Partner wants blackout dates for BF

I would need a partner of mine to respect that and to see that "blackout" dates imply that the rest of my life is somehow secondary to their wants and needs.

Most posters, from what I have gathered, are in favor of making this sacrifice in observance of your [OP] partners wishes. In my opinion this insists two things, 1) that you view the idea of sacrifice for your partners comfort to be a noble virtue and 2) that you view everything outside of your partner to be of secondary importance.

I find it rather telling when one partner asks another partner to sacrifice in this manner (VETO or blackout) to suit their preference. It pretty clearly demonstrates that they find their partners lives to be of secondary concern to the "real" relationship. The issue of current or possible relationships is irrelevant imo; it is the fundamental request that says it all. "My insecurities are more important than your living a genuine life"

Honestly, hearing my partner ask me to lock down an aspect of my life because they are going to be busy for a couple of months would launch me into a very explicit conversation with them about their expectations of my behavior (and how much input they believe they have). Unless I hear something really surprising (I can't imagine what that would be) my answer is unequivocally going to be "No, under no circumstances am I going to sacrifice pieces of my life because they make you nervous". But everyone has to make that choice for themselves.

Life gets busy, it gets difficult... is there going to be a new blackout when he gets into his next level of study? What about when he gets his job? What happens when his parents move to town for a few months? Life is tough, asking other people to take care of your feelings for you is not helping anyone. I expect his being busy with studies is a fine excuse to veto your being poly and will search for a new reason once this has passed.

Also, I don't think it's relevant to compare this to a medical condition because one is choice while the other isn't. While I still am against setting rules for other peoples behavior when I'm in a spot of trouble... I do think the gravity of the situation changes the nature of the conversation.

That's just it I don't believe he accepts the fact that she is poly. He is in the process of trying to but he is not there yet.

Truly, marriage sounds like a hilariously bad idea at the moment. Not that I will marry for any reason... but I sure as hell would hit the pause button on this one.
 
Also, I don't think it's relevant to compare this to a medical condition because one is choice while the other isn't.

So, in your mind, it would be more acceptable for him to choose a less demanding career path (which means the time, energy, and money spent on all his medical education would be wasted) or choose to delay taking the exam (which could cost him dearly in terms of job opportunity and general retention for exam prep) so that he has the energy and focus to work through the growing pains of opening a relationship?

They aren't relationship anarchists. They didn't start out open or poly. He had the expectation of monogamy for over FIVE YEARS and expected them to work as a unit to get through things in life. Just taking that step is a lot of work for anyone, especially those with monogamous leanings.

OP- I 100% agree that asking you to stop seeing someone you care about is a big deal. So, if you honestly care for this guy you've been seeing, refusing the request but agreeing to limiting the time you spend with someone else is completely valid IMO. If, however, you're only refusing because you want to keep pushing the relationship open and play the field... That still feels disrespectful to me.
 
So, in your mind, it would be more acceptable for him to choose a less demanding career path (which means the time, energy, and money spent on all his medical education would be wasted) or choose to delay taking the exam (which could cost him dearly in terms of job opportunity and general retention for exam prep) so that he has the energy and focus to work through the growing pains of opening a relationship?

Absolutely! By asking someone else to sacrifice *instead* of him, he is clearly demonstrated that a change needs to be made because he simply can't keep up. If he can't keep up then I find it much more appropriate for him to alter his life accordingly since he is the one with the issue.

Why would it make more sense for his partner to do this for him?

They aren't relationship anarchists. They didn't start out open or poly. He had the expectation of monogamy for over FIVE YEARS and expected them to work as a unit to get through things in life. Just taking that step is a lot of work for anyone, especially those with monogamous leanings.

Sounds like life is changing and his expectations might no longer be appropriate. He needs to figure out a way to adjust to suit reality instead of trying to get reality to suit his reluctance. One doesn't have to be a relationship anarchist to recognize that they are responsible for their own maturity and emotional limitations.
 
Sounds like life is changing and his expectations might no longer be appropriate.

To clarify further, this could be said for the OP as well. The OP used to be mono (I presume), has changed their worldview regarding romantic relationships, but finds herself in a position which is not accepting of her new values. So, she can complain that the fiance isn't being reasonable according to her standards, but what she needs to be looking at is whether her expectations are appropriate for her world. She should look at her own emotions and decisions and act according to what is healthy and likely to foster the most flourishing.

