in over my head

Thanks for moving my post over here to the blog section. I simply need a place to write about what's going on for me. It helps and thanks again for all the comments.

The latest update is good. She has invited me over to meet her kids (while hubby is out of town to minimize awkwardness). Still no overnights but lots and lots of pillow talk last night.

It was a hard couple of days here though. Her husband also wants more excitement but is so introverted that he finds it difficult to meet people. In the past, she said that she functioned as a crutch to get him any action, in the swingers scene. She doesn't want to do that anymore but all of a sudden now he does. She claims she has enough with just me and him but would like him to find someone too. I'm looking forward to getting to know him better because I am great at meeting people and I could help him with that. I think we're getting there.

The other good news is that she has twice now mentioned that I may get those overnights soon. I asked for the moon and suggested every other night but would settle for a couple nights a week. I'm in a state of disbelief. I never expected it to progress even this far. Such a wild ride.
 
Sounds like really good news to me. I'll be crossing my fingers for things to continue along in that direction.

I'm sure meeting up with hubby would be good for everybody. It helps a lot when you can put a human face on the guy that seemed like such a scary source of competition in the past.

Perhaps swinging is more his thing? Who knows; all people are different.
 
Sounds like really good news to me. I'll be crossing my fingers for things to continue along in that direction.

I'm sure meeting up with hubby would be good for everybody. It helps a lot when you can put a human face on the guy that seemed like such a scary source of competition in the past.

Perhaps swinging is more his thing? Who knows; all people are different.

I have met her hubby. Twice now. We felt like it would be less awkward to meet the kids with just me and her and my daughter. It truly was a nice evening. We made pizza then washed dishes together and we all played Apples to Apples. Her younger child has been somewhat troubled and this morning my gf told me that the girl was happier while I was there than she had been in months. I don't think it was only because I brought her some organic m&ms either. I have a lot of charm. Anyway, by her saying that, I feel like she is welcoming me even more into her family. That's how she said I affected her, made her happier than she had been in a long time and is also the argument she made to her hubby when she first told him about me. I see some correlation there.

The idea of her and her husband swinging gives me very mixed feelings though. Ideologically, I am perfectly fine with them enjoying their sex life in whatever safe manner they choose. Emotionally, I feel like adding more people into the mix takes away from the time that she might have with me and adds more drama into her emotional mix.

She said that she's not interested in swinging anymore and even joked about sabotaging their swing profile but the fact that they even have a profile bothers me. I reckon it's something I have to accept.

The alternative is what I mentioned about helping him find someone because it sounds like it is more the variety than just swinging for him. I do understand that swinging is fundamentally different than meeting someone. There's less emotional involvement and the purpose is much different too but it's not something that he has any experience doing as a single. She was his first.
 
Complicated or not, I am in heaven. As I said in my first post, I didn't think I would ever be in love like this again. Last month, when I first met her and started to recognize that we could have something together, was intense. I felt like I was high on X for three weeks straight. It was so strong that I was grateful when the effect lessened and I could think again. Now, it's happening all over again. I am so high on her love. Meeting her children last night was a big big step and we are closer than ever. So good. I hope the energy of this day stays with us through the whole relationship.
 
I take it they still have a swing profile because her husband isn't sure he wants to give it up, and he needs her to partner up with him in a swing setting? If so, then I suppose they will just delete their profile if the time comes that her husband loses interest in it, given that she's already lost interest in it.

So, does her husband talk much about what he wants as far as a poly relationship is concerned? Is that something he might be interested in, and has he said as much?

Sounds like you have a great dynamic with their family and a hopeful chance that sleepovers with her might eventually be countenanced, even if that's not the agreement she and her husband started with.

I think it's great that you are high up on the cloud of NRE (New Relationship Energy), and I suppose it's possible that it might last forever, but you know, in most cases NRE tends to simmer down after awhile so just don't think anything has gone wrong with the relationship if that happens. It's one of those complicated chemistry things ...

So things are good and I for one hope they get even better.
 
