GalaGirl: Conversations Already in Progress.

I remember feeling it when we had the kid. It is no longer just us. There we chose to tread -- into parenting. But it is no longer just us. Especially in those newborn days that were so rough -- ugh. I remember missing it being just us!
Yes, I've experienced this too! Sometimes, on the rougher parenting days when I get no time to myself, let alone with either of my Boys, I still feel it!

I love how your posts always make me think. This time my thoughts are mostly here:
We choose to Open -- so it's not any "betrayal" stuff to get through first.

You land right into

  • 4: Depression, Reflection, Loneliness.

And have to work on through the rest...

  • 5: Upward Turn
  • 6: Reconstruction and Working Through
  • 7: Acceptance & Hope

And it should be felt -- experience the change and note that it did indeed change. If you Open, you are no longer Closed in the way that you were across many layers of the math.

I find myself wondering how much of this process MC went through internally but did not express to me. He's an introvert and much more likely to process internally, as opposed to me who generally has to talk things to death with 3 or more people before I fully get through it.

I also wonder, though, if the effect was different for both of us because we did not go from "closed" to "open" in the most common sense. We were never fully closed, so while there were times where it was "just us" it was never by design, just circumstances. Nor are we fully "open" now. We are, I suppose, open to possibilities, but there would be a LOT of time taken and discussion before another sexual partner was added to MC's or my vertices in this relationship configuration. (TGIB's agreement is far more open, since he's 1) not responsible for raising our kids and 2) on his own in TX, while MC and I at least have each other here.)

Not that any of this is something you need to respond to! Just part of my external processing- was our Step 4 minimal/little bits here and there over time, and that's why I don't remember it? Or did we not go through it quite that way because our situation unfolded differently? I don't know, but interesting thoughts!
 
I find myself wondering how much of this process MC went through internally but did not express to me. He's an introvert and much more likely to process internally, as opposed to me who generally has to talk things to death with 3 or more people before I fully get through it.

I'm wondering myself if DH is processing. I cannot tell and I haven't asked. I have noted small changes in his vocab use when I thank him for things.

"You are great about remembering to ....(whatever it is.) Thanks! I appreciate that!"

"I try."​

And there's been a change in some of his touching me. Stroking my hair and resting his hand on my head like I am very precious to him. I'm enjoying that sort of attention, but I wonder what's brewing under there to motivate this?

Maybe DH is aware of this on the conscious level. Maybe he isn't and it's all happening underneath?

Right now I'm letting him feel whatever he's feeling and plan to check in later. I know I had to pass and repass some emotions myself so I imagine he could be doing same.

I'm not worried and not in any hurry. It's all part of the slow unfold -- the journey undertaken together. Since for me, the greatest pleasures lie in the unfolding, not the arrival, I like a long, slow, unfold. That would be starting with a new person. Stages of Change journeyed with this person don't have to take a pit stop first in Stages of Grief because... there's been no history yet with this person. There's nothing TO grieve.

But the long, slow unfold with DH? That's still ongoing. We've changed many times over the years and there's been stages to let of of and yes... grieve their passing. No longer being friends only, but FWB, then serioulsy dating, then engaged, then married, then parents, then... ?

Seeing him, experiencing him, loving him in another context -- it's always unfolding outwards and across. That's how Life is lived. Time moves it forward.
But HOW deep we choose to go as we move across time? That's up to us. WHERE we take it? That too is up to us. There will be places not visited. Nobody can have/do it all.

I wash brushing my teeth last night and he was talking to me about love theory and friends problems and figuring out how to support various polyshipping pals in their particular configurations. They are all so different in models.

Me: I can't do that "no primary/many secondaries model" thing at this age. It's like... well. I believe in consummate love.

DH: Well, so do I. I'm looking at it. (grinning)

Me: Flatterer. Thanks. I mean it though. I get the splitting up across several in that model -- but I already HAD that. At a time in my life when it was much easier to split across and it really did serve me better. But eventually I reached a point where spreading it out and across was no longer as useful or satisfying.

I wanted change and I wanted to reintegrate and pull it back together and then take each node out. I don't want parts in various places providing *a* whole forever. I wanted SEVERAL wholeness-es.

If I do it again, I do not want to tinkertoy consummate love across lovers. I want each ONE to be consummate. I want consummate love with you and then I want consummate love again with Another. I want TWO. Or at least the shot to arrive at two. At my age, why bother with anything less?

DH: (amused) That's what I've always loved about you. You want it to the max.

Me: Life is short, dude. It's not a dress rehearsal. If I'm going after what I want in my Life? I want to go after what I want in my Life when I want it how I want it. No more. No less.​

Other people get to choose what they want in their Lives. I get to choose mine. I like going deep -- or at least the potential to.

