Still too confused

Altea

New member
I wrote some time ago about my situation http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8436

I made research on how to deal with problems and well, obviously I found two keywords: talking with each other and setting some ground rules.

I spoke with my bf about our expectations. And I ended up even more confused than before we talked :(

I said that I approve of polyamory not only as triad but also as a vee (or other configurations) if he wants as long as I can keep friendly with my eventuall metamours and he with his (I didn't want to make huge boundries but I just can't imagine a situation when I and an eventuall metamour would fight each other or very dislike each other, it would feel bad)
Then I said that I know, he has issues with sex and that I am open to try swinging if that is what he really desires.

He said he likes the idea of both polyamory and swinging which is fine with me.

I said only, which is true and I guess it will be hard to change for me, that I don't want to have what I call 'an open relatinship'. I said that I don't want us to date someone who the other side wouldn't at least like somehow, and that also getting to know new people just for one-night stands is something I don't approve of.
I don't know if this is much, or normal. I just know that these are the limits for me now, because I still have problems trusting him after all the bad things he had said to me in the past.

At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me. He said that he feels that I will chain him to me and not let him be himself. He added that it is limiting to him that I would like to know and like the persons he is dating/sleeping with (although he knows that among the many people we both know (about 150) there are only 3 girls I don't get along with and that because they started fighting with me. I am usually very friendly towards others as long as tey are fair.

I said that I don't know how it will be in the future. That I have some limits now and that I hope he will respect then and later on they will probably change. But the thing that I have to at leas a bit like his other girls will for sure never change (as I wrote before I can't imagine such a situation can be good). Of course the same would go for me- he would have to like the peopole I would want to get involved with. But he said that he is afraid that it won't work and that nothing will change.

And again I felt lost and alone and confused. Cause I know I'm not ready to give him now all the freedom he wants but I realy, realy want to give him what he wants in the future (except this one thing that I don't want him to be dating people I heve myself never ever met or people I get along very bad), but I just need his help to gain each others trust again, and that's something he just won't understad and what he is afraid of :(
 
Is he on here? It sounds like he could benefit from reading up, maybe participating.

Take a breath for a second. It sounds like the two of you are scared of what happens next; you because he could dive in and he because he thinks you'll hold him back. All valid, but not neceassirly true and even if it might be, I don't think it wise to hold someone back or jump in.

There is lots of time. Both of you would be wise to take the time to get used to the notion of change before making changes. You might find you can give more than you think when the time comes and if trust is built and he might find that going out and obtaining this so far unobtainable life is worth waiting for and building on slowly and so as not to destroy what he has with you.

Its all such a balancing act and the one thing that helps people get used to that is taking the time you have and going over every detail, scenario, every bit of information you can get your hands on and then realizing that you won't really know until you try something.
 
At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me. He said that he feels that I will chain him to me and not let him be himself. He added that it is limiting to him that I would like to know and like the persons he is dating/sleeping with (although he knows that among the many people we both know (about 150) there are only 3 girls I don't get along with and that because they started fighting with me. :(

It sounds like your boyfriend has a bad case of "give and inch, take a mile". If he demands everything at once and offers you an ultimatum, I'd say he needs to look at how committed he is to your relationship. If he feels that trapped he should move on and stop laying guilt trips on you. Sorry to sound negative but this kind of thing reeks of selfishness and childish impatience.
 
It sounds like your boyfriend has a bad case of "give and inch, take a mile". If he demands everything at once and offers you an ultimatum, I'd say he needs to look at how committed he is to your relationship. If he feels that trapped he should move on and stop laying guilt trips on you. Sorry to sound negative but this kind of thing reeks of selfishness and childish impatience.

Agreed.

I am someone who gets rather annoyed with people trying to corner me 'their way'. However, if you are invested in someone, then you give people the time they need to adjust in the beginning. You do not seem to be asking anything unreasonable, while he seems to want it 'all' now. Maybe he needs to see it from another point of view.

