This all so new! Exciting but need advice out jealousy/neediness/expectations.

I'm glad I found this place! I'll try to be as concise as possible.

Quick background fact, I'm recently divorced but my divorce had nothing to do with polyamory. It was just one of those things that didn't work out. Wife left June 2011 and the divorce became final April 2012. I mention the divorce because it was just recently final and I'm still dealing with the emotions of that and that probably plays a part in all of this.

Back in Feb 2012 (long after I was separated and just waiting for divorce to be final) I met this woman in an online forum. It was pure serendipity. She asked me a few questions about my divorce and next thing you know a friendship developed. She was there for many a night of crying in my part. It was a true friendship. So we get to know each other and she tells me how she's in an open marriage. I was so surprised but also intrigued. I have never met someone in an open marriage before. So I asked a million question and she was quite candid with her answers. At this point there was no interest beyond a friendship. She told me of her escapades and her fantasies, I was fascinated. This was a online friendship (she's far away) but it developed into countless texts and hours long weekends calls on Sat and Sunday.

Then she made a move. It caught me by surprise. It escalated quite quickly. Naughty calls, sexy pics, erotic letters and it all ended with "so when are you coming to visit so we can make all this happen?" In a moment of lust and desire I gave in and now we have a 14 day vacation planned at the end of the year. It's all booked and paid for. It's happening.

So here is where we are now. The friendship is there, growing everyday. She speaks at how the friendship is paramount. She has laid down the "rules" ie. don't fall in love, friendship first and last, honesty, etc. I totally agree with her. I will say, I'm NOT in love with her. Of that I'm sure. I lust for her yes, but LOVE love? No at all. I also don't want to be a "boyfriend" or anything like that. This is first friendship, lust when it's possible and that's that.
However, neediness and jealousy have started creeping in on my part.

She's open and loud and honest and brusque to a fault. Like no woman I've ever met (LOL!). As such she has no qualms about telling me of other men she wishes to sleep with. The first time this happened it killed me! The jealousy burned within me bad. She was nice at first, told me that with me it was different because she cared for me as a friend and even when she sleeps with someone else, she has not desire to let them into her life like she has me. But then she switches to brusque and just tells me I need to get over it. I'm not jealous of her husband nor of her ex "boyfriend" that she broke up with last year and talks about from time to time. Yet when she talks of others, I get extremely jealous and insecure. At the same time, as far as I know she hasn't slept with anyone other than her ex boyfriend last year. But my mind goes crazy when I think about it. I don't like this one bit.

How can I deal with this? How does one deal with jealousy and insecurity in a relationship such as this? I understand it's 99% on my part, in my head but it's so hard for me to hear her talk of lusting for other men. Yet on the other hand, I lust for other women and this is certainly not stopping me from pursuing them, she actually encourages me! Am I being just a "guy"? Do I want my cake and eat it too? I don't want to be like this.

Our relationship started off so hot, it has since cooled off into a more everyday friendship with occasional lust and I think that's what's bothering me the most. Sounds so dumb when I write it out actually! I couldn't possibly expect this to be 100% "ON" all the time right? That's where I am right now. I need to detach a bit perhaps, we text every morning/night, some days we'll hardly talk but some days it won't stop. I need to get to a place where it just flows naturally instead of trying to force it, which I do at times.

I hope this made sense and I welcome and look forward to any advice or insight!
 
I have a suggestion....is it possible you meet for say...two nights, now before the 14 week trip?

Don't know about open non romantic relationships, but my first poly relationship was with a friend I met online, and we flirted and talked for a few years (and met once) before we were intimate, and we had a lot of chemical attraction and lust built up over those few years. We had a great 5 days when we did finally have sex, and then the next time we met I had absolutely zero desire to even kiss him. That's why I think a brief meeting before something as extreme as a two week trip would make a lot of sense. I can't even picture spending more than 5 days with a great friend unless I'd spent lots of time with them in person, it seems like a recipe for disaster. Fuck, my ex husband/best friend and I went to Europe several years ago and I still ran out tolerance after being with him 24 hours a day after 8 days, much more stressful than living with each other for 12 years. What I'm trying to say is...two WEEKS?

