The Initial Conversation

That's a good point actually. Saying to her that you just want to see if she is okay might be an idea. I'm a big fan of letting people know that I am asking for my own feelings to be soothed as much as to give them a chance to sooth thier's. I often say things like, "you don't have to go into a a bunch of stuff but could you give me some idea that you have been thinking about things and where you are getting with that?"
 
Like everyone else has said, give it time. My gut reaction is that her saying that she is going to move away and take your child with her is borne out of the fear of the unknown. It's wonderful that you have been honest with her. The 2 of you are doing all the right things by being honest and seeing someone who can help ask the questions for you to be able to move forward.

There is always the chance that non-monogamy will always be a deal breaker for your wife. In that case the focus will have to be on your son and how to best co-parent without being married anymore. It's way too early to say if that's the way it's going to go yet.

Is there a local poly group where your wife can meet some people who are poly and who's lives are going well? Maybe even meet the mono wife of a poly man? Sometimes seeing that it can be done and it can work for everyone involved can help. (It might be too soon for such a move though...although doing the research now for when she is ready might be a good idea).

Court your wife again. Take her out places that she likes to go and do things that the 2 of you haven't done together for years. Chances are she's feeling like you want to replace her for someone younger/hotter. She needs to feel that you cherish her. For a while that might really mean going above and beyond with the romance and dating.

Hope that helps a bit.

-Derby
 
I think it's great that you've been honest with her. As for her telling you she'd leave and take your child, if he's in his early teens he already has the legal right to make that decision of who he wants to live with and she's not allowed to make it for him.
Well, it depends where you live. I'd check on that, but where I'm from it starts at 13, which is the earliest teen there is.

Otherwise, her "if you are going to be poly I'm going to leave you" in itself isn't blackmail. It's honest, just like "If I'm not allowed to be poly with your consent, I'll probably cheat without it instead" isn't blackmail but honest.

If you can't live without poly and she can't live with it, breaking up makes perfect sense to me. Of course in your case there is a child to think about, who hasn't asked for any of this, and it's very sad that it's turning out to be that way.

Personally I think that being honest is the best you can do. You cannot control your feelings and you have controlled your actions, which is the most you can do. You have told her about the way she felt, and what did you expect her to do? She was given the option to either stay with who you are or leave who you are, and it seems divorce is what she wants between the two.

If she doesn't want affection anymore and she doesn't tell you she loves you and doesn't want to say it either, it seems to me she's made her decision. You can try and make things better, but with what you know (that you aren't fundamentally compatible) is that really the best option? Wouldn't it just drag on a relationship that wouldn't work anyways?

I don't know, it seems that people are often on the side of "make the relationship keep going!" even when it seems that it would hurt everyone involved. In this case, your wife, you and your son. I'm certainly not in that case. I think some things can be worked around and compromised around, and polyamory sometimes is one of them, but right now only you are willing to compromise and meet her halfway, and she's going "walk the other half, sucker!" so I fail to see how it could get anywhere at all.
 
Like everyone else has said, give it time. My gut reaction is that her saying that she is going to move away and take your child with her is borne out of the fear of the unknown.

Yes, I completely agree, and I believe that her mindset right now is so completely screaming fear that I just want to give her time to feel what she feels, and when the intensity of that feeling relaxes, then we can fill in the missing pieces so that they are no longer unknown.

It's wonderful that you have been honest with her. The 2 of you are doing all the right things by being honest and seeing someone who can help ask the questions for you to be able to move forward.

There is always the chance that non-monogamy will always be a deal breaker for your wife. In that case the focus will have to be on your son and how to best co-parent without being married anymore. It's way too early to say if that's the way it's going to go yet.

I agree with this, too. It is also too early for a decision to be made one way or the other, though that is exactly what she says she wants from me right now. She told me that she is withholding saying that she loves me, and does not want affection from me, because she is afraid of being hurt if I choose polyamory (I didn't go into the fact that, for me, I did not choose it--it chose me). She does not, at this time, find my willingness to put polyamory aside and focus on us acceptable, because she knows that means that at some point, it won't STAY put aside, and she'll have to deal with this again.

Is there a local poly group where your wife can meet some people who are poly and who's lives are going well?

This is Austin, Texas. I'm certain that there is. :)

Maybe even meet the mono wife of a poly man? Sometimes seeing that it can be done and it can work for everyone involved can help. (It might be too soon for such a move though...although doing the research now for when she is ready might be a good idea).