Also,..are you sure you both have the same definition for the terms you are using ? What you define as a 'open relationship'...is also what he defines ?
 
There does seem to be some confusion here. It sounds like you have agreed to lots already, so what has made him think that you will renege on your initial agreement? Have said that you will do something in the past and then changed your mind? I can't help but think his anxiety about your not following through is related to some other issue.

Great idea to make sure you both are in agreement about what is meant by open, swinging, poly; every new word should be clarified I think, just so you are on the same page.
 
Great idea to make sure you both are in agreement about what is meant by open, swinging, poly; every new word should be clarified I think, just so you are on the same page.

I have discovered even "old" words may also need further clarification.:p
 
At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me.
[...]
And again I felt lost and alone and confused. Cause I know I'm not ready to give him now all the freedom he wants but I realy, realy want to give him what he wants in the future (except this one thing that I don't want him to be dating people I heve myself never ever met or people I get along very bad), but I just need his help to gain each others trust again, and that's something he just won't understad and what he is afraid of :(
[I've also read your first thread, and] I'm afraid that I agree with Mono and SourGirl: this bf of yours seems to be manipulating you - trying to make you feel guilty for
a) his ex-girlfriend's jealousy and for her decision to walk out on him (and you).
b) your asking him for quite reasonable things. (He tries to persuade you that what you're asking for isn't reasonable.)
c) the relationship not working.

He seems so negative about everything that I'm not sure that you'll have a healthy relationship. (Unless he starts to get positive and also to work on his problems instead of believing them to be your problems.) You're willing to make compromises, agree to polyamory or swinging (or a bit of both), whichever he's happiest with... and he says that he sees you as his enemy, and "when he was angry he started shouting at me that he will go and have sex with other girls" (i.e. use the threat of having sex with others as a way to punish you)???!!!

Sharing the same hobbies and religion isn't enough. If he doesn't learn to respect you, you're going to have a tough ride ALL the way. Every time something goes wrong, it'll be your fault.

This sentence - from your first post - scares me:
He always talked abot how much he wants sex with girls who wanted him but hated me, and said they have the right to hate me but I don't have the right to hate them, and he also said he can have sex with whomever he wants to even if that means that I will suffer or be laughed at by those girls.
but maybe I'm not understanding what you (or he) mean. Does this mean that there are certain girls that he wants sex with and that he's not going to stop wanting that just because they hate you? Or does it means that - for him - it's an added attraction that the girls want him but hate you?

If the second is true, it means that he wants you to "suffer or be laughed at by those girls". In that case, if I were you, I would walk away and not look back.

Believe me, it's easier to find somebody who loves you than to turn somebody who hates and disrespects you into somebody who loves you.
 
If he is at all interested I would love to hear his side. Its so easy to be on the side of the person who posts, but I like to remember there are always two sides of every story. It takes two to have a relationship. Generally people have a reason people behave a certain way. I'm curious to know what is going on for him.
 
Sorry for not writing for such a long time, but I had no access to the internet.

Thanks for so many replies.

Redpepper- No, he is not here. I also thought it would be good for him to do some reading. I mentioned to him, that I write here sometimes and do research, but he seems not to be willing to participate here on his own. Though he likes me to tell him what I have found out.

I know we need time. Time and talking. But time seems to be something that makes him freak out. He says that he has been waiting already for quite a long time and that he feels pressure.

Mono- I guess you're right. But on the other hand I sometimes also tend to have my moments of demanding too much at once. And I also freak out sometimes and make ultimatum-like statements. It's hard for us making small steps. Maybe because we are both impatient and bad-tempered.

SourGirl- Maybe it will sound funny but before I started to talk with him about what we want and expect I started a more theorethical discussion. We both said what we understand under what terms and settled our definitions of 'poly' 'open' and 'swing'. And also I made him acquaint of some poly dynamics (V, N, triad and so on) so that we could precisely say what we have in mind both as our ideals and our limits.

