New, with new feelings... HELP

windmarkbob

New member
My wife Jolene has always been interested in a group-marriage arrangement, always telling me that loving more than one person was not just do-able, but easy and understandable. Great from an intellectual standpoint, but from a practical one, I'll concede it's possible, but not for me. I'm too jealous, possessive, and didn't know how she could love someone in addition to me, unless I had failed or she felt like she was missing something I couldn't give, regardless of my approval of the concept on an intellectual level. (Thank you, R.A.H. Grok?)

Next comes the sledgehammer to my forehead. I fell in love with a close friend of mine, Amber, just by going out and shooting pool and talking over the course of several months. I've been in an extremely close, yet non-romantic relationship with her and her husband Trevor for a couple of years, but now things are somewhat strained, since we admitted that we were in love with each other.

Trevor is a lot like my wife Jolene, in seeing a compound marriage as a "good" thing, and an ideal that would be nice, but he's accepting our new relationship, and Jolene's accepting it, as well. So far, so good, on this road to one big happy family unit with 4 strong personalities and 2 major alphas, Trevor and me.

The biggest problem (we've started calling them "pricklies") is the things that are shared, the sweet nothings, the more intimate moments, and not just the bedroom ones (which haven't happened yet), that can cause pangs of jealousy, possible misunderstandings, because of an inability to communicate as well as maybe we should be able to, especially since we all are, and all have been, happily married for a long time (them for 10 years, my wife and me for 22 years).

How do you deal with the "pricklies"?

How do you deal with the inevitable power struggles that will sooner or later end in an impasse?

Thanks,
Bob
 
Last edited:
Check out the communication

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255

It has some great suggestions for that.

Personally, I think the biggest key is SLOW DOWN.

As our communication counselor says (ALL THE TIME) CONNECT, then correct.

1. You have to LISTEN actively.
2. Repeat back (in your own words) as a summary, to be sure you understood.
3. Explain why YOU DO accept and understand it and how you think it might make them FEEL.
4. THEN you get to say one thing, and they listen and do the above three steps.

(I laid this out in detail in the communication thread.)

It sounds obnoxious at first, and it takes TIME to do it. It's not a "FAST" process. BUT it does work, and it works well.
 
Thank you! By the way, this is so new to me. I'm feeling real weird. The new feelings are intense, almost "high-schoolish," in their intensity, since we both verbalized that we loved each other, even though we both agree that "maybe" things would have been easier if kept at a distance and treated as the equivalent of the romanticized middle ages' "courtly love", like Lancelot and Guinevere.

I'm afraid, very afraid of it all blowing up in our faces. Trevor *says* he's okay with everything, but I get a sense that he really isn't, or he's a hair away from just saying, "I was wrong, and this will not continue."

I almost want to just walk away (even though it would kill me, break my heart, to do so), on my own now, rather than her hear from Trevor that, "It's all got to end now," for his own peace of mind. Nothing so harsh as "It's beyond my control" from Dangerous Liaisons, but an end, nonetheless.

Is this fear normal? Is the thought of ending something like this ever "good," or is this just me rationalizing and getting defensive because I'm subconsciously okay with ending it, it rather than being told by someone else that it's over?

I'm so confused by all this. I'm 43 years old and I'm acting like a teeny-bopper who's never been dumped or been through all this before. I'm posting this even though I feel like a moron for doing so. I'm so confuzzled.

Thanks,
Bob
 
If Trevor is saying he's okay with the situation, but you're getting the feeling he's not, more communication is called for. Talk with him. Encourage Amber to talk with him. The four of you could get together, if that's appropriate. But talk it out, with love, respect and compassion for everyone concerned. Find out what he's feeling, what he needs in order to truly be okay, and together make a plan to be sure his needs are met.

One challenge that is unique to polyamory is handling NRE (New Relationship Energy) while maintaining a more mature relationship. It sometimes happens that the two new lovers are so caught up in all the delicious feelings of new love that they neglect their established relationships. This is completely understandable, but it can be devastating to the the neglected partner.

Take steps to make sure this is not the case for y'all. As her established partner, Trevor may be having a hard time seeing Amber overcome with NRE for you. He may feel left out, or envious, or feel that his needs are now less important in Amber's eyes than the needs of the new relationship. (Of course, I can't say what he's feeling, and neither can you at this point; that's why more communication is needed.) If any of these is the case, you need to make a plan with your Amber to make sure his needs are met.
 
Pricklies

Hi Bob,

Oh yeah, the early lessons. Right. Consider this...

