Girls cancelling dates on SO, he's upset, not sure how to comfort him.

Invi

New member
I am very much monogamous.
He is very much not.

I don't like it, I'll admit it. It makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. I'm working on it, though. I love him, so I try.
He's not looking for other long-term partners, though. Just casual, short-term dating.

Earlier this year, he was seeing a girl for several months, maybe once a week if that often. Didn't see her for a couple months after our son was born. A month or two ago, she said wanted something more serious, he didn't, they stopped seeing each other. The end.

Since then, he's had first dates cancelled on him by at least 2 girls, seen 1 girl 3-5 times and stopped seeing her (I think she stopped contact? No idea. I ask some questions about those kinds of things, but not many.), and a week or so ago he went on a first date with one girl who.. I guess was a little too abrasive for his tastes.

He was supposed to go out last night, and the girl flaked out on him. Would have been a first date.

So, we cuddled up and watched a movie, and I thought everything was okay.
A few hours later, I notice it's late, he has to work in the morning, but he's on the other side of the room, super quiet, still on his computer. I asked him if he was okay, what was wrong, if I had done something, etc, and got a bunch of "I don't know"s.
That's frustrating. I can't hold that against him, though, really. I have all kinds of problems communicating, and a lot of the time he doesn't get much more than that from me until I am well past ready to talk.
But. He's not usually like that. And he was like that.. for a few hours last night.

I just let him know I was available to talk, even if it was other girls that were upsetting him.

Right before he went to bed, I asked him if any of it was something I had done, and he said "It's okay."

"It's okay" was not helpful, and led me to believe I had done something wrong, but I have no idea what.
(So after typing all this out, I recall after he told me his date had been cancelled, that the girl had flaked out on him, that he had his hand in the area of his man-bits, and this made me uncomfortable, so I moved his hand because we were cuddling. I think this may have upset him; he said it was something like swatting the hand of a child. It was bothering me because I was still in "He's going out with another girl tonight" head-space and it was making me uncomfortable. I realize this was pretty rude, now. I thought I had apologized for it last night, but I'm starting to think I just thought about it repeatedly and never did. Maybe that's part of the problem.)

Today we were texting while he was on lunch, and he opened up a tiny bit.
Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down.
He did ask me why I would think it's something I did, and why I'd be upset about it now, but that doesn't help me at all as sometimes he asks me why or whether I think he should be upset when he already is.

He got home from work, put away some groceries he'd picked up, got on the computer for a while, came over and gave me a hug and kiss, then went to bed.
Rather, went to lay down. He doesn't sleep for long this early in the evening.

He's still feeling down, and I don't know what to do aside from waiting for him to come to me. He said maybe he needs to go out for a bit, or go to the gym. I guess maybe he just needs some time alone. It worries me, though. The last time he was this down that I am aware of was because someone he knew died suddenly. He was back to normal in a day or two, but he at least talked to me about that.

So I'm at a loss.
He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out hardcore when I do, so I let him deal with it all, and I just hand in the rent and remind him when my phone bill is due since he pays that since I stay home with the baby. So we don't really talk about that.

We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately. It did help a bit. I haven't been as negative about everything as I was. The world seems less dark and threatening, and a little more neutral, though it takes a lot of self-assuring thoughts which are not my strong point; I'm very much a pessimist.
It's a wonder we get along, I think. He's usually such an optimist.

I don't know what "other things" are, so I have no idea if we've talked about them or not. Other things could be me, how down I've been the last couple of weeks, could be the state of the apartment, could be work, could be politics, could be a show getting cancelled, or a product discontinued, or missing family and friends, or any number of things I might have no clue about.

But I would think we could talk about those things?
So I'm wondering if the main thing is the girls.
I just don't know how to talk to him about that.
I just told him I would, that I would listen, no matter what the subject, because I hurt when he hurts, and I worry about him, and I just want to help. :-/

I'm all kinds of open to suggestions from people who have experience in this arena.
Bonus points if you're a mono who is also uncomfortable talking to your partner about your partner's other partners. ._.
 
This is going to sound like I'm completely ignoring your question, but bear with me.

You mention he pays the phone bill because you stay home with the baby. Does that mean you never go out?

You mention you've been feeling down lately. Do you have friends? Maybe a Mum's group? A life outside your SO and child?

Now you're wondering, what does any of this have to do with why my SO feeling down?

A lot, potentially.

I know that when my husband is down in the dumps, I feel like it's all on me to cheer him up. Most of the time, the reason he's feeling down has nothing to do with me, so there's nothing I can do to cheer him up. In your case, if your SO feels like he has to keep your mood up, to be the optimist in the family, that could get burdensome.

So although it sounds unrelated, my suggestion for cheering up your SO is to join a Mum's group, make some friends, and find ways to cheer yourself up outside of your relationship with him. I'm not saying it's your fault, not by a long shot. But it's amazing how much your partner's mood can affect your own. So while it's not your fault that he's feeling down, maybe making an effort to be the optimist for a while can help pull him out.
 
I see the relevance. It could have a good deal to do with it.

We live about 1300 miles away from my friends and family (he doesn't have any here, either). I don't really go out. I don't have the money, nor the transportation. Also, all the mom groups seem to be "full."
I've never been good at meeting people and making friends, so that doesn't help either. I'm not sure I'd make many friends in a mom group, anyway. Somehow I imagine they're very child-oriented, and while my little boy is one of the most important things in my life, I don't want that to be the only interest I share with someone, you know?