Redpepper agian-At first when we met we both said that monogamious relationships are not for us. Then that whole situation with his ex gf occured. She started to be mad at him because of me (though they both agreed they will have other relationships besides of their and she had another bf by then she didn't wanted him to have any other girl besides her). That made him lose faith in women. He was broken hearted after they broke up and somtimes accused me of him loosing her. I became frightened and insecure because of him insulting me and our quarreling. And all my openness disappeared. And I was starting to be jealous becouse I didn't feel all that affection and stability I nedded. So yes, in some sense I have changed my mind, though I knew it wasn't permanent. I just wanted to be monogamious for the time it would take for us to learn to trust each other and settle all the issues we had with ourselfs and our relationship.

MrFarFromRight
- I guess he is manipulating me. But I am also not without fault. Some time ago I really demanded unreasonalbe things but that chnages constantly. He sees that I am changing 'for the better' now but he thinks it's too slow.

He uses some threads. It's also something that scares me. I mean how can I see him sleeping with other women in a positive way if he himself mentions it always a) as a thread b) as something that is mandratory for him and what he values more than our relationship. I mean how can I see it positively when he says it will be either him sleeping with others or our break up? I mean how can I feel comfortable and secure in such a relationship? I said to him that, but he sais that I should know he would not leave me for another girl. but in the same time he says he would live me just to have sex with other girls? And he sais that he wants even sex with girls he wants no relatinship wit and even girls he does not like much but just feels the desire to sleep with? I mean what should I think about it, when he puts it that way?

I don't know what's the case with those girls, who dislike me. But now that you have mentioned it... He desires all the 3 girsl I don't get along with and when I mention some others we both like, as a potential date or sex partner, he seems to be hesistant or just starts saying that it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them.
I never thought of it before but now as you mentioned it it also starts to scary me. It really seems he is always looking for girls he knows I will have a problem with or he knows they with have a problem with me. He does not seem to pay attention to bisexuall girls in any way but only straight of whom he knows they won't ever be sexuall or intimate with me...
It's like I am also thinking of him and he is not thinking of me.

I remember a situation, which took place some time ago when we thought things are good between us(it is awkward to talk about but I guess it will give some clues. I don't know if it will be too intimate but it somethimg I have in mind till now)
We once ended with three of our friend together in bed. So there was I, my bf, S(a lesbian freind of ours), K(a straight male) and P(a straight female). I was having some 'fun' with S and K while my bf was with P. It was all spontanious so it came out K didn't have condoms and I remebered that I and bf had only one so I came to my bf wanting to ask him what to do and mayby make a quick walk to the drugstore to buy some, so we could all be protected. And then I saw he already was using our last one and he said he was so desparete that he had the chance to sleep with another woman besied me that he wasn't thinking about me being protected. And I felt very sad and mad at the time and it all went very bad from that moment. He was angry at me that I was angry that he din't thought of me while I was thinking of both of us.
From that moment I again started to feel insecure becouse he so easily forgot about me and my eventuall needs, and he started to freak out that I did not come to him to solve the 'condom problem' but to stop him from having sex with another woman.

Redpepper one more time. I know there are always two sides. And I know I have definitely made also many mistakes. I don't know if he will want to write something here. But maybe I will ask him if he will do so.
 
Hullo Altea and good to hear from you again!

I have expressed my concern before and I do it again - the two of you, instead of a solid foundation for poly, seem to be engaged in a power struggle. For your bf, 'freedom' seems to be equated with license to go fuck anybody he feels like fucking at the time, and still being able to rely on you as the solid bedrock of his life. This makes me very wary of what his actual motivations for poly are. Right now, it reads that he is coming from a place of scarcity, not of sharing. Whatever he hears you say in what comes to your needs and what you expect from your relationship he automatically hears as 'there goes Altea again, trying to chain me down and stop me from living my life as I like it best'. As long as that tape is what gets played inside his head instead of actually listening to what you say, I see really no way to work on your issues.

