The Need to Be the Best (Seeking Advice)

Quintrue

New member
Hello, friends.

I'm involved in a newly formed triangle with my monogamous girlfriend of 3+ years, and a new love who is poly (T).

T is also newly poly and has been involved with another man (B) outside our triangle who is monogamous and not accustomed to, or ready to accept, that T is poly. B would rather remain ignorant of T's relationship with me and is currently going with the denial strategy. (Good luck with that, B!)

My problem is that I recently asked T how the sex was with B. Her response was that it was "mindblowingly amazing." Now, I have no problem with T being involved with others. I am not jealous in this way and accept that she is poly like me and free to pursue other loves. But when she told me how good the sex was with B, I felt sort of second-best. She told me that I'm also great and it's just different with me, but I felt like I was being lovingly told that I was good, but B is better. She says that her sexual connection with B is very raw, lustful and high-energy, whereas I am slower and more sensual. My connection with T is definitely good and we have good sex and connect in a deep way during sex, but... I find myself plagued with feeling this silly competitive need to be better, or at least as good as B at sexually pleasing T. I am torturing myself by imagining them having this wild, raw sex and her having a dozen orgasms and being ravenously into B in ways that she isn't with me.

T loves me and loves the deep, spiritual connection that she doesn't get with B. And that makes me feel good. It should be enough for me, I know, but I feel inadequate. I am depressed that I can't inspire that same level of physical/sexual passion and lust that B brings out in her, and that maybe I don't have as much energy or stamina as he does.

I'm a bit disappointed with myself that this is bothering me so much. I thought I had more emotional discipline but seem to have found a weakness. I want to see the same kind of lust and raw passion in T that she seems to have with B. I want to satisfy her as much as B does. Does anyone have any wisdom for me about my need to be the best? I would be immensely grateful... thanks!

-Quin
 
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It sounds like she has already told you that you satisfy her just as much as B. does, but you are refusing to believe her. You just have to get over the idea that "different" means better or worse - or that raw and animal-like sex is superior to connected, tender lovemaking. Each has its own kind of energy, purpose, and appeal, and satisfies specific needs in a person. Even wild sex can be boring if that's all you ever get. Let go of the need to compete. When thoughts like that come up, do not pay credence to them. Get present in a real and physical and way, such as focusing your attention on something in front of you, sounds, colors, tasks at hand, or some kind of manual work. Get out of your head and into your body and the present moment. Eventually those thoughts become part of the wallpaper and won't bother you.

In future, be careful what information you ask her for. You're obviously not a voyeur with the sort of objectivity that can turn you on if you hear what your partners are up to. Why did you want to know what sex is like with her other lover?
 
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D'ope! I see nycindie beat me to the punch. But I concur with what she said.

Re (from OP):
"I recently asked T how the sex was with B. Her response was that it was 'mindblowingly amazing.'"

Ah, but: she didn't say it was "better than it is with you." Some sex blows the mind. Other sex soothes the soul. See the difference? Comparing the two is like comparing apples with oranges.

In my perspective, we live in a rather porn-flooded world, where "hot and heavy" are the only values that "matter" in sex. We're all tempted to think we're not a "bomb in bed" unless our bomb is blinding and deafening. A fizzling shower of pretty colors just doesn't seem to be worth as much in bed.

Re:
"I am torturing myself by imagining them having this wild, raw sex and her having a dozen orgasms and being ravenously into B in ways that she isn't with me."

Which raises the notion that "(X+1) orgasms is [always] better than (X) orgasms." I mean what does (X+1) have to equal before it's *too much?* For a bit of perspective, my partner Snowbunny and I used to go pretty hot and heavy in the bedroom back in our NRE days. I used to be quite pleased with myself about how many times I could get her to climax during one encounter. But one day she admitted to me that even though orgasms are great, after awhile they get to be overwhelming and she would prefer more of an easygoing kind of encounter where one or two orgasms sufficed. I learned to take it down a notch.

So what I am trying to say is that "The Best" doesn't always equal "The Hottest." Sometimes it equals "The Gentlest." Why not? One of the best things about polyamory is the variety it brings into our lives. I mean if you were like B (in bed), then T would have two B's, and I don't think she wants two B's. I think she wants one B, and one you. She wants the best of both worlds.

So I encourage you to not try to imitate (then outdo) B. Instead, practice and refine the unique techniques that make you the kind of lover that B could never be. Focus on your strengths -- not on B's strengths.

I realize that knowing all of that intellectually doesn't always mean you'll be able to feel it emotionally. But thought can precede -- and pave the way for -- emotion. Practice thinking from a certain point of perspective and see if your feelings don't eventually catch up with your thoughts.

That's how I see it anyways. I hope it helps you in your situation in some small way.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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I rather thought it looked like two identical posts, just laid out in two different styles. I love it when a plan comes together ...
 
