Dating advice wanted

Finally heard back from M, and yep...she's out. What was a nice moment for me was actually uncomfortable for her. While she doesn't judge what my wife and I are doing, she says she has a much more conventional view on marriage, and doesn't care to spend time connecting with someone who is going to stay married. But she still wants to hang out in the same manner that we always have, so great. :) I was afraid our last outing had screwed that up, and I'm very happy to know that it didn't. We might go out next week...not sure.

But romantically...back to square one. Oh well.
 
Finally heard back from M, and yep...she's out. What was a nice moment for me was actually uncomfortable for her. While she doesn't judge what my wife and I are doing, she says she has a much more conventional view on marriage, and doesn't care to spend time connecting with someone who is going to stay married. But she still wants to hang out in the same manner that we always have, so great. :) I was afraid our last outing had screwed that up, and I'm very happy to know that it didn't. We might go out next week...not sure.

But romantically...back to square one. Oh well.

You never know something might develop down the road. People think about things and sometimes change. The important thing is that you realize that you can't change people to suit your own style. You get imaginary-internet-points for handling yourself in a noble manner. "Noble" = "worthy, dignified" not "noble" = "aristocratic". I guess I just could have said "worthy & dignified" in the first place, but I enjoy playing with quotation marks.
 
Well...new developments have occurred, but not with M.

This is backing up a bit, but needed...

The night I had gone out with M and ended up kissing her (a couple of months ago), she was running late, and I was already at the pub. I stood in the parking lot by my car because the weather was beautiful, and started messing around on my phone, looking at Facebook, etc. I happened to look at who was online, and noticed S...a girl that used to be a barista at a coffeehouse I frequented. I had quite a crush on her, too.

We've known each other for a few years, and I had chatted her up a couple of times in the past...but we've never really known each other that well, because all of our interactions were limited to about 30 seconds at a time. Still...I've always thought she's one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen. I was feeling bold that night, and ended up chatting with her online for about 15 minutes. Not sure how I got there, but I ended up complimenting her and admitting the crush I had (have). She was quite flattered by it. After a bit, I had to go because M was nearly there, but we decided to talk again sometime.

***

So, about three weeks ago, I was sitting outside at a bar by myself, enjoying a couple of beers with some time to kill. Picked up my phone, got on FB, and she was online. We started chatting, and really hit it off. I must have talked to her for an hour. Over the following week, S and I sent brief messages back and forth. I told her I was playing a gig that coming Friday - which happened to be her birthday. She was going to be in the area and might stop by. Told her I'd buy her a beer and maybe give her a birthday kiss...she seemed pretty receptive to that. :)

Some things came up that night - insignificant to this story - so, she never made it out. However, I suggested that I follow up with that beer offer another night, and she accepted.

I was supposed to meet S this past Tuesday, but she had to cancel (dealing with some personal stuff that I won't mention here). She apologized and told me she'd like to try again this next Tuesday. I said, "It's alright...do what you need to do. I'm going out for a couple of drinks regardless, so if you wanna chat, call, whatever, I'll be available."

About a half hour later, just after I sat down with my beer, she sent me a message on FB. So, while I was disappointed that I didn't get to see her, we ended up chatting online for 3 1/2 hours that night. Pretty sure that if she wouldn't have been so tired, we could have easily gone another hour. We got on really well, and it kind of felt like a date, regardless of logistics. It felt very nice. :)

We texted a little bit throughout the next day (yesterday), and then ended up texting for a couple of hours last night. Great, fun conversation. At one point, I went upstairs to check on one of my kids...came back and made mention of it to her. She said something like "Ohhh yeah, you have kids!"

So, let's stop here for a minute.

Like I said, I've known her for a while, albeit not very well. Despite that, we've been MySpace (which I no longer have...good riddance) and Facebook friends for a few years. And I have no idea if she's ever actually looked at those pages, but there are/were all kinds of pictures of my wife and kids on those sites. And throughout all of our recent talking, nothing had ever come up about it. I was thinking, "Wow...she knows I'm married. I guess she's just cool with this. Great!"

Back to the story...

Since it hadn't come up, I said, "Speaking of kids and all that...just so you understand and aren't left wondering, I'm in an open marriage."