Her husband has not talked with me about what he wants except for the first time I met him. Then, I told him that I would back off if he wanted. He said no. She told me that he wants her to be happy and that he appreciates the change in her since she met me.

She seems to have a lot of that NRE stuff today. I have never gotten so many hearts and love texts from her. She just called me sweetie. She's never said that before either. Something has clicked.
 
Sounds like things are warming up and your destiny looks good.

So her husband is at least glad to have you involved with her. Sounds like the makings of a good strong V (emotional triad?) to me.

Okay, side question. You and her husband are both heterosexual guys, yes? (cause if you were both bisexual you could evolve into a full-fledged triad.)

Romance is always complicated, even when it's really really good. (Am I right?)
 
Okay, side question. You and her husband are both heterosexual guys, yes? (cause if you were both bisexual you could evolve into a full-fledged triad.)

We are both hetero as far as I know. Oh, I am attracted to a certain kind of guy but he is nothing like that type. Turns out though that I am going to get to know him better. She finally has his agreement to spend the night with me and with only one condition. Well, sort of two conditions. One is that I realize that this is a "trial" run. (very psyched that that implies the possibility of more nights together) The real condition though is that all three of us go out together the next night. I agreed. I totally want to sleep with her. I would have agreed to almost anything. It's not about the sex. It's wanting my girlfriend to fall asleep with me, snuggle all night, and wake up in the morning.

I do have mixed feelings about going out with both of them. It's her I like, not him, but he's part of her life so I need to accept him. He is accepting me for her. This is going to happen. Any advice?
 
I guess I'd proceed with caution but go along with the agreements the two of them have made. See, when I hear "trial run," I think to myself, "Uh oh, her husband's not really sure he wants this, he is only testing it out once or twice to see if he can stand it." And he may have quite a struggle learning to "stand" it. Lots of guys do the first time they attempt to share their wife, especially in such an intimate way (as some could argue that sleeping together is more intimate than sex). So sorry to be a stick in the mud, but try not to get your hopes too high up there just yet. Sure this might lead to more nights together, or it might lead to him saying, "I can't do this," and then you'll have another long wait ahead of you before you can sleep with her again (if it indeed can happen again).

Is there a chance this could lead to a regular schedule of you/her sleeping-together nights? Indeed there is, which is super wonderful. But in the meantime, all bets are off. We do not know how her husband is *really* going to react to his wife sleeping even one night with another man. Could turn out fine, could melt down into a roiling pit of drama.

I'm sure going out with them will feel awkward at first but I'd encourage you to do it anyway. You need to learn to get comfortable around her husband (and vice versa), a little at a time.

No special advice other than that.
Good luck.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
try not to get your hopes too high up there just yet.
Is there a chance this could lead to a regular schedule of you/her sleeping-together nights? Indeed there is, which is super wonderful. But in the meantime, all bets are off. We do not know how her husband is *really* going to react to his wife sleeping even one night with another man. Could turn out fine, could melt down into a roiling pit of drama.

I think the same thing Kevin, that he is unsure how he feels about it. Let me backtrack a little bit. She did tell me that she was going to ask him again and when she told me that I said, "I really want for you to stay over sometimes but I have let go of it. If you can great, if not that's fine too." See, after last week with the whole swinging issue, I realized that I need to be able to let her go. I'd rather not but saw it as a distinct possibility.

So I changed the way I thought about us and quit trying so hard to guess how it all would go. Acceptance of the moment instead of hope for the future. Unsurprisingly, that made it easier to be all the way there with her when we were together and when we made love Friday, the connection was unreal. She said only one other person had ever taken her there.

That's when she started sending me hearts and professing her love. So there were a lot of changes this week. She came over and we cuddled. I could just cry at what a great cuddle that was too. It was the kind where you feel like one. This was all clothed too. We have many times sat and cuddled but it feels different now. No resistance, openness.

On Monday, her husband sent her the new CNN article about polyamory, Polyamory: When three isn't a crowd. I'm pretty sure it's still difficult for him though because after I agreed to host her Friday and go out with the both of them Saturday she said, "I feel like I've made a mess of things."
 
Oh. How come she feels like she's made a mess of things? Here I was thinking we were making a bit of progress.

