Sailing Solo

This reminds me of a thread that came up recently, about texting when one is running late.
Prof sent me "i'm on my way" at 8:12 and walked through the door at 9. It is a 10 minute drive.
I had already told him that I can't do late nights mid-week and i f he wants 2 episodes of something he needs to be here at 8:30, cause we always talk a bit, watch a bit of tv and have sex, plus I was kind of making dinner, a reheat plus fresh salad and garlic bread. While I wasn't really angry, I was a bit bit miffed and had started the bedtime shut down routine. So we talked about it again. Sounds really petty when I write it down, especially as I cancelled the night out due to flaky ex.
I did tell him that I appreciate his understanding over the singleish mummy inflexibility. He said it works right now as he has much going on at work and me going to sleep early means he gets to go home and work.
We had some nice sex, if a bit quick, and he stayed in bed cuddling until I fell asleep then let himself out. It was very comforting and nice to have him there and I told him so. Baby steps.
Much as I whinge, I am glad to have them both in my life they are fundamentally good men.
 
I totally understand the time thing. Time is -by far- my most precious commodity. I don't care if you're going to be late, but LET ME KNOW so I can put that time to more productive use.

It's really, really aggravating.
 
Thanks Evad, Nice to know there are more of us out there!
If he was coming from a greater distance it would be more understandable, but it is really very close. It was one of those times when your expecting someone any second, so cant relax or get started into something else, as you said.
Hopefully the message got through this time, it is not the first.
Kip is like me, to the minute or texts if he is going to be even 10 minutes late, not because I make him, but because that is the way he is too. He is amazingly punctual even if travelling from much further away, he lives about 30 minutes away but is often coming from work meetings, well over an hour drive.That's a funny, to measure distance by time. Not 27 miles but 30 minutes.
The one time Kip and Prof met, Prof was 45 minutes late, no text. Kip is still peeved about it.
I was re-reading the "John Cleese" accredited letter of sate of alerts, I think it is a hoot, peeved, slightly miffed, cancel the barbie!
Slightly miffed is a fabulous expression. Not angry, or even annoyed. just miffed. :D
 
Thinking about the holidays and how nice it is not to have to worry about ex getting falling down drunk at the in-laws.
The last 2 Xmases we were together were pretty miserable my main recollections are him being so drunk Xmas eve, he couldn't help me put one of the kids bikes together and so drunk Xmas day he couldn't eat dinner.
The last 2 with me and the kids have been great, we do our pressie unwrapping, skype the family and go meet some friends.

As Xmas day falls on a Weds, I wonder if Prof will cancel, or come back in the evening, or skip the week. I am interested to see. I don't think the ex will take the kids for his share of the vacation, so I will be at home with them. Good for Prof if he has something more interesting to do! I can't offer much more than tv and sex ;)

I have time off over the holidays, so hopefully can get in some extra time. Maybe do some stuff with the kids. They like him and he is good with them. His kids are all grown up.

Kip is back from his trip (2 weeks with the in-laws) before I go back to work, so hopefully get in some extra time with him. Tennis, hahaha.

No pressure to make a fancy dinner, I fancy toad-in-the hole with veggies and a ton of cake.

Solo poly totally rocks :D
 
IM confusion.
Kip is coming across as not very ok with me seeing Prof, but apparently he is not jealous.
We talked a bit by phone too.
The whole IM chat was so weird and insecure sounding that I picked up the phone to get some clarity, but he was driving and it was hard to talk. He was asking about BDSM play, the amount of time that I saw Prof etc. He loves chatting about dates and the online dating but has pretty much been DADT about Prof for ages. We are planning another 3 way for New Year too, maybe that is what kicked this all off.
He says he is not jealous and does not get jealous. Now, I could be projecting, but I am in a good mood, feeling up, so not sure how I could be reading too much into it.
I said that I was not looking to replace him, the sex with him was not lacking in any way, dating Prof is better than dating monos who would most likely not be OK with me seeing a married man, open relationship or not.
I am wondering if it is his trip away.
Anyway, I am seeing him tomorrow, so maybe he will bring it up in person.
Should I bring it up? Is this a communication moment? My inclination is not too.