I did go shopping with him last week, which I haven't done in months, so that helped improve my mood a bit, being out and about.

I do what I can to keep myself in a good mood given limited resources, but for a while there it felt all doom and gloom, and I'm sure that did take a toll on him.
 
In your case, if your SO feels like he has to keep your mood up, to be the optimist in the family, that could get burdensome.
Especially if he has no outlet to release some of the stress and frustration he feels.

Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down . . .

So I'm at a loss.
He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out hardcore when I do, so I let him deal with it all . . . So we don't really talk about that.

We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately.

We live about 1300 miles away from my friends and family (he doesn't have any here, either). I don't really go out.

So, you two are isolated without friends, family, and low on funds. You've really only got each other to talk to, and you feel that communication is not something you're good at. I bet you are much better at it than you think - you just don't like the subject matter. He needs to, but cannot, talk to you about the two main things that have him upset and depressed. If you want to help him through this (and it's obvious you do), and if you want to get better at communicating, well... you have to start talking. Stop thinking of yourself as so fragile and unable to handle the things you're afraid of. You can do this.

I understand you just had a baby, and are focused on being a mom, but it would behoove you both to sit down together and:

  1. Go over your finances with him. Know what's happening and where every penny is going so he doesn't have to shoulder all the responsibility, and the worrying and strategizing that goes on when money is tight. You, as his partner, should not be in the dark about such things anyway! You don't have to stress about it, just understand your situation so you can budget and plan things accordingly. What are you so scared and stressed about finding out? Whatever it is, you can handle it. If I were you, I'd approach it like a game you want to learn, and with lots of enthusiasm: Invi's Financial Education! Yay, what fun! [seriously!]

    I have a friend who was clueless about money until six months ago when she chose to learn as much as she could -- and now talking about it turns her on! She knows what she needs to feel secure, she has a grasp of concepts that seemed foreign to her before, and she is so confident and proud of herself. Start watching all those money shows on TV, get informed, don't let your husband feel so adrift, alone, and protective over you about something that is so important. Finances are the #1 reason couples get divorced - that's not to say that you're heading for that, but you really don't want to be clueless like Cher was when she and Sonny broke up. When my ex and I were together, he made most of the income, but I handled all the bill-paying and balancing the checkbook. He didn't want to know what was going on, but I would go to him and tell him every now and then whenever we had to watch our spending - and he would freak out! But if he had known all along, he wouldn't have freaked. Knowledge is power! A friend just helped me put a budget together, and I'm so broke it ain't funny, but now I have a plan and when I saw it in black and white, I felt relieved, because the unknown is what is most scary and overwhelming. It could be fun for you both to do together!

    In your other thread, you had mentioned that he doesn't help much with the housework or the baby, but if you could help with checkbook or be aware of the finances, maybe he will feel more partnerish and step up in those areas.

  2. Dig deep into your fears and insecurities, and discuss poly and all the possible ramifications it holds for you. Talk about how you feel regarding his desire for girlfriends, and how his dating affects you. You can't just go along with it, squeeze your eyes shut, wish it wasn't happening, and expect things to go smoothly. Avoidance does you no good. You agreed to poly just to make him happy, but your heart's not in it, and you don't really like it. Perhaps some renegotiating is in order. Maybe you need to put a hold on it til you both improve your communication skills and you work through some of the other issues you have going on. And then come back to it when you have a stronger, more equal partnership, and less unwillingness to face your fears.
 
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Today we were texting while he was on lunch, and he opened up a tiny bit.
Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down.
He did ask me why I would think it's something I did, and why I'd be upset about it now, but that doesn't help me at all as sometimes he asks me why or whether I think he should be upset when he already is.

I do not hear you answering the questions.

1) Why do you think it is something you did?

2) Why are you upset about it now?

3) When he asks you for feedback/reality check -- why not tell him what you think?

You sound very passive in your style. Do you avoid conflict?
http://www.roadtowellbeing.ca/conflict.html


He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out when I do. So I let him deal with it all

I don't get that. Are you saying you would rather have him deal with finances so you don't have to deal with learning stress management so you can be a part of the conversation for your financial health as a couple?

We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately. It did help a bit.

That's good that you are trying. Perhaps something from practical polyamory would help you.


http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

But if it boils down to this...

I don't like it, I'll admit it. It makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. I'm working on it, though. I love him, so I try.

Then why are you together in an Open Marriage? Would you be better Closed?

What does working on it mean if you don't share in his inner life and talk about things? Share your OWN inner life?

Don't compromise yourself if you are not happy and thriving in the open relationship.

Between the isolation from family and friends, a young child in the home, and the shaky communication between you -- sort yourselves out first.

GalaGirl
 
  1. Go over your finances with him. Know what's happening and where every penny is going so he doesn't have to shoulder all the responsibility, and the worrying and strategizing that goes on when money is tight. You, as his partner, should not be in the dark about such things anyway! You don't have to stress about it, just understand your situation so you can budget and plan things accordingly. What are you so scared and stressed about finding out? Whatever it is, you can handle it. If I were you, I'd approach it like a game you want to learn, and with lots of enthusiasm: Invi's Financial Education! Yay, what fun! [seriously!]

  2. Dig deep into your fears and insecurities, and discuss poly and all the possible ramifications it holds for you. Talk about how you feel regarding his desire for girlfriends, and how his dating affects you. You can't just go along with it, squeeze your eyes shut, wish it wasn't happening, and expect things to go smoothly. Avoidance does you no good. You agreed to poly just to make him happy, but your heart's not in it, and you don't really like it. Perhaps some renegotiating is in order. Maybe you need to put a hold on it til you both improve your communication skills and you work through some of the other issues you have going on. And then come back to it when you have a stronger, more equal partnership, and less unwillingness to face your fears.

