Polyamorous just in words or actions too

LovingRadiance

Active member
I'm struggling.

Maca and GG talked and agreed that we could all go out to some holiday get togethers . They agreed that it was ok to acknowledge verbally that Maca is my husband, that GG is my boyfriend.

BUT-

Maca can't handle any sign of physical affection (hand holding, kissing, hugging, running fingers through hair, head on shoulder, kiss on cheek or top of head, etc) between GG and I....

SO it's ok to SAY he's my boyfriend publicly, but I'm supposed to act like he's not even my best friend....????

Yeah-that doesn't work for me.
I don't even know how to explain where I'm at. I just flat don't find it ok. I'd rather just not go anywhere with both of them together.

In point of fact, that's exactly where I'm at right now, I don't even want to be at home with BOTH of them right now. Becuase I find the whole of it so fucking taxing.

Thoughts?
 
*more big hugs*

I can certainly understand your frustration with the situation. Loving them both means demonstrating love to both of them, right? Perfectly natural.

But, given everything that's going on with Maca right now, and all the unresolved issues he's trying to work through, I can also understand how observing you being affectionate with GG would hurt Maca.

The situation stinks, no doubt about it, and my heart just breaks for all of you. I'm so sorry for y'all's pain. :(

So what to do? I don't know, except to try and put myself in your shoes. If it were me, there's no way I'd be willing to restrict my affectionate nature forever. I'm very demonstrative and I know I couldn't pigeonhole that part of me indefinitely. I just couldn't do it. But I would be willing to refrain from physical displays of affection for the short term if it meant helping Fidelio work through his issues, strictly as a show of support for him. I would need to clearly define the parameters and I would need a definite ending to the restrictions, but I would be willing to try it for Fidelio. And I wouldn't want the first time to try out the new boundary to be a big-deal holiday event with lots of friends and family present. I'd prefer to test the waters when there was no pressure, a simple dinner date or some such. So that if it didn't work, we end the date and no harm done. At least, I THINK that's what I'd try to do.

Whatever y'all decide and however it works out, here are some good vibes and hugs going out to all y'all.
 
Fidelia,

Part of my issue is that I AM ok with taking a "time out" to work on things.
However, this is something that hasn't changed in 14 months.

Maca says he wants to be here, with the family. But he doesn't take time to consider what that MEANS.
He says he accepts that GG is my boyfriend-LIVE IN BOYFRIEND at that, but he doesn't take time to consider what that means.

Maca would be FURIOUS if I were to go to his Christmas party-and not be affectionate with GG, then go to GG's party and not be affectionate with Maca, but wouldn't that be more "reasonable" if we're only going to show affection to ONE person-then it should be the one whose peers we are with?
(I find the whole thing absurd).

FURTHER MORE-
Maca is TOTALLY ok with kissing and making out with other women in front of other people when I'm around, in point of fact even when one of our son's parents happened by, he continued to do so as I spoke with that parent (who hasn't a CLUE about poly or our lifestyle). He specifically said he didn't give a DAMN what they thought.

He recognizes that he has a double standard there and he acknowledges that it's not fair or reasonable.

GG and I aren't the "make out in public" type of couple anyway-we wouldn't do that. It's not something we're comfortable with.
So the level of affection that we're talking about is very minimal. We rarely french kiss if there is an "audience".

But, Maca expects that we are not to do ANYTHING that suggests the type of relationship we have-in front of him.
AND
He expects that any time he's available-I'm with him...........

So for example this week, I didn't get any time with GG. All week. A "group xmas spree" that Maca planned for ALL FOUR of us-turns into GG walking alone behind us the entire day. No playful banter, no talking, no acknowledgement that he's even WITH US, all day? Damn near 12 hours.

We live together, but we can't kiss goodbye before he leaves to spend the night elsewhere?


It really pisses me off. Seriously pisses me off.

The more months that go by-the more pissed off I get.

Maca has a date planned with his "other" coming up. Imagine that-I don't work, so it's AUTOMATICALLY a time he could be spending with me. He wouldn't dream that it might be an issue. In point of fact, while he did tell me that they MADE plans (not that they wanted to-they HAD ALREADY) he did NOT tell me anything about when, except what day.
The truth is that I don't mind-but I DO mind that he expects me to be ok with that, when he is NOT ok with me making plans with GG.

I made plans with GG to go out WHILE MACA IS AT WORK on the 3rd. We're going Christmas shopping. I got attitude from Maca. He'll be AT WORK. It's not time we can spend together ANYWAY. But he's still jealous and pissy because I'll be with GG.

It just never ends and it's fucking ridiculous.