Wow, thank you both so much. I wasn't expecting such quality posts in such a short quantity of time. Quality/quantity does seem to be a problem for me here doesn't it? :)

You both make fantastic points and I already feel a bit better about things. Of course, like you said, Kevin, it takes time for the intellectual understanding of things to transfer into the emotional self. I think I'll ultimately be OK with this and the understanding will be fully integrated in time. For now, it is still a bit difficult whipping my silly ego back into its cage. Silly ego...

I guess I want to be able to be everything, which I know is contrary to the very idea of polyamoury. I know that I cannot be everything, nor do I expect anyone else to be everything for me. I'm trying to reverse situations here and think of the things that I don't get from T, that I get from my other girlfriend or perhaps past lovers. Nobody has it all, that's for sure. I do need to focus on quality instead of quantity and remind myself of my strengths.

Nycindie, the very first sentence you wrote is definitely something that's sinking in. She has told me the ways in which she appreciates me and connects with me in a special way. And the thing is, I'm confident about that and know I have a special, uncommon kind of love to offer. I will work on letting go of my need to compete.

To answer your question, I asked her how the sex was with B due just a strong curiosity I suppose. I like to know as much as possible about as much as possible and I guess in this case feel the need to measure myself against others to get a sense of where I'm at and how valued I am. If the answer is "He's good, but not as good as you," then I feel a confidence boost and feel good about myself. And I guess if the answer leads me to believe that he is "better" than me, then I am forced to deal with an ugly emotional dragon that hopefully I can become strong enough to slay. I guess I am now in that process of bringing myself to a greater level of emotional strength and acceptance about this.

I will be coming back to both of your wise words. You are both awesome, thank you!
 
. . . I asked her how the sex was with B due just a strong curiosity I suppose. I like to know as much as possible about as much as possible and I guess in this case feel the need to measure myself against others to get a sense of where I'm at and how valued I am. If the answer is "He's good, but not as good as you," then I feel a confidence boost and feel good about myself. And I guess if the answer leads me to believe that he is "better" than me, then I am forced to deal with an ugly emotional dragon that hopefully I can become strong enough to slay. I guess I am now in that process of bringing myself to a greater level of emotional strength and acceptance about this.

I suspected that the real reason you wanted to know was so you could hear he is lousy in bed (and maybe you secretly wish she would dump him because of that?).

To me, what you wrote above indicates self-esteem issues. You wanted to use information about another person to either bolster or beat yourself up. One makes you temporarily feel like you matter to someone and have worth; the other gives you reason to believe you don't matter, don't have worth, but motivates you to overcome it. Neither tactic is productive, nor based on anything other than someone else's description of a person you don't know - so why measure yourself against that? This is probably a survival mechanism or habit you developed in childhood - time to let that go. We can't drive a car forward only looking in the rear-view mirror.

There's a saying: if you want self-esteem, do esteemable things. Cultivate a need to be your own personal best rather than besting someone else. Be there for yourself, and for others, take care of what needs taking care of, and one day, what other people are doing won't ruffle you because you will know you have value and worth, and that your place in this world does matter, without needing anyone else's shortcomings to prove it to you.
 
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NYC, why are we posting in tandem? :eek: Weirdness ...

@ Quin ... glad to help. My personal vote is that if you and B could be compared (as lovers), you would come out tied. Neither of you is "The Best." You're both "the best at what you do."

If your goal is to examine/improve your bedroom technique, then I suggest asking T directly if there's anything you could do better and what that might be. That way you're not comparing yourself with B, you're just giving T a chance to give you some guidance (if she so desires). If she says, "Hon, you're already just what I want," then woo-hoo! Question answered and the news is all good.

And feel some compersion for how much she enjoys her time with B! Go ahead, feel that compersion. It's hot that she gets so carried away with him. It's even hotter how much she loves it with you. Polyamory rocks. :)

Warm regards,
Kevin T.
 
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I have vastly *different* sex with Guy from what I have with Hubby. Hubby leans toward sensual, lots of foreplay, relaxing, snuggle before and after kind of sex. He also has it in his head that because of past trauma, I'm emotionally "breakable" in bed. (To be fair, I have had flashbacks a few times during sex with him.) Hubby and I also share a household, raise my kids together, and have a lot of other stuff going on besides sex.

And Hubby tends to be pretty conservative sexually; his point of view is "If it works to get her off this time, it will work the next thousand times" rather than "This worked this time, I wonder what else will work?" On the other hand, at one point last year he discovered his inner Dom, and I've always identified as submissive, so on occasion we go that way.