Prof might be popping round tonight, funny text , said he would like to watch an episode on tv, but too tired to play.
I have been forewarned, there is no sex on the schedule :rolleyes:

Kip is asking about sex that isn't going to happen !
 
Epic communication failure, I deserve a medal for this one. This happened last week.
Kip has been under the impression that I have not been sleeping with Prof since the 3way in August or whenever it was.
I have looked back over messages and things and see where it went wrong. Kip's DADT was don't ask cause you are not sleeping with him and don't tell cause there is nothing to tell.
How it has gone on this long is a total mystery. We have been trying to set up a couple swing and another 3way with Prof and one his occasional FBS.
He knows I see Prof, asks about him etc, knows he comes round here, the couple of times he did ask if we had sex, I honestly answered no, cause we hadn't. And was not giving any extra information about when we did have sex due to the DADT.
Let's just say I was stunned when Kip asked if I was looking forward to having sex with Prof since it has been such a long time. I said I wanted to continue a sexual relationship with Prof and Kip said that was fine by him. Would have been interesting conversation if he had said no.
So this explains all the kind of insecure questions, as Kip thinks Prof and I are restarting a sexual relationship. eek.
Wow. Just wow.
So first restart date tonight with Prof.
 
Lies, lies, lies

I saw Kip yesterday morning. He dropped his phone on the street outside my place and someone called his wife and took it and dropped it off at the library.
Long story short, screen was broken, Kip said he didn't want it and I could pick it up and let the kids use it for angry birds.
I bring it home, turn it on and up pops his OKC page.
Next the yahoo mail page.
He has been a busy busy boy.
We have discussed this many many times. He is not meeting people, he is not hooking up, he does not have an OCK or POF profile.( single ) I was the one who actually suggested OKC to him a while ago. He did not like me seeing Yo or Prof because they had multiple partners, STD risk is too high. Prof was OKed again as he has shut down outside dating due to S.
There were hotel receipts, lucky ladies, no laundry! Addresses, meeting times and places, thank you for the great fuck messages.
Wow. So many lies over so much time. Dude should delete his mail more regularly and password protect his phone. Idiot.
So now what? What is my problem with this?
No problem with the web cam chats, pic exchanges and meets. No problem with having other sex partners. Big problem with the hypocrisy over multiple sex partners, big problem with the lies.
He had another big share yesterday, including no other sex partners but me and the wife since he met me. So the lie was as recent as yesterday.
We have been fluid bonded for nearly a year.
Options as I see them at this point.
Pretend I never read the mail carry on as if I know nothing.
Ask him about it directly.
Ask him about him indirectly.
Re-institute condoms without saying why.
Re-institute condoms with discussion.
Ignore him.

He wants to be "kept in the loop" about my dating but doing all this behind my back? I really don't understand the need to lie. I just don't. Wanted to know about my date and sex with Prof on Wednesday. He had a nice fuck last week, why not share those details?

Please feel free to comment if you have any thoughts. I was contemplating putting this on the boards but stuck it here instead.
 
Don't you dare even think about pretending it didn't happen!

UGH!!! Fluid bonded and this is how he conducts his sex life? Yeah, maybe he used protection and tried to keep things as safe as possible with them, but if he's been that dishonest and lacking integrity all this time, I doubt it!

Honey, get tested right away. Of course, you need to abstain from risky sex for a while until you get the results. But if I were you, I'd end it completely. He has utterly disrespected you!

Lies, lies, lies . . .

He wants to be "kept in the loop" about my dating but doing all this behind my back? I really don't understand the need to lie. I just don't. Wanted to know about my date and sex with Prof on Wednesday. He had a nice fuck last week, why not share those details?

And that is exactly what I would say to break it off, if I were you:
You want to be "kept in the loop" about my dating and sex life, but yet you were sure going at it with other women behind my back! Just me and your wife since we met, huh? I really don't understand the need to lie. I just don't. You wanted to know about my date and sex with Prof on Wednesday. Well, you had a nice fuck last week, why not share those details with me? On second thought, never mind - I don't want to know, because it's over and I am done with you. Do NOT contact me ever again.​

Well, I don't actually want to put words in your mouth, but you wrote it so succinctly, that's all I would say. The fucking lying bastard. You don't deserve that treatment.
 