I see your relationship with her is deepening and your connection with her is growing ever stronger. I hope circumstances will come together to help aid that process.

Re:
"She did tell me that she was going to ask him again and when she told me that I said, 'I really want for you to stay over sometimes but I have let go of it. If you can great, if not that's fine too.' See, after last week with the whole swinging issue, I realized that I need to be able to let her go. I'd rather not but saw it as a distinct possibility."

Gosh, we're not talking about a conceivable break-up here are we? That would be depressing.

Well, let's see what happens. For what it's worth, I'll keep my fingers crossed regarding your trial sleepover and that her husband will come out okay on the other side.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Oh. How come she feels like she's made a mess of things? Here I was thinking we were making a bit of progress.

Gosh, we're not talking about a conceivable break-up here are we? That would be depressing.

Well, let's see what happens. For what it's worth, I'll keep my fingers crossed regarding your trial sleepover and that her husband will come out okay on the other side.

I think the mess of things that she was referring to was that he had the idea she wanted to stay over with me just occasionally and when she said two or three times a week, it took him by surprise. He told her something like that they would have to get a bigger house with an extra room for me. She told me, "He's been reading too many of those CNN articles on polyamory". I think that when she told me that she had "made a mess of things" all she meant was that it had become more complicated but not in a bad way.

One, he communicated his acceptance of our relationship. The "trial" aspect of our first overnight is because they have not come to an agreement on how frequently she will stay over. Remember, I asked for every other night but, I have to ask myself a little more seriously now how often I really would want her to sleep over. Regularly for sure. This overnight was nice and likely propelled us a lot further along our uncharted journey. So, we all have to come to an agreement. Or rather we have to discover what will work.

Two, he is envisioning a future with me in it too by reading polyamory articles and talking about a bigger house which by the way is not something I'm looking for. I just want a girlfriend. I think that's all I want. And I'm talking about a girlfriend to love not "just a girlfriend". This is all just a bunch of words and often hard to convey the truth of what's going on. It's real though. Real people with real feelings and touching something beautiful. Whatever I write, there is that behind it. It's hard to convey so back to the details.

Kevin, you have to read me a little deeper. No, there is no conceivable break up. Well, I can conceive of it. From the first time that I was ever with her, I told her that I would let her go if having me in her life made her life too complicated. I meant what I said then but actually didn't come to terms within myself of truly being able to let her go until I wrote about it the other day. Still not being clear here... I'm talking about the kind of release implied in the quote, "if you love something let it go. If it comes back to you it's yours". The example being that when I told her again the other day that I would let her go, the result was our first night together. Letting go is not breaking up.
 
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We're all three meeting at the wine bar later. I'm nervous, not incredibly so because I realize that there are benefits in getting to know him better. This was his part of the agreement but when it came right down to it, no plans were made. I had checked in with her a couple times during the day and each time she said that he had not mentioned it and that she didn't plan to bring it up.

That didn't sit very well with me. The agreement was that she could stay overnight with me if we all three went out together tonight. I was counting on it and had to psych myself up even. Finally I told her, "Ultimately, nobody wants to do this. The idea of it is uncomfortable but in fact, when we all get together and sip a drink it will be friends hanging out having a drink. Having fun. You want me too so we just have to face this and have fun." She agreed and we're all going out later as planned. I hope it's not too awkward for anyone but we need to do this. We agreed. It's no big deal, her husband is kind, I'm kind and we are all entangled.
 
Sounds like you aren't necessarily intent on moving in, but you do want a close emotional relationship with a "real girlfriend." On the other hand, her husband is thinking a bigger house is needed so you can move in ... perhaps because he read some where that poly families do it that way?

So, letting her go is a state of mind? detaching yourself from a specific outcome? letting it be what it needs to be? that type of thing?

Sounds like not everything about your wine bar plans has been confirmed. Hope he'll keep his word, and that the three of you will be relatively relaxed in each other's company.

Keep the communication going as much as possible.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Sounds like not everything about your wine bar plans has been confirmed. Hope he'll keep his word, and that the three of you will be relatively relaxed in each other's company.