One of the biggest challenges in learning to love is to learn to release. Buddhism or Taoism have some good foundational concepts here in relation to "non-attachment." This has NOTHING to do with religion (not into religion here, at all).

Jealousy (which is really fear) seems to be an inherent part of being human, and it's probably one of the first challenges that, if overcome, will change our lives forever.

Maybe it can start as recognizing that despite whatever relationship exists between people, everyone still is an individual person and as such, is entitled to little slices of their own life to have and hold. This shouldn't be looked on as a threat.

When two (or more) people REALLY love each other, there is a concern there for their happiness and fulfillment, and being able to share in that is the bond that brings us together. Share them, when possible, and celebrate!

The "little intimacies" you mention as the "pricklies" are really nothing more than the moment-to-moment of the flow of life's interactions. We all have these moments all the time, with people, the world around us in general. They go into making us who we are. They are not something to be feared. They (usually) deserve a smile. :)

In any relationship there's always the potential for fear, the fear of loss, whether it's the loss of the total relationship or loss of pieces we feel are important parts. Being disconnected, out of the loop. Natural, but we have to trust and communicate. If those we love (and who love us) realize our feelings about things like this, they'll be much more likely to try to share those things with us.

Stuff like this is why polyamory is really a challenge. It requires rethinking and reprogramming of a whole lot of the stuff we were brought up with, or adopted because of the society we've lived in all this time.

We think the end product is well worth the effort. :)

Lovingly,
GS
 
We interrupt this discussion for an unscheduled Accountability test:

Hi Bob,

Oh yeah, the early lessons :)
Consider this...

GroundedSpirit, you are in no position to advise anyone on relationships based in love and respect. You have still not rectified your offenses to Ceoli and the larger poly community from the “Sexual element” thread. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1174

Own what is yours. Be accountable for your actions. If you still think you were correct and justified in your offenses, say so. Or else admit your errors and apologize. Hiding from a problem never solves it.

Returning now to our regularly scheduled discussion...
 
Now Now. We must keep this thread from becoming "counter-productive".

But thanks for the reality-check, Fidelia!
 
First disaster averted

We all got together to define some terms and discuss how they applied to each other involved at this point. Thank you, Wikipedia, for the entry on love, where the concept is broken down into manageable bite-sized pieces. We've determined that there's a LOT of "storge" to go around with everyone, a little less "eros" than "storge," and "agape" is currently shared in both directions by the primary couples involved (spouse-to-spouse only, so far).

We're all much happier now, and have a better understanding of the differences, which we all believe will help control the "pricklies" that are sure to still crop up.

Thanks to everyone here who posted a response!

Later

(Friday's gonna be a fun and interesting experience for all of us) ;)
 
Last edited:
Something I just realized, being new to this and everything. I'm wondering what I've gone and done. I've just given a second person the ability to rip my heart out. What the hell was I thinking? How do you willingly put yourself into a position that gives that kind of power to multiple people?
 
Something I just realized, being new to this and everything. I'm wondering what I've gone and done. I've just given a second person the ability to rip my heart out. Shat the hell was I thinking? How do you willingly put yourself into a position that gives that kind of power to multiple people?

Scary, isn't it? But then, you're also giving a second person the chance to love you unconditionally, wholeheartedly, fully and with as much passion as you can handle. I would rather take the chance with the hopes of experiencing that, than sit and worry about my heart and lose out. :)
 
Sorry to hear it 'bob. You have people here willing to listen if you want to say more, maybe help you find a silver lining.
 
Sheesh, where to start? Trevor took his pleasure with my lovely wife Jolene, then said he felt like he cheated on Amber, and stopped everything from going any further. To make light of the situation, I was the only one who didn't get laid.

On a more serious note, he has basically said it's unacceptable that Amber feel romantic love toward anyone but him.

I'm out, and it's hurting both of us.
 
Last edited:
:mad: I can't even tell you how much bullshit this is! I definitely wouldn't have anything thing to do with this guy ever again. (maybe one last conversation.) He used Jolene for sex. I hope she is doing okay.

Sorry to hear about this. Trevor is a fucking asshole. He doesn't own Amber. If she wants to have contact with you, he'll just have to deal with it, or drag his double-standard ass back to his momma's house. His fucking Jolene doesn't mean Amber should have to suffer the loss of a friend.

Take care,
Mono
 
Sheesh, where to start? He took his pleasure with my lovely wife Jolene, then said he felt like he cheated on his wife Amber, and stopped everything from going any further.

To make light of the situation, I was the only one who didn't get laid.

On a more serious note, he has basically said no more contact between me and Amber. It's unacceptable that she feel romantic love toward anyone but him.