Hopefully that doesn't involve a state sanctioned life contract during this bout of emotional crisis.
 
Graviton hit it right on the head. Your fiance has probably had to put a lot of time into his studies to even do well enough to be able to seriously take the med board exams. Then, six months ago as he is coming down the home stretch, you go poly on him, and your own statements say each time you go out with other men it is very stressful for him, stress he needs like a hole in the head right now. He obviously wants no part of it but fortunately for him he is staying focused on the goal. A goal by the way that if you do wind up with him will provide you with comforts in life that most people will never see. Are you in as potentially lucrative career field???

So if he becomes a doctor and gets called out in the middle of the night, are you going to refuse to come home from or go out on a date because your new boyfriend might dump you. Or if you have kids are you going to tell him he has to ignore the call in to the hospital because you have an important date.

Graviton said it right. I'd place money that you two never see the alter, and Marcus also had it right, the talk of marraige between you two is more than hilarious at this point. He will have no problem finding a woman who is able to put her hormones on hold for a few weeks if necessary to assist him in succeeding in achieving a goal he has spent countless hours pursuing. And i doubt if he'll want to be explaining to his collegues and business associates in that profession that you are not at events with him because you are out on dates.

You are certainly entitled to be free to do whatever you want to do. If i was your fiance and you expressed the attitude you have now, i would ask you where you 3 month boyfriend lives so i could ship your belongings there.
 
Absolutely! By asking someone else to sacrifice *instead* of him, he is clearly demonstrated that a change needs to be made because he simply can't keep up. If he can't keep up then I find it much more appropriate for him to alter his life accordingly since he is the one with the issue.

Why would it make more sense for his partner to do this for him?

Because her sacrifice would be temporary. His would be life-long. That makes more sense to me. Personally, I think part of a loving relationship is making your partner's life better in the process. If I'm adding to the stress more than I am adding pleasure, then that relationship is failing and I am not being loving. If I have someone in my life who insists we live our lives completely independently with little to no regard for how our actions affect the other? Well, they wouldn't be in my life anymore, because who needs that shit?
 
Hopefully that doesn't involve a state sanctioned life contract during this bout of emotional crisis.


I wonder that myself. Were I either of them, I'd strongly distrust the potential outcome of legal joining. Their trajectories are rather different, and based on her posts I don't think she grasps the importance he places on his future career. Very, very different world views = trouble ahead.
 
If I have someone in my life who insists we live our lives completely independently with little to no regard for how our actions affect the other? Well, they wouldn't be in my life anymore, because who needs that shit?

I don't know who is saying that, but it certainly isn't my intention to draw that kind of reductionist picture. I am simply stating that there is a line which I personally "don't need that shit" as you put it. There is a difference between being compassionate, conscientious, and courteous ... and sacrificing living in action to someone elses insecurities. Unless I have been entirely unclear I'm sure you can tell which I condone and which find repulsive to my worldview.

The OP will have to figure out what her priorities are and act accordingly (as should the fiance, though he's apparently left it up to her to take care of it for him).
 
I wonder that myself. Were I either of them, I'd strongly distrust the potential outcome of legal joining. Their trajectories are rather different, and based on her posts I don't think she grasps the importance he places on his future career. Very, very different world views = trouble ahead.

Right?? It's not like there is nothing but doom and gloom ahead for them but the deck is stacked against them right now. Getting tangled up in a contract with this kind of uncertainty would seem ill advised, and that's not even getting into the pressure the marriage and then contract will apply to the association.
 
I guess I don't see refraining from dating as "not living." There are a lot of other things I can do with my time and energy.
 
I guess I don't see refraining from dating as "not living." There are a lot of other things I can do with my time and energy.

If her love life outside of her fiance was as shrug-worthy to her as it is to you, I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark that we wouldn't have heard about it. Right? So within the context of this conversation it is an important facet of "living" for her... so not doing it would be "not living" that particular and important aspect of life.
 
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I think a better question is why are the two of you getting married? If this kind of thing were happening during my engagement and I were him I would seriously rethink getting legally tied to you. I work with doctors every day and they are some of the most conservative and prideful people I know. I find it astounding that he is willing to marry a poly girl let alone one that doesn't want to help him in his career goals at the expense of her fun time with her new boy friend. I will truly be amazed if the two of you make it down the altar. I'm not speaking ill of you but rather astounded at what an odd couple the two of you seem to make.

