Marvel's Tale

Marvel

New member
My history is this: my husband and I have been married over 20 years. I'll call him JN. We have three children, two are still at home. I have been a stay-at-home mom for most of child #2's life and all of child #3's. I have had some health issues that started after child #2 but before child #3. These issues have caused me to gain (and lose and regain) a fair amount of weight. our marriage has had its ups and downs but I don't think anyone would say that it has been less that a solid happy marriage, even me.

but then several months ago my husband sat me down and told me that he was pretty sure he is poly and told me that he wanted to be able to see other women to make friends and have sex if it worked out that way. He also mentioned having an interest in BDSM. I was shocked, and very upset. He went on to say that he knew he couldn't do the BDSM things with me, but that he wasn't seeking women just for that. I was crushed, I cried for days, couldn't eat or sleep. he kept telling me that he didn't want to leave me and that nothing was wrong between us.

and here it is several months later and we are still together and he is as sweet and loving as ever, but I can't shake the panic I feel whenever he wants to discuss opening our marriage.

I ask him why he doesn't just leave me if he wants to have all these other women, and he tells me it's because he loves me and doesn't want to live without me, it's just that he wants this too sometimes.

I am so afraid that he will leave me though once he finds someone else who is thinner and has fewer health problems. He tells me that's not true, but I feel it is. Our sex life has not dwindled away like others we know, even during hard times or when I was having rough spells. So I am very confused.

I don't want to lose him, but I don't know that I can share him this way.
 
Has he ever given you a reason to distrust him previously? If not, accept what he is saying as true. He came to you instead of cheating, he is being patient while you process, and he has stuck with you for this long that it's clear he loves you and wants to be there with and for you.

Some people aren't poly. If you can't share him that's fine. Don't blame your trust though. Find the real reason. You're either jealous or selfish or just don't believe that's how things work. All of those reasons are acceptable. Not believing the man you love when he tells you his feelings isn't and it will hurt both of you.
 
Hugs to you - that feeling must be a little bit like dying, and my heart goes out to you. There is nothing easy about facing a poly situation when a) it's not something that you want and b) isn't even necessarily something that you knew existed.

Use this board to tell your story, share your feeling and journal. It's a safe place with tons of people who have been through similar challenges; maybe not identical to yours, but at the very least, some enough to provide you with compassion and sage words of wisdom during a difficult time.

I think the thing that you're realizing is that this isn't going away. Your husband has this idea in his head/heart/soul, and it fits for him. Now it's up to you how YOU want to proceed. If it is something that you don't want, that's totally okay - you may have to make the impossible choice of walking away from your marriage in order to honour the ideals that you hold around relationships. That is your right. As fucked up as this may sound, it's your husband's right to express, and ultimately get what he wants out of life as well - not against your will - that would make him an asshole (in my opinion, anyhow - maybe not in everyone else's).

You have SO many rights if you do decide to stay with him and open up your relationship with him. It is not an all or nothing thing, I don't think. You have the right to make agreements/boundaries/rules with him, you have the right to set limitations about how much & what kind of time he can spend with other women. I think it's all about perspective. If you come at it with the idea that you might lose him in the process of poly, everything about poly is going to seem like a threat. If you look at it as though it's ALMOST like a hobby - like bowling, with benefits - you might be able to start seeing it as an expansion of a particular part of himself.

Questions for you - why won't he have BDSM sex with you? Can you see yourself being poly with anyone else?

Share, process, and remember you're amongst friends here, even if some people are WAY more okay with things that you're not (yet, or maybe ever).
 
Reply to BaggageControl

Yes, at first it was a lot like grieving. I don't think I have ever felt such emotional pain. And thanks for the hugs.

The reasons he will not explore BDSM with me are because I have no interest in those activities, and he says he knows I would just be "going along", which would be a turn-off, and that he is afraid of hurting me, and sex with me for him is about gentle, passionate love-making. Therefore he feels he needs someone else who is into that and that he doesn't have a loving sex history with.

As for seeing myself poly I honestly don't know. My husband has said that if we open our marriage that means it is open for both of us, but like I mentioned in my other post in the advice section, I have had some health problems that have made me very sensitive about my body. One commenter said that I should not worry about that, that there are men that like women of all kinds, but it's difficult. I have been with only my husband for so long, and happy to be so, I don't think I even know what it's like to flirt any more. Certainly since my health problems led to my weight gain I have put thoughts of other men out of mind because they just see an unattractive large woman I'm sure because they don't know what I've been through. My husband knows all that has happened to me, and he makes me feel secure enough to be myself. I can be sexy with him because I know he is not judging me.