And I'm sure you're aware of this, but "don't fall in love" is about as far away from polyamory as you can get, so if you don't get the advice that fits your situation here, (cause it'll probably be mentioned that you can't control if you fall in love or not - and you seem to want to stress ...love? no not love, never love!!!) you might want to look in more of a swinging forum (I'd say open relationship forums, but I actually realize I don't know of any)

And for dealing with your feelings of jealousy and all? Opening Up. Great book.
 
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I'm with Anneintherain on that. The first thing that came to my mind reading your post is that 14 days is a LONG period to be with someone you've never spent a considerable amount of time in person before.

Also, the "no falling in love" rule generally ends up in a big mess. You don't fall in love when you don't. You do when you do. There's no helping it, though you can control your actions towards your feelings, I'm yet to see someone who can stop himself from falling in love. Just something to consider.
 
Thanks for your advice. I understand what you are saying. There is sort of a quasi-escape "clause." We are meeting in a big city and then going elsewhere after a few days. She's mentioned that I don't have to join her for the second part if I don't want to and I can go elsewhere by myself or stay behind. So there is that.

I guess I never thought about this aspect because in a way, I feel this might be the only time we might meet. Sure we have plans for more but you never know. We both talked about what if we meet and there is nothing...but I guess we went all in.
 
It might also be that you have a great two weeks and then decide never to meet again. It doesn't need to be a catastrophe just because you never met.

On the jealousy, why are you feeling jealous? Are you afraid of being replaced, either as a lover or as a friend?
 
It might also be that you have a great two weeks and then decide never to meet again. It doesn't need to be a catastrophe just because you never met.

On the jealousy, why are you feeling jealous? Are you afraid of being replaced, either as a lover or as a friend?

We get along so well and talk endlessly on the phone, it never really occurred to me about it being such a long time together. We'll see how that goes.

As for the jealousy, well, it's a little bit the lover part but it worries me a whole lot less than being replaced as a friend. I have always had abandonment issues and my recent divorce has done nothing to help that. I do worry about losing her as a friend. I'm cynical to the end and the way I see it, she found me on that forum and she's very active online in penpal sites and other forums. Who's to say she won't meet someone else? It seems to me she's always seeking that next thrill and adventure.
 
It might also be that you have a great two weeks and then decide never to meet again. It doesn't need to be a catastrophe just because you never met.

That's a good point. I tend to assume people know I don't talk on "beyond doubt and 100% certain of it" terms. My bad.
Of course it's not 100% chance of disaster with this, it never is.

I guess I never thought about this aspect because in a way, I feel this might be the only time we might meet. Sure we have plans for more but you never know. We both talked about what if we meet and there is nothing...but I guess we went all in.

I know the feeling, of having the need to enjoy every moment of it, since you're not sure if you'll ever have another.
I can't help but feel moved by this. It makes me feel happy for you. :eek:

But never mind me being silly, the question Anek made you is an important one: Where is the jaleousy coming from?

Edit: Nevermind the question, I guess we posted at the same time.
I have little advice to give you about fear of being raplace, sadly, since I've been strugling with this myself. I guess all I could say is that mybe getting at the same page with her would help.
 
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Thanks for the input. Her and I continue to talk and I continue to work on myself. It's funny, she is very aware of my trust issues and quite understanding. She knows that I have not given my trust to her fully, she mentions how she'll know when I give it fully to her and she'll be super happy because she knows she's earned it.

It's incredibly, when I'm not in the middle of some anxiety or depressive episode I can see so clearly and understand that some of my issues with her have no real ground other than in my head.
 
I don't know how I got myself into this, but I can't do it. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't.

Here's what I would say. Meet with her, but have no expectations. If it doesn't turn into a sex filled romp, that's OK, you got to spend time with a friend. If it does, great, you got to spend some time with a friend naked.