On finances, me not being involved is his choice.
I have no fear of dealing with the finances myself. I can manage money. I just get anxious when things are tight, regardless of which one of us is doing the budgeting.
He occasionally mentions something when he's actively working on the budget, but that's about it. He knows I would listen if he wanted to talk about it.




For the record, we're not married. Just want to put that out there.

A lot of my fears are hard for me to articulate, and the ones I manage to get out into words are about things that could happen, but not things he's actually looking for.
I don't really think we can negotiate much further.
He goes out once or twice a week, if that. Less so recently, cancellations and such. We have one date night a week to ourselves with no communicating with other girls.
I suggested closing for a few months to work on us, but he was not particularly receptive to the idea. He said he'd consider it, and it hasn't been talked about since. That was on the 9th, I think.

I'm trying to face things, but it feels like I have to face everything at once, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Right now I'm working on keeping myself occupied while he is out, and not reacting negatively when he is talking to girls when he's at home. The latter is proving more difficult overall, unless I start to think about what they may be doing when he's out. Then it's harder to get back to a neutral place.
I understand he views sex differently depending on who is is having sex with at the time (vs overall), but it's difficult for me to see it that way.
For me, sex is sex when it's casual and you're not in a relationship. No big deal. When in a relationship, it's special, and helps with bonding.
I can not have both of these at once without the former threatening the latter, in my head.
He can.

I suppose that's a case of cognitive dissonance on my part.
I know I have a lot of growing to do.
 
I do not hear you answering the questions.

1) Why do you think it is something you did?

2) Why are you upset about it now?

3) When he asks you for feedback/reality check -- why not tell him what you think?

You sound very passive in your style. Do you avoid conflict?
http://www.roadtowellbeing.ca/conflict.html




I don't get that. Are you saying you would rather have him deal with finances so you don't have to deal with learning stress management so you can be a part of the conversation for your financial health as a couple?



That's good that you are trying. Perhaps something from practical polyamory would help you.


http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

But if it boils down to this...



Then why are you together in an Open Marriage? Would you be better Closed?

What does working on it mean if you don't share in his inner life and talk about things? Share your OWN inner life?

Don't compromise yourself if you are not happy and thriving in the open relationship.

Between the isolation from family and friends, a young child in the home, and the shaky communication between you -- sort yourselves out first.

GalaGirl

I think it is something I did because when I asked him if it was, he said he didn't know. When asked again later, he gave a non-answer of "It's okay."
I am upset because I don't know exactly what I did, or if it even is something I did. I'm upset because he's upset and I don't know what to do to help him feel better. I told him those things.

I am passive in a lot of ways. Overall, I'm a fairly submissive person. I do tend to try to avoid conflict, especially if I am already upset.
Thank you for the link, I'll look through it.

I went over the finances thing for NYCIndie. I'm working on stress management on my own. It's helping me to deal with other things.
It's not that I'd rather him deal with finances, it's that he is the one working for the money, he is the one doing the budgeting, and he generally will tell me if there is something I need to know about it. If I was working, I'd gladly do these things myself.

I'll look through that link as well.

I am in this relationship because I love him. Because we share a lot of similar goals, political interests, parenting philosophies. Because it wasn't open from the start, and I told him I would try because logically, it makes sense. Logically, I couldn't tell you why I should have a problem with it. Emotionally, it just doesn't seem to work that way.

Working on it means getting to the point where none of this strikes me as negative. Getting to the point where it is at least neutral, where he can share these things with me and I don't become upset.

I'm dealing with some compromise because I think it's possible to become comfortable with it in the long run, it just may take a long time. I don't know how many posts I've seen here with a relationship starting closed, even with one partner staying mono when it opens, and it taking years for that partner to adjust. I don't really like the idea of it taking years, but I am at least willing to try.

I told him I'd like to close for a while to work on us. We haven't brought the subject back up.
 
I think it is something I did because when I asked him if it was, he said he didn't know. When asked again later, he gave a non-answer of "It's okay." I am upset because I don't know exactly what I did, or if it even is something I did. I'm upset because he's upset and I don't know what to do to help him feel better. I told him those things.

It's not so much what you did. But what he is doing. I'd be upset because by not being responsive he'd be shutting me out of his inner life and denying me emotional intimacy.

It's not that I'd rather him deal with finances, it's that he is the one working for the money, he is the one doing the budgeting, and he generally will tell me if there is something I need to know about it. If I was working, I'd gladly do these things myself.

So you are his dependent. And not even legally protected as the legal wife. He makes all the money and controls all the money and denies you financial knowledge of your couple finances. No financial intimacy?

What stops him from going bananas one day and kicking you and kid out leaving you both homeless and penniless?

Just cuz?

I am in this relationship because I love him. Because we share a lot of similar goals, political interests, parenting philosophies. Because it wasn't open from the start, and I told him I would try because logically, it makes sense. Logically, I couldn't tell you why I should have a problem with it. Emotionally, it just doesn't seem to work that way.

If you are having a problem with it, you are having a problem with it. One part of the couple is not happy. Ergo, this whole couple is not happy with it.

What is logical about plunging on without both people on the same page?

Working on it means getting to the point where none of this strikes me as negative. Getting to the point where it is at least neutral, where he can share these things with me and I don't become upset.

