Newbies and Veterans.

redpepper

Active member
I made a new friend this week that started a conversation with me about being a veteran to poly. It was about a symposium that he was on whereby the panel talked about Newbies expectations of poly Veterans.... I shall quote, "newbie's tendency to assume the poly veteran is going to be confident and comfortable when the newbie goes out to play with a new lover." He suggested that us veterans are leaders in the community also and I wondered about that statement as it seems to be out there in my poly community where I am.

two fold question....
1. Is there a tendency towards Newbies thinking that veterans should be more capable of over coming some of the major poly issues such as jealousy... etc.?
and
2. How do you feel about the word "leader" as far as veterans in the poly community go?
 
1 - no I don't think so. I expect some people in general will be better at handling jealousy etc. Being a veteran may mean you have more experience in dealing with jealousy, but that doesn't always mean much. Its almost akin to speaking with someone married 4 times about being married. Will they be better at it then the unmarried couple? :)

2 - hmmmmm...how bout mentors?...the idea of "leaders" brings about an exec level role that may grind peoples gears the wrong way. Just a thought :)
 
the idea of "leaders" brings about an exec level role that may grind peoples gears the wrong way. Just a thought :)

I have the same response..perhaps because I have been in the military for 20 years. It's not so bad when people consider others leaders through their actions, but when someone refers to themselves as a leader I just want to give them the big "fuck you".
 
SOME people think that if you are "naturally poly" or a "veteran poly" that it should be easier for you. I think it's a crock of shit.

I told Maca yesterday that it's not EASIER emotionally, it's EASIER to make yourself do what you have to do if you are DISCIPLINED in your training of yourself.

Like running-the RUNNING itself may or may not be EASIER after 6 months of doing it daily.
BUT making yourself get out of bed and do it is easier-because you have gained discipline in your behavior. You may still feel like "FUCK THIS I DON'T WANT TO RUN RIGHT NOW" but you make yourself get up and do it-the MAKING yourself part is easier after you've been disciplined in doing so for some time.

The same is true for me in DEALING with my feelings of jealousy etc. I still FEEL them just as intensely-but I find it easier to deal with them in the way I have outlined as appropriate-because I've been disciplined in making myself do so for years......

I have the same response..perhaps because I have been in the military for 20 years. It's not so bad when people consider others leaders through their actions, but when someone refers to themselves as a leader I just want to give them the big "fuck you".

YES! I concur.
And personally I'd rather share my experiences "in case some pertain to you" than tell you what to do because I am experienced and therefore "I know"....

Sure I know what worked FOR ME-but that doesn't mean it will work for anyone else! :eek:
 
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1. Is there a tendency towards Newbies thinking that veterans should be more capable of over coming some of the major poly issues such as jealousy... etc.?
and
?


I do think that people with more experience will have a more "eyes wide open" approach. Skills will be learned and pitfalls considered before they become issues, not all the time of course. I would take a look at the development of your and Derby's relationship as an example....a very positive example :)

I think you have both been extremely mature and clear headed which I personnaly feel is creating a great foundation to explore further.
 
I do think that people with more experience will have a more "eyes wide open" approach. Skills will be learned and pitfalls considered before they become issues, not all the time of course. I would take a look at the development of your and Derby's relationship as an example....a very positive example :)

I think you have both been extremely mature and clear headed which I personnaly feel is creating a great foundation to explore further.

Did I just earn veteran stripes? :D So much for mature LOL.

But I feel the same way about people calling themselves leaders. I think it's something that has to be earned and recognized by others. And just because something has worked for you (the leader) doesn't mean that it's going to work the same way for anyone else.

I do think that newbies do expect a more rational approach from those who have been in pervious poly relationships. For the most part they probably aren't wrong to expect it. It's like rasing kids, with the first one every stage is new and you always feel a bit lost. With any children after the first you have an idea of what's going to come next. It might not be any easier but at least you have some tools to try out.

-Derby
 
my friend suggested "experienced model" when referring to veteran poly folk... I like this term better I think. Experience doesn't mean "all knowing."

It's when people take on the roll of leader of a community without realizing that community expands far beyond their realm that has me concerned. I read on line and watch what happens and see holistically how it can be narrow minded and dangerous to assume one is a leader or in some kind of control. As it is with anything in life... When I am thinking I have my ducks in a row, chances are that is when my ducks are not in a row and I have forgotten something valid and important.

Not that I don't enjoy peoples thoughts and organization of events etc. I have organized my own events, like the one that I am organizing this summer with a friend of mine to go camping. I struggle with being looked to in organizing and being put higher up on some weird poly pedestal for doing so. I am just someone who likes to organize and hopes people like to come to what I organize.