We both have very close friends as a couple and separately who are like family to us so really it's not the wanting more friends to be to that triggers me it's the wanting to have sex with those new close friends that trips me up. We are each other's best friend and lover and we are married. if he becomes super close with some other woman who is into BDSM and starts having sex with her where does that leave us?

I guess I worry that being with another woman who likes the kinky things he wants and doesn't have body issues will change his thinking of me, that he will begin to judge me by her.

I have tried to think of it like a hobby, but it is hard. Free time is precious for us. He works a lot of hours in a demanding job. When you add time for his own activities that he already has, time spent with the kids, and time needed for things around the house, I am not left with much as it is. Now he wants to add another person into the mix?

I want him to be happy, I want to keep our marriage, but I am feeling less secure in our relationship than I used to.
 
Vin: He has told me that he is very happy in our marriage, that he loves me very much, and that my weight does not affect the love and desire he feels for me and has all these years. We had some hard times a few years ago when he, like a lot of other people we knew, was unemployed for a long time. It was hard on him as his family gave him a lot of crap and made him feel like he was letting me and the kids down. He has said that those times made him love me more because I stood by him when a lot of other women would have left.

We are quite close and still regularly have sex when other couples we know aren't or hardly ever.

I think that's why this has shocked me so much. I was to trust that nothing he feels for me has changed, but somehow hearing him say he wants to be able to have sex with others makes me feel like all the things he's told me were not entirely true, that he's been dishonest to me or to me and himself. I don't feel that way 100% of the time, but when I do, it hurts a lot.

I sometimes feel that he is saying what he wants to be true, that nothing or no one will come between us, because this is the ideal he reads about on boards and in books. What I find hard to take about this is that a lot of those people started the relationship as mono-poly/poly from the start. They do not have 20+ years, a mortgage, and three kids between them.
 
I think that's why this has shocked me so much. I was to trust that nothing he feels for me has changed, but somehow hearing him say he wants to be able to have sex with others makes me feel like all the things he's told me were not entirely true, that he's been dishonest to me or to me and himself. I don't feel that way 100% of the time, but when I do, it hurts a lot.

This comes as a shock to the system because when you enter into a monogamous relationship, you don't expect for it to be anything but that. Many people are led to believe that while their s/o may have wanted others before becoming exclusive, it's not expected to be the case once you're committed to one another. So don't feel like it's uncommon. It's not.

Pretty much why a lot of husbands get flack from their wives for looking at other women, because they're "not supposed to". There are bucketloads of things you're "not supposed to" do when you get together, much less married.

I sometimes feel that he is saying what he wants to be true, that nothing or no one will come between us, because this is the ideal he reads about on boards and in books. What I find hard to take about this is that a lot of those people started the relationship as mono-poly/poly from the start. They do not have 20+ years, a mortgage, and three kids between them.

I think you'll find the longer you're on this particular board you'll see the variations on life that people have. Quite a few of us have children, own houses, and have been together for decades. You're not alone; I promise. :eek:
 
What I find hard to take about this is that a lot of those people started the relationship as mono-poly/poly from the start. They do not have 20+ years, a mortgage, and three kids between them.
Oh, that's not true. There are plenty of people who were monogamous for decades and didn't know of any other way to be, all that time... until, for some reason, a light went on. And they still have a mortgage, raise kids, vacation together, visit family, and have jobs.


We are quite close and still regularly have sex when other couples we know aren't or hardly ever.

I think that's why this has shocked me so much. I was to trust that nothing he feels for me has changed, but somehow hearing him say he wants to be able to have sex with others makes me feel like all the things he's told me were not entirely true, that he's been dishonest to me or to me and himself. I don't feel that way 100% of the time, but when I do, it hurts a lot.

You don't have to feel like you've been betrayed. Many people never realized they could have multiple relationships and didn't give it a thought. For lots of folks, something simply triggered the idea. It could have been that they saw an article or news item that gets them thinking, or a friend confessed to having a polyamorous arrangement and piques some curiosity. Then when they learn about it, things start to click inside them and make sense. It feels right for them on a very visceral level, even though they never gave it a thought before. You don't have to assume that he's been lying to you this whole time.

Nor does it mean that you are lacking as a partner. What people don't realize is that we want different things from different people. Poly means you can enjoy the smorgasbord. Just because a married person feels they want to be able to have relationships and be sexually intimate with other people, doesn't mean they are dissatisfied or would leave their spouse for any reason.

