after talks that generally last for hours. And when she FINALLY lets me go AND GOES TO SLEEP - I get to have that conversation again. And then again. Generally, about the time I'm finally done with that, she's awake again - and has had some more thoughts, and want to talk either to me or the group. On top of this, I get very poor sleep when I do get to try because of my pain.

I cannot state clearly enough that this has been the pattern off and on for weeks now, that I have in no way exaggerated it, and that I have had more than 3 consecutive hours of sleep exactly 3 times in the last month. Yes, 3, exactly, those days are precious and burned into my memory. I sometimes get as many as 4, usually less. I get by with a 30 minute to 1 hour nap in the middle of the day in addition to those precious hours. Violet can and I'm sure will (she won't lie bout it) verify this. Almost the only thing I do that doesn't relate directly to dealing with all this is attend doctors and meetings with lawyers. Our social life consists of going out - in pairs or as a group - to another location where the same topic is always the topic. Saying we won't talk about it THIS TIME results in anyone who's able to corner me alone for any period of time talking to ME about it, since that's not with the group and therefor, it would seem, doesn't count.

And for the most part, I don't mind. But for most of that time, it's been Violet having the breakdowns, Violet calling the talks, Violet keeping me awake past the point of sanity, Violet shooting down damn near every idea that anyone puts forth, and Violet changing her mind on a dime and starting it all over.

Oh yeah - and Violet taking advantage of time I spend with other partners to post all over polyamory.com, where everyone takes her side and makes insulting comments about my commitment and motives.

Well, we got past it. Things are moving forward in a positive direction, and we have some breathing room.

This may or may not be the last time I ever post here, seeing as when things are good - you know, when I have time to post here? - all I apparently do is post about our happy romps. Which, by the fucking way, I cannot find one single post where I do any such thing except in passing as it relates to a development or correlates to someone elses post; thanks anyway.

Support place indeed.
 
This thread never was and still isn't "my side of the story". I was asking for input, Violet hijacked it, I responded, and the mods renamed and moved it, because this place has no room for more than one POV in any given situation - and that POV is almost exclusively that of the woman in the group portrayed as being hurt. Good luck with that.
 
...But you sure read Violets, LMAO. Point made.

I forgot to add something for the new lady, who posted about the cowgirls/boys - you're on to something there, and we've already been through the wringer with one of those. The problem is, all 3 of my girls have fit that description at one time or another, as do roughly 2/3 of the single women I have ever known. Just sayin'.
 
YGirl - One of them was already IN life stories and blogs. And the one you moved still isn't "my side", but thanks for naming the thread with your opinion. And I could care less "which thread is whose"; that's an issue YO created with your renaming. The original was an honest "anyone have any ideas" thread in the General section until she hijacked it; true story. SHE recognized this fact and started the new one, interweb courtesy.

Ilove2Men - you didn't insult her and question her motives. I assure you, she would have replied far nastier than I did had you done so. But by all means continue to read only one side of the issue and spout off - it suits you at this point.

I'm done.
 
Add two more names to the list of people willing to make judgments with half assed information, two more reasons to never come back here.

I distinctly replied to both of those, but YGirl has decided that I am the only persn on this forum who houldn't be heard. You see, I am the only person on the entire board that is NOT ALLOWED TO BE OFFENDED.

Post fter post after post after post of people making assumptions, judgments, and outright slandering me based on NOTHING - and I have the AUDACITY to be horribly offended?

I suppose it would be FAR less offensive for me jut to pok through each pf their post histories and the threads they've participated in, come up with all kinds of conjecture about their situation based on what others post about them and a lot of assumptions, and then call them all kinds of horrible things and question their motives?

I'm not going to take the time. Frankly, if each of you had just said THAT to me, I'd have a far easier time dealing with it. But you won't; IT'S INSENSITIVE AND RUDE - LMFAO! RUDE! As opposed to the other shit that is going on here, THAT'S FUCKING RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You people are amazing, lol.
 
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