Thanks NYC.
I am not sure how to approach the actual break-up. Part of me wants to meet in person, one part just drop all communication and disappear, one part continue but emotionally disconnect. The professional side of me wants to sit down and discuss the need for lying, the me side of me wants to avoid the tough questions.
I am not terribly upset or broken hearted, but shocked and surprised more than anything.
I want to ask why he tells me all sorts of other things but couldn't tell me about dating? Even say he is dating but doesn't want to discuss it. I would be fine with that and more to the point he knows I would be fine with that, so why the need to deceive? It makes no sense, we are setting up a swing for the New Year, where does he get the idea that I am not ok with him dating?

I will have to tell Prof and go back to using condoms until I can get tested. That is the part I am least looking forward too. I have inadvertently put him and S at risk. An STD health issue is the last thing S needs. She was in hospital over the weekend.
I would like to say I am fairly sure he used condoms, he did with me in the beginning, some of the emails contained info about condoms and "blood work".

Ironic...Prof and I were discussing relationships on Weds and what being in a relationship means. Prof considers him and I to be in a relationship and questioned if I considered myself to be in a relationship with Kip. I said "of course", Kip has been there for me during some tough times recently and is a great support. Which is true, just need to add the fact that he is lying and cheating too.

I haven't had any contact with him since the messages about the phone, which completely died, so no more snooping for me.

Don't know how to handle it just yet. We are supposed to meet on Tuesday. I need more time.
 
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Oh, how horrible for you! I am so sorry.

I agree with NYC that pretending this didn't happen isn't an option. Even if you wanted to, it seems almost impossible to do, but I don't see any reason to anyway. And making unexplained changes seems like perpetuating the lack of communication, so also has no appeal to me.

I think your post expressed your feelings very well. You could even consider sending him a copy of it. Discussion could follow or not, depending upon how your feelings are progresssing - e.g., whether you hope he will explain or whether what he says might make any difference to you.

You could also tell him that you need more time, if you're not ready to deal with it on Tues.

When I thought I was going through a breakup last summer, I had a friend coach me on the discussion ahead of time; it was incredibly useful. I told her the questions I was thinking of asking, and she helped me to figure out what I actually wanted to know, and ways of asking questions that were likely to be answered honestly, instead of prompting answers that were simply aimed at sparing my feelings. The revised questions tended to sound more curious and caring; basically they were more about understanding my bf than about the aspects of the relationship that had hurt me. (My first questions tended to have an undercurrent of looking for reassurance that I hadn't recognized.) The process with my friend really shifted how I felt going into the conversation with my bf.

Of course, the situtations underlying the two breakups are very different, and you may not feel inclined to be caring right now or to have a discussion at all. But perhaps a practice discussion, or bouncing your questions off the board here, might be useful.

You sound like you're holding up pretty well, all things considered. Glad to hear that.
 
Thanks for the words of support Wildflowers.

Lots of good ideas about questions and how and what to ask.
I think I know most of the answers. He has discussed before that his wife thinks he is a porn addict, he told me watches mornings and nights. He says he has a higher than average libido, masturbates twice a day. I have no issue with this, webcam chats, IM or whatever he enjoys. My big question is why the need to lie in an open relationship? And I think I know the answer to that too, because it's exciting, he likes the attention and being sneaky is fun.

My usual reaction to unsuccessful relationships is to dump the idiot in question and not think twice about it again. I have only been dumped once, I have done all the breaking up.

However, as I have written before, I am taking a good hard look at myself and what are probably attachments issues. Meaning I don't attach easily or quickly.

Kip has partly been an experiment in trying to attach emotionally and while we have had brief "I love you's " I am not really upset by this at all. And I think I should be. Shocked at the lies but not heart sore.
I was a little upset back in August when I thought we were breaking up but even then I could have moved on very quickly.