Guy spent some time as a BDSM switch, and sexually is very open, nonjudgmental, and unwilling to be fit into anything in particular. He's happy with sensual and tender, but he's also happy giving it rough or receiving it rough (not BDSM rough, because Hubby has asked me not to do anything BDSM-ish with anyone else; just leaves bruises and breathlessness rough). We rarely see each other, so when we are together, we tend to sexually make up for lost time, and it can become very intense, "hot monkey sex" as a friend of mine puts it.

Guy also knows about my past trauma, and I have had one flashback with him, but he knows that isn't a reason to treat me like I'm fragile especially when I vastly enjoy rough sex. The flashbacks or panic attacks happen when I try to do something outside my comfort zone or put myself in a position where I feel like I have no choice about what I'm about to do; being held down or having my ass smacked or something like that is well within the comfort zone. The occasions when Hubby puts on his Dom hat are the only time I can operate outside my comfort zone without having issues, because I'm not me being afraid of what my husband will think or do, I'm submissive handing over my trust and control to my Dom, knowing I can stop it at any time and knowing I'll get the control back at the end. And, because of that past trauma and the possibility of issues arising, I have a safe word with each of them that applies no matter what kind of sex we're having.

Sorry... sidetrack.

Sex with Guy is not *better* than sex with Hubby. Sometimes I like the slow and sensual. When I'm in a bad headspace, the predictability of sex with Hubby is welcome and needed. When I'm in a mood where I want to just let go and enjoy and not have emotions and "Are you all right" involved, Guy's roughness and unpredictability allows me to do that. Sexually, both of them are equally good at meeting my needs and desires; they just don't always meet the *same* needs and desires as each other.

Which is one of the reasons I have both of them...
 
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NYC, why are we posting in tandem? :eek: Weirdness ...

@ Quin ... glad to help. My personal vote is that if you and B could be compared (as lovers), you would come out tied. Neither of you is "The Best." You're both "the best at what you do."

Love it! And so true!! I have two different partners and both have their very own unique style. Both are best at what they do!

B could very well ask T how sex is with you and she could say it's "blissfully tantric!" Hey, tantra can, many times, be better than mindblowingly raw. :D

Both are good. One of my favorite foods is spaghetti but that doesn't mean I want it all the time and it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the utter deliciousness of curry on other occasions. Both meet my needs and both are yummy!
 
It is a good thing to understand that each person can bring their own unique flare to any task, including sex. It's the "we are all unique snowflakes" approach to dealing with insecurity.

However, this doesn't really address your apparent need to compete to be better at sex than your metamour (your girlfriends boyfriend), it just creates a subroutine to keep the emotions from running over you. The problem I have with this solution is, what happens if their love making changes over time and becomes the "gentle and connected" approach? Will the "I am a unique snowflake" approach work then? What if their connection is so deep that she almost cries when merely describing it? The thing you were clinging to as your uniqueness will then become the knife that stabs you.

I would get used to the idea that some people really are better at some things than others and that this is perfectly ok. We don't need to excel in some other field in order to compete with them... they're just better at a particular thing than we are, period. As others here have said, the problem comes up when we depend on an external source for our sense of worth. When this sense of worth is coming from an internal source (your opinion about yourself, your views, and your actions) the issue of whether or not someone is better at a task than you are becomes irrelevant. This is the foundation of healthy self-esteem.

So, there's no harm in using the unique snowflake approach as a bandaid, but I would recommend against confusing it with the solution to the actual issue you are having.
 
Good point Marcus ... though I have to say, (hypothetical) acceptance of the possibility that "B is better in bed," kind of shifts the unique snowflake paradigm to a wider range of traits and activities. So maybe Quin's strong point is heavy conversations that extend into the wee hours, or maybe his strong point is throwing a great party, or taking T out to have some fun on the town, or cooking a wicked meal, or working magic on the car, or creating a relaxed and happy setting at home with a movie and popcorn ... or whatever. In each of those cases, we're still saying, "Well maybe B is especially good at one thing (sex), whereas Quin is especially good at other things (besides sex)." What happens if we discover that B is "The Best" at *everything?* Not that such a discovery would be likely, just asking for the sake of the question's hypothetical value.

So then I think that the most important point is, it's often not healthy to compare ourselves with "the other guy" at all, but rather, that we set personal goals based on our own personal performance as we perceive it. And since the topic at hand is, "How well do we do at showing T a good time," then it must also be important to ask T what she enjoys the most and what (if anything) she'd like to see more of.

It's complicated because people are such multifaceted packages of talents and virtues. If B turned out to be "2nd place in bed," that wouldn't mean T wouldn't still want sex with B. I think she'd still want it because it's still unique and it's still him. T doesn't just want "two lovers;" she wants two men -- two complete individuals (just as they are). I think that makes sense ...
 