DH was teasing me recently about other lovers.

DH: Greedy girl. And how many would you have?

Me: Oh.... I'm good with one more. I'm greedy but not that greedy.​

I don't want to HAVE more. I want to BE more.

I don't want to have lots of lovers and be in relationship with lots of people... one ore two more intense love experiences in my life would be grand enough if I'm lucky enough to find those people.

I DO want to BE more deeply involved, more interconnected with, more authentic with the people I am in relationship with though... to me that's go deep and not necessarily wide.

Galagirl
 
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RELIEF AND CALM IN MY SOUL

I still think of the elders who died recently in the extended family. Not as strong, but periodically I find myself revisiting old memories.

Spent time with my Formerly Abused Now Divorcing Friend. She gotten through her mediation and it's in the final stages of split. She looks and sounds so much better then when all the crazy began a few months back. I'm so proud of her.

The changes in her are very noticeable. She's happier, more animated, less depressed, shocked, fearful.

We talked a bit about separation abuse -- if it might come back now that things are getting more final in the process but she's better prepared emotionally.

I'm relieved for her. Also for me. I am willing to support friends in times of need but to be able to lay this burden down still comes as a big relief to both of us. It's not OVER over just yet, but like 90% over. Thank goodness.
 
REVISITING HINGE BUZZ

Was talking to several younger friends. Two dismay me in their sex practices (body). Not enough sex education or planning or owning responsibility or something. Another one dismays me in their relationship practices (emotional). Selfish and not owning responsibility that way. Can't have it all your way in relationship.

It's like they seem to think anything ought to go just because they feel a pull? Is there some kind of scarcity I don't know about? Or is this all "kid in a candy store" and wanting to have it all at once?

Baffling.

So... yah. I've been busy in RL hanging out with friends, listening to their dating/open/poly/taxes/job/family/sex problems and joys.

DH and I are doing fine -- close, cuddly, talking a lot. On the poly end of things? Madly enjoying one of my crushes together. I go all twitterpated and he enjoys yanking my chain on it.

DH especially tickled me twice this week. Once when he told me he could share time with me with crush, was intrigued, trusted me, but wasn't exactly sure on the progression. Going from 2 to 3 people again. Then later he made a pointed note of saying "And notice how I say that. Yes, saying willing. Not when."

It made me laugh. We understand each other. It is the time for some things -- figuring out boundaries for instance. It is not the time for others -- jumping in all hot and heavy.

I'm enjoying the little crush buzz and the ping-pong effect though.

My "V" ex? Thinking a lot about him lately. Birthday soon. And remember the buzz from then too. That was intense buzz -- being the hinge person and spending time with one and enjoying it, and then wanting to tell the other one new things. Going off to do that and enjoying it and then wanting to tell the first one new things.

So enjoying it for what it is for the time being. Crush hinge buzz. Lightweight, but fun all the same.

I wonder if things could be, I wonder if this is the one I want to change my Life all around for. But I also am not a kid, and I'm also not unaware of the fact that coming at this time as it does? Even if it is a Right One, it might not be the Right Time. Close but no cigar.

On my internal dance card it reads like this...

  • WHO: Him, me, DH.
  • WHAT: polyshipping again. MFM.
  • WHEN: TBD.
  • WHERE: Local
  • HOW: TBD.
  • WHY: To enjoy it for what it is

I'm 4 out of 6. Hasn't been that high in yonks. G was a 5 out of 6. So I'm suffering, and in such a pleasant way. Part of my wants to know Crush's willingness right now and part of me doesn't want to know because I'm enjoying the not knowing.

Me: Ugh. He tempts me, hon. I haven't been seriously tempted like that in years -- not since G.

DH: I know. You are cute.

Me: Ugh! Waaaant!

DH: So chase.

Me: Ugh! Another tempter!

DH: Hee hee.

Another conversation going around the lake.

Me: Crush is fun. What if I decide I want to chase?

DH: Just chase it sane.

Me: What is "not sane" to you?

DH: Oh, plunging right in without thinking things out. Going in when things aren't healthy. Impulsive wacko. But that's not your style. So I'm not worried about it.

Me: No... I don't like that. I play to win. I don't play to crazy.

DH: I know. You like a slow burn.

Me: Mmm. Tasty.​

Not sure what (if anything) may come of it. But good times figuring it out. Whee! :D

Galagirl
 
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ON "PIE" for META-COMMUNICATING

I got a compliment the other day about the kid from two random adults -- how she's amazingly articulate and expresses herself so clearly. I was grateful for the feedback. We try hard to build up her communication skills.

Was also recently quizzing the kid on her school vocab list thing and when I asked her "What does 'author purpose' mean?" she goes "PIE!" I was perplexed until she continued "To persude, to inform, or to entertain. PIE! It is PIE!"