That is not something you can control. Emotion is emotion. You feel whatever you feel when you feel it. It just bubbles up.

I was asking about concrete DOINGS. Not FEELINGS.


What BEHAVIOR does he ALREADY DO to help you feel secure, respected and considered in this couplehood?


  • You have a date night.
  • he could agree to Close to work with FOCUS on your relationship (rather than ignoring request)
  • limit calls to other women when in your presence? Agree to keep it to what? Certain time of day? Not in the same room as you? Not during dinner? Not before bed time with you? (Where is your limit on that? Do you even have one?)
  • what else? What BEHAVIOR do you need from him that he could do to help you feel secure?

What could he do MORE of?

  • share his inner life more with you rather than give you one word answers like "I dunno"
    [*] If not given the chance to practice, exactly how are you supposed to grow strong in hearing about his inner life and developing confidence, compersion, and so on? By magic?​
  • share financial knowledge?
  • do his part of the house chores?
  • do his part of the parenting?
  • help you with transportion problem (share car if you own one? Get bus pass? Can you not drive him to work and then have the car for errands the rest of the day?)
  • what else? What BEHAVIOR could he do more of?

What BEHAVIOUR could he do less of?
  • List the stuff.

What BEHAVIOR do you ALREADY DO to help you feel secure, respected, and considered in this couplehood? How do you consider him in the couple hood?

  • You have started participating here to get feedback from the outside looking in for reality checks
  • List the other stuff.


What BEHAVIOR could you do MORE of to help you feel secure, respected, and considered in this couplehood?

  • take more interest in the finances?
  • could read more poly resources/communication resources/healthy rship resources
  • what else? List it.

What BEHAVIOR could you do less of?
  • not be as passive. Be more assertive?
  • what else? List it.

Things like that. Actual things to DO. Make your lists.

You will feel whatever you feel. But DOING things?

You can check off what he is doing/not doing

  • to meet his own wants, needs, limits
  • to meet your wants, needs, limits

You can check off what you are/are not doing

  • to meet your own wants, needs, limits
  • to meet his wants, needs, limits

Then whenever you feel blah you can pull out your checklists and reassure yourself that YES, he is doing all he can that you asked for to help meet your wants, needs, and limits. You are doing all you can. With your BEHAVIORS to each other. Then you can learn to feel better because the behavior shows your reality. It's not clouded by moods/feelings.

Or if he isn't or you are not doing your behaviours you agreed to do for each other, you can hold the right party accountable.

I'm dealing with some compromise because I think it's possible to become comfortable with it in the long run, it just may take a long time. I don't know how many posts I've seen here with a relationship starting closed, even with one partner staying mono when it opens, and it taking years for that partner to adjust. I don't really like the idea of it taking years, but I am at least willing to try.

Cruise through some of these:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

See if any of that helps you. Esp the opening a monogamous relationship and "safe enough" with the communication and boundaries.

I worry you are too passive and getting run over.

Galagirl
 
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I should probably wait to reply as we're not doing so hot right now.
The first poster was right. It's me. It's me being down a lot and it brings him down and now I guess it's too much.
Sometimes it feels like he thinks I can just flip a switch and be happy with the way things are.

I have told him I didn't really have time to adjust to this before it started, and he says that I have been telling him that for months. I'm sorry? Doesn't make it less true.

I asked him if he wanted me to leave because it seems like I'm just not progressing fast enough for him and what I got was something along the lines of, "it seems like you're always upset with me and I can't be around all that negativity," only more wordy and less blunt.

I'll come back and address your post later, Galagirl. All I'm in a right mind to answer to right now is he always takes his phone calls outside to his car. They're very infrequent, and not a big issue with me except when they run into being hours long.

Tomorrow was supposed to be our date night. I'm getting the feeling I may be spending tomorrow on the phone with my mother making moving plans.

He's not going to want to Close. His freedom to do whatever, whenever is more important to him than any one person, I think, and if he feels like I am asking him to do things that restrict that freedom, I don't think I have a place here.
 
Sigh. I'm very sorry you are going through this. :(

You state several times you are willing to try. If you aren't trying to foot drag but are lacking in support/education/nurture to help you transition well from a Closed thing to an Open thing on top of new motherhood? And as the poly person he's like "Just lump it on your own. And don't be sad at me because I cannot deal with negativity" -- that's just not right.

The kid is not even a year old right? Could you as the mother have post partum depression? You def. are isolated. And you are struggling with Opening on top of new motherhood.

Is this REALLY the best time to be Opening anyway? How can he tend to other partners when he doesn't tend the one he already has well?

Something is just not right there.

His freedom to do whatever, whenever is more important to him than any one person, I think, and if he feels like I am asking him to do things that restrict that freedom, I don't think I have a place here.

Perhaps you are right.

Best to call your mom and get yourself out of there and move toward healing space for you. You are not comfortable with being Open, and you certainly are not going to get better at it with a partner who treats you with such little concern.

Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
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Opening started two or three months after I moved here, shortly before I got pregnant, or at least before we knew. There wasn't really any opening. there was, we were (I assume, having asked him on multiple occasions while we were dating and living apart if we were exclusive) closed, and then we were not. I think Opening implies a process. We didn't really have that.

PPD could be playing a part in it, but who knows? I've had some of the symptoms off and on. It's hard to say what could be PPD triggered in part by stress, or stress from PPD.
Kid is just turning 5 months.