This is some overwhelmingly excellent stuff. I'm glad as hell I joined this forum and reached out to the community. Man, poly people are intelligent folks, and generous to reach back to a stranger newbie with such detailed insight :)

I suppose I do suffer from some self-esteem issues. I am mostly happy with who I am, but I think I put a lot of pressure on myself to be totally awesome in all categories and am stressing myself out trying to achieve this. I have weaknesses and need to be patient with myself working on them and not expect myself to be the best at something as immediately as it's required of me.

With respect to the notion that some people are just better at things, I think I can relate with that. If you reduce the sexual experience of B and T to a simple "task" of "who can go the hardest for the longest with the most intensity" then perhaps I would have to concede that B is in fact better at that task. But the question is, does that make the sex more enjoyable for T? The answer would likely be "Sometimes." But even if she prefers the hot monkey sex over the slow and erotic sex 4 out of 5 times... I am still the #1 choice for at least some of the time.

And of course sexual connections are dynamic and T's connection with both B and myself will inevitably evolve. Both connections are still young. Maybe my connection with T will evolve in such a way that we're having the hot monkey sex too sometimes. And maybe beneath that, there will still be our foundation of the deep, sensual and spiritual connection that we share.

Feeling mostly better about this now, and I can't thank you all enough for your insights. Clearly this is an awesome community of some enlightened individuals :)
 
So then I think that the most important point is, it's often not healthy to compare ourselves with "the other guy" at all, but rather, that we set personal goals based on our own personal performance as we perceive it.

Right, an internal source of self-esteem will likely be healthier in the long term and will provide a more stable sense of worth.

Shifting to a wider array of qualities, "well I'm better than them at X, at least" is an inferior source of self-esteem. It's a valuable tool in the short term, don't get me wrong, but it shouldn't be confused as actually addressing the insecurity at hand.
 
The first thing that jumped out at me is that you only seem to really value the things that you're only good at. If it's something you're both good at, it doesn't seem to.mean as much to you.
 
I tend to be a competitive person in general - good in school, fairly driven at work, the whole deal. It's been beneficial in those situations, but really NOT beneficial at all in this type of relationship.

The way this manifests (for me) is that when I see/hear something my metamour is doing for my partner, I want to do it too. He likes it, I should do it. It'd make me a better partner to do everything he likes, right? Well... no, not really. It makes me less "me" and more "her" and what he really wants out of a relationship with me is... me.

I've basically asked to stop seeing her gooshier Facebook posts to him, since I want to compete there by being just as gooshy, but it's not me and just feels weird and unnatural. I don't even ask about their sex life. I know they're loud, that's about it (based on complaints by the neighbors). ;) I don't want to get wrapped up in THAT type of competitive cycle.

Our relationship is ours. Based on that alone, it's a damned good one, and there's no need to change anything based on outside circumstances. It stands or falls on its own merit, and after a while, it does feel pretty good to just be able to be you and not worry about what other people are doing. :)
 
Thanks YouAreHere, it's good to hear from someone with the competitive problem that I have. You seem to have adapted a strategy that works well for you, that's awesome. I'm aiming to get where you're at with being comfortable not knowing certain details and understanding that I provide a valuable connection that stands on its own. I've been feeling a bit of my strength coming back in the past 24 hours. My shields were really knocked down by not only discovering the information about my metamour's sexual performance, but other events in my personal life. Interesting how if you're hit with something during a moment of weakness, your emotional and spiritual zen can dissolve and bring you back to cave-man level for a bit :)

I feel sort of embarrassed that this is an issue. I mean, talk about first-world problems. "Boo-hoo, one of my two girlfriends who both love me dearly might be getting some more energetic sex than I can provide." It's helpful to remind myself that there are people out there who feel lucky to have a bag of rice to feed their family, while I gripe about my concerns over sexual inadequacy. It's a great thing to have the love of 2 people, my health, and everything I need to live comfortably.

Gratitude... it always helps.
 
Absolutely -- rejoice in the half of the glass that is full.

Re (from YouAreHere):
"He likes it, I should do it. It'd make me a better partner to do everything he likes, right? Well ... no, not really. It makes me less 'me' and more 'her' and what he really wants out of a relationship with me is ... me."

Nicely stated.
 
Honestly the way I explain it is that I honestly can't compare Hubby with Boyfriend it is truly apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. There totally different people. And I'm quite happy with that and love them both. The sexual side is even more impossible to compare with the two of them! They are nothing alike in that regard. And I love that! Nether one is "better". They are both amazing, just in there own ways.

I am very lucky that both of my guys are fine with that. And IMO I think it helps that they know I am NOT comparing them to each other.
 
...It's a great thing to have the love of 2 people, my health, and everything I need to live comfortably.

Gratitude... it always helps.

Yes!... sometimes when we are wrapped up in the microcosm of our own minds, taking the wider view can help us see how incredibly fortunate we are...
 
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