The Double Standard: Is it REALLY a double standard?

S

Sociopath

Guest
I'm curious how people on this forum will answer the question of whether or not the double standard is in fact a double standard. I already heard plenty answers from mainstream people, and the opinions vary.

In particular, women who've been cheated on and are currently unhappy with themselves are quickest to not want to hear about it. And men who've been cheated on, but who find it difficult to attract the opposite sex also don't like to hear about it much (i.e. I'm wondering if those men are, secretly, envious of the "bad boy" asshole who goes through women faster than through condoms).

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Women, too, want to sow their wild oats. Have your cake and eat it too! "What, you get to run around and have fun while I'm supposed to play the faithful housewife?"

Through a series of events over the past several years, I've been brought to ponder over human sexuality. Political correctness, though maybe soft and polite, has proven to be a load of horseshit when trying to accurately explain some of the mating behaviors of humans.

One recurring theme is the topic of non-monogamy. Much has convinced me that we're predisposed to it, irrespective of what every Happily Ever After indoctrinates us into believing. I am convinced, now, that non-monogamy is the norm. It is not a recessive tendency left over like the appendix, as some dishonest and sexually frustrated hypocrites would have you think.

Sex? Sex is good. Love? Few people have ever come up with a definition for that word without getting me to roll my eyes. But love sounds very nice, too. That's when I came across polyamory.

"Polyamory" started out as a beautiful word to me. It's as if I've come across somebody else like me. I remember several years back hearing on some radio talk show the question of whether or not people can be in multiple relationships, and I imagined myself in a situation involving more than one woman. It's like some sort of prehistoric well was tapped into. It felt normal. It felt natural. It felt serene. It made sense. It wasn't about collecting women with which to build a reliable booty call machine, either.

I didn't ponder over it too much. I still maintained in my head that, ultimately, even though there is no "one" soul mate out there, there's still the mechanism that has you forsake all others upon securing a mate. Imagine my surprise when I realized, "Holy crap. The world is full of vaginas! Immediately after becoming emotionally involved with my significant other, I started noticing my appetite for women. Like, left-and-right. Women that I wouldn't have even glanced at before, now all of a sudden became fuckable.

I shrugged at it at the time, kinda with the, "Hmm... that's interesting. Odd, but interesting" dismissal. The thing that made me most confused was having to fit two things, mutually exclusive according to the vanilla culture I grew up in, of being madly in love with this one chick, yet it was like open season with so many others.

Later on down the road, I thought I was alone and messed up in the head, or broken. Of course, like all things that interest me, I dug more and more.

Along the way, a few red flags came up. Too many people with issues and baggage. Off the top of my head, I'm reminded of this dude who learned to be afraid of ALL WOMEN because his ex-wife chopped his arm off or something. I mean, LMFAO, like holy shit that's crazy... but still, c'mon, ALL WOMEN? :lol3: So many triads formed with a younger, financially unstable, emotionally confused women. So many people speaking of health problems, particularly psychological.

I was very disappointed after I realized I gave them, as a collective whole, too much credit for being intelligent and well-versed in all matters related to love and sex. I saw that, like with anything else corrupted by too many people hopping aboard, there were a few impressive people and a majority of unimpressive people. It more and more turned into a case of the obnoxious, wine drinker scoffing at those who get hammered off beer. Hey, listen, you might have some people fooled, but both you and I know that the wine is there to get drunk off.

The word has since been tainted for me. If I hear one more thing about unicorns, magick (with a K :rolleyes:) spells, sexual healers, or spirituality, I'm going to pop a vein.

Though with much reluctance at first, I've come to believe now that this species is polygynous. So much behavior that was strange and counter-intuitive back then now makes clear sense. If our explanations of human behavior break when put to the test, under a system of monogamy, could it be that monogamy is an inappropriate prism through which to explain behaviors? Further, if all pre-existing "mysteries of the heart" are made no longer mysterious when looked at with the assumption of polygyny, is it too radical a proposition that maybe we're, wait for it... polygynous, NOT monogamous?

If we're polygynous, shouldn't monogamy, and especially polyandry, be non-existent? Yeah, you'd think so, but things aren't ever so simple with the human species, are they?