I'm a bit at loss at what it is that you mean by 'not wanting monogamy'. Right now it reads that you would want to engage in some form of swinging, whereas he wants a 'no-holds-barred' open relationship. The way you describe him wanting to have sex even with women he does not like to me speaks of some real issues with sex and intimacy. Real freedom, to me, is the ability to choose - being addicted to cheating and sex and power games might masquerade as sexual freedom but in reality is everything but.

Specifically choosing women you have issues with as his sex partners send a clear message of not wanting polyamory. He wants to build distance between the two of you. Would it be beneficial to you to start to treating your bf mentally as a 'secondary'? Give him some of that distance he so craves, and explore connections independently of him. You might discover distance works wonders on your relationship and on your self-image as well.
 
Hi Altea!
Glad to see you back. Don't apologise about not writing for so long, I live in the same situation. (I'm visiting friends just now so have - LUXURY!!! - Internet access several times a day.)
Redpepper one more time. I know there are always two sides. And I know I have definitely made also many mistakes. I don't know if he will want to write something here. But maybe I will ask him if he will do so.
I know this as well. In fact, the #1 theme that runs through all the stories that I write for children is: "There is ALWAYS another way of looking at the same events. And you should always respect the other person's right to think differently from yourself." But it's hard for us to consider his way of seeing this whole relationship if he himself doesn't share it with us.

My comments are to be read as if I believe that you're a decent person who is giving us an honest account of how she sees the situation. It would be clumsy if I prefaced all my remarks with the words: "If this is really true, then..."
I mentioned to him, that I write here sometimes and do research, but he seems not to be willing to participate here on his own. Though he likes me to tell him what I have found out.

I know we need time. Time and talking. But time seems to be something that makes him freak out. He says that he has been waiting already for quite a long time and that he feels pressure.
This sounds very much like he isn't willing to put any of his time or energy into caring for / working on / healing your relationship, but lets you do all that work, and then likes you to keep him up-to-date. Is he a pasha, a sultan, a basza? Does he want you to fan him with ostrich feathers, too?
It's hard for us making small steps. Maybe because we are both impatient and bad-tempered.
If you both want to save the relationship (and make it healthy), you might have to learn to get used to small steps. If your version of things is an accurate portrayal of his lack of:
a) interest in working on the relationship;
b) concern for your feelings;
c) common decency in how he treats you;
d) respect for you or for the other women he fucks...
... then I stand by my earlier advice: you should be making GIANT steps (away from him).
And I was starting to be jealous becouse I didn't feel all that affection and stability I nedded.
I differentiate between "justified jealousy" and "unjustified jealousy". See 2 examples here and here.
MrFarFromRight- I guess he is manipulating me. But I am also not without fault. Some time ago I really demanded unreasonalbe things but that chnages constantly. He sees that I am changing 'for the better' now but he thinks it's too slow.

[many questions, followed by] I mean what should I think about it, when he puts it that way?
Maybe you should consider thinking that he's messing with your mind and with your feelings?

You admit that you are "also not without fault". Does he admit that about himself?
He "sees that I am changing 'for the better' now". Do you see that he is changing... or at least is trying to?

If you "guess he is manipulating me", what are you doing to make sure that he doesn't do so? Or (harsher question): why are you still with him?

I don't know what's the case with those girls, who dislike me. But now that you have mentioned it... He desires all the 3 girsl I don't get along with and when I mention some others we both like, as a potential date or sex partner, he seems to be hesistant or just starts saying that it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them.

It's like I am also thinking of him and he is not thinking of me.
It's like he's not interested in exploring potentially healthy relationships, where there's a chance that everybody will be happy [using the excuse that "it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them"] but is perfectly happy to enter relationships where he knows right from the beginning that you will be miserable.

