A new adventure

I'm sure that you three all got a notification that I had replied to this thread, and came here and were like "WTF? There's no reply.". But I did reply, and thought twice about my reply. Here you got though.

It's not a damn game or competition like a stupid wrestling match.

It's love, emotions, being sensitive, knowing yourself... it's not cat and mouse. If she doesn't feel smothered, respect that she actually likes the attention. Sheesh.
Life is a game. You can either play, or not. If you play, you live. If not, you die. Relationships are also a game. If you play, you interact with another person or more. If not, you don't. Simple. I refer to it as "cat and mouse". When one person plays the cat, they are the aggressor. When they play the mouse, they are more timid, and receptive. Sometimes, you have to play a bit of each part, but it's impossible to play both at the same time.

When I asked her if she felt smothered, she hesitated before answering "not exactly". This tells me that she was uncertain or wasnt sure how to answer. It was a yes or no question. Not a lot of wiggle room in it. But I respect her answer. While I'm respecting it, I'm also giving her a little more space.

Wow. I would NEVER play the part for someone who is so poorly invested.
And that's your perogative. However, you would never know how "poorly invested" the person was....until it was too late. The only way to know, is when I actually say "I'm breaking up with you. I just don't want to deal with it." Then, you (or she) would realize how "poorly invested" I was/am. But keep reading please. ;)

An argument or a few heated words on an understandably stressful day and the relationship that you were head over heels about is suddenly over for you? And you feel like a victim? What the...???!!!
Well...I DO see how trivial you must see this as. I wouldn't say I was "head over heels" for anyone. I was definatly enjoying the company and the companionship. I also enjoyed the fact that she and my wife got along.

I feel that we are all THREE the victim's in this instance. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I'm trying to tread lightly. I've decided to give V space. She seems to have wanted some. I think it is best for now. Maybe next week, I'll send her a message again. But for now...I'm holding off.......and trying to let HER message US first so we don't encroach on her personal time.

I'm not throwing it all away, but I AM holding off on advancing the relationship further, and I AM keeping certain walls in place to protect myself and make it so I'm able to make hard decisions when and/or if the time comes.
 
Jealousy......I hate it....So, I've been sitting back and not being overbearing.....Waiting for V to contact me, instead of the other way around. But all this time away from L and I, has allowed her to be in contact with someone else. Now I feel like we're in a competition with this other guy.

Uggh! Why would I feel jealousy? I mena, she's not my wife.....She's my wife and I's girlfriend. She DID tell this other guy once before that she was seeing US, but yet he keeps trying to get with her. GRRRR!!
 
It would SOUND that simple wouldn't it? And typically, that would be fine......However, she told US (my wife and I) in the beginning, that she was poly-fi, and she wanted to be with a couple. Well, New guy (I'll call him N) was involved in a very LARGE poly family, but has since left that dynamic. He told V, about 2 weeks ago, that he knew that she was poly-fi, he also knew that she was looking for a COUPLE, and that while he didn't meet that exact make up anymore, he was still interested if she was. She told him, at that time, that she was currently seeing a couple and that she was flattered. (This is what she told us anyway, and we have no reason not to believe her.....)She also told him that if anything changed, she would let him know. Now, after our spat, she suddenly wants to go on walks with him 2x a week. :/ Also, we had given her a necklace, which she wore up until this point, and now doesn't wear it at all. Interesting.....L and I do not trust N. We know him from a local poly discussion group, and also know some of his various beliefs with respect to poly. So....No, we don't trust him at all.


On the plus side, V opened up a little more last night to us and expressed some of HER fears. THAT was a nice feeling, even if her fears were unfounded. She fears that we will be (my wife and I) disappointed in her. Like she's not going to be enough or what we expect. :rolleyes: I tried to let her know that we care for her the way she is. And not to change anything about herself. She said that it may be a long time before she will feel comfortable to move in with us. L and I both said that we didn't have any expectations about that. I told V that, while living together is a great goal, it is not an expectation or a requirement. She seemed somewhat relieved.

