Please Help! Boundary Issue

bofish

New member
The short story is been married 15 year. Husband has GF who he sees once a week.

Sex parties are "big" part of GF life. About a year ago my husband and I nogoiated that he would not go to sex parties because they make me really uncomfortable.

We tonight is their night together. I asked were they were going (just casually) and he said a "play party." We decided that was cool because I am fine with SM..but it turns out it IS a sex party.

A couple of things:

1. I feel once again devistated because the GF went behind my back and invited him when she knows it's part of our boundaries. He went along with it, by just saying yes and not finding out where they were going.

2. She says that I am being controling but from reading 100s of posts here, it was my understanding that the primary partner is perfectly in their rights to nogiate what their partner can and can't do. For example, many people don't want their partner to KISS someone before meeting them...are my standards too high? Am I being controling?

3. They invited me (after it all came out) to attend the sex party. I am thinking of doing it so i know what it's like in reality versus my imagination. I am curious and very slightly turned on, but I have had bad experiences with friends doing meth and having orgies. I am also pretty sexually conservative. Frankly, I'm scared and grossed out to go...should I go?

4. GF says she feels secondary. But she wants him to herslef. Doesn't want to be friends with me or our kids...I guess she wants him once a week and as if he's single ie no boundaries or calls from me...

Any advice? The other issue is there is no communication between her and I .. only "she said" from husband. She doesn't WANT to communicate with me. I told husband why didn't they just come to me and talk. Even if I said no, at least we were communicating. But, she prefers to sneak...

Please help for a confused friend!
 
You can't set boundaries on her, but you can definitely talk to your husband. If you set these boundaries as part of your negotiations with him, he should abide by them or re-negotiate with you regardless of her desires. Their relationship is not yours and your relationship is not hers. You can't tell them how to run their relationship and she can't invalidate your negotiations with him. I doubt the sex parties include meth, so I would encourage you to check one out for yourself, but only if you are ready. Leave out she said stuff. His relationship with you is between you and the two of you need to discuss this. Trust is very important, and you need to trust him to hold to your negotiations regardless of outside influence. He needs to trust that he can come to you and have a rational discussion if he wants to renegotiate. I suggest you talk to him about how important this is and how you feel so you can work it out between you.
 
On points 2 and 4, yes, in my opinion you're sticking your nose in where it's not needed.
2. She says that I am being controling but from reading 100s of posts here, it was my understanding that the primary partner is perfectly in their rights to nogiate what their partner can and can't do
You are perfectly within your rights to ask, but he is within his to say no and you certainly don't get to dictate what she should find acceptable.
4. GF says she feels secondary. But she wants him to herslef. Doesn't want to be friends with me or our kids...I guess she wants him once a week and as if he's single ie no boundaries or calls from me...
Why can't you allow them one night per week without interference? Do you interrupt their dates often? If so, why on earth would you expect her to find such behaviour reasonable? Would you, if the situation were reversed?
 
sex parties

I asked him not to go...he agreed to that. He told her he didn't want to go. She persisted. She went behind my back asking him to another "sex party" he assumed it was a SM party.

I don't interrupt their dates. Of course that is 100 percent fair. What she means is that she doesn't want me to ask him not to go to sex party because she feels that is controlling her time. However, it is something I requested and he agreed to.
 
In that case it needs to be between her and your husband, who may be exacerbating the problem by the way he explains things.

Once the two of you have agreed to something he needs to take equal ownership of it. Does he say "I won't go to sex parties with you", or "My wife says I can't go to sex parties with you"? The former makes it something that is what he will or won't do by his own volition. The latter sets you up as a controlling bad guy by sidestepping the fact that he agreed to the situation himself. If he's taking the second option he needs to re-think his wording.
 
Stop the focus on her. Focus on him, and what he is doing. It is responsability to convey to anyone he is with what HE, as an adult, has decided not to do.

Talk to you husband. Get him to initiate some kind of contact between the two of you. Metamours should be able to at least talk to each other. also, communication is so much easier when your husband does not have to to all this message-carrrying.

Go to at least one sex party, just as someone watching. See for yourself what it is like. You can take your husband with you if you like, or someone else you trust. Be curious; it you don't like it, why? This may help you with your arguments should you contiue to veto him not freqnenting these parties.

Consider how your husband's girlfriend can be included in your life. Is that what she wants? Or does she want more time with him alone? How can it be arranged? What are you willing to do to open up your heart and home to her - and vice verca?
 
Butch has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MURF.

He has no say about what we do, what we do, and so on.

IMO butt out of their relationship.
 