I remember a situation, [...] it came out K didn't have condoms and I remebered that I and bf had only one so I came to my bf wanting to ask him what to do and mayby make a quick walk to the drugstore to buy some, so we could all be protected. And then I saw he already was using our last one and he said he was so desparete that he had the chance to sleep with another woman besied me that he wasn't thinking about me being protected.

From that moment I again started to feel insecure becouse he so easily forgot about me and my eventuall needs, and he started to freak out that I did not come to him to solve the 'condom problem' but to stop him from having sex with another woman.
Here I'm going to be extra careful to repeat that to form a balanced opinion, we would need to read his version of this event. Because if your version is correct, this is a HORROR story... and you know that it is! His pleasure is more important than your safety??? His few minutes of excitement is worth more than your possible years of dealing with AIDS (or an unwanted pregnancy)???
 
Hi Altea!
This sounds very much like he isn't willing to put any of his time or energy into caring for / working on / healing your relationship, but lets you do all that work, and then likes you to keep him up-to-date. Is he a pasha, a sultan, a basza? Does he want you to fan him with ostrich feathers, too?

I talked with him yesterday. And suggested he should write here his version of all the events and write about his feelings and problems. He said that it would not help him in any way, that he doesn't want to write here because he doesn't know, what he should write about.
He has generally an attitude like :"I have my needs and you should respect them because it's you who has a problem"
He also admitted that he doesn't have the energy to solve our relationship problems and that I should be the one taking initiative and helping me and him out, because he doesn't have the energy to. He said he is fed up with helping me all the time and that he doesn't want to help me anymore, that this is 'my turn' to help him :/
If you both want to save the relationship (and make it healthy), you might have to learn to get used to small steps.

I know it. But I guess he doesn't want to see, that. He wants it all now.
If your version of things is an accurate portrayal of his lack of:
a) interest in working on the relationship;
b) concern for your feelings;
c) common decency in how he treats you;
d) respect for you or for the other women he fucks...
... then I stand by my earlier advice: you should be making GIANT steps (away from him).

Maybe i should thae giant steps away. But, no matter how funny it will sound, it is not easy. Despite all his behaviour i like him and I feel the need to help him solve his problems and to teach him how to be in a healthy relationship.

I
.Maybe you should consider thinking that he's messing with your mind and with your feelings?

You admit that you are "also not without fault". Does he admit that about himself?
He "sees that I am changing 'for the better' now". Do you see that he is changing... or at least is trying to?

If you "guess he is manipulating me", what are you doing to make sure that he doesn't do so? Or (harsher question): why are you still with him?

God only knows how many times such thought came to my mind. After each bigger discussion he admits that he is also not without fault. But he always says that the way he bahaves is his nature. He himself admits that lots of his problems are due to his foremre realtionship with his ex-gf.

I don't know if he is chnaging. He said yesterday that he sees only two ways the futeure will look like 1) he will eventually cheat on me not telling me anything so I don;t get mad 2)he will break up with me. He does not see tha version of being truly poly/swinging because as he says it is hard for him to belive I trulu open to nonmongamiuos relationships. He never tried himself to do anything to make sure I am telling the truth, he says that I should do everything to assure him of me telling the truth wbout my feelings:/

I don;t know if he is manipulating or not. I stick to him for reasons which are important for me but when I think of them now they can sound silly. I mean he was the only person that earlier said he is accepting me and he helped me (I had problems with my family and with shyness). And I really really like him and I want to help him. I mean he is almost 30 and is not able to live in a healthy relationhip. I truly want to show him that relationships aren't nesessary bad and can work out.
It's like he's not interested in exploring potentially healthy relationships, where there's a chance that everybody will be happy [using the excuse that "it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them"] but is perfectly happy to enter relationships where he knows right from the beginning that you will be miserable.

He is a pessimist. And there are moments when he just doesn't belive in me. He says that it is easier to be single and that the bare thouhgt that he must consider me in his decisions (even if we agree on many terms) makes him feel bad ant trapped:/
Here I'm going to be extra careful to repeat that to form a balanced opinion, we would need to read his version of this event. Because if your version is correct, this is a HORROR story... and you know that it is! His pleasure is more important than your safety??? His few minutes of excitement is worth more than your possible years of dealing with AIDS (or an unwanted pregnancy)???

