New People Always Say The Same Thing, Don't We?

Bricklie,

Of course, there is nothing new under the Sun, or the Moon. It has all been thought before, felt before, made before, sung before, and written before now.

But not by you, not before now.

And that, my dear fellow creature, is the beauty of this life. That we are destined to feel fresh in such old worn out ways is Magic.

Yes, I have that coffee feeling, too.

And also, you only get more visceral, not less.

Same song sung by different singers, I like what you're saying. I'm trying to appreciate solidarity of human heartache instead of dwelling only on the personally tricky bits. Being aloud to experience reality, especially when it involves love, that's enough compensation.
 
Whereupon feeling...

Whereupon feeling for the first time the cold bitterness of grief, I looked around the graveyard, turning away from the platitudes at my great-grandmother's grave. The sweeping gaze of my weeping eyes was returned by cold surnames names symmetrically stamped on stone reliquaries used repeatedly to mark the dead and gone. So unrelenting were those losses, row by row, up the hill and then some.

I was thirteen, and well old enough to understand. The sadness would always be the same shared thing, forever, but mine was my own.

In the end, I cried just like everyone else.

No expression of love should ever be called cliche. Would we ever dare say that our grieving is so passe'?

My great-grandmother was one hundred and one years old when we laid her in the clay. I can still remember how it felt to kiss her old wrinkled cheek.

It was lovely.

Now, you go on and love brilliantly and make it your own.
 
Aonther male point of view

Such incredible advice, opinions, and empathy from wiser and more experienced folk than you or I… I can’t imagine a better gift the internet has given us than places like this. Anyway, this man of yours seems to love you very much. My question: Does he also love the woman he’s lived with all this time? Did he know her when she was younger and continued to love her as she grew older? There is something about that relationship that drives him to still desire her, a woman physically less hot and young than you. That ‘something’ is proof that he can love you for more than your looks. From your post it appears you are a thoughtful, intelligent, and interesting person… all the more reason that his man’s love for you will endure and grow stronger even as you trade youth for maturity.
 
well. I just hope that my husband and I find a lady that will love us both as time goes on... cause after all folks...... in the end.. all that matters is whats inside. The thought of someone sharing your life.. through all its stages... is to me the most loving thing anyone can do. It shows strength like no other.... love is neverending it lasts forever.

And when the time comes for one to cross over.... the love thats shared even in death goes on with the person for eternity. Thats what keeps us alive... in the hearts and memories of those we leave on this earth. And all that is held together by love through the ages.
 
"Does he also love the woman he’s lived with all this time? Did he know her when she was younger and continued to love her as she grew older?"

(EpsilonLyr, thank you and I agree with you about the internet. I am very grateful for all the help; it's a huge boon. Internet means more human connections, and I think everyone here is on board with that!)

He's an extraordinarily loving human, very good to his lady. It's pretty domestic between them though; they take care of each other, six years softly negotiating the rough world together. If love is counted in patience and acceptance, I bet they score pretty highly. He says he's never stopped loving anyone, which I kind of understand. But I think love can morph, and sometimes it morphs into something unsustainable.

She's monogamous and I have a really hard time believing she's all that happy with the situation. I know that, unlike with other girlfriends he's had, she's not very comfortable with me, rather wants to keep this a--what do they call it?--V relationship. She and I are like night and day, Betty & Veronica sort of thing. Plus she's the face of my guilt, so I don't really want to go have a mani-pedi with her either.

I don't seem to be monogamous--still working it out. I'm not sure how open he is with her about us--hence the year-and-a-half-long restraint that makes me grind my teeth at night.

This is all just new to me and I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love. People fool themselves about their motivations sometimes. If he's just using polyamory to keep things spicy while she holds down the fort at home... well then he's the kind of man who won't hold my heart in good trust. See my emotional logic? Which is all silly because of the two of us, I'm the one more likely to betray or abandon. Working on that too.

The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.
 
Ha, thanks Yoxi. My family maintains that it's an Irish trait, to religiously laugh at your sorrows.

And to everyone with insight, interest and advice, thank you again. It's really a treat to have a sounding board with such depth.

Fella's no shallow fool, he's just a hu-man. I worry. Am doing my best to keep those worries bound by reason--they just slip out on their own sometimes. Tricky little things.

The point I was getting at, perhaps gracelessly, was that I'm--in traditional paradigm talk--the Other Woman. The Other Woman role includes insecurities about how legitimate you are, how he really feels. When the day is done, we seem to cause each other incalculable depths of rare and rolling joy. When the day is done he goes home to her. Going with that for now.
 