I agree with Graviton.I think this situation questions whether or not the OP or her fiance are compatible.
 
I disagree, politely, but disagree. Of course I could keep myself busy for two months. That doesn't mean I'm still available for them when they decide they're ready for me again.....

I'm hardly going to put my life on hold for two months.

Which is totally ok PiP.
However- it would make us incompatible. Because, as I said, there have been MANY MANY times when lives were too busy for me to get more than a passing ily with either of my LIVE IN PARTNERS.
Currently-it's finals for me at school. NO SOCIALIZING is happening. I don't have time and I'm too stressed out. So every "extra" I have, goes to my kids, because I have a duty to them. That's all I have.
I'm not going out on romantic dates with either of my partners. But-they aren't bitching and complaining, because they both know that when shit gets heavy in their lives I will be doing the back-up duty for them (as I have in the past). It's part of hte give-take of our relationships. Sometimes we have unlimited time together. Sometimes we have none. But we don't get bent out of shape when we can't have time because soemthing more important has come up (and to be clear-I'm not saying husband, I am referring to BOTH of my partners).

I understand the OP. I mean, I may or may not. But I can see why she might be concerned. To me, if you accept me as poly, you don't put a "stop" to that at any time. Anymore than you could tell me to quit my job for a month. Or stop seeing my friends for a month.
Except, there are circumstances within a relationship when I have had to quit a job for my partner. I have had to stop seeing friends for a period of time for a partner, in fact, I will be living on an isolated island for 8 months this year, away from all of my extended family and friends, because my partner has a job he needs to do-and we need his income. SO off we go.
This is a temporary request, to finish a long term goal.
I don't "stop being poly" even when I only have one partner. But-there are times, one partner has something major they need me for-and they get it. Other times, it's the other partner. I don't prioritize one over the other in general-but I do prioritize the needs of one over the wants of the other. Which means sometimes I am unavailable to one-because of the needs of the other and vice versa.

2) that you view everything outside of your partner to be of secondary importance.


Also, I don't think it's relevant to compare this to a medical condition because one is choice while the other isn't.


Truly, marriage sounds like a hilariously bad idea at the moment. Not that I will marry for any reason... but I sure as hell would hit the pause button on this one.
I don't think one has to consider everything outside secondary. As a student, (and not a med student) I can say that the very last thing I need when I am dealing with finals, is any outside stressor.
In my opinion; her opting to drop poly into the existing mono relationship 6 months prior to the end of his education-was an asshole move. (and I say this while fully acknowledging that how I dropped poly into our dynamic was also an asshole move).
If they had already been poly before he started on the path of education-I would say his request was b.s.
But they weren't. This is new and it's perfectly feasible that it IS TOO MUCH. To throw away years of hard work because you can't wait to get your rocks off two months-and then deal with the dramatic b.s. of trying to change a mono relationship to poly?
In the best of situations going from mono to poly is complicated. Doing it under duress? Idiot move.
Likewise, under the best of scenarios med school is complicated. Doing it under duress? Idiot move.

And no-a medical condition isn't *necessarily* a choice. But getting on a horse was a choice and that is what caused the fall that created the medical condition.
Choosing to be in a relationship with someone in med school was also a choice.
He did NOT CHOOSE to get in a relationship with someone who was poly.
Yes, life changes. But it's not unreasonable to say "this change isn't going to be functional if we do it today. So we can wait-or we can watch this boat sink." If he gave NO timeline-I would also say "screw off". But he gave a very specific, short time line for getting his affairs in order. That is a very reasonable move.
 
FYI- I wouldn't terminate a relationship for either partner.

But not meeting new people and not going out on a date, in certain circumstances for specific reasons and specified amounts of time I would do for a partner, a child, a family member or even a friend.
 
It isn't necessarily unreasonable. However, you have to be careful not to be pulled in by someone both selfish and manipulative. You see, this "our life is too busy/stressful to be poly" can be a ploy by some people to ensure every time you look like you're forming other attachments, something happens that is suddenly the reason nobody can date anyone else. The worse thing is when that person configures things so they can continue their multiple relationships but put a stop on their partners.
 
Usually I like to completely read a thread before responding, but I really wanted to comment on this so I skipped over a few posts. So, I apologize if I'm not bringing anything new to the discussion.