My wife and I have not yet told V that we are jealous of N, yet. We have chosen to sit back, and let this beautiful woman do as she pleases. She is single, afterall, and will attract lots of men and women. I can't help but think that she may be doing this as a defense mechanism so she doesn't get too close, too fast. :confused:
 
Sigh....Ok, L brought up a good point today to me. I asked her if maybe V was using N to show me how much it hurt to hear about S & D (L and I's previous lovers) all the time. L told me "No. N has just come out of a long relationship and is hurting. V is just a very caring person and doesn't like to see her friends hurting."

This is true. And now....I feel like a heel. :rolleyes:
 
I had a dream last night....That I actually kinda remembered today. I don't remember ALL my dreams. In fact, it's kinda rare for me to remember one. However, last night I dreamt I was on a cruise ship. I was on it as an employee or something. I have no idea who the group of people I was on it with were, but they were mostly younger than me. Well, I went to take a cell phone pic of myself, and I had no service to even take the pic. In fact, my phone was breaking also. Weird. So I went out on the deck to see if I could get service outside. Still no service, but I COULD see that we were hung up on a sand bar.....This lasted a few seconds, and then we were headed out to sea again.

I am a firm believer that dreams can represent our futures. (Not that they DO every time, but they can) A little research shows that a dream of being on a cruise ship can represent an emotional journey that a person is going through.

This makes sense to me, even if it has represented something past. With V, we hit a sand bar, and then moved on past it. I hope for smooth seas ahead.
 
My sister is great at analyzing dreams, she could do it for a living, if there was a demand for that. She is of the school that believes all elements of a dream can represent a part of oneself.

I think the part about trying to take a picture of yourself with your cell phone is significant. It seems to address the way you pictured (wanted) things to go, and how you wanted people to see you, but your old way of doing it was limiting and literally falling apart. And communication was a large part of that. So you had to go out further (onto the deck) where you could see more of the situation (the big picture) to get clarity about what's happening. It's also interesting that you're at a standstill when your focus is on the little screen on the cell phone (could be interpreted as self-absorption or trying to make things fit into a pre-conceived "box"), but then the whole ship (life, relationship) starts to move forward in the water (emotions) when you look around you, include more in your view, and see the situation for what it is.
 
GAH! What a rollercoaster!

Ok, an INSTANT LOW, followed by a leveling out! Uggh! I almost puked! LOL

Earlier today, I saw that tonight it's supposed to get pretty cold out. in the freezing levels.....And this is TAMPA! Anyway, V doesn't have working heat at her place, but has a space heater for her room. She tells L and I all the time, that it's still cold in her place. So today, after seeing the news about the weather, I sent V a text inviting her over to spend the night. I told her that I knew we all had to go to work tomorrow, so I would keep my wandering hands to myself and we could all go to bed early. Well, she just now responded, telling me that she appreciated the offer, but that she would be ok, and possibly spending the night somewhere ELSE tongiht! :eek: My mind raced to bad places, automatically thinking the worst. Then, she sends me another text asking someone named "T" if they were still on for tonight. HUH? Obviously a wrong number thing, because while my first initial is "T", I hadn't set up ANYTHING with her for tonight! LOL

Yep...As I was trying to figure out exactly WTF was going on, she texts again and says that was meant for another person. (a female with the first initial of T)

A sigh of relief from me......then I realize that she lived as a lesbian for 5 years...married to a woman....INSTANT LOW again! AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!ONE!!!!!!!!


I'm trying to get busy and filling up my mind so it doesn't wander. I, for some odd reason, can't for the life of me remember what her daughter's name is! GRRRRRRRR
 
Ok, She went to her daughters house for the evening.....But now she is sick and can't spend any time with us. :( I'm feeling odd about our relationship. Like we are growning apart. Like she doesn't WANT to spend time with my wife and I...or even just with me...or just with my wife. :(

I guess, if she feels like that, it would just be nice to know so I can move on.
 
TL, you run hot and cold from minute to minute. Geez, the woman is sick, give her a break. Instead of thinking of yourself, you could show some concern for her, instead. Does she need anything? Can you do anything for her? If someone I cared about was sick, I wouldn't be bitching about what I wasn't getting from them. Remember your dream -- step out of that self-absorption and look at the big picture! Stop being such a fatalist! Life is good!
 