This kind of caught her off guard. She seemed curious - not offended - claiming that she'd never known anyone in such a position. She asked several questions about it. I explained that we're not swingers...this is relationship-based, and sex is not the focus. I told her that my wife has had a steady guy for about half a year, and that she knew we were meeting up, etc. I then asked her, "So, after giving you this info...do you still want to hang out next week?"

"Um, I need time to digest all of that (she was a little buzzed, admittedly). You're great, but I just have more to consider now." I told her I understood, and that I'm more than willing to talk more about it when everyone is sober :), and she thanked me for my honesty. Curious, I then asked, "So, you were aware this entire time that I'm married...right?"

Apparently, no.

I don't understand how that's possible, honestly...maybe she thought I was divorced with kids?? I have no idea. I told her that I was sorry...I wasn't meaning to hide anything...I simply thought she knew that. She said it was okay...she should have asked about it.

We ended the conversation by me telling her that I really liked her...felt we connected really well...but I would understand if she decided it was simply not comfortable for her. She replied, "I like you, too. Just gotta process :)"

***

I'm trying to keep with the positive, thinking that while she could come back and say 'no thanks'...there's an equal chance that she'll be up for it. And without seeming to push - because I want her to remain as comfortable about everything as possible - I'd love to let her know that I'm happy to get together next week just as friends instead of a 'date', to talk about it - and whatever else - in person.

Is that a bad move? Should I just shut up about it and let her decide with the info she has?

Ugh. This is frustrating. We really hit it off so well. Seems so unfair to make a beautiful connection like that, and have circumstance looming around the corner, waiting to possibly destroy it. Any thoughts are much appreciated.
 
It seems like you're doing everything right from my female perspective. I don't think it would be pushy to let her know that if she wants to talk to you about it in person you'd be happy to, maybe after she's had a little bit of time to process. I usually find myself wanting more info than less, especially when making big decisions, as long as it's not an overwhelming amount.
 
Some more female perspective ;)

as far as i know, whe are complicated ;) we don't want you to be pushy, and we do not want to make all the moves... and i understand that for you to find the middle road is quite a challenge, especially if not knowing each other for years...

So, 1: trust your gut feeling. 2: keep it light (as you are obviously doing) 3: I personally would love the openness of: "i want to ask you out for dinner with a small or long conversations, but i'm not sure you are ready for it yet." In that way, you make the move, and she can decide the speed! Which is the perfect middle road between pushy, and letting her make the move.

Any other ladies who appreciate that?

Lotsoflove
 
Thanks for the feedback. I bit the bullet and sent her a message, asking about Tuesday...saying that we didn't have to consider it a date, but I'd love to maybe just have drinks and talk...said to let me know if she's up for something like that. I purposefully stayed away from the phrase 'meet just as friends.' I do NOT want to get myself put in the friends box. :) That used to happen to me all the time when I was younger.

My gut feeling is that she's interested, despite the new info. Hope I'm right. *fingers crossed*
 
Thanks, nycindie. :)

So I texted with S a few times yesterday, but she never made mention of my idea...meeting up and not necessarily considering it a date. I'm sure she's still processing everything, and that's fine...but I'm wondering what the best next move is. If Monday or Tuesday rolls around, and she still hasn't mentioned it...make plans with another friend and not say anything about it? Or ask her about it? "So, haven't heard about tonight, and just wanted to know..."

Seems like the latter might border on pushy, but not sure. Finding it difficult to see the line between letting her know I'm still interested and really want to see her, and resigning myself to the notion of "it is what it is."
 
If Monday or Tuesday rolls around, and she still hasn't mentioned it...make plans with another friend and not say anything about it? Or ask her about it? "So, haven't heard about tonight, and just wanted to know..."

Don't be too wishy-washy. I would just say, "I'd really like to see you. What night is good?"
 
Seconding Nycinde's suggestion - firmly put the ball in her court to suggest a day/time that is good for her. She's still texting back. I think that's a good sign.
 
She's still texting back. I think that's a good sign.

I thought it was, too...but I haven't heard a peep since Friday, despite sending a simple message a couple of days ago, asking how her weekend was going. Starting to think she went out with girlfriends, talked about it, and I got labeled as a creep/weirdo/freak/etc. :confused: Wondering if the same thing that happened with M is going to happen here...shot down before I get a chance to present my case in person.