I used to organize a monthly play date for my boy when I finished my maternity leave as I wanted to stay in touch with the mums I met. I enjoyed it and it served a purpose. I don't want to fall into the same rut of being looked to for that kind of thing as I was then and got burnt out. I see that happening with everything I join and for some reason people like to make leaders out of organizers. That is simply my roll in a group. Nothing more nothing less. I attach no control, even though I seem to be handed it on a platter. It seems that some people like to attach control to leadership rolls and that makes me feel nervous and uncomfortable. Especially when that is directed towards me... unfortunately I seem to be handed this task of separating myself from that often. Especially at work. I like to be where the people are, not in some managerial position that holds expectations. The only time I like control is when I am in my Mistress role ;)

I guess this is where I also struggle because I have experiences with poly as an "experienced model" that others don't and that also puts me in a position of becoming something I don't want....

I am talking about this and have actually come to a place I think that I am not looked on that way. I think it has come with a price though.... as I don't feel like I am now part of my community here as much as I did. All my own doing, but I am just now finding the balance between belonging and not allowing myself to fall into doing more than I am willing. Always a balance always something to work on...
 
I used to organize a monthly play date for my boy when I finished my maternity leave as I wanted to stay in touch with the mums I met. I enjoyed it and it served a purpose. I don't want to fall into the same rut of being looked to for that kind of thing as I was then and got burnt out. I see that happening with everything I join and for some reason people like to make leaders out of organizers. That is simply my roll in a group. Nothing more nothing less. I attach no control, even though I seem to be handed it on a platter. It seems that some people like to attach control to leadership rolls and that makes me feel nervous and uncomfortable. Especially when that is directed towards me... unfortunately I seem to be handed this task of separating myself from that often. Especially at work. I like to be where the people are, not in some managerial position that holds expectations. The only time I like control is when I am in my Mistress role ;)


Dam I was going to say it sounds like you need a DOM:eek: But you killed that response ;)


I can tell you that experience does NOT make dealing with relationship and personnal issues EASIER but as my Beautiful wifey said practice will make it easier to control yourself from doing stupid shit.

As for "leader" Im a control freak therefore I dont give people leadership status easy or often, but if they "EARN IT" then Ill give it. Time in a situation does not make you a leader. I like the " experienced model " term though.


Peace and Love
Maca
 
I'm the new friend

I'm the new friend redpepper referred to, who did the discussion panel on this topic at the Sharma Center in Seattle about a year ago. Hi everybody.
Thank you, redpepper, for calling me over here.
The term I suggested instead of "leader" was "Experience Model," rather than "Experienced Model," which to me sounds too much like a reference to wear and tear than to purpose. My piece of sod PT Cruiser is an experienced model. lol.
My point was that your experiences may serve as a model for ones of my own that I may wish to give shape to. Everyone may serve equally in this respect, regardless of poly tenure.
 
1. Is there a tendency towards Newbies thinking that veterans should be more capable of over coming some of the major poly issues such as jealousy... etc.?

Hmmm, guess this is a question the "newbies" would have to answer ?
But I think one would naturally assume that someone who has experienced something prior would have learned something from the experience and therefore be in a better position to deal with it in the future. But of course that's not ALWAYS the case - is it ? Some people are slow learners :)

2. How do you feel about the word "leader" as far as veterans in the poly community go?

Depends on the definition of the term.
Leader - as in one who goes out front - goes before......
So that usage is self defining. You've either been here before or you haven't.

OR

Leader - as in one who has both the experience and the wisdom to know how/when to pass those lessons on down in an effort to help those who come behind.

"Leaders" in this context are as rare as unicorns in most walks of life (in my experience anyway). But they are a jewel when you discover one !

GS
 
being a newbie that is involved with someone who has vastly more experience than i by comparison i definitely have made that assumption that she shouldn't have nearly as much trouble dealing with the issues that i had to. but i was COMPLETLY wrong. She has also said that she never used to feel these issues b4 she started trying to be open with me, so maybe she is more of a noob than she realizes:p

Perhaps then the experience model can still feel the same level of anxieties that come with jealousy issues and such because it is in a NEW situation with a NEW person each time and therefore they themselves are in fact a noob despite their veteran title?
 
being a newbie that is involved with someone who has vastly more experience than i by comparison i definitely have made that assumption that she shouldn't have nearly as much trouble dealing with the issues that i had to. but i was COMPLETLY wrong. She has also said that she never used to feel these issues b4 she started trying to be open with me, so maybe she is more of a noob than she realizes:p

Perhaps then the experience model can still feel the same level of anxieties that come with jealousy issues and such because it is in a NEW situation with a NEW person each time and therefore they themselves are in fact a noob despite their veteran title?

yes that status is not necessarily a welcome one for me. I am a highly emotional and easily hurt person, I don't do well with assumptions and negativity that arises from them. I much prefer to just be called by my name and that is it.... no poly, no veteran, no leader, no anything, just me. Anyone who cares to know me for real will conjure up whatever that means for themselves. It is unique and all mine, whether that is a pleasant thing for them or not.
 