I was amused at the thought that bubbled up next in my head "Be nice to get more PIE!"

It reminded me of William Penn on conversation:

Rules of Conversation

  • Avoid Company where it is not profitable or necessary; and in those Occasions speak little, and last.
  • Silence is Wisdom, where Speaking is Folly; and always safe.
  • Some are so Foolish as to interrupt and anticipate those that speak, instead of hearing and thinking before they answer; which is uncivil as well as silly.
  • If thou thinkest twice, before thou speakest once, thou wilt speak twice the better for it.
  • Better say nothing than not to the Purpose. And to speak pertinently, consider both what is fit, and when it is fit to speak.
  • In all Debates, let Truth be thy Aim, not Victory, or an unjust Interest: And endeavor to gain, rather than to expose thy Antagonist.
  • Give no Advantage in Argument, nor lose any that is offered. This is a Benefit which arises from Temper.
  • Don’t use thy self to dispute against thine own Judgment, to shew Wit, lest it prepare thee to be too indifferent about what is Right: Nor against another Man, to vex him, or for mere Trial of Skill; since to inform, or to be informed, ought to be the End of all Conferences.
  • Men are too apt to be concerned for their Credit, more than for the Cause.

Also reminded me of 7 essential interpersonal skills.

Short excerpt from a response of mine on this thread.

If communicating leads to the same place as silence, what is left?

When staying silent and being communicative leads to the same space? I'd suggest going communicative. State willing to try. Then YOU at least are being present and accountable at the negotiation table. Not showing up at all stinks worse.

Showing up = being willing, intent of trying to connect.
Not showing up = not connecting at all, maybe distancing.

The other people have to attend the meeting and be present to for it to fly of course. But could not let it bomb because YOU were missing and not present. This matters to you? SHOW UP to the table. Keep going -- esp with the NVC skills learning.

If both are at the table? That's good. Then maybe the next baby step could be investigating your conflict resolution method? Perhaps experimenting with different ones until you get a method that serves you both better?

HOW you communicate things is as important and WHEN and WHAT you communicate.

I think it's hopeful that while struggling, both are still willing to keep trying and are still showing up to the table.

There's the missing thing at the table though.

The toggles are (show up/not show up) and (connect/not connect.) So the Punnet square ends up at

  1. show up and connect
  2. show up and do not connect
  3. don't show up and connect
  4. don't show up and don't connect


Again... given those possible choices? "Show up even if don't connect" is better to me than "don't show, don't connect!"

But knowing other options are in the square could help? That's the metacommunicate.

Maybe people aren't ready to connect in face time. Could visit the stepping stone #3 option -- connect by email, letters first to smooth the path before attempting a face time option?

Maybe it's just me. I like negotiating and giving people places to go and pointing out COULDS.

On the poly front the adage of "communicate, communicate, communicate" is good only so far. Great that you keep trying and show up to the table. Certainly nothing can be moved forward in collaborative mode when players are just not connecting.

But talking on and on and getting nowhere just hamster wheels. Goes round in circles. Sometimes have to take a step back to break out and move it to "metacommunicate" and examine the HOW.

How are you communicating? Does it serve? Or not? And if one of the basics of "metacommunicate" is to examine if the method employed for communication is serving the purpose? Well, PIE it then.

IS there PIE being served? Maybe that's a Shiny Thought starting place?

"My purpose is X. When I communicate to my partner, do I give my partner the right PIE? Am I persuading? Informing? Or Entertaining? Which vehicle is appropriate to the purpose at hand? "

One of my exes used to crack jokes from nervousness whenever we'd have to talk about something serious and it would piss me off. "Entertain pie" was SO not the right pie at that time. I wanted information pie from the conversation.

I would have preferred to get info pie of "I am not willing to disclose right now." That's honest info.

Jokes? No so much. Blah. That's side tracking, unclear, and can be taken as avoidy/not recognizing what is important to me at the moment. My need for information pie.

I have to think about this PIE thing some more.

"Rules of conversation" or "7 essential skills as guidelines" kinds of concepts is a lot for kid to digest and learn or me to even try to teach. Layers can come over time. One snippet here and there as teachable moment arises.

For now just PIE will do. So now that I know she understands that, I get to just ask her "Are you giving me PIE?" when she's not being clear to me.

Which is very cool.

Now I have to go try to PIE my friends -- esp those in Open or Poly situations and see how the PIE flies. Ha. :D

Galagirl
 
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NOTICING LITTLE THINGS

DH has stopped with that "I try" thing he was doing a few weeks back. I still don't know if he was digesting something and has come through it or what.

And then later he casually mentioned something like "I was thinking about it. Examining my feelings while out with kids (a playdate)... questioning how I'd feel with you out on a date. And I felt fine. I'd hope you were having a nice time."