TL, you run hot and cold from minute to minute. Geez, the woman is sick, give her a break. Instead of thinking of yourself, you could show some concern for her, instead. Does she need anything? Can you do anything for her? If someone I cared about was sick, I wouldn't be bitching about what I wasn't getting from them. Remember your dream -- step out of that self-absorption and look at the big picture! Stop being such a fatalist! Life is good!
Actually, the first thing that came out of my mouth was "Oh no! This is my fault!" Then I sent her a text telling her I hoped she felt better soon and asking her if L or I could do anything for her. Trust me, I showed her concern. This concern was met with.......nothing. No response, no thank you, no f-you, no nothing.

The reason I feel it was MY fault, is because 2 weeks ago, I was sick.....and I accidentally gave her a kiss. So yeah....Probably MY fault for being careless.

Anyway, my point with THIS post, is that I'm NOT just thinking of myself here. When genuine concern is shown, and not met with anything, it leads a person to believe that the concern is not WANTED or desired.




My wife and I are going out this weekend to Naples, and wanted to see her before we left. Maybe spend some quality time with her. but it seemed like she made an excuse not to see us. (Especially since we told her we would like to go out with her, about 2 weeks ago, this weekend....and she said she didn't want to disrupt our anniversary weekend. Which we told her she wouldn't be doing, and that we actually WANTED to spend the time with her before we left.) I have to believe that she is genuinely sick, and simply doesn't want to give it back to us. But at least ACCEPTING some concern, and responding SOMEHOW, would be nice. Know what I mean?
 
Lots of time I text or msg my boytoy and he doesnt respond til he's good and ready. We've been together almost 2 years. People have different communication styles. It pays to have patience. Remember you were saying you didn't want to smother her? Give her some space and have some trust.
 
Anyway, my point with THIS post, is that I'm NOT just thinking of myself here. When genuine concern is shown, and not met with anything, it leads a person to believe that the concern is not WANTED or desired.
I hope you know I wasn't scolding you, but trying to boost you up. You often seem to let yourself get carried away with your emotions and thoughts, and then it sounds like you obsess and get upset over stuff that you have blown a bit out of proportion. Then, you're blissful again when something or someone reassures you. I think you need to find a way to stabilize yourself a bit, so that you don't keep getting knocked around moment-to-moment by life's uncertainties and fluctuations.
My wife and I are going out this weekend to Naples, and wanted to see her before we left. Maybe spend some quality time with her. but it seemed like she made an excuse not to see us . . . I have to believe that she is genuinely sick, and simply doesn't want to give it back to us. But at least ACCEPTING some concern, and responding SOMEHOW, would be nice. Know what I mean?
Some people just really need to isolate and nurture themselves quietly when sick. Plus, she might feel you are pressuring her, so perhaps there is a bit of hesitation on her part. But so what? Can't she be herself in this relationship? I agree with Magdlyn, you need to give her some space, man.

For yourself, try to remember that your feelings of well-being, worth, "okay-ness" in the world, and self-esteem shouldn't be so dependent upon on what others feel about you, or if they want to be with you or not. Find ways to feel good about yourself and enjoy what you got, so that if she wants to be with you, it's icing on the cake. And if she doesn't, or she needs time to herself (which people often do) for whatever reason, that's just a choice she made, and you can look forward to the next time you get together. You don't have to make everything so "life and death!"

I say all this to you with compassion and empathy, I hope you know. But I do feel like I want to shake you a bit! ;)
 
But I do feel like I want to shake you a bit! ;)
Hehe...I might like it. :p

Actually, I DON'T like the bondage thing. :eek: But I respect those that do. (my wife is into it a little)

Anyway,
I guess I'm not like other people here then. I always knew I was a bit off and different. You see, I always thought that when a person was dating someone, they showed them SOME sort of an interest, and at least RESPONDED to them when they spoke to them. Of course, maybe I'm wrong. And then, when they responded, they would do so with SOME resemblance of caring, and not so non-shelantly as if they couldn't care less.


I mean, to me, it's the equivalent of you saying to your SO that you love them....and your SO looks away and doesn't even acknowledge your existence. Or even you OSO.