I had a date this week and the guy kissed me and told me he wanted to see me again. I had to stop and reiterate to him that I don't want a monogamous relationship (I had a sense he didn't really "get" it). I said to him, "I just want to make sure you understand that I already have a lover, and if we continue seeing each other, that won't change. I don't want to be exclusive with anyone, and neither does he." I said a few more things to clarify this for him, and then my date asked, "Well, how's it going with your lover?" And my immediate response was, "Great!" Because it is great. Wow, was this guy ever surprised. He did a double-take and said, "Oh." He actually slumped and looked sort of dejected.

The thing is, it never occurred to him that I would be on a date with anyone else if it was great with the guy I'm already seeing. I think that is where you are stuck. You are trying to find some fault, mistake, or flaw in you or your marriage that would have prompted this. And there really doesn't have to be any of that. It's hard to wrap your brain around, I know, but all I can say is that sexual desire is a tricky beast and that love is a part of all of us and has no barriers. It seems your husband wants friendships in which he can be emotionally, intellectually, and physically intimate, and to be able to try new things sexually that he knows wouldn't work for you. He need not set you aside to do that, and none of that takes away anything form what he has with you.
 
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You say your health issues have triggered body image issues.

There are people I know who have colostomy bags who have fabulous sex lives. I know a lot of GI and GU issues can cause disturbances in body image, but I assure you, there are lots of people who are tender and understanding.

As for having a perfect body, I'd love to meet the person who has one. (Really, I'd LOVE to see that. ;) ) I can tell you due to my own medical issues, I have some huge surgical scars. You know what most people say? "Neat."

Love is a lot deeper than a pair of size 6 jeans. I can't advise you in your marriage, but you deserve to have your body image under control.
 
As for seeing myself poly I honestly don't know. My husband has said that if we open our marriage that means it is open for both of us, but like I mentioned in my other post in the advice section, I have had some health problems that have made me very sensitive about my body. One commenter said that I should not worry about that, that there are men that like women of all kinds, but it's difficult. I have been with only my husband for so long, and happy to be so, I don't think I even know what it's like to flirt any more. Certainly since my health problems led to my weight gain I have put thoughts of other men out of mind because they just see an unattractive large woman I'm sure because they don't know what I've been through. My husband knows all that has happened to me, and he makes me feel secure enough to be myself. I can be sexy with him because I know he is not judging me.

How sexy could you feel if you have two men not judging you? :)

And I know, believe me, how difficult it is to read what others say and think it might apply to you ~ especially when it's about body image. My health is crap (I have a genetic condition that makes my joints dislocate, at random. It's very painful and causes many other issues as well, including GI. At my heaviest, I was 75 pounds overweight). My problem is more that I feel like a playboy bunny on the inside...which doesn't in any way match what's on the outside. I just wanted to testify that your body image doesn't have a helluva lot to do with how other people see you.

I guess I worry that being with another woman who likes the kinky things he wants and doesn't have body issues will change his thinking of me, that he will begin to judge me by her.

This is what prompted me to reply. I see a lot of folks say this. I haven't come to this from your experience. (I'm in a vee with two boyfriends who were previously exes, and I asked them for this) What it has done is made me love both of them more. For allowing it. For loving me anyway. I'm so much more tolerant of their flaws because I have both of them. In my case, they are also friends (the three of us have always been friends). But I will point out, I live in the (mostly) same mono culture as you, and it's been challenging, I think for all of us (probably me most of all).


I want him to be happy, I want to keep our marriage, but I am feeling less secure in our relationship than I used to.
Of course you are! Your world as you knew it has turned upside down. Give yourself a break. And give yourself, and him, some time to show that it might not actually be upside down, it's maybe like adding a new room (or suite).
 
Hey there and welcome to the mind fuck. Even though you might think that our positions couldn't be more different, as I am the one in the position of your husband, I know exactly what you are talking about. I have had a really hard time coming to terms with this whole poly thing. I really hope that you won't take as much time as I needed to wrap my mind around the facts, as there have been some years that needed to pass till I was able to face the truths about my feelings and desires.

When I fell in love with my best friend, I was waiting for signs that the love I felt for my husband would decline. It was the only way I was taught love works. When I couldn't reach a point where it would have felt true to say that I love him any less and after long introspections (questioning my love for my husband, questioning the love for my friend) I had to admit, that I loved him just like before, that nothing changed and my conclusion back then was: You are just totally weird.

So as others have already said, this takes time. Keep on thinking about it and when you theoretically have grasped the concept, try to experience it if you yourself reach a point where that would be an options. In the case of my husband, experiencing it was the only way he himself was able to really decide if this was for him. He needed to feel (just as I had experienced it over the years before) that my love hasn't changed. When we finally were in that situation and nothings changed in regard to the 'feel' he got from me, he said it was ok.