The “I try” thing was a vague thing pinging my wife intuition but this one was just announced without my asking anything.

Another time it was me directly asking about how he'd feel with me having Another.

"Amused."

"Amused? Me being with someone else leaves you feeling amused?
Odd choice of vocabulary."

"Yes. Amused. Oh, I'm sure sooner or later some jealous maybe but when I stop to think about it? If my needs are being met, why feed the jealous? My needs are met. If my needs aren't met -- we'd talk. So I'll go with amused in general. You are cute all goofy."

"Great. I exist to amuse you." I joked.

"Yep. Come here and amuse me now."​

Once in a while he asks me if he's going to far when he's yanking my chain on my crushes. I told him I enjoy the banter so no. I'd tell him if he was going to far. Me? I'm the one that's amused he enjoys that so much.

I love that big shit eating grin of his.

I check in to make sure I don't take good natured teasing too far. He says he's fine.

So.... things are quiet, pleasant. We continue to talk, but not in any kind of a rush. We continue to process alone and together. Not in any kind of a rush.

It feels fun!

Had a lovely day to ourselves. Got kid to school and then jumped back into bed to frolic. Lots of chain yankin' there. Whee. :D

Then brunch and errands with a lot of conversation – school things, parenting things, relationship things (our marriage) and more relationship things (polyshipping and assessing a crush and why they fall short right now if it was a potential and not just a crush) and schedules this week and plans for the weekend. And did I want his tomato off his sandwich?

And this is what I love. Peaceful, playful. Normal, nothing to get all bent out of shape over. Just... living life.

Sometimes I think people make polyshipping to be a bigger deal than it is. It's just relationshipping.

Now determining if all players have could grow the skills to be ABLE TO polyship like it is not a big deal?

There's the crux of it.

Galagirl
 
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STRANGE

Strange mixture of feelings. Sad in some places for others in my life.

Happy in other places and where I am at in my own life.

Feeling quiet and thoughtful.

GG
 
I've just been catching up on any blogs I like to read, interesting developments for you I missed on reading about last month. I'm glad to see how much fun you have when your husband teases you :)
 
Thanks! It is fun. :)

It's a welcome part of my life where things are light hearted and free and wheee!

Helps balance out other parts of my life that aren't so free or whee right now.

We all have those things though to deal with in Life though. So overall -- I'm doing ok. Life as normal ups and downs. Wouldn't have it any another way. ;)

GG
 
BOOKMARKS: Jealousy and Time management.

Things here are still crazy. Don't seem like it will change for a while. :rolleyes:

In the midst of the busybusy, I wanted to jot down some things to think about and remember for later.

1) DH is great to talk to about jealousy.

I was telling him about a weird dream I had about an acquaintance kissing me. In the dream, Dream DH got stroppy about it. Dream Me asked him how was I supposed to know acquaintance would foist kissing on me? I didn't encourage it. I stopped it. And Dream Me asked Dream DH why he was going all stroppy when he wasn't going stroppy about Dream Crush kissing me before. Dream DH said it was because he was prepared for Dream Crush but not this.

That's more telling about my OWN ugh with "fear of the unknown weirdo" than actual DH jealousy.

But for the hell of it I told him about the dream and asked him about jealousy -- it was a great convo. We have to revisit that. But it was pretty funny when DH looked at my funny and said "Now why would Dream Me do THAT? That's not me."

2) Love is love. Time spent is something else. I wonder why some people don't think about time management as "budget." Because we're all on the same salary here -- 24 hrs in a day. Clock 8 hrs ish for work, 8 hours for sleep. The remaining 8 hours you spend on

  • travel to and from places
  • home tasks like cooking/cleaning up/bills/shopping
  • personal tasks like taking a shower/laundry/volunteering/hobbies
  • extra people/pet tasks (if you have them): tend to child, walk dog, deal with elders, etc.

THEN you have some free time. How much is that a day? There's your social wellness time. To spend for FUN (not chores/tasks) with the friends, family, and lovers.

What time you have free that you could SPEND. And WHEN because depending on work shifts, the block of "spendable time" may come whole or in pieces and at certain times of the day.

Everyone you could date? Comes with a time price tag -- some people need lots of time and care, some people less time and care.

That be fun to think about some more. Time management as budget. Unlike disposable income, it doesn't sit around to be spent later. It's being spent all the time. 24 hrs a day. It's WHERE you choose to spend it doing WHAT.

Galagirl
 
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ON GENDER RELATED JEALOUSY

It's a month later and things still feel kinda crazy here. And I still want breaks from thinking about it all. So here I am.

This is my response from this old thread talking about "gender related jealousy."