So much for our Friday night bullshit sessions, throwing darts. That is ending.

I'm out, and it's hurting both of us.

Oh, bloody hell! If I could afford a trip to WI right now, I'd come visit and kick the dude's ass for you. That sort of behavior warrants a thorough ass-kicking.
 
News... if you care to hear.

Trevor is feeling like crap for what happened. He wants us all to remain friends. He *says* he's okay with Amber and me still throwing darts on Friday nights. She told him that was non-negotiable.

He's falling all over himself apologizing now. He's saying some really weird stuff though, like, "I've damaged something innocent and pure within my own marriage." Amber's in a tough situation. Regardless of the bullshit he pulled, he's still human and he's dealing with something that's so far out of his comfort zone that he's struggling to figure out who he really is, since his intellect isn't matching his emotions. I don't think he's playing "head games," as much as I think, in this situation, he's a "head case."

Having been there in the past with Jolene (I never did what he did) in regards to jealousy, and feeling a monstrous fear of loss, I do empathize with him, to some degree. Jolene is hurt to the quick, and will be going over to their place tonight to open up both barrels and flay his soul by letting him know exactly how he hurt her and what she thinks about what he did.

I'm glad I'm not in his shoes. Amber will probably just go sit at a coffee shop for an hour or so, so they can have their chat and Jolene can get some closure by calling a spade a spade, so to speak. This needs to be between them, and them alone, at this point.

I'll be there for Jolene when she's done with him. I'll be there for Amber if she ever needs a friend, an ear or a shoulder. I really do want to maintain the friendship with and the love of Amber. We'll respect his wishes and experience "courtly love."

I so frigging hate that term and what it really is. Whoever romanticized the ideal of courtly love was a moron, considering how much it royally SUCKS to be living it.

Thanks for letting me vent here. I'm glad I found this forum, since there really isn't anyone I know who I really can vent to like this. Oh, I could with Jolene or Amber, or even Trevor, but it just wouldn't be the same. I'd be too busy watching for signs I'd said something hurtful inadvertently, and have to stop and rephrase. This is better.

I really want to put up a wall, look at Amber and say, "It's beyond my control," but I can't hurt her or myself like that. Yes, I've seen Dangerous Liaisons one too many times.

Take care.
 
Last edited:
Someone told me once that men make friends with women in the hopes of fucking them, and women fuck men in order to deepen their friendships with them. I have noticed this to be true several time in my life, and have almost relied on it when sleeping with someone for the first time. I always remain slightly aloof as a result, until I know for sure they are actually seriously interested in more with me than sex. There have been times when I have purposely slept with guys I am not really interested in, in terms of romance, but just to get past the whole sex thing to get on with being friends.

Right now, I enjoy that the men in my poly community don't have access to me in that way. I am deriving some pleasure from it. I am finding poly men want to be my friend first! Imagine that! I still wonder if we got that sex thing out of the way if they would want to be still. I will not know that, I guess.

Anyway, my point is that I am surprised that anyone would be surprised that Trevor's reaction was as such. He thought he could do it without recourse, and that it would fun, and maybe he loved her. No problem, he isn't poly. Why make him feel like shit for it? He's mono. End of story. He feels bad, but will stick to his wife Amber, thank you very much. One never knows how these things will turn out until they are done.

I don't think Jolene should take it personally. It's really nothing to do with her. Lesson learned, put out and see where it goes. If it increases a connection, then go with it. If not, then let it go. Just see it as an experiment, interesting and a good time. I know that sounds horrible, but it's worked for me and saved me a lot of heartache.
 
If it were me, I'd be mighty pissed. I'd try to step off for at least a week, most probably more. Just you watch what a week does to turn the lesson around, as all parties get a minute to work their shit out.

Sorry, man. Jolene needs you as a friend right now. Focus on helping her, I'd say.

Good luck. Your support for her can heal you both, if you let it.
 
PS

I see what the others are saying about your dart partner Amber, but she's going to have to concentrate on the issues this raises for her right now. I didn't mean to indicate that she was unimportant by omitting her, but I stand by creating space here.

You seem to be doing a fine job being clear-headed.

Again, good luck.
 
Last update...

Well, the more time we spend dealing with this, the more convinced I am that to some degree I'm a catalyst that has brought to light some long-term issues in their marriage. So I'm minimizing the active drama in my life and putting the ball in both of their courts, cutting and running for now, at least, to a more comfortable spot for me: into Jolene's arms, where I spend every night, and will spend every night until one of us croaks... Damn, I married well!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top