Greetings from TN

The session was OK. I think hearing me tell the counsellor a couple of times I was ready to end the experiment because of the trouble it is costing us really shocked W. She ended up promising to make more of an effort to start meeting my needs. She still tends to go on and on about how I claim I'm giving so much, but she thinks I'm giving only so I can "get" in return. I counter, as always, with the fact that I'm not going to continue too much longer without having my needs met, and that everyone in any relationship is there because it meets some needs, else what is the point?

In any event, I have a date tonight with a girl I like a lot, and am meeting up with another woman Friday night for a more in-depth date, so those things are getting me out of my funk a little.
 
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It always struck me funny how things I said in counceling came as a shock to my husband. These items were NOT new and had been said a dozen time previously to his face. It's a real double edge sword, on the one hand it's a good thing when things change for the better, but on the other, it hurts to know he was only willing to pay attention when he was in danger of having an outsider think he was a selfish bastard. In the end, the good out weighed the negative and sometimes we all need an outsider to slap us upside the head and call us on our shit.
 
it hurts to know he was only willing to pay attention when he was in danger of having an outsider think he was a selfish bastard.

My ex-husband continually refused to go to counseling, and, when we were separated, thanked me for not bitching about him to my friends. It's sad to see that there are people who care more about how they're perceived by others, rather than caring about the state of their relationships with those they love (or purport to love). The good thing is that your husband and TN's wife agreed to counseling in the first place, and opened themselves up to hearing what a third party thinks. It's a big step.

TN, I'm glad your wife finally heard you, regardless of the circumstances. I hope things start improving.
 
Re (from learninginTN, Post #102):
"She still tends to go on and on about how I claim I'm giving so much, but she thinks I'm giving only so I can 'get' in return."

Couldn't the same accusation be directed at her? Not that it should be; a healthy relationship is a cooperative effort, not a competition. There's a difference between, "I'm gonna get as much as I can get," and, "There's just certain minimums that I need."

I hope she keeps her promise to do better, and I hope the dates you're going on are helping a little.
 
I hope she does, too. The dating is certainly making me feel much better, though, and certainly is boosting my morale. Last night's date was so refreshing and fun. We sat and talked about my unique lifestyle, and she said she had been researching it, and even talked about a recent "Rikki Lake" show about polyamory. It was so wonderful seeing someone on the other side of the table laughing and smiling. Plus she showed a little cleavage.

Here's a text conversation W and I had after my date:

ME: Damn, that was fun.
W: What was?
ME: The date.
W: Why?
ME: I think it's because she's always laughing and smiling.
W: That's because she doesn't live with you and the girls.
ME: I'm sorry, I didn't mean that to come across as a dig at you.

<silence>
 
Oh, and here's another lovely conversation we had by phone. W's guy is a chiropractor, and she's been after me to let him adjust our girls. Now, on a professional level, I'm not opposed to this. I know he's competent, and it may do them some good, although I'm also not totally sold on the benefits of this stuff. In any event, it would be the first time the girls have met him, and I insist on being there for that. I want to watch how he interacts with the girls, and interacts with W while the girls are there, etc.

Now, my schedule is tight, and I told her if I get enough advance notice I can arrange to get out of work early to accompany them. She wants to go ahead and do it sooner, and even wants to go without me, which I am adamantly against. She keeps after me on this, again trying to talk me out of my feelings on this issue. Finally she just said she's considering "doing it anyway".

If she actually does this, then it is definitely going to be a deal breaker for me, and I'm going to have a long talk with her guy and end the polyamory.
 
Finally she just said she's considering "doing it anyway".

If she actually does this, then it is definitely going to be a deal breaker for me, and I'm going to have a long talk with her guy and end the polyamory.

Oh FUCK NO!!!!!

Frankly this is downright scarey/creepy behavior. If I were you, I would call the guy (and your wife) right now and tell him that if he so much as touches your kids you will call the police. Why is she so all hell bent on having her guy get his hand on her kids. This is not a doctor looking at an injury, she's pushing to have him touch your children in an intimate personal way, just because.
 
I'm all for chiropractic for children, but there is no way in hell that I would want that to be the first meeting, IMO that is something that should be done after there's not a stressful dynamic going on, kids sense stress and their bodies wont be receptive to being adjusted and they could end up reacting badly to it (most likely scenario muscle spasms).

AKA Maybe a 4th or 5th interaction with him I'd see that would be fine..AFTER you and your wife get your shit figured out. As far as I've ever seen, even if one partner thinks a metamour is OK, if the hinge is acting in a crappy way, the situation cannot end positively unless they start being a good partner to - in this case - YOU again.

edit: You should ask him not to adjust them (without your presence, or at all, if that's what you want), if he is ethical at all he will not adjust them without your consent. I don't know the legalities in your state about adjusting without both parents permission, but considering he is dating your wife he'd be really stupid to do it if you didn't want him to, as opposed to if you and she were divorced, where it would likely be more permissible to do it with only one parents consent.

Anne, DC
 
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What about medical relevance??? Aren't they really young ..?? 6,7,8


Outside of giving this guy something to do ...giving a free service ...what value is this going to have.???? Seems nuts ...really nuts ...she doesnt like being around them why would she want to drag them off to have something like this done ?
 
You are the dad - I have to agree with AnneintheRain: you are now entering medical territory and you MUST let him know (directly) that you do not consent. You cannot (in her own words) rely on your wife to do so.

Ugh... So sorry this is happening. :(
 
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What about medical relevance??? Aren't they really young ..?? 6,7,8


Outside of giving this guy something to do ...giving a free service ...what value is this going to have.???? Seems nuts ...really nuts ...she doesnt like being around them why would she want to drag them off to have something like this done ?