It's normal jealousy struggle. It happens. Both ways -- whether the gender of the other lover is the same as you or different. Because in the end I don't believe it is about the other lover's gender. I think it about your inner thoughts and beliefs.

The whole "If our hinge sweetie compares us, I'm not going to be able to compete" thing. Maybe you are ok with the female lovers because they have equipment you don't. They offer your lover a different sex experience and your thoughts run along the lines of "It's not even a competition there." But the male lover has "your" equipment. So you feel competition fears.

It works the other way too. Maybe you think you are a hot stud muffin and no other man can compete to your magical penis. But crap! Here come women lovers -- they have goods you don't! What if hinge sweetie runs off with one of them and you cannot even compete because you just don't have a vagina to compete with? Ahhhh!

See? Doesn't matter the gender. Whatever tape is playing in there -- it boils down to "I am afraid I cannot compete."

You state your worries/fears yourself -- things like what if is he's a better lover, has a bigger penis, etc.

So what? What if he is blond, has three dogs and a dragon, he drives a vacuum cleaner to work? ( I joke to keep it light and try to make you smile, I'm not making light of your feelings or minimizing them.)

It just doesn't matter what he has or does or is. What is causing your discomfort is not the trigger (him being another lover). It is your thinking and what you tell yourself inside your head that is causing you your upset.

"I am less than, I will fall short..." kinds of thoughts.

To feel better?

Ask your partner to reassure you that your hinge sweetie loves you for YOU and wouldn't break up with you without warning or without giving you a chance to work on whatever needs are not being met.

And ask yourself to learn to cut it out and play a different tape in your head.

"I AM good enough. Hinge loves me for ME and all I bring to the table."

Maybe these could help?

(Labriola) http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html
(Wagner) http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Try to BREATHE. Literally. Take deep breaths and relax your muscles if you feel stress/anxious/uptight. If you make yourself breathe and deliberately let go of any muscle tension, your muscles can give your brain feedback that there is actually no danger lurking. So there is no need to be chronically poised for "flight or fight response." Then maybe your brain can relax a bit in there.

BREATHE.

In a way, it's good that it's about the thoughts in your mind. Because you can always choose to change your mind!

You will be ok. You can do this work -- you can learn to overcome jealousy.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

Jealousy is such an interesting thing.

That particular Wagner article presents 4 kinds of jealousy: possessive, exclusion, competition, and fear.

I'm not particularly possessive in the sense described but I do get “fear of the unknown weirdo” and kinda “hurt him and I will kill you” feelings. I'm don't worry about exclusion or competition jealousy feelings.

I like to think that if I felt jealous, I'd be willing to feel vulnerable in the asking so I could go to DH and tell him “I feel jealous. I need help coping with that so I can put it down. Could you be willing to help me? Could you be willing to reassure me? Reaffirm that you love me?”

I know sometimes some people go off the other way. They try to make the OTHER person jealous on purpose. Because they want more attention, want to feel desirable, what to know they are loved, etc. And in doing so they risk hurting the other partner with jealousy or damaging trust between them. Because if you love someone, you don't engage in damaging behavior toward them.

Love doesn't have to be PROVEN. But it is nice to have it reaffirmed.

Either way it's the same solution. Just ask up front to get the need met rather than try to ignore it for fear for of being found "not able to compete" or try to go around the back door to get it met.

What's so hard about coming in from the front door and just asking for a need to be met?

I sometimes hear “But I don't want to seem needy....” as a reason for not just asking up front. To me merely having some needs doesn't mean “chronically needy.” We all have needs one time or another. It means you are human.

So I don't buy that. I don't think “I don't want to seem needy” is really the thing. I think more accurate expression of that could be “I am not willing to feel vulnerable. So I don't want to ask for reassurance and reaffirmation from the front and risk feeling vulnerable.”

I get that feeling vulnerable is a horrible, anxious, squirmy kind of feeling. I don't love it. But I love sticking my head in DH's armpit to tell him some horrible vulnerable thing, and have him accept it. And get to feel the wonderful love stuff that comes from full acceptance with/from a partner. That's what makes the horrible worth it.

To risk being loved, warts and all. To get to BE loved, warts and all.

Galagirl
 
COMFORTING

We're facing hard times. That's all I want to say about that right now. It doesn't matter what it is -- I just want to capture a feeling snapshot.

I was straddling DH's lap on the couch so I could hug him and he could hug me face to face. I had my head on his shoulder and I was feeling empty inside.

Sad, bad, ugh. That "hollow" sensation.

He was stroking my hair and back saying whatever it was he was saying. I have no idea. I wasn't listening. I was off in space feeling hollow. Thinking about how EXTRA lonely it is to be so lonely when sitting in an intimate way on someone else.

I don't go around sitting on everyone's lap.