"But wait, women cheat, too! And now in higher numbers than ever, ever since the 50s housewife oppression stopped."

A usually unchallenged argument, it's easy to end the discussion there for most people. Sure, you think, men and women are equal except for a few anatomical differences. It all make sense.

Think harder...

MEN DO CHEAT! It is a fact. Also, WOMEN DO CHEAT! It is a fact. According to some academic studies, the percentage of men cheating is being caught up with by the percentage of women cheating. It goes something like 60% of men did or will cheat, 40% of women did or will cheat.

Statistics lie. Yeah, that's what happens when you put a nerd in charge of commenting on sex. The numbers alone would have you believe that 6 out of 10 men cheat, and that 4 out of 10 women cheat.

Is anyone going to dig further and take a closer look at WHY men or women cheat, to see if maybe there are different motivators?

When's the last time you've seen a woman cheat an a very attractive man who takes good care of her, emotionally, excites her even while being platonic, and makes her cum in multiple waves into female ejaculation? Uh huh...

When's the last time you've NOT seen a man curiously stealing glances at other women, even if he's already being dry humped by a woman so hot, she makes you want to go down on her even if she hasn't showered in a day? Pay attention next time you're in public.

I can already hear some of you whining, "But I know a woman who cheated on a guy who's actually pretty handsome, successful, interesting. And I DEFINITELY know of a man who's not interested in other woman--right honey, you're not interested in other women?"

1) YOU might think he's attractive and charming. But the woman who cheated on him has moved on to greener pastures. Trust me.

2) Hah! It's easy to be a monogamous dude if you're so ugly that fucking things up with your current significant other means you won't get laid for another 9 - 13 months. Think about it...

**********

- If that were really true, then geese would be sleeping with geese... 'cause it's good for the gander to sleep with geese. Giggidy. And oh yeah, geese would also be paying for dinner. And buy expensive diamond rings for the gander!

- This one's stupid. Women DON'T HAVE OATS. There's no oats! Women are more like tiny little pots of fertile soil in which only one seed from only one tree can grow... onto which wild oats are spread.

- It's really more about having lots of different cakes and eating lots of different cakes.

**********

"What, you get to run around and have fun while I'm supposed to play the faithful housewife?" I see this question pop up everywhere, in one form or another.

I think the more important thing to establish is not whether or not she's supposed to do this or not do that... I think it makes more sense to ask whether or not she even wants to be running around, having fun.

Imagine this dialogue:

"Hey honey, I love you but there are a few other women I'm interested in. It's sexual, yeah, but they're kind of nice to hang out with, too."

"WHAAAAAT?! Fine. If you want to fuck those women, I'll just go fuck hot men."

"Ouch. Dammnit. I'd rather you not."

"Wait, so YOOOOOU get to screw around and I'm supposed to keep my legs closed from all but the oh-so-godly you???"

"Ok, seriously, do you want to screw other men or not??!"

"Well, there IS this guy at work who flirts with me. He's kind of interesting."

"I said do YOU want to sleep with other men. I didn't ask if you know of any guys who want to plow you. I already know that there are many guys who want to plow you. Duh."

"But... but..."

"Uh huh..."

What's your take on the double standard, and on the OPP?
 
Is it because I'm a shallow prick who thinks that ugly people implement different mating strategies than the people whose sexual attractiveness is envied by multitudes upon multitudes?

How old are you, and how much do you weigh? Oh, and how many guys have you slept with?

C'mon, comparing me to an immature fratboy is like me comparing you to an old, bitter hag. Kinda hurts, and it's rude.

Let's play nice.
 
Wow, dude. Wow. WOW. Really? Wow.

I'm a woman dating another woman. She's married and is currently actively pursuing a sexual relationship with a male friend of ours as the aggressor. She's thought he was hot for years and finally decided to go for it, he had no idea she was into him. Her husband semi-regularly sleeps with other women. I'm also dating a man, who as it happens has no interest in sleeping with anyone else. No really, he knows the door's wide open and hasn't felt the urge.