He's not expecting me to just do it on my own, but he can't be giving me constant reassurance either, and sometimes I need more than he is comfortable with. He thinks it starts to sound contrived.
Poor communication is a major issue.
I don't think he's willing to start over and go into this slowly, so it seems like a lost cause, or a lot of discomfort on both of our sides for a long time to get to a better place.

He already says he sees me being bitter towards him, so I don't know what else to do.



I don't know if this is salvageable. I desire more absolutes and structure than he is willing to provide or deal with.
When I discuss boundary agreements with him, he says he'll try, but will make no promises.

He won't promise me a night between dates to reconnect; he'll try.
He won't promise to schedule and let me know about dates at least a day ahead of time; he'll try.

He's usually good about these things, but he's ignored both of them at least once.
I also may have some trust issues with him due to a lie and a lie of omission regarding some girls he was seeing. I know in your world that's a 1-strike kind of thing. These were fairly complicated circumstances, at least with the latter, so I've given him a little slack with it. Forgiven, not forgotten kind of thing.

I'm feeling calmer now, and thus less likely to dwell on leaving, but I think perhaps I should. If he thinks I'm not making any progress and my pace is too slow and all I do is wallow in self pity, then I don't think there's much changing his mind. I can't control my emotions, I can only work on this so fast. I'd gladly buy a switch to turn off the upset, but unfortunately, it doesn't exist. It's a day by day process of reassuring myself and examining why something bothers me (which is incredibly difficult for me) and telling myself why it shouldn't.
As I said before, I see couples on here with a mono partner that has taken years to achieve acceptance of their partner's polyamory. I guess he's not able to wait that long.
 
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This is just my impressions (I am jumping a little broadly to some conclusions, and could be way off).

I see two things, here. One, he really doesn't seem to be doing enough to manage the complexity of being a poly-oriented person negotiating an open relationship with a monogamous partner. He seems to be avoiding some important compromises.

Two, he's not doing well in the dating realm. Rejection leads to insecurity, which leads to more rejection.

Perhaps he really lacks some basic ability to connect, to be sensitive to another person's moods, to listen, to be open. This is something I see in a variety of circumstances, from people who are just naturally very self-focused due to insecurity, to people with something more complicated going on like Aspergers.

To your original post, I was just going to say that he must be experiencing some insecurity due to the regular rejection he's been facing. As I read your follow up posts, though, it sounds like his insecurity is having a bigger impact on your relationship than just him moping around. I don't have any great advice on what to do with this information (or possible information), but think about how it impacts your connection with him.

And do keep in mind that he's facing more rejection than he's probably used to. However well his dating life went when he was a bit younger and single, he is going to have a harder time now that he's can only date women who are okay with him being poly. Smaller pool. And rejection after rejection is probably causing his ego to take a hit, and he may not know how to process that.

But if you're at the point where you're considering leaving, then you have a big decision to make, where you need to think about your own needs, and not about what it takes to comfort him.
 
I am VERY sorry you are going through this. I apologize in advance if what I write is Hard to Hear.

Your situation disturbs me though. You deserve better treatment.

So I'm going to just spit it out. I hope it helps you. It is not meant to hurt you more. I can see you hurt as it is. Again, I am sorry you are going through this. :(

Opening started two or three months after I moved here, shortly before I got pregnant, or at least before we knew. There wasn't really any opening. I think Opening implies a process. We didn't really have that.

So he just DECIDED? One day? BAM! We are Open? :mad: That's not ethical. You cannot make unilateral decisions in a couplehood!

He's not expecting me to just do it on my own, but he can't be giving me constant reassurance either, and sometimes I need more than he is comfortable with. He thinks it starts to sound contrived.

These things you want are NOT constant reassurance or contrived. They sound like reasonable things/boundaries to me. If anything they are very little and incomplete! Look at it written out in plain english:

I want more absolutes and structure for the first year of Open Marriage so I can know what is happening when so I can transition well. Things like...

FOR MY MENTAL WELL BEING
  • Poor communication is a major issue. (Lack of responsiveness a problem)
    • When I ask him what is wrong, I want a response. I do not want information withheld.
    • I want to know about dates at least a day ahead of time
    • When I voice a need, concern, or request -- I want a response. I do not want to be put off with "I'll try" or dropping the subject entirely
  • I want boundary agreements made with me

FOR MY EMOTIONAL WELL BEING
  • I want date aftercare such as a night between dates to reconnect with me
  • I want date with just ME so we can maintain our own relationship tier

FOR MY PHYSICAL WELL BEING
  • sex health info? You do not even mention it. Is he going bareback? Making kids elsewhere? Catching cooties he could give you?
  • postpartum needs? PPD?
  • Help with childcare so you are not running ragged with a newborn?

FOR MY SPIRITUAL WELL BEING
  • what?

WHAT I AM WILLING TO PUT IN
  • I am willing to try, even though it was not a process of Opening and thrust upon me.
  • I am willing to ask about how things are going in his dating life even though I find it awkward
  • I have/have not been given a list of his wants, needs, limits that I could be DOING to help this couplehood transition well. (Not feeling, DOING)

WHAT HE IS WILLING TO PUT IN
  • At this time, he is not willing to communicate clearly or make time to work on us to help me articulate my wants, needs, and limits to Transition Well
  • He is not willing provide or deal with things like honoring my wants, needs, limits that I have articulated by myself so far to help me Transition Well.
  • His freedom to do whatever, whenever is more important to him than any one person, I think, and if he feels like I am asking him to do things that restrict that freedom, I don't think I have a place here. (puts his needs and comfort first)

This is bad/disturbing behavior:
  • makes no effort to relieve my isolation
  • controls all the money
  • Has lied to me twice (direct lie and lie of omission)
  • he thinks I'm not making any progress and my pace is too slow and all I do is wallow in self pity (blaming YOU when he does not change HIS behaviour to help smooth the way?)
  • Ignores my requests (to work on us, slow down the pace, things listed above in boundaries, etc.)
  • "it seems like you're always upset with me and I can't be around all that negativity," (considers you calling him into account you being "negative?" How about owning your own behavior and acknowledging it hurt your partner?)