Then I decided "Wait. I'm not being present in the moment. I am not here. I am off in space. I'm the one keeping me in lonely land with my thinking behavior. DH is talking to me and I'm not present. He's trying to connect and what am I doing? I'm off in space."

We had been talking about discipline over dinner. The discipline it takes to learn something new, take lessons, not let thoughts run amok. Self discipline of various kinds.

And I was sitting there letting my thoughts run amok and not be present in the moment. Lacking in thought discipline right then.

So I wanted to bring it back and I whispered in his ear, "Tell me you love me."

I know respond to voice tether and touch tether. So I was asking him to talk to me and touch me.

"I love you."

Then I put my head on his other shoulder. "Now tell me that you love me in this ear."

"I love you in this ear."

I grinned into his neck, because he likes being goofy like that. And I like knowing him so well I know he's going to do that.

Then I went back to rest my head on the first shoulder.

"Ok, now tell me you love me in this other ear."

"I love you in this other ear."

"Now this one again."

"I love you."

"Again over here." I changed sides again.

"I love you, I love you, I love you!" he proclaims, making me laugh. Laughter is a good thing -- releases all kinds of happy brain chemistry.

"Yay. Now take me to bed and tell me you love me all over my body."

He laughed, like I knew he would. Both of us feeling blah and both of us laughing any way.

He kept stroking my hair and then after a while I felt curiously half-hallow. Something was seeping. And it felt better.

And I know this from kink -- the seeping feeling from my head of brain cocktail hormones. When it's the bad kind it feels like hot prickle needles to me. When it is good it feels like ocean wave whoosh! I really don't have the vocabulary to describe the sensation I was having. It was neither prickly nor whooshy. I was having a new seepage thing.

I sat in his lap for a long time being hugged, petted, and whispered comforting things to trying to monitor this new seepage and what that felt like now that I was changing my thinks to something else. With emotional flooding, I know it takes at least 20 minutes to get past the ugh. So I was waiting it out to see what this new seepage thing could become.

Feelings ensue after behavior. Thinking is a behavior. I think therefore I feel.

And instead of thinking about "lonely and hollow" I started thinking about how long I've been with this man, my husband.

And how I know all his goofball jokes like telling me "I love you in this other ear."

Or the taste of his earlobe. And MY GOD did he have garlic breathe from dinner.

And how easy it is to BE when it is easy. And how hard it is to BE when it is hard. And how every other time it has been hard before we managed to BE. So really? This time? When it is hard again?

So what?

We've been here before. We will be here again one day. We're here now. Enduring a hard time.

We've gotten past it before. Some day in the future -- we will have gotten past it again.

And in the Hang Time in between? That is neither here nor there? Just waiting it out?

It's enough to BE then. Be present. Waiting it out. Feel whatever it is and let it go. Let it ride til it's ridden out.

And there is a comfort to be had there, when you endure and wait things out with a long term partner. Even without a partner, there's a comfort to be had there. To be able to have disciplined thoughts, change the direction your mind is going in and make space to let new feelings ensue.

Open to receive whatever might come next.

Galagirl
 
QUIET

Things have been quiet. DH and I are good. Close, connected. I flirt. He laughs. Parenting is ok.

Time management is still hard though and we still deal with other kinds problems with eldercare. Sigh.

Galagirl
 
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BOOKMARK: ON CONTINUED COMMITMENT

This is an excerpt from this thread.

We did make a written agreement that if any of our friends or partners in the future attack either of one of personally, without anything that looks like a legitimate cause, we will cut them off. But it bothers me that we even had to write that down, I guess. It seems like a committed couple shouldn't have to do that?

Not every committed couple comes with the skills "right out of the box." Sometimes part of that commitment is to sit down to assess and intentionally grow the skills that need growing so the couple can continue in their commitment.

Could consider letting go of "should" language and go with "could" so you can not be bothered.

"A committed couple could write things down as a learning tool when growing discernment skills."​

Hang in there with it. I'm glad you guys are trying and couples therapy is helping in the process.

GL!
Galagirl

Real life has me super busy. I don't have the time I want for journaling.

But I wanted to remember that snippet.

Galagirl
 
Thank you, GalaGirl, for working through your thoughts and feelings step by step where other people can see them.

I'm trying, belatedly, to learn emotional management, and I find it helpful to see you go through the process of introspecting, holding an internal board meeting, making your reactions slow and intentional.

I would like to be better at doing that, too.
 
ON DISCERNMENT AND INNER CONFLICT RESOLUTION

Man, I wish I had more time to write. Stuff just keeps happening lately.

But I wanted to remember this thought too. I came to revisit something about my spouse I hadn't thought of in a while on the forest level (ex: last 5 years) but keep revisiting lately on the tree level (last 2 mos) as we meet some life challenges that are going down right now in quick succession.