As I wrote- he said he doen't want to write here, so I guess this will be the only point of view you'll get. If he wrote though I guess he would say that I seened to have a problem when I came to him/or that I seemed to be jealous and so on. But two things are facts 1)he used the last without even considering me 2)and he used the word "I was so excited that I get to sleep with another woman that I could think only of this"

---
When I write all this I start to feel miserable. I mean I had always the feeling that he is worth taking the effort and helping him. And I also always thought he was saying the truth when he said he wants to help me with my problems. But now I'm not sure of anything anymore... :(

I remember wathich a fil called 'bitter moon' I don't know if anyone here has seen it. But there were some dialogs between Oscar and Mimi (in the moment when their relationship was falling apart) that were exactly the same as are some dialogs of me and my bf. I mean those like:
M- What have I done wrong
O- You didn't do anything wrong. You exist. That's all

or the part when Oscar said he didn't dumped Mimi for a particualr woman, bit swaped her for all the women kind. It's sometjhing my bf doest too. He doesn't have anyone particular in mind, he just wants all the other woman he is/was surrounded by :/
 
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He also admitted that he doesn't have the energy to solve our relationship problems and that I should be the one taking initiative and helping me and him out
:eek:!!!:eek:
Maybe i should thae giant steps away. But, no matter how funny it will sound, it is not easy. Despite all his behaviour i like him and I feel the need to help him solve his problems and to teach him how to be in a healthy relationship. [...] He never tried himself to do anything to make sure I am telling the truth, he says that I should do everything to assure him of me telling the truth wbout my feelings:/

I stick to him for reasons which are important for me but when I think of them now they can sound silly. I mean he was the only person that earlier said he is accepting me and he helped me (I had problems with my family and with shyness). And I really really like him and I want to help him. I mean he is almost 30 and is not able to live in a healthy relationhip. I truly want to show him that relationships aren't nesessary bad and can work out.
I imagine (I may be wrong) 3 reasons why you don't drop him:
1) He helped you in the past... so you owe him a favour.
2) You feel that you can help him... and he DOES need help.
3) He suffered so much when the last girlfriend left. If you, too, leave him, he will suffer again. You will feel guilty for making him suffer... and will feel that his (and your?) friends are criticising you for "doing him wrong".

My answers to those reasons are:
1) Whatever favours that he has done you in the past do NOT give him the right to treat you like shit now; do NOT give him the right to maintaining a life-long strangle-hold on your emotions and your love-life.

2) You are NOT going to help him if he isn't willing to help himself. You would only be encouraging him not to take responsibility for his own life. This is no favour to him, believe me.

3) Dear Altea! Please stop living your life according to what other people will be thinking of you! It's your life, not theirs.
I stick to him for reasons which are important for me but when I think of them now they can sound silly. I mean he was the only person that earlier said he is accepting me and he helped me (I had problems with my family and with shyness).
It sounds to me like you either feel or used to feel that you are unloveable, and therefore are very grateful to him for being the first person to pay you attention. I know how this feels. I went through my childhood and adolescence feeling like this.

There was one VERY nice (also - in my opinion - the most beautiful) girl in my class at school who seemed to be gently flirting with me, but I couldn't believe that she really cared for me, the unloveable one. I was too shy to act on it. Still, the suspicion that somebody might care for me was the first step I needed towards caring for myself. Later, I invented a self-therapy that helped me a lot. I think that it might help you. You can find a version here, but you will need to adapt certain details to your own life situation. (If you read further in that thread, you will see that Ivy did feel silly... but she also found that it works. I hope that she keeps up with it, because it REALLY worked for me.)