It's a day by day process of reassuring myself and examining why something bothers me and telling myself why it shouldn't.

It just DOES bother you. Feelings are feelings. Those cannot be changed or controlled -- they just bubble up when they do. Stop trying to convince yourself you should not feel what you feel.

What CAN be changed is BEHAVIOR. So what situation caused the feeling to bubble up? What behavior on his part/your part can be changed next time? To see if the same feeling bubbles up or not?

For example, he doesn't give you a 24 hr heads up on a date. So that can disturb your household routine -- at the very least plans for making you guys dinner and expecting no parent help at all that night. (This is fresh.)

He will not provide aftercare time to reconnect with you after the dates. (This is neglecting current established partner.)

If you bring this to his attention and you get a response like "I can't deal with your negativity?" (This is avoidy blameshifting.)

How are you supposed to feel anything but unappreciated/ devalued in that situation? (You can't feel happy here -- that's for sure!)

And this is YOU not progressing fast enough to embrace polyamory? Why would you embrace this new relationship model? When you yourself are not being shown loving behavior? Who runs to embrace being treated badly?

As I said before, I see couples on here with a mono partner that has taken years to achieve acceptance of their partner's polyamory. I guess he's not able to wait that long.

More like he's not willing to change his behavior to help you any. He's not being the best partner ever here when he neglects you. He's not interested in being a good partner here and there is no relationship here that feeds you. That alone is enough to leave -- there is no relationship that feeds you here.

But this whole thing smells weirder and weirder to me. I cannot tell from over Internet if you are being gaslighted or made to think it is all you or what. Only you know what is going on over there. But your situation is red flagging me. Please be careful over there. :(

Check the Speak Out Loud list. Take it to highlighter. See if anything else on there rings a bell. I'm not saying you are being emotionally / mentally abused. I would not wish it on anyone! But that may help you see more clearly if you are being played.

If you end up with a lot of yellow highlighter all over the place? Don't walk to leave. RUN! Call mom to rescue you and get out safely.

I'm feeling calmer now, and thus less likely to dwell on leaving, but I think perhaps I should.

I think so too! He's not playing fair or ethically. Ugh. He's sounding weird. If he's just not willing to adapt his behavior, you are only going to get more of the same treatment. This is NOT what good polyamory is to me. I am so sorry your first experience of "polamory" is less than ethical and loving and possibly edging into the land of abuse.

I am very glad you are in good communication with your mother though. I think your instinct to get out is right. GO! Call mom! Protect you and the kid!

You deserve to be treated nicely in your relationships. Remember you have dignity, worth, and value even if you are being poorly treated right now.

hugs,

GalaGirl
 
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A number of things about your story scream classic abuser.

  • You're isolated.
  • He doesn't want you involved in the finances.
  • He has decided he'll come and go as he pleases.
  • Any probem you have with his behavior and treatment of you, he is turning around and telling you it's your flaws, insecurities, faults, contrivances, etc.
  • It bothers me greatly that amidst the financial issues, he has money to date other women but won't even commit to taking you out.

This guy is neglecting you, doing as he damn well pleases, ignoring any needs you might have, and he's got you trying to help him cope with his poor little wounded heart because women are blowing him off. Maybe they see something in him that turns them off? I know I do.

I see a lot of my 23 year marriage in what you're describing. Great guy. Everyone loved him. Brought me flowers. Never forgot my birthday or anniversaries. But the rest was there, too. I know I'm just a stranger on the internet. I know it's impossible to really understand a situation or person fully from what we read here. But based on what I'm seeing, I'd say pack up your baby and leave. File for child support. You don't need this.

You deserve better.
 
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Maybe his ego has taken a hit. I doubt it, though. I think he's really just frustrated as far as that part goes, or perhaps he feels like he needs those outings to get away from me and how I've been recently. That'd be ironic, given what put me in that mood.

-----------


GG, you do a lot of editing. lol. I often check posts on my phone prior to having time to reply, and it seems like every time I come back, your posts have grown.

I'm going to just try to answer these in order, whenever I feel like something needs a response, because the newbie is sitting next to me requiring attention every couple of minutes and I don't have the patience to cut this into quotes. I apologize if it seems ramble-y.

Poor communication is usually a problem on my end. This is new to me, him being unresponsive.
Not making concrete plans is not. He has never promised me that he would be somewhere or do something. Not once, because he does not like to make promises he can not be sure he will keep. He wouldn't promise to be somewhere by a certain time, for instance, in case he got a flat tire. So this is not new to me. However, I do think things like when he schedules dates are well within his control and should not fall under that.

He has only skipped aftercare in the form of a night between once. However, he knew what he was doing, evidenced by him coming home and telling me I was going to be upset with him, and proceeding to tell me he was going out the next night.
Today is actually supposed to be our date night. We'll see how it goes.

He is using protection for intercourse. He is not concerned about oral and seems to think I shouldn't be, either.
He does help with the baby.