A dear female friend of mine says I have the tendency to be impatient and mindf*ck myself. Perhaps that's what I'm doing. Dunno.

I was telling my wife the other night...I'm finding it ironic that while I thought the 'open' in open marriage meant more connections, more friends, more people...it actually feels a lot more like a scarlet letter so far. Frustrating.
 
I was telling my wife the other night...I'm finding it ironic that while I thought the 'open' in open marriage meant more connections, more friends, more people...it actually feels a lot more like a scarlet letter so far. Frustrating.

being open to more connections also means taking more risks, and that means more chance of being disappointed, more chance of being turned down. It means more waiting for people to text you back, more uncertainties about what people think of you, it means being vulnerable and yes that means you could get hurt. The trick (and I haven't mastered it yet, but I've learned SO MUCH) is to not let that waiting, the uncertainty, the getting turned down, be the main thing. Treat it as something fun you're doing, have other things going, yes make other plans when she's not responding, make sure you have a great life.
Not only does that make the inevitable occasional disappointment easier to take, it also makes you a nicer person to be with, which will decrease your chances of disappointment.
 
I should add that I'm trying to be considerate of any 'processing' space she might need by laying low, since she hasn't been receptive over the weekend. The last thing I wanna be viewed as (besides a creep/weirdo/freak/etc...ha) is pesky.
 
being open to more connections also means taking more risks, and that means more chance of being disappointed, more chance of being turned down. It means more waiting for people to text you back, more uncertainties about what people think of you, it means being vulnerable and yes that means you could get hurt. The trick (and I haven't mastered it yet, but I've learned SO MUCH) is to not let that waiting, the uncertainty, the getting turned down, be the main thing. Treat it as something fun you're doing, have other things going, yes make other plans when she's not responding, make sure you have a great life.
Not only does that make the inevitable occasional disappointment easier to take, it also makes you a nicer person to be with, which will decrease your chances of disappointment.

Yes.

And another thing many people who post here can't seem to accept is that just because you and your partner(s) agreed that you're ok with seeing other people, it does not ENTITLE you to have what you want. It's really gross when people come on here and moan that they're "doing everything right" and no one (they want) will date them, no one (they want) will answer them on OKC, or that "there are no poly people where I live". Welcome to the real world, where some of us spend most of our time, and where you can't always get whatever you want whenever you want it.

(this is not necessarily directed at the OP of this thread, unless it is.)
 
It's really gross when people come on here and moan that they're "doing everything right" and no one (they want) will date them....

This really hits a nerve right now. It's exactly what my BF is saying: I'm doing everything right, so what could possibly be wrong with dating a married man?

The fact is, dating a married man is not going to be appealing to many people. There are some to whom it will appeal, for various reasons, but count on it taking more looking.

(ETA: for the record, I'd really say he is doing everything right, which is what makes it hard to walk away, but I still feel the situation is becoming progressively more unpalatable to me.)
 
Wow, okay. Certainly don't mean to sound gross or unpalatable. Just a noob looking for help with navigating new territory...and while I've experienced some frustration (which I thought was common), I'm fully aware that a good deal of the population isn't into this. I have no delusions of entitlement here. If my posts are unwelcome, then maybe I should seek advice elsewhere.
 
Didn't i say right up in there that it was not directed at the OP, unless it is? Which means that, if the OP feels that it does apply, that's up to him. I am not sitting in your mind and i don't know what you think. But i guess the OP DOES feel entitled to have another relationship after all? Really seriously. Did you come here to have your ass kissed or something?
 
Are you prompting me to say 'kiss my ass'? :D

No, man...I don't feel entitled in the least. Hopeful, though. Maybe I'm sounding a little too detailed with my posts - perhaps a bit too 'step by step', making it sound needy or something? - but keep in mind that I'm not only here because I'm new to the poly idea...but I'm once again new to dating in general. It's been a couple of decades since I've been out there, and I haven't had to concern myself with the behaviors of single (or not) women in quite some time. Maybe my many questions and comments on the subject have been translated as 'entitled' somehow. Or not. Certainly don't feel that. But it did seem like the fact that you mentioned entitlement at all and its gross nature that it was indirectly pointed at me. If not, as you say, then all is groovy.

Shake on it? :cool:
 
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