First of all, what does Joe think of this? I'm guessing you probably haven't discussed it with him. If he's understanding about it there might not be a problem. If I was in Joe's position, and you said "Dan says I have to stop seeing you for two months," I'd be pissed! However, if you explained the situation, or better yet, if Dan approached me himself and explained his concerns I'd be very willing to try to work with you and him. If Dan and Joe get together and talk things out, maybe have a few beers and get to know each ether better, Dan may may feel better about you seeing him. Although the treatment I've gotten from metamours tends to range from disdainful tolerance to outright persistent hostility, so my biased experience leads me to believe this is unlikely to happen.

If you think the above might work, stop reading now. That is the best option, from here it's about the least bad option.

Dan might not be intentionally trying to manipulate you, but he is being manipulative. He stated a demand as a request, and seeing as he wouldn't agree to you seeing Joe once a month (only twice during the original blackout period for fuck's sake! I mean, come on! At least give a half-hearted "I'll think about it" before saying no.), he's demonstrated he's unwilling to compromise.

Personally, unwillingness to compromise is a deal breaker for me. I take it as "do what I want or this relationship is over," and I always choose the later option. However, Dan made his "request" to avoid stress. Ending the relationship would probably cause a great deal more stress than than denying his "request." So, he's essentially giving you the options of doing what he wants or destroying his career. Personally, I'd say his career is not your responsibility and leave his manipulative ass, but there may be other options if you really want to maintain this relationship.

You could give in. Considering you've only been seeing Joe for three months, a nearly three month break will probably mean the end of that relationship. If he gets away with manipulating you this time, he'll do it again. This ends shitty for you.

You could agree to his terms, and then do what you want without his knowledge. As Dan Savage likes to say "Cheating is always wrong, except for when it isn't. Sometimes it is the least worst option." However, I don't believe that's the case here.

The best compromise is probably a temporary "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement, and realistically will result in the least amount of stress for Dan. If you leave him, he'll be stressed. If you deny his request, he'll be stressed. If you agree to his terms, he'll probably worry that you're cheating on him. A DADT thing would allow him to put the topic out of his mind the most out of all the options.
 
Interesting thread.

I can see both sides of the coin. I agree with the consensus, but I also always find something illuminating in what Marcus has to say.

Your wants/needs are no more or less important than Dan's. The problem here is a) how willing you both are to compromise, b) how much you both want poly, c) what the motivations and realities behind Dan's request are, and d) whether poly is, ultimately, a bigger need for you than having Dan in your life.

One thing that concerns me is that you say you communicated "to" Dan. Could you have pushed for poly and ignored Dan's true feelings? You both feel what you feel and need what you need. However, as others have said, some serious time to think should be taken about realistic expectations of the future.

Poly is rarely a straight road. It can take a long time, years even, to truly embrace it in a coerced poly situation. The progression isn't always linear and there are hurdles along the way. The problem tends to appear when one partner is dying to push ahead with poly after years of craving it, and one partner is grieving the loss of monogamy. It takes time to unpick patterns. It's during this time that both partners need to decide whether making concessions is an option or not.

You also need to determine whether Dan's request is because he expects your needs to be secondary to his, whether he is genuinely asking for a temporary break that he plans to make up to you, or whether he's really trying to show you that everything is moving too fast and he cannot cope. These three reasons are very different and shouldn't be placed into the same box.

Dan will essentially be absent for 2 months and you feel you need an emotional outlet. This is understandable. However, does this speak of bigger issues in your relationship and unhappiness in certain core areas? Or is this purely a temporary void that you foresee needing to fill? Additionally, while you are unhappy about having to feel lonely and emotionally unfulfilled while Dan is studying, have you considered how lonely and emotionally unfilled Dan may have felt at numerous points over the last 6-9 months? There is also something to be said for being our own emotional outlet for temporary periods. While poly can enrich existing relationships through need-fulfillment, it can also do exactly the thing that most affairs do - take our attention away from the relationship and trap us in a cycle of fulfilling our needs through others. It's something to consider.

If Dan has offered you poly on a relatively request-free basis so far, he's asking for a temporary compromise. If you feel that you have compromised a lot so far, then you could consider asking for something in return. Yes, you could enter a short-term DADT. Or, you could only date Joe until it fizzles out. Or, you could request a 3 month period of no requests when you get back from vacation. Or, you could deny Dan's request, but offer more structure to your activities, like restricting your poly activities to certain days of the week, or certain periods during the day, which may help Dan to feel less overwhelmed.