Proust said the best marriages have infidelity hovering over them like a threat. But with polyamory, it's not a threat, it's a promise.

No, with polyamory, it's not about infidelity. It's honest and open non-monogamy. Huge difference. Infidelity is about sneaking around, lying, violating agreed-upon boundaries, disloyalty, and untrustworthiness.
I want him so much, I assume I can't have him, that something--anything--will get in the way.

But you do have him. Just not in the conventional sense.
She's monogamous and I have a really hard time believing she's all that happy with the situation . . . Plus she's the face of my guilt . . . I'm not sure how open he is with her about us . . . I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love . . . The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.

You have nothing to feel guilty about if everything is above board. It sounds like she knows about you, but perhaps not all the details (which is fine). Simply put, you are involved with a man who loves more than one woman. Again, it seems you don't quite see polyamory as much more than having permission to cheat, but I don't think it should feel that way. Perhaps this sense you have is an indication that some conversation with your guy is needed first, so you can get clear on how open and honest he is with her. Or, it could just be your insecurities and unsureness about the whole thing, which, in that case, could also ease up if you talk about it, but you might need to be careful not to make it a messy conversation.

The point I was getting at, perhaps gracelessly, was that I'm--in traditional paradigm talk--the Other Woman. The Other Woman role includes insecurities about how legitimate you are, how he really feels. When the day is done, we seem to cause each other incalculable depths of rare and rolling joy. When the day is done he goes home to her.

You are not the other woman; you are one woman involved with a man who has two in his life. Calling yourself the other woman really sounds degrading to me. Everything you express seems to show that you have not really resolved for yourself what the situation is, what polyamory is, and how it is different from cheating, affairs, infidelity. I think you need to let go of the wistful hoping that the situation was different. This is usually where people get tangled up in conflict -- we think things should be different from what they are.

In many cases, of course, we find ourselves in situations that need to change. However, the way to have what you want is to start by looking at where you are, without comparing it to what others have or what you think you should have. Just take stock of what you've got with this relationship, without giving credence to that dialogue in your head tell you it's wrong in some way. Then ask yourself if it's okay, or do you want more? Or something else? If so, then, sit with that for awhile, you may not need to act on it right away. But oftentimes, what we need comes from inside us, not outside.

To me, it sounds like you really have a good thing with perhaps the need for a little more communication to get clarity on some issues.
 
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I'll have to redraft my entire personality. Damn.

Hey, you compare me at 23 to now, not many years later and I am completely different! Completely! But if you told 23yo me that I would say you're a fool. At every stage of your growth/development/psychosis/regression you'll have people that will be there saying things like "Yeah you're fine, you're good" even when perhaps you aren't. People will tell you pretty much whatever makes them feel comfortable "Hey don't want to upset you or hurt your feelings as then I may have to comfort you".

You can work on your personality and you're body to an extent. But as a woman you can only have kids in that 15-35 period with high success rates, and then that's it. Doesn't matter how much confidence you get, or how well you "flaunt it", your youth is gone. If you can use your assets to attract better mate(s) that will stick with you in the long term why not use them?

You must remember that the poly community is broad and has a higher distribution of people over 35yo than normal society. Why? Well it's easier to embrace polyamory once they've had all the children they want and natural jealousy declines.

So to break it down, embrace that hard 23yo body.... haha. Sounds like a porno sometimes on this forum....
 
This is all just new to me and I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love. People fool themselves about their motivations sometimes. If he's just using polyamory to keep things spicy while she holds down the fort at home... well then he's the kind of man who won't hold my heart in good trust. See my emotional logic? Which is all silly because of the two of us, I'm the one more likely to betray or abandon. Working on that too.

The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.

It's totally understandable that you see yourself in a vulnerable position. Their relationship is solid. Now that they've created a solid bond, he has found you. Just like they had to adjust to each other and hash a lot out to become stronger, now they both have to adjust to you. But considering all of the challenges of two people in a relationship, adding a third must greatly intensify the complexity, though I wouldn't know from experience. With effort and patient on all sides, perhaps there will come a time when you can talk to her?

Anyway it's not some dramatic insight, I know. But I am so new to this as well and already I am seeing a lot of similar themes coming up. I read Sage's newest blog post today... "Are You the Meat and Potatoes or the Dessert" and it comes to mind. It relates to your situation, but from the opposite side of things. http://www.polyamorouspeople.com/
 
"No, with polyamory, it's not about infidelity..." "I think you need to let go of the wistful hoping that the situation was different."