If someone would have confronted me with this concept on a purely theoretical basis, I think I wouldn't have consented to 1) this being possible at all and 2) to be part of it. From my point of view, some things can only be understood when we have had the experience. It's important to build a solid foundation and walk slowly into something like poly, but you can think about it as much as you want, sometimes this won't make up for the practical experience.

To your mono/poly topic and the longitude of relationships: poly relationships are so unique, it is tricky to make general statements. In our case we will have been together for a decade this year, we never have thought about an alternative lifestyle or have had experiences outside the 'normal' monogamous marriage. And we were happy like that. When I fell in love and when I came to terms with my feelings, things changed structure wise, but our marriage stayed the same. This is still the way, we do relationships. The only part that is missing now, is the exclusivity. That's all. I think it is great that you had the chance to be together this long and make sure of what your partner is really like. You don't have to struggle like some newly formed relationships with getting to know your partner, you are used to manage the every day trifle that can become a real thread to a relationship and you have mastered some hard times already.

Don't feel insecure as long as your partner still makes sure that you have the same attention as before and don't feel insecure jut because he said that other may be important to him as well. Don't be insecure about your body and project this onto your partner. I know how hard it is when the image your mirror is showing you has nothing in common with the person you want to be, but don't judge this in your partners place, as you can't see what he sees in you. You may be just right for him.

I hope things will become a lot easier and processable for you in the near future. You have come to the right place to read and ask questions. If you haven't done it yet, try a tag search under the search options for "mono/poly" or "marriage". You will find many unique stories from others, some will be written from your perspective. Maybe that helps to think about all the possibilities out there. Good luck to you.
 
Vin: He has told me that he is very happy in our marriage, that he loves me very much, and that my weight does not affect the love and desire he feels for me and has all these years. We had some hard times a few years ago when he, like a lot of other people we knew, was unemployed for a long time. It was hard on him as his family gave him a lot of crap and made him feel like he was letting me and the kids down. He has said that those times made him love me more because I stood by him when a lot of other women would have left.

We are quite close and still regularly have sex when other couples we know aren't or hardly ever.

Then I'd remember, when considering how happy and ready you are to take this step, that he IS happy right now as things are. Wanting him to be happy is great, but remember that you being happy is also a key ingredient in things. Don't find yourself trading your own happiness in to make someone who already is happy more indulged.
Find ways to appreciate yourself and spend time working on you in ways that make you feel good. You have a husband and three kids. Part of giving them your all to ensure their happiness is to be happy yourself. This is what you should work on first rather than working on being okay with the big change your husband is asking for.
 
Yesterday

Yesterday I spent the largest majority of the day crying. JN, my husband, sat and talked with me, held me and talked with me.

It comes to my being afraid:

I am afraid he will value his ability to have sex with others more than us.
I am afraid he will compare me to them and find me lacking, that he will want to replace me.
I am afraid he will disagree with my boundaries and we will fight all the time.
I am afraid he will decide to leave.
I am afraid he will make choices that violate our agreements, and I will leave him.
I am afraid that one of those choices will mean that I end up with an STI/STD.
I am afraid the other person will hate me, make comments about me, and he will listen.
I am afraid his dates and events will take over our life together, that he will leave me home alone, to take care of the house and kids alone.
I am afraid he will convince me to try to date myself, but then no one will want me.
I am afraid he will convince me, I will find someone, and then he will change his mind, and then hold anger at me for doing what he wanted.
I am afraid our oldest (or any other family)will find out and never talk to us, or that our younger kids will find out, not understand, and resent or hate us.

I see so much risk, and for what? So he can be more than just friends with a few women? How does this help make *my* life better?

I could end up with a disease.
I could lose my oldest child, family, and friends.
I could severely damage my marriage.
I could lose my marriage and my home.

He wants me to give up feeling safe and secure, to take this huge risk, and has not really given me any idea what my return would be. A happier husband? How does that benefit me? The ability to date myself? IF anyone would have me, and I'm not convinced of that. I give up security, give up time with him, and risk disease, and get nothing in return? Why should I do that?

If he takes a hobby, I think someone mentioned bowling, he does not run the risk of getting and/or giving me herpes or AIDS. And if something is hapening with me healthwise, the bowling alley won't get pissy with him for not showing up. Or try to convince him to take it on a trip, or buy it jewelry, or stay all night.

I think we are looking at this from two very different positions. He sees all the fun and sexual experiences, and I see all the dangers and hurt that could hapoen. Until we can both see more of the other's viewpoint, nothing will change.

