Marriage in the Poly Context... Sharing and Seeking Advice

saudade

New member
Preface: I'm new to the forum, and minimally internet-proficient. I looked at the other threads with 'marriage' tagged, and didn't find quite what I was looking for. If there's other threads around here on this topic, please by all means refer me. Thanks! ALSO, I'm wordy as hell, because there's a lot of context to explain why I'm asking... I hope that's not too much of a bother.

Here's my big question: If it's applicable to your relationship situation, I'm curious how a legal marriage impacts the larger 'formation'. Is there anything you're doing, big or small, that keeps that dynamic functional?

My context: My partner K and I (our relationship has always been a poly one) were just getting engaged a year ago when Z and I began dating. It quickly became clear to us all that we made sense as a V relationship, and so that's how we're functioning... and K and I are still planning to become legally married this coming fall.

For K & I, getting married makes a lot of legal and emotional sense. Before Z came into the picture, I always pictured K & I as a hub that others could join onto, into whatever 'formation' made good sense. We're also keenly aware of the legal benefits marriage provides, and we plan on using them to bolster our defenses against outside issues. (For example, I don't think any of our parents would ever contest custody of the children we'd like to have, but in the U.S. it's apparently not a risk to ignore.)

Z has known about all of this since before we started dating. He hadn't ever considered trying poly before getting involved with me, so this is new emotional territory for him. There have been bumpy patches, but we're all committed to working through them.

In our little vee, we've already found some answers that work for us. At the wedding, Z will be the best man, and he's having a collar custom-made to match my wedding dress! :cool: Z and I are also talking about having our own (non-legal, sadly) wedding in a couple of years, at which point we'll tie down a lawyer until we can afford Z as many marriage protections as we possibly can. (In Massachusetts, we should do pretty well.) We've also tentatively agreed that Z will have biological paternity, at least of our first child.

... Anyone else tackling this sort of thing?

<3
 
Hi Saudade,

Yes - I believe you may find a few experienced people here having some experience in this. Hopefully your post catches their eye !
There has been considerable discussion here that I've seen highlighting the possible legal implications in particular. I think the most promising concept I've seen to cover some of the bases is the formation of a LLC. I think it's something worth at least learning about and consulting a qualified attorney.
Please keep us all posted about things you discover.
With the continued growth of the poly community these are issues that will become important to growing numbers of people.

Thanks.

GS
 
Hey there Hi there Hello there saudade

My wife and I were married in a non ploy relationship before we meet or Sweet sweet nikki. But had we known then what we know now what you are doing sounds exactly the way we would handle it. My wife and I have talked about how we can give nikki a felling of having stock in our impending relationship. I too think the best thing to do is get a lawyer to to draw up some legal doc to to make your "not so marriage marriage" actually have a leg to stand on.

Cool thing about my situation is that we all already have the same last name :)

hope it all works out for you

Polytriad
 
I know these are morbid comments and not exactly what you asked, but it's the kind of thing that people tend to avoid because it's uncomfortable, but which can cause so much pain for those left behind at the worst time to deal with bull****

Something you'll definitely want to have in place which no one likes to think about is iron-clad wills for all three of you, outlining exactly what will happen if something happens to you and your husband, or you and Z, etc. If you and Z are killed in a car crash, you want to make sure Z's parents can't take your kids away from your husband. So then it's really important for Z to have a will saying that he wants the kids raised by your husband. If you and your husband die, you want to make sure that Z won't have his home taken away from him (assuming he's living with you).
 
I don't think you were being morbid at all SchrodingersCat. Practical perhaps.

There are alternatives to marriage when it comes to securing assets, possessions and each other.

Wills are fine but a will alone can get tied up in probate court which costs time and money. There are also inheritance taxes. A more secure route, which includes wills, is estate planning.

Estate planning includes a will, a living will or health care proxy, assignment of power of attorney and a trust. There are nifty software programs out there that allow you to handle all of this, or if you have the means, you can hire a lawyer to do it for you.