We're not particularly spiritual people, so I wouldn't know what to say about that.

On the isolation, there are only so many places we can go with an infant, or at least that I am comfortable going to with him. Not really an abundance of smoke-free, baby-friendly, cheap places in Vegas.

Not being able to deal with my negativity was in response to me asking if I should leave. It was part of him saying that it was pretty much up to me and whether or not I thought I could make improvements.
I'll mention here that for about 2 weeks, minus 2-3 days around my birthday, I was pretty down. I didn't feel motivated to do anything, so I didn't. I could hardly communicate, I didn't want to be around anyone, I had complete apathy a good portion of the time as to whether or not the baby was upset and pretty much only tended to him because I knew the feelings were temporary and I love him and know that leaving him to cry is not good for him and not what I want to do. But, at the time, I had no desire to do so. In this time period is when I sent him the suggestion to consider closing, and he said he'd think about it.

About a week ago is when I started feeling better. Now it's been about 4 or 5 days since he started acting all down. (My schedule currently is a bit screwy, so my time-keeping abilities are a little out of whack. I couldn't tell you what conversations we've had on what days for the last week right now.)

I forgot where I was going with that.

anyway.

Most of the time I actually do feel appreciated. He thanks me for everyday, mundane things. Cooking dinner, minding the baby, rubbing his back, etc.

I'll look over that link.

I'll probably call her tomorrow morning since he and I are supposed to spend the day together today. I'll just let her know how I'm feeling and see what my options are and figure out what I want to do from there.

----------------------

WH, as far as I know, all he is usually spending on these dates is gas money. There are a lot of free things to do in Vegas, like advanced movie screenings you can get passes for online.
Unfortunately, most of these things are not baby-friendly. Sitter is not an option, personal preference.

We were talking about going to a drive-in movie the other day, as we would be in the car and if the baby started crying it's simply a matter of rolling up the windows and tending to him. Maybe we'll be able to do that soon.


I find myself not even wanting to think about this today. I just want to push it all aside and see how today goes, then tomorrow, reevaluate, and let him know that it will not work this way.

I appreciate all your responses, though I wonder if I may be making it look worse than it is.
Then I wonder if I just can't see it being as bad because I'm in it.
ugh. much ugh.
 
Yes, I do type a lot but I don't actually expect you to answer back each little point! It's more for YOU to think about in case it helps you in your processing. Internet people just give feedback / other perspectives. You can choose to ignore it or use it however you want. Your life is your life to run.

I find myself not even wanting to think about this today. I just want to push it all aside and see how today goes, then tomorrow, reevaluate, and let him know that it will not work this way.

I appreciate all your responses, though I wonder if I may be making it look worse than it is. Then I wonder if I just can't see it being as bad because I'm in it. ugh. much ugh.

Sigh. I think you see it pretty clear there. It's not fun to digest or come to terms with now that you are shining a light on it.

I'm sorry for all the ugh. I am worried though. Sounds weird over there. :(

Get yourself through this. Do what you have to do -- and put you and the baby's needs FIRST. Do talk to your mother. Be safe.

You don't seem like you need it really, but in case -- more red flags that pop out to me below.

Again -- you are a real live person that has dignity, worth, and value even if you are being poorly treated right now. Remember that!

hugs
GG


--------------------

He wouldn't promise to be somewhere by a certain time, for instance, in case he got a flat tire. So this is not new to me. However, I do think things like when he schedules dates are well within his control and should not fall under that.

Flat tires are an exception, not the rule. One CAN choose to commit to schedules and be punctual MOST of the time like all other people do.

Basically he never wants to be pinned down or held accountable.

You are correct in that his date schedule is something he can tell you. The other lady has to know the date. Why can't you?

he knew what he was doing, evidenced by him coming home and telling me I was going to be upset with him, and proceeding to tell me he was going out the next night.

More lack of consideration and putting his wants/needs first.

He is using protection for intercourse. He is not concerned about oral and seems to think I shouldn't be, either.

Unprotected oral sex can still cootify you.

What is "intercourse?" Penis in vagina? He slaps a condom on to not make more babies? What about penis in anus? Other kinds of intercourse/outercourse? (I do not expect you to answer me. It is for YOU think on.)

He is willing to take risks with his body. That is his business. His body is his to own and maintain and offer to share as he wishes.

Your body is yours to own and maintain and offer to share as YOU wish. To tell you that you just shouldn't be concerned about your own body management or have personal limits/preferences about what you choose to expose your own body to is fresh and uber disrespectful!

He is not entitled to using your body however he wants. You share your body as YOU decide.

We're not particularly spiritual people, so I wouldn't know what to say about that.

You do not have to belong to an organized religion to know if you are happy all the way down to the Soul or not. To know what feeds your Soul to make it sing out with joy and feel really, really ALIVE! Joie de vivre!

Not really an abundance of smoke-free, baby-friendly, cheap places in Vegas.

I am sure you have a public library, a bookstore, a mall to walk in, McDonald's, a grocery. So you do not have to be out in the desert heat but get a change of scene. Sling the kid and get YOU aired out. Newborn baby won't give a patootie where baby is so long as mama is there too. It's not about where you go with baby to air out. It's about Daddy not being concerned about mama's well being enough to air her out anywhere. At all.

for about 2 weeks I was pretty down. I didn't feel motivated to do anything, I could hardly communicate, I didn't want to be around anyone, I had complete apathy a good portion of the time, struggled to care for baby. In this time period is when I sent him the suggestion to consider closing, and he said he'd think about it.