My sister keeps saying-make a choice, then stick to it.
I agree with her.
He says he can't deal with the dynamic, then he says he's all in and he's going to work on it, then he can't deal with it, then he's all in, then he can't deal with it... etc.


The truth is that what he wants is to choose a path that will be easy, comfortable and enjoyable the whole way.
BUT
that doesn't exist. We live on earth. Every choice we make requires work at some point. We have to do the work to get the pleasure. He's not willing to do the work.

He wants to have his cake and eat it to. It's that simple to me.
It's ironic-he says that about me because I want both him and GG.

But I'm willing to do the work, make the allowances, take the time, put in the extra effort.

He wants me. He wants me to be his everything. He wants me to do it all his way. He wants me to fit into the vision he created of marriage when he was a child
AND
he wants me to make it happen so that he can just glide along enjoying it.

Well-
WTF?
It's not MY dream.
It's not MY plan.
It's not to MY benefit.
So why precisely would I want to do that?

AND I already HAVE busted my ass to make things as easy for him as possible and found that it only results in more demands, more strictures, more insecurities in him and a mental breakdown in me.
He knows that-he says he doesn't want to go down that road again etc etc etc etc.

OK-SO YOU HAVE A CHOICE-
A
OR
B

It's not-a matter of being able to have A, in the world of B or have B in the world of A. Those aren't options.

If he can't handle me, the REAL ME, then he needs to just say so and we can move on to whatever it is he can handle. Friends? Aquaintances? Fuck buddies? FWB? what the hell ever.

But continuing to tell me, he does love me, does wnat to be with me and does want to make THIS family work, not A FAMILY, but THIS family work while simultaneously insisting that he can't deal with GG is BULLSHIT.

(Fidelia-I wasn't at all upset with you, I hope you know that my frustration in this post isn't about YOU at all. XO)
It's a copout.
 
I'm trying to give you a laugh LR, so please take it that way when I *give you the use of my CLUE-BY-FOUR* which is used to hit the clueless, or those who aren't seeing reality, upside the head so they CAN see the clues or reality!

Many hugs & positive thoughts headed to the very frozen north!
 
If this has been going on for so long and he just can't handle it, I think maybe he's just not worth the hassle. Seems like he won't really change his mind and always have his double standards. Personally, I'd leave him on his arse and let him live his own way, but I wouldn't want a thing to do with it. Seems like it would be not just you, but also GG getting the hard end of this. I say you and GG go away and live it the way you're wanting to.
 
Fidelia,

Part of my issue is that I AM ok with taking a "time out" to work on things.
However, this is something that hasn't changed in 14 months.
Did you say FOURTEEN MONTHS? Geesh! I was thinking I could refrain myself from PDA's for maybe a week, two max. Then revisit the issue. Fourteen months? With little or no forward motion? Good heavens! No wonder you're at the end of your rope!

(Fidelia-I wasn't at all upset with you, I hope you know that my frustration in this post isn't about YOU at all. XO)
Of course not, Beloved. And I hope you know I'm just trying to help. O's and X's right back at you.
 
Did you say FOURTEEN MONTHS? Geesh! I was thinking I could refrain myself from PDA's for maybe a week, two max. Then revisit the issue. Fourteen months? With little or no forward motion? Good heavens! No wonder you're at the end of your rope!

Of course not, Beloved. And I hope you know I'm just trying to help. O's and X's right back at you.
I do know-that's why I wrote-I knew everyone would be caringly HONEST. ;)
Sometimes it helps to just hear things from someone else so you know it's not just in your own head. ;)

If this has been going on for so long and he just can't handle it, I think maybe he's just not worth the hassle. Seems like he won't really change his mind and always have his double standards. Personally, I'd leave him on his arse and let him live his own way, but I wouldn't want a thing to do with it. Seems like it would be not just you, but also GG getting the hard end of this. I say you and GG go away and live it the way you're wanting to.
It's not quite as easy as that, we have 5 kids and the youngest is 3. BUT-I do understand your point, quite well.
I told him tonight-life is simply a series of choices-make a choice and live it-stop spinning in circles whining about what the choice is, it's wasting your time (and mine).
AND-
yes, GG and the kids and Mimi all do get the hardest end of this.

I'm trying to give you a laugh LR, so please take it that way when I *give you the use of my CLUE-BY-FOUR* which is used to hit the clueless, or those who aren't seeing reality, upside the head so they CAN see the clues or reality!

Many hugs & positive thoughts headed to the very frozen north!

Thank you Breathes-I did take it that way. ;)
 
I think maybe he's just not worth the hassle. Seems like he won't really change his mind and always have his double standards. .


I care about everyone in this journey and I know you haven't met him. Please don't pretend to know what his worth is.
Regardless of what anyone thinks this is and has been tough on all of them.