It may be useful to look up the difference between Tenants In Common and Joint Tenancy in regards to owning a house together in a poly configuration.

One thing I have found interesting is the action of forming a corporation. I've dug a little and it is recommended in some poly places to form an LLC. The general recommendation seems to be towards forming a corporation or creating a living trust but not both possibly because it may be redundant in areas.

Some of these things I came across while doing business research for something altogether unrelated to polyamorous families, some while looking up poly related things, and some related to myself as a person who doesn't want to get married yet still wants to protect their family. I am "single" in the eyes of the law which causes problems with healthcare and more.

When I use the word family, it refers to those who I intentionally choose and who intentionally choose me to share life and love, accepting and affirming all that we are as human beings.

I've included a few poly links which speak about these topics.

Polyamorous Percolations: The 2006 Poly Living Conference: Notes and Impressions (keyword to ctrl + f would be corporation)

PolyFamilies: Polyamory for the Practical (from the Polyamorous Misanthrope)

Polyamory and Legalities (subtitled "Marriage and the Legal Benefits," another from Polyamorous Misanthrope)

Suze Orman also likes to babble on about living trusts and wills and other things about protecting your family. She has pretty good info. Buying/borrowing some books about financial and estate planning may be helpful as well.

~Raven~
 
Awesome

Raven,

That was great ! Thank you.
This topic has come up various times in bits & pieces so there are quite a few good links in some of the links you provided- now in one place.

It also dawned on me that if anyone chose to seek legal counsel and was unsure of discussing such things with a possibly conservative biased attorney, one place to think about would be the list of affiliated attorneys listed with NORML. I would make a leaping assumption that any attorney liberal minded enough to support legalization would likely be liberal (and maybe curious) enough to do a good job with poly legal affairs.

GS
 
My wife and I were married before we became poly, so this has been something of a topic of discussion between us. We're not interested in secondaries... ultimately we're interested in expanding our family. The legal and emotional logistics do seem challenging though... the tip about NORML is certainly appreciated.
 
Thanks, all, for sharing! There's so much to consider legally in making this work.

I'm also curious to hear about non-legal methods of making a situation like mine work. K and Z and I talk often about making sure Z feels included and supported, regardless of legal status. (As a random example, Z and I are monogamous shower buddies!)

I'm curious to hear how everyone else handles their dynamics.
 
LR and I are actually discussing this ( sorta ) topic. Marriage that is. To me Marriage holds a symbol of rank in the commitment of love. Lr does not believe in ranking love.

I understand her point of view about this matter and I dont fault her for being who she is. On the other hand I am ME and I have to be true to myself best that I can. I havent worn my wedding band in a few months ( accept on special occasions).

The thing is, other than the financial benifits and the security of the kids, What does being married matter? I will care and love for LR anyways. Im commited to her and will remain so. So honestly, what besides mortal worldly benefits ,does a piece of paper and a cerimony mean?

Sorry if I sound cynical. Im struggeling with this concept right now and .......Just Dazed and Confused Life of Maca:confused:
 
The thing is, other than the financial benifits and the security of the kids, What does being married matter? I will care and love for LR anyways. I'm committed to her and will remain so. So honestly, what besides mortal worldly benefits ,does a piece of paper and a ceremony mean?

Sorry if I sound cynical. I'm struggling with this concept right now and .......Just Dazed and Confused Life of Macao:confused:

Hey Brother, we all struggle with stuff. I also struggle with the concept of marriage and joining ceremonies. My traditional programming coupled with my mono nature makes it a very weird concept. Marriage and commitment in a public sense carries with it a one on one expectation and intimate/sexual exclusivity. I love RP in way I have never before and yet declaring that commitment leaves me baffled...what are we saying to ourselves and to those that would witness it? I love you? I say that every day, all day. That's why I am not in a rush to finalize my divorce even after 18 months of seperation. To me, I don't see how that will allow me to be any more committed. I'm committed now just as though we were married...but, I'm not contained by external forces which makes our relationship even more special in light of all the work we have put into it. I WANT TO BE HERE!
 