But whatever you do, make sure she understands. Don't just drop it all and say nothing.
 
Here's what I would say. Meet with her, but have no expectations. If it doesn't turn into a sex filled romp, that's OK, you got to spend time with a friend. If it does, great, you got to spend some time with a friend naked.

But whatever you do, make sure she understands. Don't just drop it all and say nothing.

Thank you for your response. I agree with you. I would never drop it without saying anything. Never. I would hate it if someone did that to me. The communication is there. The problem is that I feel that I'm constantly competing for her attention, specially from her "ex." He's moved away from her and he pops up from time to time. Today he popped up, said some unpleasant things and now she's withdrawn and is not answering my texts. I hate it that he treats her like that. I'm the polar opposite, not even in anger would I say anything to hurt her.

I'm trying to be understanding of the situation, but it's very hard. We are friends, I want to comfort her. I understand she probably needs time but it would be nice if she came out and just said it, instead of just ignoring me and withdrawing.
 
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I understand she probably needs time but it would be nice if she came out and just said it, instead of just ignoring me and withdrawing.

Some people are just like this. I'm sorry. All I can say is to try not to take it personally. For myself, when I am really upset about something I just can't talk to anyone until I have processed it for myself.

Not my best friend, not my boyfriend, not my husband, not my therapist (when I had one). I have to live with it for a certain period of time before I can have more than the most superficial of interactions with anyone else - it's actually easier to interact with strangers than people I know during these periods (and I am someone who hates interacting with strangers). Even just telling someone I care about that I "need space" is a HUGE drain on my emotional energy, which is all tied up dealing with the problem at hand.

Hopefully her withdrawal doesn't last too long and you guys can have a deep and bonding conversation when it is over.

JaneQ
 
My advice is to back away a little bit and slow down. Do not go and spend 14 days with her just yet. You are very conflicted about the relationship and need some space to process and resolve your issues. You are also still dealing emotionally with your divorce, which can take much longer than we realize (I speak from experience - it it often said to take two to three years to fully recover and feel stable again).

Her rule not to fall in love is something that I think really sucks and is kind of dictator-ish to say. Feh, fuck that. Red flag right there. You need to gain some equilibrium before moving forward, and see if this is what you really want.

You may want to visit a forum for LDRs (Long Distance Relationships). I know there is one at http://members.lovingfromadistance.com/forum.php - but it is not poly-focused, so take that into consideration.
 
Some people are just like this. I'm sorry. All I can say is to try not to take it personally. For myself, when I am really upset about something I just can't talk to anyone until I have processed it for myself.

Not my best friend, not my boyfriend, not my husband, not my therapist (when I had one). I have to live with it for a certain period of time before I can have more than the most superficial of interactions with anyone else - it's actually easier to interact with strangers than people I know during these periods (and I am someone who hates interacting with strangers). Even just telling someone I care about that I "need space" is a HUGE drain on my emotional energy, which is all tied up dealing with the problem at hand.

Hopefully her withdrawal doesn't last too long and you guys can have a deep and bonding conversation when it is over.

JaneQ

I understand this. I guess it's at times like these when my insecurities become the worst. I took it pretty bad but yes, late in the evening she reappeared and it was like nothing had happened and we communicated for a few hours.
 
My advice is to back away a little bit and slow down. Do not go and spend 14 days with her just yet. You are very conflicted about the relationship and need some space to process and resolve your issues. You are also still dealing emotionally with your divorce, which can take much longer than we realize (I speak from experience - it it often said to take two to three years to fully recover and feel stable again).

Her rule not to fall in love is something that I think really sucks and is kind of dictator-ish to say. Feh, fuck that. Red flag right there. You need to gain some equilibrium before moving forward, and see if this is what you really want.

You may want to visit a forum for LDRs (Long Distance Relationships). I know there is one at http://members.lovingfromadistance.com/forum.php - but it is not poly-focused, so take that into consideration.