Keep the communication going as much as possible.

Communication is hard in our situation. Her and I talk about things and him and her talk about things but she is the only avenue of communication between me and him. So it was good to meet again. We had a few drinks, one uncomfortable silence, several words of heartfelt communication, and all culminating in a feeling of understanding and acceptance.

I held her hand or touched her leg the entire evening. He never touched her nor did she touch him. There was no distance between them but the dynamic was mellow unlike our attraction for each other. Yeah, it's the dynamics that intrigue me. Out of respect, I'm not going to describe too much what he was like. It's safe to say that the dynamic was all about the difference between NRE feelings and LTR feelings. He wants the NRE feelings too. He's a bit jealous of that.

All in all it was good and the results are fantastic. We already have our next night on the town and overnight planned.
 
Sounds like a good idea; keep those plans coming.

Do he and she often go out together on special dates, just the two of them? If not, it might be step in the right direction of warming things up between them (though I can't guarantee NRE levels).

You and he will probably get more chances to talk face-to-face as times goes on, which will no doubt help communication matters a lot. But even go-between talk with her in the middle is a start.

Keep on truckin', we're pullin' for ya here.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Do he and she often go out together on special dates, just the two of them? If not, it might be step in the right direction of warming things up between them (though I can't guarantee NRE levels).

It sure is heating up. She came over to visit for two hours before her meditation class and stayed for five hours. Unlike any of her other visits, this time she had her phone off, claimed it was discharged, and didn't plug it in. It wasn't easy for her to leave nor was I inclined to hurry her along. I just wanted to keep her all night but she finally did go only to report that she passed him driving around to find her.

I don't know if she has ever before experienced the continuous intense mutual attraction that we share. I don't think so. It seems to be causing problems with her husband too. He wants reassurance but he employs terrible strategies to get it. He needs to just let her alone and act like it's not bothering him. Anything else he does is just driving her away. She doesn't want to leave him. That's not in the picture but he is making her uncomfortable which undeniably adds more distance.
 
Well how did she and he come to be married in the first place, "if that spark wasn't there?" Just just enjoyed doing shared hobbies together, or they felt they were a good match, or they felt *something* and that was enough?

They need to start dating. Yes, they're married, and I still think they need to start dating again (on a regular basis). If they're already doing that, then it might be time to look for a poly-friendly couples counselor. There should be way for him to communicate his fears/worries/insecurities/whatever to her without making things worse. Solving that problem might take a professional.

In addition to dating, they should be sitting down once a week for a heart-to-heart chat about what's going on. There are strategies for making this chat successful, but for starters, it's just something that needs to start appearing on the calendar.

The last thing you need is for him to develop a ball of fear/resentment that he holds inside even while it grows and grows. Stuff like that can't be held inside forever.
 
Well how did she and he come to be married in the first place, "if that spark wasn't there?" Just just enjoyed doing shared hobbies together, or they felt they were a good match, or they felt *something* and that was enough?

The last thing you need is for him to develop a ball of fear/resentment that he holds inside even while it grows and grows. Stuff like that can't be held inside forever.

You're funny Kevin but unless she's feeding me a lot of bull, that's exactly how they got together, they felt they were a good match. She says that it's always been nice to be with him but never all consuming. She said that when they met twenty years ago, she needed somebody who could calm her down and he's always been good at keeping her calm. That was his forte. So she's had a fire in her all this time and I'm the lucky guy around when she was ready to light it. And no, he doesn't have the spark that ignites that fire. He's an introvert. Seriously, he went to trivia night at the introvert club tonight. She called that progress and said that she has been trying for years to get him to do anything independently outside of the house. I don't think that it's as bad as it appeared.
 
She's probably used to him "not talking" (being an introvert) but he has to start learning the skills of calm, considerate, effective communication. It can only be done through practice (including making many mistakes during the learning process).

She needed only him when she first married him, but now she needs him and you. This is the change that he was never ready for. I'm guessing he knows how to share sexually but not emotionally. Still think a poly-friendly counselor might be something to look into.
 
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