The thing is, other than the financial benifits and the security of the kids, What does being married matter? I will care and love for LR anyways. Im commited to her and will remain so. So honestly, what besides mortal worldly benefits ,does a piece of paper and a cerimony mean?

@Maca, it is hard. In figuring this shit out ourselves, the answer I came up with, and I suspect K and Z agree, is that the social recognition of marriage is what matters. We want a public ceremony with our families and friends in which everyone agrees, "S and K are getting married. They plan on being together for the rest of their lives, and we support them in that intention." :eek:

I feel like I'm especially craving that support and recognition from the people in our lives because what we're doing romantically is so controversial. We're already out to a majority of the wedding guests, and we're seriously weighing coming out to the rest. (Basically, that means coming out to K's and my extended families, some of whom are conservative politically and/or religiously-- our immediate families and friends know about Z already.) That's also why I want Z and I to have a wedding in a few years, even if it carries no legal benefit: it's important to us that the people we care about are able to show support for us, and the life we are leading. I'm also appreciative of how the social institution of marriages and weddings gives us a venue for requesting that kind of support! :p
 
I can see and appreciate where your heart and where your desires are. I will chew on this for a bit more. Being a two time loser ( in what I believed marriage meant) Im skeptical. But one thing Ive learned is that fear based ideals are often misplaced. So thanks for your point of view it may just save whats left of my marriage.



Maca
 
Now that he's left the computer I'll chime in.

We're not really looking at having a commitment ceremony-though the first post sort of sounded that way.

Really the issue is that if I have a lover (GG) what does our marriage MEAN?
Maca's definition of marriage leaves no room for ANYONE but husband and wife 100% committed to one another.
My definition has never been that or even similar to that, but isn't really pertinent to the discussion at hand. :)

The reality is that much as Mono said-I love Maca, I don't NEED to prove it to anyone else, I know it inside of me like I know when my stomach hurts.
Likewise I love GG and I don't need to prove it to anyone else because I know it inside of me the same way.
There are others, who aren't "lovers".
I simply don't identify "love" as being such a singular concept. I can and do love all 4 of my children, my sisters and brothers (full, 1/2, step, foster), Maca, GG etc with a deep, all-encompassing love.
I don't "rate" them and I don't find that it's necessary to. They are all "my loves", period.

But it's never been so for Maca and so he's struggling to find himself in light of wanting to be with me, but not wanting to share me, not only with a lover, but with anyone.

As for ceremonies-I think that it's good to have one so long as you know what it is you are doing it for.
As for ensuring security of relationships, particularly in poly situation, it's IMPERATIVE to cover the details outlined previously.
Because laws limit rights and if those rights matter to you, you better cover the details before something happens to one or another of you and tragic heartbreak occurs ALSO.
 
Maca's definition of marriage leaves no room for ANYONE but husband and wife 100% committed to one another.
.

And yet again me your hubby are alike. Because of this I have a hard time with the concept of marriage in multi-partner non-monogamous relationships. I fully realize that this is mostly conditioning but regardless, it does not mean I can just turn these feelings off anymore than someone can turn off the love for a wayward child.

At one time I would have said I could just play the part and act my way through a ceremony but that is not the case. When I understand the concept of non-monogamous vows within my heart, then I will be ready to say them. This is not one sided either. As hard as it is to say, hearing Redpepper say vows to me would be the same..I would wonder what they meant and what power they have. What difference would they make to us and those who witnessed them?

And this does not even touch on the affects of what my family/friends would be thinking. Essentially I would be getting an unknown validation from the community I barely understand. The community I do understand would probably judge and see it nothing more as an excuse to get drunk and three drinks into it there would be a fight.

My work continues!
 
Yes Mono-I know. ;)

I have no issue with that feeling. I agree wholeheartedly that people should not take vows that they don't comprehend.

Too bad more Mono people aren't so picky! ;)

MUAH!!!!
 