I don't love conflict, but if I have to be doing conflict resolution? I'm a fan of doing it with him. My fav person to have conflict resolution with -- because he's so sane about it.

Whether he and I are at odds. Or I'm at odds with myself and need a sounding board.

DH gets that there are times for discernment and sometimes it is hard to tell where the thing (whatever it is) ranks.

  • IMPORTANT AND URGENT at this time
  • IMPORTANT but not urgent at this time
  • Not important, but URGENT at this time.
  • Not important and not urgent at this time.

Something else he gets that I'm trying to tell the kid lately:

The "definites" are easy to discern.

  • A definite "yes" is a (YES! Joyous, eager definite yes! WOOOOHOOO!) kind of thing.
  • A definite "no" is a (NO WAY, JOSE! NOT IF HELL FREEZES NO!) kind of thing.

What do you do when it isn't easy to discern?

Could decide make it easy on self and make a standard to measure by.

Me? My standard?

I go with all of these:
  • A less than joyous, eager, definite yes.
  • A "meh" yes -- like could take it or leave it.
  • I dunno.
  • An uncertain no. Tempted... though.

.... are NOT eager or joyous yes.

There. Done. Then when I'm not sure I can check against that.

I could vote "no confidence" and just decide to call it a "NO" and just proceed as if it were a definite no. Made the call.

So I can get on with life and deciding things. Not be stuck going around in circles. Feel some relief. Or disappointment. Or a mixture -- but I can get on with the show now. Woot. Firm of purpose. Because this I choose.

I was talking to the kid this morning.



Me: Well, how do you want to take it?

Kid: I dunno. I'm not sure.

Me: Kid, let me teach you something about discernment. Joyful YES like --- tada!!!!! That is a yes. Anything less than that is not a joyful yes.

Kid: Ok.

Me: Repeat it back so I know you got it.

Kid: Anything less than joyful yes is NOT a joyful yes.

Me: So when I ask you "Are you going to be ok, or do we need to go back to the house to get it?" on the way to school what do you tell me? Because only you know yourself.

Kid: I dunno. I'm not sure... and that's not joyful yes?

Me: Yup. So since it is not joyful yes that you can live without your thing, we best go back to get it. That could make us tardy, and that the price of admission. You prepared to own that?

Kid: Yup. I can own it.

Me: Alright, back we go, we accept we could be tardy and we just decide to live with it then as the price of admission. We are firm of purpose now and not wibbling about making it bigger than it needs to be. A decision was made. On with the show.

Kid: Yup. And hey, we get another shot tomorrow at getting out of here with no tardy. If we get a tardy today.

Me: Right. Not the end of the world. We can handle this.


She probably thinks we're talking about only tardy marks at school.

I'm talking about that. And I'm also talking about giving child the skills of discernment so she can resolve INNER conflict for herself.

Clear doubts away so you can become firm of purpose and get on with whatever it is.

If you put off making a call so you can make a decisions you lose opportunities.

Including the opportunity to lead a less stressy life.

Galagirl
 
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MORE ON DISCERMENT AND INNER CONFLICT (AND BREAKING UP)

Been a while. My personal life had a lot going on so I wasn't journaling. But funny how Life is -- because despite the long break? I'm still on the same topic -- "how to discern the hard things and be decisive."

This is an excerpt from a recent thread about a break up thing.

Galagirl said:
I think once you DO decide, and can resolve yourself to it you might start to feel better because then wheels aren't churning any more. The main decision was MADE. That part of it is DONE. The smaller decisions under that main heading usually fall into place easier once one knows what the headliner IS. At least, that's been my experience.

Still applies in Rose's case even though hers is not an NRE thing.

I think decisiveness is a vital character trait to grow for life in general, not just polyshipping. We choose all day long -- minor stuff like what to wear today or eat for breakfast. To bigger choices. Can't be lollygagging. Have to decide.

I was talking to my friend Rose over the weekend who is struggling right now because she's finding she's outgrown a friendship because she cannot respect choices the person is making and she doesn't want to be around for the potential fall out. It was complicated by the fact that the person is not just her (friend) but they are (good exes & friends).

Her version is much more detailed, but that's the summary as I see it.

Rose is a private person and I don't ask her for more than she cares to share. So I'm a little fuzzy on some of the dating history. I lose track of boyfriends poly Rose had before I knew her. I knew she dated X, Y, Z but I lose track of who was overlapping when.

I observed Rose struggle with articulating her feelings and her current problem.