She as the primary has the right to negotiate with him things she does not want him to to, generally. It is not like she goes to sexparties with him herself, but does not want his girlfriend to go with him! :cool: He as an adult have the right to say; I don't agree with that. In this case he has agreed to something, then by defoult (not checking which party they would attend) breaking the rules. It is clear that he in reality does not value the agreement he himself made :eek:. That is problematic in itself! Maybe he breaks the rule because it is not fair, or because it was hard to keep. Then it is his own responsablity to go to her and say; Ok. I broke the rule, I am sorry. Things seem to not work smoothly, should we go over our rules again? How can we make rules that are workable when I am with girlfriend? And - if ever - girlfriend is moving towards being more than secondary; what rules can apply then? With two primary girls, who would make the rules? would there be rules? :rolleyes:

ps; I am in the process of getting a second primary, and that is not easy. It is like stepping into unknown waters. I have been used to having a sor-of-secondary for years and I imagined I would find another, I could not imagine even wanting to live with anyone but my husband. Life is scary, sometimes, it gives out challenges. The best of luck with yours :)
 
Hi

Dagferi,

Butch and Murf sound like two equal relationships...so you don't agree with boundaries, fluid-bonding, and other such stuff for secondary relationships? I liken going sex parties to this.

I maybe should go to the party, But I feel very sex negative, not positive. My experiences of sex in my life have largely been tied to parents abandoning me for lovers, friends dying of hIV, a best friend being a domestic abuse victim... I have had no role models for 'healthy' sex.

My husband going to a sex party makes me feel bad and alienated from him and not wanting to fuck him in a relationship that already is sexually tentative at best. I don't really want people who hang out at sex parties around my kids.

I WANT to view sex parites as OK, but i just don't. It's not a moral reaction, it's a visceral one.

Also, the primary issue is WE made an agreemnt, they both disrespected it. I feel worthless.
 
Doesn't want to be a primary

she doesn't want to be a primary. She has made it clear that she only wants to be "friendly" with me, and have no relationship with our kids. She wants her own partner and to keep seeing my husband once a week indefinitely.
 
Also, the primary issue is WE made an agreemnt, they both disrespected it. I feel worthless.
Your agreements are with him, not with her. If he's not sticking with them then yes, it's a problem. You need to remember though that it's a problem you have with him, not a problem you have with her. Don't try to fix it by trying to change their relationship (ie being controlling), fix it by working on your own relationship with him and making sure he sticks to what he says (ie expecting him to act like an adult).

Again, it's up to him to make sure he sticks to your agreements while he's with his girlfriend. It's not up to you to make sure she sticks to them for him.
 
Butch and Murf sound like two equal relationships...so you don't agree with boundaries, fluid-bonding, and other such stuff for secondary relationships? I liken going sex parties to this.

Yes I have 2 equal relationships. I have since day one. I do not treat others like second class. The only people whose needs come above all others are my minor children.

The only boundaries I enforce are ones over myself. I have been fluid bonded with both men since May of 2012. My body my decision. I kept Butch informed of my decisions and allowed him to make his own choice.

.
 
Be careful not to use the word "boundaries" to thinly veil what are actually "rules."

Boundaries are only about you and how people treat you. Lying to your husband and tricking him into going to a sex party is not a violation of your boundaries. They may be a violation of his, but then send him here to get advice about how to deal with his girlfriend. It's not your place.

If your husband agreed not go to sex parties, and then he was tricked into going to a sex party, then it's his responsibility to say "You tricked me, this is a sex party, I'm going home." Problem solved. If he didn't leave, then your problem is with him breaking the agreement, not his girlfriend lying to him.

Asking your partner not to do certain behaviours when they're not around you has nothing to do with primary privileges or boundaries. It's about control. There are exceptions where those behaviours pose a risk to your personal health and safety, such as unprotected sex or problem gambling. But just going to a sex party does not put your personal safety at risk.

That being said, some partners choose to give control over certain aspects of their life by making agreements to things that they may not be thrilled about. My husband has agreed not to use his credit card for anything but hotels when he's working out of town. He doesn't like it, but he agreed because he acknowledges that I know more about managing money that he does, and my track record with the savings account speaks for itself.

We don't need to be enthusiastic about the activities our partners pursue in their own free time. I don't need to love the fact that my husband gets drunk with his coworkers to unwind and male-bond after a week's worth of 16 hour work shifts. But he's an adult and he gets to make his own choices and be responsible for his own behaviour. I respect his autonomy and I trust him not to make poor decisions. If you don't feel the same way about your own husband, then why are you with him?