Funny word, that commitment...

If someone is committed to being a good friend, no one interprets that as not having any other friends.

If someone is committed to being a good student, it doesn't mean they won't do any learning outside of school.

If someone is committed to being a good parent, it doesn't mean they might not adopt or foster other children.

So why does commitment in marriage carry this association with exclusivity?

I'm committed to keeping my promises to my husband, treating him with love and respect, supporting him when he's going through trouble and sharing his joy when he's in good times. Those are the things I was thinking of when I said "I do."

The default legal vows where I live include the exclusion of all others. I actually feel that the ceremony and vows themselves were just a formality. We were already committed before we made it formal. Getting married wasn't even a legal issue because of Canada's common-law legislation, we already shared every right given to married folk.

I often hear my friends say things like "he's a really great guy, I can imagine being together when we're old" and I feel like that sentiment is missing something. My opinion has always been: it's not that you should be able to imagine your life with them forever, it's that you shouldn't be able to imagine yourself without them. That's what marriage means to me, and that has nothing to do with the other people that may come into our lives.
 
That is SUCH an awesome post!!!
Schroding, you should print that one and frame it!!!

I completely FEEL that post in my soul!!
 
Hijacked by Maca on LR's Account...

Funny word, that commitment...

If someone is committed to being a good friend, no one interprets that as not having any other friends.

Where does the term "BEST FRIEND " come into play? I agree that it dosent mean you cant have ANY other friends but there is the almighty "BEST FRIEND"


If someone is committed to being a good student, it doesn't mean they won't do any learning outside of school.

Again I agree but why do we pick a major? And once we have picked a major we gear our learning towards that field.Even after finishing school the direction we gravitate towards for further learning is influenced by a commitment to a direction of learning.



If someone is committed to being a good parent, it doesn't mean they might not adopt or foster other children.

When it comes to children I totally agree. Once you have a child I believe that you no longer have an option to commiting your self to there well being.Also if you make a choice to adopt then you are commiting that same commitment that you would to a natural born( by you) child.

So why does commitment in marriage carry this association with exclusivity?

It only carries that association to exclusivity if that is what YOU believe it means to you. Every person is different and has a right to decide for themselves what the commitment of marriage meansto them.



The default legal vows where I live include the exclusion of all others. I actually feel that the ceremony and vows themselves were just a formality.

Where you live is it not allowed to write your own vows? I dont know all the laws in the different parts of the world, but if it is legal then why would you say " I DO" when you do not believe in that? If it is the law then back to my first post that I made on this thread. Why get married? I can understand if it was for financial or security purposes but if you ( by law) have to agree to something that you dont believe in why do that??


Just someofmy thoughts. Im by no means arguring with you or saying that your opinion'sdont matter. Im only trying to get a better understanding.


Maca


We were already committed before we made it formal. Getting married wasn't even a legal issue because of Canada's common-law legislation, we already shared every right given to married folk.
 
love trumps paperwork

Sisterinlove and I have been married for 2+ years and we have recently created a trio. my new girlfriend is still absorbing the whole poly idea and concept so we are taking things slowly - she has expressed that her idea of a future with me included being married - this brought pause for only a few moments before my wife offered the proposal that if it is that important to her, and that kind of security is what she needed then she would be willing to dissolve the "paper" and even be willing to perform a wedding ceremony for us. Obviously this is something she had considered prior to the conversation and something only she could offer. She and I realize that we are going to be together and love each other no matter what and we are willing to do what is needed to bring security and comfort to my girlfriend. Don't go ringing wedding bells just yet lol - as I said we are taking things slowly and if/when we reach that place we'll make an announcement.

either way - use the system to your best advantage either financially or personally, prior to the discussion we had discussed a handfasting ceremony - celtic wedding tradition - to seal a "marriage" bond that while not recognised by the government would mean the same to our hearts as a symbol of our love. My advise.... don't let ink, paper and beauraracy be a barrier in any measure.
 
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