  • I tried to be an active listener.
  • Validate that it's OK to feel ugh when contemplating this.
  • Not rush her, just to fill silence. Wait for her to put it in her own words.
  • Watch her body language for clues. Same for tone of voice.
  • Shared with her how I navigated my recent thing but was clear I offered it as one possible way to go. Not that SHE has to do it the same.
  • I wanted to make space for the fact that just as two people could be attracted to different types? Or want different types of relationships? They will also probably have different break up styles.
  • I'm not Rose. Rose has to decide how Rose wants to handle this.

I had to break up with my friend Leaf recently. He was more than friend – at one point wanted us to be lovers. I considered it but I didn't think it was the best time for that. Then we never brought it up again. But that's still not just “regular friend” is it?

Leaf is making some choices and continues to make some choices I cannot respect. I don't want to be around for more drama. Being around Leaf right now is damaging to ME. It wasn't a “hard break up.” I'll still send holiday and birthday cards in service to the nostalgia and good memories we shared. I'll keep hoping Leaf choose to turn it around and straightens out. Holiday cards might keep up or might putter out over the years. Or maybe we rekindle and start a new friendship for a new chapter in our lives. Time will tell if this is a “soft break up” or what. The point is, it left me thinking about break ups and how to manage them well.

It matters to talk about. Polyshipping or otherwise -- having clearly articulated expectations help. I'm glad DH and I have our own potential break up agreements mapped out. One is responsible for their own emergency preparedness!

I pretty much know when it is done. I can evaluate variables and be decisive and make hard choices. I know the difference between giving it a little time to see if new data emerges and merely calling it that to disguise procrastination.

Better to stop it approaching my limit of tolerance or AT my limit of tolerance. But to let it run on BEYOND limit of tolerance? That's not me respecting my own limits and tending to my own needs.

Once I decide it is a break up? I want to break up and set the new boundaries and move on to the healing place. Take action and not lollygag there. I'm not a fan of dragging things out because of indecision or lack of resolve. I like it done – relatively fast, firm, and clear. Then everyone can move on to healing. That's a better place to linger at.

I get that changes are hard and sometimes scary. It's not like I am not compassionate about the grief process surrounding endings, changes, etc. But sometimes bowing out IS what is needed to catalyst change because CHANGE is what is needed.

  • To stay on same from a sentimental response because we're fond of past?
  • To stay on same from an enabling response because we're scared to deal with future?

That isn't really approaching it from a present day perspective to me. If present day behavior is not meeting present day needs, the thing has to be addressed rather than avoided.

  • Yes, Leaf and I had good times in the past.
  • Yes, I am worried that our relationship could go from “dialing it down to give you space to sort your stuff” to completely dying out in future.

But what serves me now in present? I cannot control what Leaf chooses to do. I can only control ME. What do I need in the present day?

  • To be free of Leaf drama
  • To call Leaf into account for his bad behaviors towards me
  • To restate boundaries and expect Leaf to respect them.
  • GIVE him the space to sort himself out and expect him to deal with himself or not. He's in charge of him, not me.

Either he concludes that he can respect my boundaries or not. If not, I can't be friends with someone who won't respect me or my boundaries.
Either he concludes that he will stop sef destructive behavior or not. If not? I want no part of that self destructive stuff. I like me! I don't want to destruct or observe destruction! It's a two-fer -- BOTH toggles have to be on for the system to reboot. Otherwise let's leave in it "sleep mode." Not totally powered off, but not active either.

Rose is struggling with similar. Yes, they have good memories together as (a couple.) Yes, they have good memories together as (good exes & friends.) But right now he's making some poor choices and she doesn't want to be in the line of fire. It's healthy for her to want to remove herself from the line of fire. And it is OK for her to say so, restate her boundaries and expect them to be respected. It is ok for her not to be around for the mess clean up should his poor choices lead to wacko. She's not obligated to clean them up.

We are free to choose. We are not free from the consequences of our choices.

I told Rose if she wants me to air her out and take her to dinner or if she needs to talk some more to give me a call. Sigh.

Mostly I listened. I didn't want to be telling her what to do or overload her with suggestions. She was kind of crying, and that isn't "best mental processing time" to me. That is "busy processing emotions right now" to me.

But if she asks me or it comes up again I'm going to tell her that anything LESS than "joyous yes" could be counted as "no." If dealing with him is less than "joyous yes" right now? Just choose not to. As a discernment tool it really cuts through the crap of internal conflict! Then Rose could call it "main decision made" and give herself permission to move on toward healing. Move it forward with the smaller decisions under the main headline. Not keep it in the stuck.

Let the relationship settle down / transform naturally on its own to whatever it wants to be next. Even a relationship in "sleep mode" or "totally powered off." Learn to be ok with this.

Galagirl
 
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Just wanted to say hi :) I've been reading your blog here and it's full of golden nuggets :)

I also caught myself thinking if someone was a muppet or a jedi :D You have a catchy way of putting things in words. I like it :)
 
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