This is severe neglect. You experience a VERY difficult period, perhaps PPD related, ask him to pause dating for a bit to focus on home life responsibilities and give you needed nurture and support and does he do it? Nope.

Not being able to deal with my negativity was in response to me asking if I should leave. It was part of him saying that it was pretty much up to me and whether or not I thought I could make improvements.

I still don't hear where he will make changes to his behavior toward you. It's all on you. To just cope. And basically that means "Just take it or leave it. I ain't changing my ways."

Cuz he's totally fine how it is. Other than you shutting up so he doesn't have to deal with your "negativity" any more when you voice your stuff.

Most of the time I actually do feel appreciated. He thanks me for everyday, mundane things. Cooking dinner, minding the baby, rubbing his back, etc.

That's nice. Thanks for giving to me. I can do minimal verbal thanks for that so I can keep on getting these services I like from you. Talk is cheap.

In my walk? In my actions and behavior? How I give back to you in creed and deed? To show you I appreciate, love you, and take you into consideration as my partner? I am DOING this by _______?

You have a skewed relationship dynamic there.

If the choice he's giving is take it or leave it? And you are thinking about leaving it? Leave. You are not being fed here in this relationship. You are being drained. You deserve much more and much better treatment.

But be careful in leaving if when you highlighter that speak out loud list you see mega red flags waving. Only you are there and can tell what level this is at in your real life. If you ARE being abused (emotionally or mentally counts, you don't have to be punched for it to be abusive) the leaving time is the dangerous time. Abusers can retaliate. DO leave, but leave safely. :(
 
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This seems very simple to me. First off, a conversation and a process when moving from closed to open is not too much to ask, but, well, that's water under the bridge. Let's look instead at where you are now.

A single night between dates is not too much to ask. A single day's notice before a date is not too much to ask.

You know what *is* too much to ask? Reserving the right to complete spontaneity despite having an infant and a partner at home. You can't build a family with no obligation to be there for them reliably. Poly =/= whatever you want whenever you want it.

Either he doesn't know how healthy, reciprocal relationships work or he doesn't care. If I were you I'd offer him one last opportunity to change his ways and then I'd go.
 
So I called my mother yesterday morning to see what my options are. Financially, this could be pretty difficult. By land or air, the trip would be worst for the baby. Twenty four in a car? Five hours on my lap in a plane? Not even really considering the latter. Our car seat is not approved for flight as far as I know, and holding an infant during any turbulence doesn't strike me as particularly safe.
I also spent like an hour talking to my dad. We don't usually talk much at all, so that's something.

I haven't said anything to my SO yet. I want to be sure I'm ready to actually follow through with it before I say anything.

I feel kind of rotten because to me this very much feels like an ultimatum. I don't want this. I never did. I don't want to renegotiate. I just want out of it, but I know I'd very likely stay if he decided to be mono in our relationship. I guess it's not an ultimatum, though? I have no intention of saying, stop this or I leave. Just, I am seriously considering leaving, and finding out what my options are, and I would like to discuss this and matters dealing with our son calmly, as adults.
It feels like the same thing though. Ugh.
 
It is not an ultimatum -- you are not saying he cannot live his life the way he wants it. He can go on all he wants.

It is not an ultimatum to think about leaving a situation that YOU do not want to be in. Because you can live your life the way YOU want. Because you deserve to be treated nicely. You have dignity, worth, and value.

You have the RIGHT to live your life in a way that feeds you. You choose who you want to be with.

You want a monogamous romantic relationship. He will not provide that. (There's also a whole bunch more weird there.) Therefore you cannot be in a romantic relationship with him. That is about it.

My sister has flown with her baby a lot more than I did with my kid -- but she went with her spouse so they could take turns holding him. It might be worth getting two seats so you can put baby in a proper baby carrier so your arms get a break. It is free to call airline and get info, so why not check it out? Just to really look at the option before dismissing it.

Since you are not given access to finances?

Could also call Nevada DCF (You are las vegas right?) to see if there is "leaving aid" available in your situation. You have a place to go, right? Your parents. So some help getting there would be great if you are struggling with cost.

Could also maybe call up some churches? Sometimes the minister has "minister discretionary funds" to be spent however the minister deems fit. Once you land with the parents and are better settled in your new life you can make your thanks and repay/donate funds to help some other person in that community out of a bind. I know my UU church gives the minister funds for the "minister discretionary fund."

Just some ideas -- again, free to call to ask for information. You aren't hurting anyone by seeking info. Maybe other readers have more ideas.

It's good you talked to your parents. Hang in there!

GL!
Galagirl
 
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I looked at the site of the airline I use, Southwest (yay cheap?), and they only allow FAA approved restraint devices, which we do not have one of and I am not sure how much one would cost.

What we'd be looking at is my mom driving out here in her car with her husband to get my things and me flying back while they drive, or all of is fitting into a car, hopefully borrowed from family because her car is not going to fit three of us and a car seat and my stuff. I would just ship most things, but I have a hand made cradle my grandfather made for us so I'm wary of that. Everything else can be compacted.

And I just have a bad feeling about flying with the baby. I don't know why, but it's making me uncomfortable.

I feel like telling him is going to be the hardest part. It doesn't matter how many times he has told me I can leave if I feel that would be best, whenever it is mentioned after he gets very upset. Not like angry upset or anything, just sad, and probably a little disappointed.
Sometimes I think he does not understand that I do love him, I just do not love this. Seems like he thinks they are one and the same.
 
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