Yes, it's far too soon, I think, but this is an excellent idea, and talking to such a couple would be very good for me, too. There's a great yawning chasm between the way I see the world and the way she sees the world, and just understanding how bridging that gap is even possible--in a kind, patient, compassionate way--would do us a world of good.

Court your wife again. Take her out places that she likes to go and do things that the 2 of you haven't done together for years. Chances are she's feeling like you want to replace her for someone younger/hotter. She needs to feel that you cherish her. For a while that might really mean going above and beyond with the romance and dating.

Hope that helps a bit.

It does, but the unfortunate truth right now is that she does not want to be courted. She wants to protect herself from being hurt while she hopes that I choose to continue our monogamous relationship. Even as she says that, she says she's not sure she can ever completely trust me again; thus, I fear that unless we can bridge the divide somehow, my marriage is well and truly fucked, and it's all my fault.

I'm not giving up just yet, though (boy, would that be stupid!). We're going to change from me seeing the counselor to us seeing the counselor, and see where that goes.

I think it's great that you've been honest with her. As for her telling you she'd leave and take your child, if he's in his early teens he already has the legal right to make that decision of who he wants to live with and she's not allowed to make it for him.
Well, it depends where you live. I'd check on that, but where I'm from it starts at 13, which is the earliest teen there is.

Sure, but that is still a terrible position to put him in. I've been there myself, when I was a child. It shaped fundamentally what I thought I believed about marriage--I wanted to be as sure as I could possibly be that I was really and truly in love with The One, and that it was going to be for life, not thrown away just because it got difficult. And, of course, part of all of that was the monogamous social conditioning, to the point that I repressed my poly feelings for years, felt ashamed of them, and hated myself for them. That, at least, is done.

Otherwise, her "if you are going to be poly I'm going to leave you" in itself isn't blackmail. It's honest, just like "If I'm not allowed to be poly with your consent, I'll probably cheat without it instead" isn't blackmail but honest.

I get what you're saying, but making a statement like that would end it, I'm certain. Maybe it needs to end. I sure hope not.

She broached the possibility of living as roommates instead of as husband and wife, for the sake of both of us being here for our son. I think she'd hate that (such self-sacrifice breeds resentment, and there is not one damned noble thing about that--it's more social conditioning that we should all put into the bin just as fast as we possibly can), and even if we cannot agree on how to live together, I don't want her to be miserable. I do, honest and truly, still love her. It's a hard problem, given that we both love our son and want the best for him. I could even see stuffing poly, as hard as that would be, for the remaining years until he's grown, but if my wife will not trust me, the marriage would still be a sham. I can potentially live mono for a few more years, but I cannot live without love, affection, and companionship.

If you can't live without poly and she can't live with it, breaking up makes perfect sense to me. Of course in your case there is a child to think about, who hasn't asked for any of this, and it's very sad that it's turning out to be that way.

Personally I think that being honest is the best you can do. You cannot control your feelings and you have controlled your actions, which is the most you can do. You have told her about the way she felt, and what did you expect her to do? She was given the option to either stay with who you are or leave who you are, and it seems divorce is what she wants between the two.

I did not make an ultimatum. I had hoped that, once the initial shock wore off, that negotiation of boundaries and baby steps could begin. She's pushing for a conclusion rather more quickly, and I'm trying to beg her off until the emotions subside. I told her that I thought that making such big decisions while we were both emotional was foolish, and she did not disagree. Understandably, she doesn't want to feel like she has to protectively cocoon herself indefinitely, so to the counselor we go, to see if we can at least temporarily resolve the impasse.

If she doesn't want affection anymore and she doesn't tell you she loves you and doesn't want to say it either, it seems to me she's made her decision. You can try and make things better, but with what you know (that you aren't fundamentally compatible) is that really the best option? Wouldn't it just drag on a relationship that wouldn't work anyways?

What you say may certainly be true. I do not think, though--especially given that we have a child together--that four days is long enough to just throw in the towel on a relationship that spans nearly two decades. I don't think you think so, either, but I do hear what you are saying, and I agree with you.

I don't know, it seems that people are often on the side of "make the relationship keep going!" even when it seems that it would hurt everyone involved. In this case, your wife, you and your son. I'm certainly not in that case. I think some things can be worked around and compromised around, and polyamory sometimes is one of them, but right now only you are willing to compromise and meet her halfway, and she's going "walk the other half, sucker!" so I fail to see how it could get anywhere at all.