Walk a little in his shoes.
 
I don't think its such a bad thing to bend a little. It's the start of a negotiation process and you seemingly have thrown out what he has offered without giving it a thought and some respect. It's like someone giving you the gift of their most vulnerable heart in the form of something they have made(regardless of the packaging) and you not even opening it and throwing it out the window in hast and anger.

Sorry LR, not fair I don't think.

He needed reassurance that he is still your man, and you have just confirmed that he is full of shit and can fuck right off with being your man. Is that what you meant to say to his hurting heart? He is trying to heal no?

This is where we at the hinges of vees don't get to ever have our cake and eat it too. We are always doing what we can to make sure that our loves are feeling appreciated and cared for, sometimes at the expense of what we really want in the moment...

If this were me I think I would suck it up, agree to do this with the understanding that if you are not to touch who you want to then neither is he, and go out and have the best time ever. Knowing that boundary negotiations are not over yet.

A good party or two could really help ease the tension and normalize things for all of you, move you past the crap that is going on... is that not the bigger gain? The greater good? There is lots of time to touch GG in private, who cares if you can't in public.

In my life I am very careful to not touch either men too much. If I do I make sure it is even and does not send off an message to them or those watching that I favor one over the other. Most of the time it's just easier to be private in our touching. The reassurance I give is so important, even if I really would not normally bother under any other circumstance and don't really see any value in it for myself directly... the direct benefit is that they are comfortable and happy and love me more because of it... :) all good stuff back again... then stuff like that usually eases in time.
 
I LOVE PDA's! lol Unfortunately neither of my guys are particularly into it :(. They're fine showing affection in front of a known quantity but not in front of those they don't really know.

One of the most memorable times with both of them together is when I was kissing Possibility good-bye & Breathes reached over & pinched my butt :D, his wife & their hubby were right there, too, lol.

I'm gathering from your words, LR, that Maca isn't OK even with private displays? If he doesn't see it then it isn't 'real' so he can just keep going as though everything's hunky dory, he's the ONLY man in your life apart from the kids.

I'm curious, are your definitions of public and private the same? For me public is anything where it isn't just the two of us, for them (I haven't confirmed this and am not about to at this ridiculous hour) I think it's more along the lines of outside the house & (for Possibility) as long as my kids aren't present. Private, for me, is anything inside the house no matter who's around although it can also include just the two of us.

Much hugs. I hope he settles this for himself soon so you can go back to living your life happily.

As an aside: I'm enjoying reading your blog and seeing the process you're going through trying to get through this.
 
If this were me I think I would suck it up, agree to do this with the understanding that if you are not to touch who you want to then neither is he, and go out and have the best time ever. Knowing that boundary negotiations are not over yet.

This was kind of what I was thinking, actually my thoughts actually were much more confrontational and retaliatory, but this is healthier:p. I know it doesn't bother you, but his double standard does. He needs to be bound by his rules as well.

I think you guys need to come up with new boundaries. No one should ever be completely ignored. Maybe before a group outing/event you and Maca could sit down together, get a feel for his mood and reassure him that your interaction with GG doesn't mean you love him less, but you won't be ignoring him either.

When we have something out of the ordinary going on, an all day event, road trip, etc, I have to do this for my oldest kid. I have to spell out the plan for the day and warn him that plans may change at a moments notice. If we promise to stop somewhere, but something prevents that (traffic, etc), it doesn't mean we lied, it means that circumstances have changed and we need to adapt. Before I started giving him this warning, he would focus on the fact that we didn't do something on the plan and he couldn't get past it. I found that when doing this for the kid, I was also able to do it for myself as well and I delt with SNAFUS much better.
 
I never show GG pda with Maca around, I have no issue with that-if the tables were even.
But they are not.

I didn't say I wouldn't go to the parties-I said I won't go to the parties with both of them together.

I don't mind going to GG's party with GG and going to Maca's with Maca. I have issue with going with BOTH of them and Maca expecting me to flat ignore GG.

RP-I know what you are saying-and yes-I did vent on here about how I feel.
However, I haven't done that to him and he's not reading the board at this point.

My issue isn't the idea of not showing any sexual affection to one of them in front of the other.
My issue is the expectation that I rub that sexual affection between Maca and I into GG's face AND that I allow Maca to show sexual affection to other women in front of me, but never ever allow myself to show ANY KIND OF AFFECTION-sexual or otherwise to GG in front of Maca.

That's a clear cut double standard-even Maca says so.

If HE see's that he has a double standard AND
He says that he would never tolerate it if he were me AND
He says it's wrong and not what he wants.... .

Why should I do it?

:rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong-I don't think "worth" is really the question here. I understand what (don't recall the name) the other poster was saying (as I said). But worth isn't really the issue at hand.

Maca has worth-a great deal of worth to me.
And he knows it.

He told him himself that he's selfish and that he takes me for granted. He admittedly quite readily that he expects me to arrange my life so that I am available any time he wants me to be, but does not expect to have to rearrange his own life for my benefit at all.

He wants to be able to say snap his fingers and POOF, there I am. I should just be waiting on the shelf like Buzz Lightyear for whenever he finally decides he wants to play with me. It's not ok for me to make plans of my own.

He admits that he doesn't hate GG, he WANTS to hate GG because he's afraid people will laugh at him and think he's a fool because he "allows me" to have another man.
BUT-he's more than willing to flaunt that I allow him another woman all over town. He's more than willing to make off-hand comments to random people at the store about it, turn to kiss me, then turn and kiss her and/or grab both of our asses to really RUB IT IN that he's got both of us.

I would never do those things-ever. It's not my nature.
But I can't even kiss GG goodbye without getting an attitude, and I'm talking a light closed mouth kiss, not a deep, passionate make-out kiss.

Even so much as idly running my hand over GG's shoulder results in attitude.

But Maca can make out in public?


To be blunt, I'm just sick of the drama that results when he flip-flops back and forth. I really don't care any more WHAT his decision is. I just need him to MAKE a decision.

I can't continue with him moving in and out, HIM setting up "dates" for GG and I, then having meltdowns over them; HIM promoting things like group outings, then having meltdowns over them; HIM promoting cuddle parties, then having meltdowns over them etc.

I would MUCH RATHER JUST KEEP IT ALL SEPARATED than deal with the meltdowns that follow EVERY SINGLE THING HE GIVES ME.
 
BUT-he's more than willing to flaunt that I allow him another woman all over town. He's more than willing to make off-hand comments to random people at the store about it, turn to kiss me, then turn and kiss her and/or grab both of our asses to really RUB IT IN that he's got both of us.

It's almost as if he wants you to get mad and react as he would in such a situation. The thing is he can't fully understand your nature, because he is much different. His actions must be judged based on his nature not yours. I get the impression that he is trying to be cruel and this is a form of retaliation.


To be blunt, I'm just sick of the drama that results when he flip-flops back and forth. I really don't care any more WHAT his decision is. I just need him to MAKE a decision.

Is it possible that he has made his decission, but doesn't want to be percieved as the bad guy by walking away from his family? It is sounds like he is doing everything he can think of to make you mad enough that YOU call an end to it. I have seen my brother do this, sometimes not even countiously, but he will be unreasonable, difficult, moody, and just downright unpleasant until his g/f breaks up with him.
 
It's almost as if he wants you to get mad and react as he would in such a situation. The thing is he can't fully understand your nature, because he is much different. His actions must be judged based on his nature not yours. I get the impression that he is trying to be cruel and this is a form of retaliation.
It's interesting that you said this-because he used to tell me all of the time that if I REALLY loved him, I'd get jealous and angry if he was paying attention to someone else. I hadn't thought about that in awhile, but we fought viciously in the early years over me not getting jealous and possessive. He would get spitting mad because he thought it meant that I didn't give a shit about him.

Is it possible that he has made his decission, but doesn't want to be percieved as the bad guy by walking away from his family? It is sounds like he is doing everything he can think of to make you mad enough that YOU call an end to it. I have seen my brother do this, sometimes not even countiously, but he will be unreasonable, difficult, moody, and just downright unpleasant until his g/f breaks up with him.
It is possible, but I don't know how to know for sure.

Either way-it seems to me that as I know what I want/believe/need, then I should stay my course regardless.
IF he wants to change his course-then he should change it.....

:rolleyes:
 
well LR, I think if this were me I would quite calmly say, either everyone shows affection at moments that feel comfortable or they don't... end of story. No double standard, no misunderstandings and no power trips...
 
I'm hearing that answer RP. I'm seriously considering that one. Because I'm at a total loss at this point.
 
I think you guys need to come up with new boundaries. No one should ever be completely ignored. Maybe before a group outing/event you and Maca could sit down together, get a feel for his mood and reassure him that your interaction with GG doesn't mean you love him less, but you won't be ignoring him either.

I agree (boundaries).
I agree (ignored).

I have tried the reassuring thing-but it doesn't matter WHAT I do. There's no accountability on his part to manage his emotions. He just reacts as they hit him as though it weren't possible to control one's own emotions.

It's very daunting. It's the EXACT same way my stepson behaves-a behavior Maca is putting the kid into counseling (again) for....
:rolleyes:
 
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