-- Oh god, that's the nail on the head right there! This love's a gift as it is, I see that. I just sort of feel I've got to follow the pain, chase it to its root before I can lose it.


"To me, it sounds like you really have a good thing with perhaps the need for a little more communication to get clarity on some issues."

We had a talk today, self-consciously wry and jovial over Mexican food as all such talks should be, but actually honest and revealing. I feel better. We settled it that while we swim around in a world full of other facts, the most important to us is we'll seemingly love each other forever. It's real and it's happening. I'd rather have those words than a ring on my finger, rather have trust than a white picket fence. You're right, it's not conventional, but it's wonderful.
 
Hi Bricklie,

I admit it, I am 50% just reading your posts because I enjoy your writing style. The one about having to redraft your whole personality had me chuckling. But yeah, I hope you work this out. I think you should meet your man's other lady more , get to know her a bit. I think that will help everything. At least you will know.
 
Haha, thanks vodkafan, what a treat to hear.

You're probably completely right. She, however, has no interest in reaching for a friendship. I'm starting to think she's staunchly pretending this isn't real, wants to know little to nothing about me to enforce that. The deal is she "doesn't like to ask questions, the answers to which she'll find painful," according to Fella. Not exactly freedom of information here, more "Don't ask, don't tell" instead. Seems less than above board to me, but what do I know?

If it's that bad for her, don't they need to work that out? I know I shouldn't push into their dynamic, but I am affected by her comfort. And I don't like it when he's sad by extension, makes my stomach do gymnastic things.

Additionally, my mother has declared, "If you do something to mess up my working relationship with [ML's mom] I will not take your side! I will socially abandon you; I need that woman's documents." They work at the same place and ML's mom could cause my mother some serious inconvenience if she cared to. Not that she would, but she could. So I don't want to insist on hashing it out with ML, in case ML talks to her mother about being uncomfortable and my mother belatedly takes up child abuse. Gah, small effing town.
 
Dinner for Three and Dumb Panic

Last night he came over and issued an invitation from Main Lady (ML) to come over and grill vegitables that evening. We have never before crossed the streams, so to speak, and the prospect filled me with the most amazing sensation.

Pure. Animal. Terror. He could have held a gun to my head and my heart would have been more calm.

And for the first time I found out that he felt just as scared as me. There's no reason for these feelings, good lord! but somehow a united dinner with this profoundly kind, sweet lady scared the hell out of both of us. But sometimes you have to do things that are scary in order to do the right thing, eh? It takes me a long time to follow good advice, but remembering those kind suggestions I got from y'all back in January I uttered the sentence, "Well, it's what the internet thinks I should do."

And we mobilized! It took me two cigarettes and another beer, but I ended up in his car, driving to his house. The sky was bright, but the walk to the door was dark. However, it was warm inside, and we were greeted by his various animals the cheerful peak-around head of his Main Lady, beaming a happy Hello! to her man and his guest. We passed jovial small talk and a truly pleasant dinner. I made them laugh, they made me welcome. The love between them felt very warm. Only once did I discretely swallow a scream into my beer, at which point I hand signaled to fella that it was time for me to go.

This is one of those times when it is glaringly obvious that my heart will feel what it likes, even to the point of tearing itself up, even if there's not much reason to. In the car, tears, like soldiers, charged down my face. He walked me into my house, patienty waited while I blubbered, asked me what was wrong, apologized for putting me in an upsetting position. I explained no, that I, like other extroverts, operate this way sometimes, that tears and pain don't always indicate harm but rather uncomfortable and profound learning. I sounded as smart as I could with snot dripping into my mouth. Even though I was just excusing histrionic behavior, it was kind of a big moment for us.

And then, of course, as always, he left. I am getting very good at loving a man who leaves.

Out of my twisted tangle of emotion and reason came this inconclusive nonsense: When I sat with them and ate dinner I was a guest, as I will always be a guest, a tolerated trespasser. For all that I am permitted, I am still walking on another's land. I was mourning the loss of this man who sat right next to me.

What is wrong with me?

In the house, I got it--love infinitum, comensality, tribe. In the car, I fell apart. I want him more than I will ever have. Is this the hunger of the selfish? Or the monogamous? Or just the pain of cruising the learning curve?
 
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