They just turned 5. I have no conviction at all about the benefits of chiropracty, except the knowledge that there's still a lot of debate about such. I have vague memories of being adjusted when I was young, and I have no idea why (my mother is gone and my dad doesn't remember). I haven't had any adjustments since. And I'm not sick a lot, or burdened with any kinds of back or joint pain.

He has convinced her they'll have fewer ear infections if he adjusts them. I have no idea why. She says all the time she wants to introduce him to our children, but I have been resistant to it, and have insisted on being there any time he's around them. And I will not change my stance on that until we're much further along with this relationship, and my physical and emotional needs are being met.
 
[scratching head] 5-year-olds need a chiropractic adjustment to prevent ear infections? That's one of the strangest things I've ever heard. But, I'm not an expert.

I don't blame you for sticking to your guns on this one.
 
[scratching head] 5-year-olds need a chiropractic adjustment to prevent ear infections? That's one of the strangest things I've ever heard. But, I'm not an expert.

I don't blame you for sticking to your guns on this one.

If you look at the ACA website there is a lot of information about it. But those studies are not well supported, according to the AMA. So, in other words, fans of chiropracty are likely to believe in it, while those who are not are not likely to be swayed.

I don't think it will harm them, even if there are no real benefits. The big thing with me is him being around them and touching them without me being there.
 
The big thing with me is him being around them and touching them without me being there.

Thinking about this more, and putting myself in your shoes, another reason I'd have difficulty with this is that, as a doctor (or a Chiro), the line between doctor/patient and mom's BF/authority figure are now blurred. It would make me much more comfortable to keep those lines clear and separate. If they end up having difficulty with mom's BF, it shouldn't be made worse by the fact that he is their chiro.

If she wants the kids to meet him, and you are on-board, would a social setting (one where the kids can choose to keep their distance, if they prefer) be a better compromise? If so, maybe you could offer this instead and give her another option that isn't "I'm going to do it anyway"?
 
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If you look at the ACA website there is a lot of information about it. But those studies are not well supported, according to the AMA. So, in other words, fans of chiropracty are likely to believe in it, while those who are not are not likely to be swayed.

I don't think it will harm them, even if there are no real benefits. The big thing with me is him being around them and touching them without me being there.

Having never been to a chiro, but I imagine it can work similar to the effects of a massage. Every time I get a "good" massage, I can feel the pressure change in my ears and other sinuses areas.

Frankly that's not the issue. Is she pushing because he is pushing or has her brain just shut off in all her sexual excitement? I have a friend who does the most awesome massages, but I wouldn't even dream of having her touch my kids when they don't know each other. It's one thing to see someone on a professional level in their office, it's completely different when the same person is a personal friend, relative or lover.

It's time to talk to both of them, conference call if necessary, and tell him directly that you don't want him touching your girls until you are comfortable with how you see everyone interact.

If it's all about the "adjusting" then a good local pediatric chiro should work. If they resist this idea, then be seriously worried.
 
Yes, chiropractic adjustments can help stop ear infections in kids, misalignments of the vertebra can tug muscles enough to tilt the angle of the ear canal and contribute to chronic ear infections. That's about the only time I go out of my way to suggest somebody who isn't really familiar with chiropractic look into it, as that causes so much pain for the kids and so many sick days for the family.

But anyway...it's just a bad idea with the dynamic that is occurring right now. I can't recall the last time, if ever, you mentioned her gracefully realizing that your needs were important too and acting as if they were?
 
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Frankly that's not the issue. Is she pushing because he is pushing or has her brain just shut off in all her sexual excitement?

A lot of her brain has shut off due to the NRE (and bipolar issues). Maybe Narcissistic Personality Disorder (this has not been formally diagnosed. I just see the signs). The parts of the brain dealing with common sense and basic human dignity and civility, for instance.
 
Re (from learninginTN, Post #106):
"ME: Damn, that was fun.
W: What was?
ME: The date.
W: Why?
ME: I think it's because she's always laughing and smiling.
W: That's because she doesn't live with you and the girls."

Just thought I'd belatedly comment about that and say, that was a cold thing of W to say. I think I know what she means, dating is funner than day-to-day living, but that was an unkind way of her to phrase it. Mean to both you and the girls. One example, perhaps, of her being disabled in the areas of common sense and basic human dignity and civility.

It also may be a clue that she is really, really unhappy with the life she has at home. I guess she must be getting something out of it, or she'd be suing for divorce even as we speak (and would not care for custody of the kids). But she is deeply unhappy at home -- not laughing or smiling, I guess we could put it that way.

As far as the chiropractic thing goes, I guess I can see the connection between that and the sinuses. I had just never heard of it before. So, that part's fine, it's more the "mixing of adult friend/authority figure with doctor roles" that raises a yellow flag.

I hope that W will improve, but you have to consider the possibility that she may be like this to some degree from now on. Can I ask, was she always like this? Did it start when she started seeing her boyfriend?
 
Re (from learninginTN, Post #106):
Can I ask, was she always like this? Did it start when she started seeing her boyfriend?

The first 10 years of our marriage she seemed fine. When the girls were born, she was hit with a really bad depression, and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Started taking Zoloft, which seemed to help. But eventually she went off the drug, and her behavior towards me starting taking a nosedive: criticism, yelling, inpatience, and just a general mean-spiritness about her.

After the affair she started taking Zoloft again, and again improved her behavior. When we started swinging, she was off the meds again, and starting to treat me badly. But it's only been since she's been seeing her current guy that she has refused having sex with me, and she only started saying the D word since she started being serious with him (about three months ago).
 
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