I have thought about dumping Prof on many an occasion, did once and have put it out there a few times. Yo got dumped 3 times, Rugby guy didn't last long.

I was even messing with OKC again, rejigging my profile. While on the subject, guess who messaged me? My pics were down as I wanted to put up new ones. ROFLMAO.
Even as I think about the OKC part, I am surprised at myself. Shouldn't there be some period of mourning for an over year long relationship?

I am ready to move and have been for a while. My parenting agreement prohibits me from leaving the county with the kids but I have been looking at moving to the further limits.

I have moved every 5-6 years since I was a child, major moves, different countries usually. This is the longest I have ever lived in one place and it is only because I can't legally get out. I also need to wait till I finish the intern part of my program, so stuck here at least until the summer next year at the earliest.

It suits my minimal attachment style. Leaving is never sad for me, it is a new start.

I am burned out with relationships, friends, lovers, colleagues and yearn to go back to being new and anonymous. It is preferable to leave then deal with relationships.

So, I feel I must deal with Kip, not just disappear. I am trying to reverse this pattern of walking away from tough relationship situations without looking at the whys and my part in the failure.

I will call my counselor that I saw during the marriage break up. I am not sure if I am a bit old and stuck in my ways at this point, but I am open to learning.
I am also making an appointment with my ob/gyn, for testing. Will call in the morning.
 
Feeling like Chris Hansen form Dateline or whatever the program is.

Deleted my OKC profile, to avoid the message from Kip, and set up a new one last night.

When I went online this afternoon there was another message from Kip, very similar to the last and a lovely email from Prof!

Prof liked my responses on the open relationships questions and would I like to meet for a glass of wine, stroll and chat? It was a very good first email, obviously read my profile and had a think about it.

I am going insane, he told me 2 weeks ago he and S agreed he would shut down meeting new people, no new dates. While they could have have renegotiated this, it is highly unlikely as she was in hospital!

On a different note, how could they both not realize it is me? My new user name is very similar to the old, I haven't changed my physical descriptions or likes that much. It's not like I live in a huge city. Come on stoopids.

Prof gets a chance to explain that he is dating again, that he is not cheating on S or lying to me.

My brain is fried.

My only conclusion so far is, my picker is really broken.

Next question, both ( probably) of these men are cheating on 1)wife 2) very ill primary partner.

Do I keep out of it? I do not have any kind of relationship with either of the women.

I had a very brief IM chat with Kip this morning. He was asking about the swing in January. I couldn't stomach it.
 
Woah, you changed your profile and immediately both your cheating men hit on you? What the fuck with these lying cheating cheaters?

I am appalled. I thought Kip was bad enough, but now Prof, who says he isn't dating others, hit on YOU, when he didn't know it was you?

This is all so crazy, I can't even...
 
Hi Mags,
I couldn't make this up if I tried.
I know Prof is on OKC, he knows I pop my profile up and down. Kip knows I am on OKC and sometimes POF.

Their approaches are so different, Kip sent out 138 short messages in 2 months, Prof goes for the better crafted personalized message. It really does reflect their personalities.

I got to the point last night where I was laughing at the situation. 2 men in open relationships, still can't be honest about seeing other women.

I kind of get why they didn't tell me. I would not be happy with a high turnover of women, I think it is hard to get a true picture of STD safety and I would probably have extricated myself if I knew the extent of Kip's activities. He knows that, we had many a talk on the subject, as with Prof.

I have known about about and been complicit with Prof cheating. The woman he is planning to bring to the swing, L, was vetoed by S before they started being intimate. Prof was reading me texts from L, very sexual in nature and has told me they had sex before.
Prof and I have broken most of the rules on his list. he calls it having "fuzzy boundaries". I have to admit to my part in this.
If they'll do it with you, they'll do it too you." Dr. Phil, so sage.

So, I still don't want to talk to Kip, I might wait till he gets back from his trip. That's the betrayal that hurts the most.
 