It's only been four days. I'm the one who dropped this bomb on her, so it's up to me to step up and be patient and generous. I'll not wait forever, but it seems shallow and self-absorbed to just give up without first trying REALLY HARD to make it work, and part of that means waiting for the shock to wear off. I don't think we can get anywhere until that happens.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.
 
Trust

Even as she says that, she says she's not sure she can ever completely trust me again

MT, Beloved and I broke up for almost two years. When we broke up, even though it was a mutual decision, my world collapsed. I could not figure out what or why it had happened, even though there was an obvious reason - she wanted children and I did not. I thought we were happy, and then we weren't? What else was going on that I missed?

Nothing made sense to me. I didn't trust her because I did not trust myself anymore. Our breakup destroyed my sense of self, who I was, what I understood to be my 'place' in the world, how I understood everything around me, how I understood my self to be. It is one of the most painful, most disorienting experiences of my life.

Your wife probably has had a very similar experience. I bet nothing makes sense to her. You don't make sense to her. She thought she knew you intimately. She thought she knew what marriage was, what your marriage was specifically. Now she doesn't.

She may be saying she does not trust you in part because nothing in her world makes sense anymore. I know I did not trust Beloved because my foundation was gone. Your wife may be in a similar place.

Beloved and I did get back together - it was really hard. I had to rebuild my sense of self and sense of what the world is and how I live in it. But we did it and while we still are challenged by all kinds of things (distance, managing poly, money), we are happy together.
 
Austin texas! There is a large community there. There are quite a few on the fb group I admin. Feel free to pm me and let me know if you want to join it so as to meet people. You'd have to friend me first though :)
 
(...broke up over fundamental disagreement over having children...)

Nothing made sense to me. I didn't trust her because I did not trust myself anymore. Our breakup destroyed my sense of self, who I was, what I understood to be my 'place' in the world, how I understood everything around me, how I understood my self to be. It is one of the most painful, most disorienting experiences of my life.

Your wife probably has had a very similar experience. I bet nothing makes sense to her. You don't make sense to her. She thought she knew you intimately. She thought she knew what marriage was, what your marriage was specifically. Now she doesn't.

She may be saying she does not trust you in part because nothing in her world makes sense anymore. I know I did not trust Beloved because my foundation was gone. Your wife may be in a similar place.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

Austin texas! There is a large community there. There are quite a few on the fb group I admin. Feel free to pm me and let me know if you want to join it so as to meet people. You'd have to friend me first though :)

I'd love to, but I'm not quite ready to be "out" just yet. I'd like the shelter of anonymity while my wife comes to terms with all of this.

On that note, a promising development that set me aglow: this morning, as I was getting out of the shower, she came to me in tears, saying that she really wants us to work, and that she loves me, and we held hands and kissed. She's still very afraid of getting hurt, and it's on me to help her with that.

I'm very excited at the possibility that so long as I'm not a callous screwup, I'm not going to lose my wife!
 
I'd love to, but I'm not quite ready to be "out" just yet. I'd like the shelter of anonymity while my wife comes to terms with all of this.

Ahh, but it is one of the "secret" groups (don't know the exact name). It's private and no one else can view it, unless they are in the group. It doesn't show up on your info page or anything else. Now if your wife signs on to your fb that's another story. Even when you post a comment, it doesn't show up on your wall. I'm sure half the people on it wouldn't be there if it did.
 
I wasn't trying to say "give up and break up", just trying to offer a differing viewpoint.
I think your wife has been honest about the way she feels and what she's comfortable with or not at this point, and in my opinion it's better than if she pretended she was fine with in when she actually wasn't.

I think I differ from a lot of people by thinking that sometimes, staying together is bad for a relationship, and people are likely to stay n relationship past their expiration date and make things worse.

This being said, it's true that four days isn't much at all. I hope you guys get better, but I'm not sure what to suggest as I don't know your wife. I'm not sure what would get her to trust you, I expect your opening to her was a shocking experience for her and it's going to be harder for her to trust you than before, even though you've proven more trustworthy than you used to be (since you were honest instead of hiding it some more).
Maybe in time she'll understand that since you were honest with her, there is no reason for her to think you're going to go behind her back. That would be more likely of someone who did not admit they can develop feelings for others.

I understand that you don't want your son to go through that, of course. I was just saying that it's likely to be an empty threat from your wife and that I wouldn't take it at face value, but more try and understand what prompted her to say that. Maybe she felt you took something important from her and she wanted to get you back by doing the same and taking your son away (or threaten to do so) for instance.