Thanks for your advice. I won't lie, I want my cake and eat it too. We have both canceled previous plans, one each, if I cancel this trip I think this might be it for us. Whatever "us" is. Of course, none of the previous two plans got this far, buying of planet tickets, hotels, etc.

I also get what you say about her saying "not to fall in love" but I'm actually pretty ok with this. More than ok actually. It's weird, I don't love her nor do I want to love her like that. I'm just sooooo enthralled and excited by her. It's pure lust. In reality, I could never be with someone like her. She's the most demanding and selfish person I've ever met.
 
How do you ever get to the "good" place, does anyone ever with these situations? I've read so many entries in this site, I want to be that person, I want to be the person that understands my friend's need to talk to all these people. The jealousy in my part is too much. Every time we talk I am reminded I'm not the only one. Not even close. There is always someone else, someone new. Never mind the logistics of time, how can she possibly pay attention to so many? With her it's the first person I know for a fact that if she is not talking to me, she is not thinking of me. Yet here I am, thinking of her constantly.

I'm surprised I haven't destroyed this yet. Really surprised. A few years ago I would have driven her away in no time. But I have controlled it. I deal with the jealousy within me and never show it to her. I journal, I talk to others, I leave her be. I do care about her. I wish the sex had never gotten involved, which lead to this neediness and co-dependency. The friendship was fine. I feel this friendship has an expiration date. We'll meet, we'll have a great time, I know that, but then what? She can return to her family and her other friends. She'll be ok. How about me? I have nothing to return to.

And you know what? No matter what, no matter what anyone tells me, I'm still meeting her. I have to. I want to. I will regret it for the rest of my life if I don't. I'm cynical. I know a year from then I'll be over the heart break. I'm willing to suffer for 2 weeks of her total attention. Is that sick?
 
I think you are indulging in self-pity and melodrama for no reason. Shake it, man! For your own sake, you've got to snap out of it and wake up.

Every time we talk I am reminded I'm not the only one. Not even close. There is always someone else, someone new.
And? So what if there is? Why does that bother you so much? You want to own her? Own her time, her body, and be the focus of her life? Why so fixated on that?

. . . how can she possibly pay attention to so many? With her it's the first person I know for a fact that if she is not talking to me, she is not thinking of me. Yet here I am, thinking of her constantly.
Well, you gotta stop that. And realize that she may not be thinking of you every minute of every day because she is a well-rounded person with a full life and many interests. So what is your excuse? It isn't just other guys she is thinking about, I'm sure.

I wish the sex had never gotten involved, which lead to this neediness and co-dependency.
You have a choice to let go of your old societal conditioning and addictive neediness. It isn't her fault that you feel this way and it isn't the fact that you had sex with her. It is a pattern of thought process that you unconsciously engage in, so keep looking at this and stop it before it takes hold. Become aware and you have more choices. You don't have to feel as tortured as you do, but it's up to you to get yourself free of it. That is why waking up and examining where these thoughts and feelings are coming from is so important.

She can return to her family and her other friends. She'll be ok. How about me? I have nothing to return to.
More melodrama. Nothing, no one, an empty life when she's not around. And whose fault is that? This is worse than a sappy country song. Do you see how you are putting yourself through the wringer? Why? What do you get out of this pity party? Does suffering make you feel more alive?

I'm willing to suffer for 2 weeks of her total attention. Is that sick?
No, not sick. But you do seem addicted to drama and struggle. And is it possible you are just trying to recreate the closeness you had in your marriage, which is making you get attached too soon and far too deeply?
 
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How do you ever get to the "good" place, does anyone ever with these situations? I've read so many entries in this site, I want to be that person, I want to be the person that understands my friend's need to talk to all these people. The jealousy in my part is too much.

You seem (verbally at least) so sure that love is not what you feel or want to feel - you just have a big dose of jealousy/insecurity you are trying to deal with. I wonder if you realize that equating the desire to be involved with somebody, but not feel love and to be lustfully obsessed with them...and the stories you read here to be conflicting, because polyamory means open to being loving towards more than one person. Maybe that is why you can't reconcile what you are going through now with finding peace or truly helpful advice on this forum, because here there isn't the specific niche support you really need right now?