I just hope his patience doesn't wear out before that. :(
 
Addition to my last post

Obviously the mood of one's spouse affects them. I remember what he was like when he was unemployed. It affected everything and everyone in our house. So I can get that his being happier will be a benefit for me. I guess I was thinking more of a direct benefit for me.

Also 90% of the last post was me continuing to vent. JN was very loving, and reassuring, and honest with me. It is true though that I feel he does not give as much serious consideration to the dangers this decision exposes us to as I do, and I feel he is being a bit "rose colored glasses" in his statement that none of his activities with other people would have any effect on us.

Of course it will. His dates will take time away from our family, money away from our budget, etc. And I have some concerns that he seems to feel differently about like whether there can be places off-limits for dates, and how other things will be handled like family privacy and so on.

I am not dating them, and I definitely don't want him dscussing our sex life or my health problems with them. He says that if they ask how he is doing and he says he s worried about me, they will probably ask what's going on. I say he should reply that it is personal, and that SN (me) has asked that he not talk about it with anyone. I don't want them to know when I've been feeling unattractive, or having issues with orgasms, or our kids are having problems at school, or that my mother-in-law and I are fighting. He counters that these things affect him, and that since he will have a relationship with them, he should be able to talk wth them about his feelings about whtever it is, and that to do so will mean giving details. I say if pressed he can say that I am unhappy or not feeling well, and it bothers him, and change the subject. I tried to explain how people can use nformation like that against you. The office I worked in years ago was full of women like that. He says I am being ridiculous, that he would never let anything like that happen, that I should trust him more. It isn't him I have a problem trusting.

I feel this is one of those boundary things. Unless I know this person very well myself, I am not going to feel comfortable with them knowing such intimate thngs about me, and I don't want to know their private details either. And even then, there are many people I know very well that I would never share those details with. But still they are my details. I asked him how he would feel if he had erectin issues, and I had a boyfriend, and that I told this boyfriend all about it. He didn't have an answer and then we got interrupted by unexpected company.

I think that if he found just a play partner for his BDSM needs, I would be happier, but he feels he has to have the ability to have whatever kinds of relationships develop, that he wants more than just those BDSM experiences.

:(

I know my posts are long, but I am really in an awful place and have no one to talk to but him.
 
It isn't him I have a problem trusting.

I am sorry to say this, but it is him you have a trust problem with. Most of the things from your list of fears are directly related to trusting him or not. Every single one about valuing you enough when having another relationship is. About not risking your health. About disrespecting your boundaries. About him leaving. And so on. I have to say you should look into your fears (which are absolutely valuable by the way, don't think of them as minor or something) and look how many of them stem from not trusting him.

I think that if he found just a play partner for his BDSM needs, I would be happier, but he feels he has to have the ability to have whatever kinds of relationships develop, that he wants more than just those BDSM experiences.

I know that some do better without the intimate connection of feelings when the partner takes on a new, let's call it 'interest' outside of the initial relationship. I couldn't think of that as more positive, as I know that simple sex without emotions would never satisfy me. Is it that strange to not just want a 'fuck buddy'?

On the other hand I completely understand why you don't want your private things to be discussed outside of your relationship. As you said, he would be dating that person, not you. So he should respect your need for privacy, even if it is hard, and not talk about topics which are uncomfortable for you with third persons. Even if that third person is a partner of his.

You asked what is in this for you. Frankly: nothing, besides a happy partner. For some the knowledge that their partner can be who he/she is. They take pleasure out of his/her pleasure. The hobby comparison is not that far off, despite the risky part you are right about. But every possible hobby your husband taking on would consume money and time, not spend on you or the family. Of course sometimes some limits have to be set in regard to that, but fundamentally saying "No, never!" would seem really strange to me. Think about this situation, your husband taking on a hobby, requesting two nights per week for himself alone, working on something in the basement or garage, going out with friends to see some shows, whatever, would you be jealous of that time he spends away from home? Would you regard this time and investment as threatening towards your family life or marriage?

I know that you want to say that this is something completely different, but trust me, it is not completely. I don't know your husband, but just from the way you write here, it seems to me that you make most of your problems out of thin air. I know those list of fears. I know how they work, I was already called a champion worrier :) Go over your list of fears and look hard at them. Most of them should only work, if your husband starts being a whole different person I suppose. That was how my fears worked. As soon as you really take the other person into consideration, how he is, how he reacts normally (not this completely arbitrary 'what would be if ...' person): Are those fears still realistic? Do you really believe that another person could change your husband that much? This isn't a compliment in regard to him.

Lastly: Only you can decide if you want to do this for him and if you want to explore this path. You have no obligation to do this. But if you fundamentally say "No." and he fundamentally needs this, you will have to think about further steps. Because this would end in resentment.
 
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