I'm not sure how the roommate idea might work. I've known people for whom it worked, but they didn't love each other anymore and were friends more than anything.
By the way, her daughter reacted terribly when she learned they had stayed together for her sake.
I think it might be easier to be honest with your kid right away than have them learn in retrospect that because of him, you had to keep living together for years. Then again, I guess it depends on your kid, but I'm usually on the side of honesty. Things get figured out at some point and it's that much worse when you realise you've been lied to for years.
 
On that note, a promising development that set me aglow: this morning, as I was getting out of the shower, she came to me in tears, saying that she really wants us to work, and that she loves me, and we held hands and kissed. She's still very afraid of getting hurt, and it's on me to help her with that.

I'm very excited at the possibility that so long as I'm not a callous screwup, I'm not going to lose my wife!

Awww, thank you for sharing that beautiful moment with us. It is promising. When people love each other, they can find strength to face so much more than they ever thought possible. I have no doubts that you did your best to set her mind at ease this morning.

And I think it's obvious to all here that you are not a "callous screw-up."
 
Awww, thank you for sharing that beautiful moment with us. It is promising. When people love each other, they can find strength to face so much more than they ever thought possible. I have no doubts that you did your best to set her mind at ease this morning.

And I think it's obvious to all here that you are not a "callous screw-up."

*blush*

Yesterday morning, I told her that she was so worth keeping, and that I knew she was still scared, so I would be very careful with her feelings.

Last night and this morning, we shared some wonderful time together that has me skipping through the halls at work. It's like I have NRE with my wife!
 
That's because she's sharing these moments with the REAL you! :)

Well, now I'm not so sure. We had some amazing time together today and tonight. I can't remember when I'd felt such undiluted love and desire for her. Not carrying guilt over concealing my feelings will do that, I guess.

Now, that said, she said some things today that have left me confused. She made some remark about "in this new arrangement" earlier, but I was so fogged with physical desire for her that I don't remember what was said, but those words at least were encouraging. Later, after we had been intimate (and holy $#!k it was better than I ever remembered), she made a remark about me not looking anywhere else for what we'd just had, so I'm wracking my brain trying to think if I've said anything over the past week, while trying to reassure her, that has ended up misleading her. What we felt today was so intense, and so beautiful, and I don't want to spoil it by starting another round of "protective deception," as it were, but I also don't want to be pushy about poly--I am well and truly willing to wait in order to work on us as a couple first, but having still imagined being in love with my crush (to whom I have never disclosed my feelings nor have I begun anything in any way) today even while still being in the throes of very intense love for my wife, and having still felt giddy about what I imagined, I don't believe that what I've interpreted as my poly feelings are in any way just substitutions for the closeness that my wife and I used to have. That closeness was back today, stronger than I've ever felt it, yet my other feelings were still there.

We're seeing the therapist together in a couple of days. Out of deference to not being pushy about poly, I wonder if I should wait until then, or if I should risk pushing her back to her scared place by (gently) making sure that none of us are living under miscommunication and the resultant misconceptions. I can see arguments either way. I'd really hate to have her feel relief and intense love based upon a misconception, only to have that dashed hard in a few days, but I also would really hate to push on the topic while she's just barely over the initial shock (or is that really just me being a chickenshit like I was for so many years in the first place?).
 
Perhaps a gentle reminder that the issue is not resolved for you, while stressing that you have enjoyed the time you've had, but you want to wait until therapy discuss it so that the discussion can be as constructive as possible?

I'll get Indigo on here, because he can offer better perspective on what words might be best received by your wife.
 
Perhaps a gentle reminder that the issue is not resolved for you, while stressing that you have enjoyed the time you've had, but you want to wait until therapy discuss it so that the discussion can be as constructive as possible?

I'll get Indigo on here, because he can offer better perspective on what words might be best received by your wife.

Given your particular situation, perhaps Mr. A's perspective would also be valuable, if he has the inclination.

Thanks!
 
Given your particular situation, perhaps Mr. A's perspective would also be valuable, if he has the inclination.

Thanks!

He came into the relationship when it was already me and Indigo. Most of the issues he worked through revolved around feeling like the other man, not the anxieties of opening a previously mono relationship.

He's not on here. Prefers to just live our life, not dissect it. Sometimes I wonder if he's the most well-adjusted one among us! :p

Indigo just finished reading; you should get a reply soon.
 
I saw the "IM" signal and came as soon as I could, what seems to be the problem commissioner?