To be honest, I think that communication is the first point of call. Don't assume that Dan is being demanding and selfish. Don't assume he will always want you to sacrifice. Don't assume that he sees his needs as more important. If you want poly and he doesn't, consider what he has sacrificed for you and ask yourself if you are giving enough back in return. Talk to him and address the real problem.
 
It is the fundamental request that says it all. "My insecurities are more important than your living a genuine life"

my answer is unequivocally going to be "No, under no circumstances am I going to sacrifice pieces of my life because they make you nervous"

Marcus, you seem to be implying a very "oppositional" relationship - they ask for something, you perceive it as manipulation, and refuse. While I totally agree with the sentiment of being true to yourself, this isn't my experience of how relationships actually work.

It's a cliche, but in my experience successful relationships really are all about compromise. My husband and I have entered into a partnership, where we agree to work together to find the best path forward for us both. Sometimes that means he compromises, sometimes I compromise, and often we both compromise. We are prepared to do this because the partnership ultimately makes us both stronger and happier.

When I wanted to move towards poly relationships, I took my husband's discomfort very seriously. If my husband is miserable, then it makes me miserable, and that is not the way to a happy household! Even aside from the fact that I love my husband and genuinely want him to be happy, from an entirely selfish point of view it makes sense for me to act in a way that takes his emotions into account, since they influence my life so much.

Therefore, we approached it through long discussions over a period of time. I expressed how important this was to me, and why, and I listened to how he felt, and why. Together, we worked out a plan to get us there. This does involve going slowly, gradually ramping up what we're doing over time. I am accepting a lot of temporary boundaries. And, to be honest, I have genuinely delighted in seeing my husband come with me on the journey, and the positive impact on our relationship as a whole through the enhanced communication that has been necessary. I feel this is ultimately much more likely to be successful than simply telling him what I'm doing, and that he should suck it up and get used to it.

I do agree with your attitude that you can ultimately only control what you, yourself, do and feel, and others need to similarly take care of their own actions and feelings. I apply this by thinking in any situation about what I want the end result to be, and working out how I can act to move everything towards that goal. My goal in this case was for my husband and I to have happy poly relationships. If I ultimately want to get there, it is absolutely essential that I take my husband's feelings into account, move slowly, and bring him with me on the journey. Compromising what I want NOW is essential for achieving the longer term, bigger picture.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, Marcus - perhaps I've misunderstood your point of view.

With respect to the OP - I agree with Marcus and others that you don't seem to be in the right place for marriage right now, if you're not willing to compromise on this. I would absolutely put things on hold while my partner did his exams, and reopen the conversation later when things are less stressful. You have your whole life to explore this, and your partner is going to be an essential part of making that work. It sounds like he's been willing to compromise and come with you on this so far, so some reciprocal compromise sounds in order. Think about where you want to be five years from now, and how you should act now to bring that about.
 
Marcus, you seem to be implying a very "oppositional" relationship - they ask for something, you perceive it as manipulation, and refuse.

I'm not implying that. While I do have a different point of view from what is traditionally accepted, I have in no way implied that an antagonistic and confrontational approach to relating is what will be best for everyone.

Behaving according to our priorities with compassion but without sacrifice is in no way antagonistic or hostile.

It's a cliche, but in my experience successful relationships really are all about compromise.

We disagree on a fundamental level, and that's really ok.

from an entirely selfish point of view it makes sense for me to act in a way that takes his emotions into account, since they influence my life so much.

We don't do things which offer us no positive reward. I just don't choose to view that reality through poetic and crowd pleasing language.
 
It's a cliche, but in my experience successful relationships really are all about compromise. My husband and I have entered into a partnership, where we agree to work together to find the best path forward for us both. Sometimes that means he compromises, sometimes I compromise, and often we both compromise. We are prepared to do this because the partnership ultimately makes us both stronger and happier.
There's a difference between being unwilling to compromise, and being unwilling to give in. The OP agreed to not date anyone new, and that wasn't enough for Dan, and then she offered to see Joe only once a month, and that still wasn't enough for Dan. She isn't the one who is unwilling to compromise here.

Sometimes giving in is necessary for the success of a relationship, but it's unclear whether or not this is one of those times. Personally, I'm a little wary about giving in because in previous relationships I was usually expected to cave and rarely if ever got what I asked for. That'll probably change once I experience relationships that are less one-sided.
 
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