Regarding #4, that's completely her right. She's not dating you and she's not parenting your kids. She has no obligation to any of you. If she just wants time with your husband and not the rest of the package, and he's happy to have it that way, then you need to accept that. If she only sees him once a week, why do you need to phone him during that time? Real emergencies aside, surely it can wait until he gets home?
 
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First, let me say scheduling your husband to go to a sex party when she knew of your agreement with your husband was not cool, and your husband should have a bone to pick with her.

However...

Controlling someone else's behavior to sooth one's insecurities is like putting a compound fracture in a sling and calling it good. It may make it feel better, but you'll never be able to experience full use.

If you reread your post and change "people who go to sex parties" to "black people" or "gay people" or "people with red hair" or "people with blue eyes", is this still an acceptable prejudice?

Is it acceptable for you to say you don't want men who have sex with men around your children? I understand you have had bad experiences in the past, but to pass judgement on any group of people based on what someone else has done is just plain wrong.

And to build that prejudice as a condition for someone to be in a relationship with you is wrong too.
 
Sex parties

I think comparing people who go to sex parties to black and gay people is a damn tall order LOL. And one that most of the population couldn't fufill!

It's not a moral issue - like they are going to hell! or some shit - as a vicersal, emotional one. For example, I wouldn't want my kids growing up going to sex parties. I just don't think it's a skillful way to relate to people. ONLY my opinion.

Unfortuately, my experiences are not just "a few bad ones." Everyone in my life since childhood has had negative sexual issues - which vary from being left alone at age 8 in the living room while mom fucked boyfriend to one friend dying of HIV and another being a sex/method addict. Unfortunately, these things stay in your body.

I couldn't have an orgasm til over 40!

I WANT to be sex positive. I want to be open. If anyone has any ideas of how to feel that way in light of being taught the opposite since early age - please share them! How do I begin to heal from all this negativity ?
 
Therapy. You won't get there without it. All the self-help books, support from friends, or random advice from strangers on the internet won't help without therapy. If you have a bad history with sex, then you absolutely need professional help to explore the issues that are specific to your own life.

Anything short of therapy will be "most common problems" or "best guess" or "one size fits all" advice. Only a therapist can help you get to the core of what's specifically bothering you and show you how to deal with your own personal demons.

Preferably one who specializes in sexual trauma.
 
The only boundaries I enforce are ones over myself. I have been fluid bonded with both men since May of 2012. My body my decision. I kept Butch informed of my decisions and allowed him to make his own choice.

.
Actually...this is not the best example of that we all make individual decitions. Fluent bonding boundries is THE example of how what another person do, directly affect YOU (and others in the chain), hence ultimately the choices made a joint enterprise. If your fluent bonding partner should fuck someone else without protection (and not telling) and bring home STD's, you can get them, even HIV. They can make someone pregnant, bringing a child into your life. The Bible talks about being one flesh. As fluent-bondedness go, that is close to the medical truth...
 
Why would you expect someone who doesn't think to tell you they've had unprotected sex to follow a rule telling them not to?

Edit: Perhaps you've misunderstood Dagferi to mean that she doesn't care if her partners have unprotected sex without telling her. I'd suggest her meaning is more along the lines that (short of following them 24 hours a day) she can't stop anyone from doing anything with anyone else, but she can stop them doing it with her. Therefore, if her partner chooses to have unprotected sex elsewhere they are also choosing to stop having it with her.
 
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From page 1.

What your husband does with how girlfriend isn't your business. What you said about STDs has no relevance to this issue whatsoever. Wear condoms with other people is a reasonable rule, not don't go where I don't want you to. He's an idiot for agreeing, but I know that people who are consistently were down by controlling and possessive partners end up agreeing to do things that they have no intention of sticking to just to shut them up. Let them do what they want to do, you let your morals and sex negativity dictate your sex life, not impede on anyone else's.
 
From Page 2

You have multiple psychological issues surrounding sex and it isn't fair to project your issues onto innocent people. You get your head sorted out in therapy and leave them be. Stop pressuring your husbands girlfriend to be part of your family life. She isn't interested in that. Back off.

Spend time with sex positive people and stop using examples of drug addicts to equate with the bad things that happen with sex. If I told you how many men I've had sex with, you would shudder. But I use condoms with partners who are not regulars and have monthly screens for STDs. Never had an STD. Not even BV.

So go to your husband and his girlfriend, tell them that you realise you have no business controlling what they do in their time together. You realise that you have a unreasonable and irrational view of sex and you're working on it but in The meantime, you'll leave them to have the relationship they want to without your influence. Ask that your husband uses condoms with other people and reassure his girlfriend that as long as you can be civil, you'll stop pressuring her to involve herself with your family.
 
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