I don't know how this visit will turn out, and I hope it turns out well. My suggestion is to have aftercare lined up. Have a plan for if things don't go well, or if for YOU think it goes well and she doesn't feel the same. Have plans and outings and hobbies scheduled for a couple weeks after you get home, because I imagine from what you have been saying that there's a possibility that if it doesn't go well it might be very traumatic for you emotionally with the other things you are still working through. Of course there's a good chance you might just visit and realize you aren't that interested, or that meeting her puts things in perspective and you realize you aren't so negatively affected by her other partners, but I will say that your recent posts have made me really want to suggest you have a follow up plan in place since this isn't explored territory for you.

Hmm...I was saying more but I've decided to hold off.
 
I think you are indulging in self-pity and melodrama for no reason. Shake it, man! For your own sake, you've got to snap out of it and wake up.

And? So what if there is? Why does that bother you so much? You want to own her? Own her time, her body, and be the focus of her life? Why so fixated on that?

Well, you gotta stop that. And realize that she may not be thinking of you every minute of every day because she is a well-rounded person with a full life and many interests. So what is your excuse? It isn't just other guys she is thinking about, I'm sure.

You have a choice to let go of your old societal conditioning and addictive neediness. It isn't her fault that you feel this way and it isn't the fact that you had sex with her. It is a pattern of thought process that you unconsciously engage in, so keep looking at this and stop it before it takes hold. Become aware and you have more choices. You don't have to feel as tortured as you do, but it's up to you to get yourself free of it. That is why waking up and examining where these thoughts and feelings are coming from is so important.

More melodrama. Nothing, no one, an empty life when she's not around. And whose fault is that? This is worse than a sappy country song. Do you see how you are putting yourself through the wringer? Why? What do you get out of this pity party? Does suffering make you feel more alive?

No, not sick. But you do seem addicted to drama and struggle. And is it possible you are just trying to recreate the closeness you had in your marriage, which is making you get attached too soon and far too deeply?

Thank you for your reply. Yesterday was a really tough day and as you can see, that's who I become on days like that. No, I don't enjoy any of that, nor do I do it on purpose. I'm a very rational person, when I'm calm I see just how dumb I act, but when I get emotional I get like that. I'm working on that and if you can believe it, I used to be worse! LOL

I am very fortunate though, I have a close female friend that knows of everything with this woman and we talked and she pretty much told the exact same things you did. Eerily the same! I appreciate all of your honesty.
 
You seem (verbally at least) so sure that love is not what you feel or want to feel - you just have a big dose of jealousy/insecurity you are trying to deal with. I wonder if you realize that equating the desire to be involved with somebody, but not feel love and to be lustfully obsessed with them...and the stories you read here to be conflicting, because polyamory means open to being loving towards more than one person. Maybe that is why you can't reconcile what you are going through now with finding peace or truly helpful advice on this forum, because here there isn't the specific niche support you really need right now?

I don't know how this visit will turn out, and I hope it turns out well. My suggestion is to have aftercare lined up. Have a plan for if things don't go well, or if for YOU think it goes well and she doesn't feel the same. Have plans and outings and hobbies scheduled for a couple weeks after you get home, because I imagine from what you have been saying that there's a possibility that if it doesn't go well it might be very traumatic for you emotionally with the other things you are still working through. Of course there's a good chance you might just visit and realize you aren't that interested, or that meeting her puts things in perspective and you realize you aren't so negatively affected by her other partners, but I will say that your recent posts have made me really want to suggest you have a follow up plan in place since this isn't explored territory for you.

Hmm...I was saying more but I've decided to hold off.

Hi and thank you! Actually, I do have plans for after the visit. I have since the beginning. I travel a lot so I have a 10 day road trip planned for when I come back. I do have a great support group around me. I know I'm a fatalist at times but I do hope I have a great time and I can come back and just appreciate what I had.
 
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