Well first and foremost I think you are confused by your wife's actions and words because she is confused by them too. Speaking from experience she needs reassurance (as it has been mentioned) because I imagine she is feeling less than adequate to put it mildly. No matter how you have explained it or rationalized your mindset to her inevitably she is feeling unwanted and feels like now she is in direct competition for a prize (you) she thought she had already won. Best thing you can do is reassure her that you love her and that while this change is something you need, the "new you" is still in love with her.

Any insecurities she had about herself, your relationship, or her life in general just had a magnifying glass put on them by telling her; by no means should you have not told her, but be prepared for peaks and valleys of being ok or not ok with poly. I think her actions with the time spent together (your self described NRE with your wife) are her attempt to show you she can be what she thinks you want her to be, she may be trying to show you she can be what you are looking for. I say this because at first I saw poly as just a way for TP to sleep with other people (it wasn't but that's how my emotional side viewed it) and I imagine your wife might have the same feelings and is trig to compensate for shortcomings she thinks you believe she has. Reassurance is key, and honesty about what you really want (physical vs. Emotional for poly.)

I should point out that when TP and I first started dating she made it clear that she wanted nonmongamy but was willing to work up the trust before opening the relationship; your wife didn't have that benefit. Hard question time: do you want to stay married and be nonmonagmous? Or are you convincing yourself you still want to be married for your son and because it's the status quo? So it comes down to you really wanting nonmongamy or saying you want it to rationalize feelings for other people and a wandering eye? (neither are bad but there's a distinction to be made between those and Poly.)

I had to ask similar questions of TP when it came time to open the relationship: did she still want to be with me or just be back single and dating again?

Ultimately your honest is your biggest credit right now but dont take her mixed messages at face value; as was said she needs to know you value her feelings in this.
 
Any insecurities she had about herself, your relationship, or her life in general just had a magnifying glass put on them by telling her; by no means should you have not told her, but be prepared for peaks and valleys of being ok or not ok with poly. I think her actions with the time spent together (your self described NRE with your wife) are her attempt to show you she can be what she thinks you want her to be, she may be trying to show you she can be what you are looking for. I say this because at first I saw poly as just a way for TP to sleep with other people (it wasn't but that's how my emotional side viewed it) and I imagine your wife might have the same feelings and is trig to compensate for shortcomings she thinks you believe she has. Reassurance is key, and honesty about what you really want (physical vs. Emotional for poly.)

This, especially. She may very well be trying to show you that you don't need anyone else. If this is the case, it will be very important to clarify that the enthusiasm you had for having your wife back should not be confused with admitting you were wrong and you don't want anyone but her.
 
I am glad TP and Indigo responded; I wanted to, but since I've yet to be in a situation like yours, thought it best to wait for others' input.

I agree that your wife likely feels threatened by your revelation and is focusing on the sexual aspect that she probably sees as the reason why you want to explore polyamory. If I were her, I'd be doing the same thing, trying to make you "see what you'd be missing" if you went elsewhere, and give you reasons to want me more and forget about this "silly" idea you have. It is very easy to feel totally insecure about being desired. Plus, most woman know that a man can become pretty drunk on sex, which puts them in better shape to be convinced of something (that's just intuitive, not necessarily manipulative).

She is probably absolutely terrified of your choosing someone else over her, or of leaving her. Terror is extreme fear, but the quality of being unseen or unknown sets it apart from horror, which is what we feel when confronted head-on and we see what it is we're horrified by. In reality, we never really know what the future holds, but when someone has counted on something to go a certain way and has expectations that life will continue on in a pretty predictable route, the unknown can really throw us off-balance completely and terrify us to the core.

Plus, I think that your "confession" has thrown her for a loop; it doesn't make sense to her. She is grasping at the most obvious "reason" she can find for what she sees as a complete 360° about-face on your part, of course not understanding how you've struggled for so long. And that it must have something to do with her desirability or your sex life, would be the most obvious to a woman, I think. She might even be surprised that you still want to go with her to a therapist, if she believes she's done a "good job" of convincing you that she is all you need.

The trick is to let her know that the increased ardor and closeness you two have been experiencing in the last few days is something you appreciate, are thrilled with, and want to continue, but that it isn't what has prompted you to broach the topic with her.

But no one here has really answered your question yet, I don't think, of whether you should continue in this blissful state for a few days and wait until therapy to remind her of the changes you want to see happen, or do you bring it up now so she doesn't get her hopes up too high that all you needed was a reminder of how good it is with her. I don't see how it could hurt to gently and lovingly tell her at the next opportune moment, if it feels right, "You know I love you, and we still have a lot to talk about."
 
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