Please, please, pay especial attention to point g)!!!​

Altea, you are a lovely person, whatever your boyfriend thinks. And you deserve REAL love, not just someone who pays you a little bit of attention (and some sex [which he also is benefitting from:cool:, so it's not exactly a generous gift to you:rolleyes:]) and who reminds you constantly how much you're ruining his life:mad::mad:.
It's like he's not interested in exploring potentially healthy relationships, where there's a chance that everybody will be happy [using the excuse that "it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them"] but is perfectly happy to enter relationships where he knows right from the beginning that you will be miserable.
He is a pessimist. And there are moments when he just doesn't belive in me. He says that it is easier to be single and that the bare thouhgt that he must consider me in his decisions (even if we agree on many terms) makes him feel bad ant trapped:/
You didn't deal with the point that I was making here: that he seems to prefer relationships that will hurt you and tells you that he's avoiding relationships that might hurt you. [For your sake???!!! I don't think so!:mad:]

When I write all this I start to feel miserable. I mean I had always the feeling that he is worth taking the effort and helping him. And I also always thought he was saying the truth when he said he wants to help me with my problems. But now I'm not sure of anything anymore... :(

I remember wathich a film called 'bitter moon' I don't know if anyone here has seen it.

M- What have I done wrong?
O- You didn't do anything wrong. You exist. That's all
When you LOOK at it and are honest with yourself, you feel miserable. Take yourself seriously!

I don't wish your boyfriend any bad things, honestly. I would be really happy to read that you are both working on your relationship, are making progress, and both beginning to feel much happier - about yourselves and about each other.

But if you've talked to him about this, and he openly says that he hasn't got the energy or time to work on all this, you need to be brutally honest with yourself and realise that you really don't mean all that much to him.

Do you mean that much to yourself? I hope so!

I LOVE Polanski! One of the greatest living film directors. I saw "Bitter Moon" once (years ago) and the UGLINESS of the relationships was so heavy that I don't know if I'll ever see it again. That 2-line dialogue that you quote runs shivers down my spine!
This web-site will not let me send you a HUG bigger than this.:(
I feel like I really need to talk to someone in a open-hearted way. If you want pm me.
You may send me a PM any time you wish.:)
 
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I think he's done with you sweety :( sorry but I see all those signs there.

He will cheat on you so you don't get mad? Sounds like he doesn't want to put any effort in amd wants it now too. He's being selfish. Poly doesn't work with the snap of your fingers and a bad attitude towards those you are supposidly in love with.

He might be almost thirty but he is way too self centered to know how to be a contributor to a healthy relationship it sounds like. In this way he is around 15. I know 15 year olds that are more mature.

It sounds like he's really frustrated and uninterested in participating in your relationship any more. It sounds like he just wants to break free and go fuck a whole bunch of women that he thinks will accept that. Wellllll, good luck to him. Thing is, to have something real in life one has to put in the time and effort. Has to put up with stuff that is frustrating and hard to navigate through.

If I were you I would back right off. Give him some space and tell him you will wait for him to talk and that you suggest he read here or get help elsewhere. When he wants to talk again about this then he will have to come to you and be prepared to work. Make sure he knows that you will not put up with cheating and that if he cheats in that time then you will leave him. To me that would be the bottom line.

You can do much better than be with a cheater. You have your self worth to think about and your integrity. If he wants to blow his because he is too lazy to work on his relationship that's his choice. Hopefully that is an empty threat. Threatening is bad enough but to go the route of cheating will mean ten times the work afterwards. He won't remember the sex five years from now, he will remember the deciet, greed, trauma he caused, and how he gave up his integrity for a fuck. I suggest you make sure that he is aware of that.

Backing off might give him the break he needs to figure out what he will do. I would make sure he knows that you won't just leave it though and will be asking him how its going within a day or two. If his answer is that he doesn't know yet, then leave it and walk away. The idea is to make sure he is on it, not to pester. Also perhaps to give you some peace of mind.

It kind of makes me wonder when you say you "like" him. What's that all about?
 
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