Unless you're close to their other partners, I'd stay out of those. Knowing you're uncomfortable with the revolving door of sexual partners means there should be more honesty, not less, so you can protect yourself. You can take the stuff with Prof as a learning experience as you noted, but I suggest at the very least that you get yourself tested and cut off all fluid bonding with these 2 men you know to be dishonest. If you don't break up with them entirely. It might be a good topic to bring up in counseling for objectivity and help dealing with the fallout. I'm so sorry you're going through this. :-(
 
Thanks Southern Gal.

I am going to try and deal with this rather than simply disappear. "Nice to meet, you bye."

I am trying to work on the whole communication issue so here are 2 opportunities.

Prof is coming round tonight. I already said sex is off the menu.

Not sure whether to come out right with it, or ask a few probing questions. It could be that he is dating again as per agreement with S.
They have a difference between engagements and dating. He could have approached Me.2 looking to meet and chat about open relationship or poly, not necessarily as a dating partner.

I cancelled Kip for tomorrow, it was a hurried IM exchange, I still don't know how to approach this.

Is it really my business what they do when not with me? Do they owe me an explanation?

It is the lying that stings. They both know I am ok with all of us having other partners.

Admission...I replied to both of their OKC messages. Asking what they are looking for. Maybe they will be more honest with a perceived stranger.
 
Is it really my business what they do when not with me? Do they owe me an explanation?

It is the lying that stings. They both know I am ok with all of us having other partners

Yes it's your business. Your health is your business.

And the lying is the problem. If you can't trust them about that, you can't trust them about anything.
 
Had a good talk with Prof last night.
He said he is still on OKC, has a lot of email buddies and still emails people who describe as poly or open and want to meet and chat. But he is not looking to add another partner, there is the line.

S tried to veto me again over the weekend, a green hair elastic was in the trash. Prof laid down the law and said if she was going to go ballistic over people forgetting stuff then she would not be welcome in his home anymore. Line between deliberately moving in personal items and losing items. Maybe I should get my hair cut short! I have little hair elastics and clips all over the place.

We had lots of discussion about relationships, boundaries, what one partner is entitled to know.

I flat out asked him if he would tell me about one-night stands or hook-ups. He said he wouldn't and wouldn't expect me to tell him. Only if there was some kind of risk or didn't use protection. He said he is not into the hook up thing but if he decided to do it regularly then he would tell me.
I asked how he thought I'd react. He said he thought I would be fine with the occasional liaison but not if he was doing it regularly. And he is quite correct.

He did say that he felt I was not forthcoming about my dating and what was going on in my life. I ask more questions than I answer. Also correct.

On a sweet side note. I did say that ex should be moving this week and start taking the kids for overnights again. He said he would pay for the moving costs if brought back Wednesday sleep-overs sooner. He said he really missed it.

I am having a small Dr's office procedure done tomorrow, he is going to come round and make tea and treats.

I am glad I decided to talk to him about my concerns rather than knee-jerk dump him. Maybe this communication thing works!

Kip, no progress there. Some simple IM chat, I told him about the procedure and that I wouldn't be up for sex for the rest of the week. This gives me till January to decide how to approach him. I think meet and ask questions, same as with Prof and if he denies it, then I will fess up to reading his emails and finish with him. I will probably finish with him anyway. There is no doubt that he has been lying for ages. Even when I ask him directly about dating. He is too busy, blah blah blah. Only got time for wife and me.
Ugh.
 
However, as I have written before, I am taking a good hard look at myself and what are probably attachments issues. Meaning I don't attach easily or quickly.

Kip has partly been an experiment in trying to attach emotionally . . .

Huh. This is the opposite of my relationship goal, which is to love without attachment. I've written about this a few times here. Basically I believe that getting attached to someone is not a good place to be. Interesting that you're striving to feel attached.
 
Maybe attached isn't the right word. Open and trusting enough to share thoughts and feelings. Feeling connected enough to share.
I did some reading on attachment myself. I get what you are saying.
I feel that I can be too emotionally distant, not express caring enough through words.
Does that make sense?
Both of them have said getting things out of me is difficult. I am an INTJ personality through and through. I gather information and have a think about it. Then ask more questions.
 
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