New questions-

I was prompted to think about the age thing in my original questions.

3. Does "newby" and "veteran" take on a new meaning when it comes to age? Does a young newby that dates an older veteran have the expectation that they are more skilled at poly and relationships as a whole? Do expectations change with age and life stage within the newby and veteran categories?
 
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two fold question....
1. Is there a tendency towards Newbies thinking that veterans should be more capable of over coming some of the major poly issues such as jealousy... etc.?

That, I don't know. Has anybody done any formal study of noobs to find out if that is a common expectation?

I think there are benefits to experience, certainly. My current marriage has benefited a great deal from what I learned in previous relationships, for example.

and
2. How do you feel about the word "leader" as far as veterans in the poly community go?

I expect it takes a great deal more than being veteran to be a leader. I know I've read material by long-time poly activists that leads me to not want them to represent me in any fashion, so I certainly don't consider them leaders of any sort, though I expect there are people who do look to them for leadership. I've also encountered veteran poly folk whom I wouldn't want giving relationship advice to anybody I value highly, as I expect their advice would do more harm than good.

So, as far as I'm concerned, "veteran" /= "leader" in any meaningful sense.
 
New questions-

I was prompted to think about the age thing in my original questions.

3. Does "newby" and "veteran" take on a new meaning when it comes to age? Does a young newby that dates an older veteran have the expectation that they are more skilled at poly and relationships as a whole? Do expectations change with age and life stage within the newby and veteran categories?

hmmm interesting question...ummm...a hesitant no...age is not a good indicator of experience. 40 year old divorcee from her highschool sweetheart? 35 year old male player who has more notches than a log cabin? A 25 year old who has been poly and aware since they were 17?...

Then comes emotional maturity, baggage and how they handle it, emotional newness.

Now can expectations change perception, yes I suppose it could. But I think anyone walking in making assumtions based on age strictly based on the number are in for a rude awakening.
 
New questions-

I was prompted to think about the age thing in my original questions.

3. Does "newby" and "veteran" take on a new meaning when it comes to age? Does a young newby that dates an older veteran have the expectation that they are more skilled at poly and relationships as a whole? Do expectations change with age and life stage within the newby and veteran categories?

I see there's another thread spawned querying the age question. My response there would be the same as here.

I don't think the raw "number" has any bearing. I know "young" people who have seen and experienced far more in their short lives than people 3 times their age ! I know young people who have the genuine desire to move in a better direction and are willing to put in the work that that requires !
I know middle age, self styled "veterans" that meet NONE of those criteria !

Building a beautiful house takes desire, knowledge, enthusiasm, effort and a willingness to learn. Lacking that you're left to rely on luck - or someone else bailing you out before it all comes tumbling down.

GS
 
1. Is there a tendency towards Newbies thinking that veterans should be more capable of over coming some of the major poly issues such as jealousy... etc.?
and
2. How do you feel about the word "leader" as far as veterans in the poly community go?


As a newby I will attempt to give my answer to these.
1. No I don't think anyone should be anything. I think more time in a poly lifestyle may give a veteran more tools to help deal with these issues, but it is essentialy an emotional response unique to each person.

2.Personaly I like the idea of "experience models" better. I walk a path ofmy own creation, I expect no one to lead me. Offer advice, share similar experiences and outcomes, offer a hand of assistance, absolutely, but not lead. It's just how I view things. I would rather learn from someones experiences, than have them lead me to the answer with no learning along the way.

Just my two cents
 
Hm! I may be among the oldest on the forum, and among the newest to poly.

How about this: people who have worked at self-awareness and mindfulness will, in many cases, cope better with the ups and downs of relationships than those who are not so aware?

But this applies to all personal interactions, doesn't it? Such people are likely to cope better with co-workers, obnoxious teenagers, aging parents, etc. It's a little like saying, People who have worked at their driving skills are generally better drivers.

Well, d'oh!

I think that in interpersonal matters such people are often natural leaders, though. They assert no authority but people like them, respect them, and tend to turn to them for opinions. That's a very different matter from people who appoint themselves spokespersons or who work their way into leadership positions in activism.
 
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