Magdlyn,
V is not simply our toy. for us, a relationship with a boytoy is COMPLETELY different than a relationship with someone you love. To us, a "boytoy", is someone you simply fuck, and send them home. No emotions or wanting to know more about them. Just how they are in bed. L and I have done that before, but we want more. V knows this, and has expressed that she also wants more. However, she has a funny way of showing it.

:confused:
 
L and I have done that before, but we want more. V knows this, and has expressed that she also wants more. However, she has a funny way of showing it. :confused:

You just talked about how you're backing off from her a little while ago, within the last two weeks, and waiting for her to play cat to your mouse. Have you considered that maybe she feels rejected by you doing that? And confused by all of your hot and cold actions? "I don't want to let her get close" "OMG, she didn't respond to my text right away, I have to ask her if she really likes me". It seems to me like she's treating you in exactly the same way you're treating her.
 
Hannah, You bring up a very good point. And it is completely possible. I DID think that she may have felt rejected by my doing that, so I picked up again. (albeit at a little slower level)

And...Well, As I was taught before...if you always give what you've always given, you'll always get what you always got.

I HAVE found that with V, if I don't ask, I never know. I have also found wiht V, that if I lead, she will follow.

But how to impliment these findings to the benefit of all parties involved?
 
Magdlyn,
V is not simply our toy. for us, a relationship with a boytoy is COMPLETELY different than a relationship with someone you love. To us, a "boytoy", is someone you simply fuck, and send them home. No emotions or wanting to know more about them. Just how they are in bed.

OK, I am going to ramble a bit, off topic, so be forewarned:

Actually I have a huge crush on my boytoy. I respect the hell out of him. I do love him, in a certain way. He's so mature for his age, so responsible. Plus he has this certain nonchalance, lots of confidence, an effortless calm about him. And he's really funny and has a great vocabulary. Also, his brother is mentally troubled and needs a lot of care, which is similar to my daughter's needs, so we kinda get each other in that area as well.

sigh... he's also really cute, not in a conventional model way, but tall (6'4"), skinny, pale, with a big mop of curly black hair.

I call him my toy because all those things make me attracted to him and want to "play" with him a lot. I never send him home, he leaves because he has other commitments, a job, to drive his brother somewhere, etc. I've just never pressured him to be more than my FWB, because of our age difference. I know if I'd pressed him to take me out on dates, or introduce me to his friends, he would've been gone long ago and I wouldn't have the pleasure of his charming company once or twice a month.

I admit our relationship is primarily sexual, but omg we are so perfectly sexually matched, the passion, the creativity, the boundaries explored and pushed, it's like a bit of heaven every time we get together. And as I said elsewhere, he's become much more affectionate and cuddly in recent months. After sex I often give him a back massage and he just melts under my hands... it's so nice and relaxing.

My gf is pretty angsty and dramatic, so being with the boy is a nice break, a mini-vacation, kind of a Zen experience.
 
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Magdlyn,
I can understand. However, our relationship with V is not simply a sexual one. We have no desire to make it simply a sexual relationship. In fact, since knowing her, we've all only gotten together that way twice. It was devine to be sure, but not the be all end all of the relationship. I, personally, enjoy simply being around her. Holding hands with her, holding her, etc. All the same things I enjoy with my wife. There is a different feel to her though.

V lived as a lesbian, married to a woman for 5 years. She was also, at one time, married to a man. I think it was for around the same time period. She is older and more mature than I am. Maybe not more mature than my wife, but definatly more mature than me! LOL :D

She has a great sexual desire, and touts that fact. I often wonder if she is simply not getting enough sex from us, and may be seeking it out elsewhere. If so, this is kinda a deal breaker. The reason is that we all....as in her, my wife, and myself.....went into this relationship knowing that we were all poly-fi, and not just looking for fuck buddies or toys. So....IF (note the large letters) that's all she wants, she needs to let us know, so we can move on. If NOT, then again, she needs to let us know so we can move FORWARD. But without being able to even TALK to her, it makes it WAY more difficult to know what she wants.

It's been 3 days now with no responses or replies to anything we've sent her way. Texts, facebook messages, etc. This is not typical of her and is why I am wondering what's up.
 
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