My roommates are a gay, married couple. One is trans, and was born female. Of the two of them, the trans one has slept with a couple of other women of our acquaintance, the cisgendered one has slept with one other woman but mostly isn't interested in outside relationships. Both are curious about trying sex with other guys, but are waiting for the right person(s)/situations(s).

No one in my life fits into your boxes, sorry.

Also, um, sorry it turned out than the poly community was made up of humans who fuck up just like everyone else? Did that actually surprise you?

WOW.
 
Oh sorry, didn't answer your question. Double standards and OPP fucking suck, unless that's what the people involved all actually want. But if it's what they want, why would they need a standard/rule/policy?
 
Sexually, I am a female. A lesbian trapped in a biologically male body. In my purest form I am without gender, a sentient mind running off the hardware of fleshy neurons. I'm a feminist, and default to avoiding contact with men--just not interested. For me, the boundry intercourse and no intercourse is hard to define... where does it begin? Am I having it right now?

I'd describe myself that way, but then I'd feel like a pretentious 15-year-old who just needs to get laid.

That's why I describe myself as a straight dude who likes women, for sex and/or other pleasant interactions.
 
Sexually, I am a female. A lesbian trapped in a biologically male body. In my purest form I am without gender, a sentient mind running off the hardware of fleshy neurons. I'm a feminist, and default to avoiding contact with men--just not interested. For me, the boundry intercourse and no intercourse is hard to define... where does it begin? Am I having it right now?

I'd describe myself that way, but then I'd feel like a pretentious 15-year-old who just needs to get laid.

That's why I describe myself as a straight dude who likes women, for sex and/or other pleasant interactions.

...is your comment related to something I said? Something Nyc said? Or just an aside?
 
Sorry, gotta dart out for a moment. I'll respond to all your comments when I get back.
 
At this point, I suspect you're here for trollery. Should I get convinced of that, I'll escort you out. Just so you know.
 
Those are some cute theories, Sociopath, but I can't say I've found them to be true in my experience.

For instance, I'm a woman who did cheat on her handsome, supportive, sexually skilled husband. Why? Just because I wanted variety. I wasn't moving to greener pastures. I just wanted to mix it up!

I sort of feel like most people have the urge for variety but then suppress it if they're trying to be monogamous. And that's all there is to it.
 
Starting a post with that headline is a bit like starting a sentence with "I'm not a chauvinist, but...". It just doesn't help a bit when it's followed by bunch of chauvinist bullshit.
 
Your theory is an easy one to dismantle.
Monogamous species present with the genders equal sized. Polygamous species have the males twice the size of the female. A good portion of the species we are taught to believe are monogamous are actually NOT. They may only take one den partner, or are monogamous for one mating season but they have many other sex partners.
We are a promiscuous species, not monogamous or polygamous or polyandrous species and this is evidenced in one way by a smaller average size difference between the two common genders. If we were a or suppose to be a polygamous species YOU would have a tiny penis, internal testes and a much lower sperm count. Women would NEVER cheat. The only deviation from monogamy for them would be rape. Since we are a promiscuous species, you will find a wide variety of who fucks who and how and why.
Did you know that a woman can get pregnant by two different men and give birth to two different babies, one by each man? "Oats" is much better defined as "curiosities" or "desires" which everyone has no matter what their gender. Your reasoning and analogies are stale, already tried and already failed by many who came along before you in attempts to preserve sex as a male right and minimize the roles women wear in sexual pleasure and mating. It has also many times over, been used to argue why homosexuality is "unnatural". And in the same fashion as those misguided people before you, it is a self stroking and easy to justify your own behaviors tactic. Try reading some biology books, it can only help.
 
A troll by the name of Quagmire?

lol

Giggity
 
Ah, so this is what happens when I bring my colloquial knife to a fight fought by limp-wristed academics, pulling triggers softly like dandelions. "Nyah, nyaaaaah."

AnnabelMore:

A little girl-on-girl has potential to be alluring, under the right circumstances, if they're both hot. Right on.

But the male friend who was so daft as to not see that a woman has been eyeing him, for several years, is not customarily the kind of guy who attracts especially attractive women (read: readily fertile, genetically healthy, and at the forefront of contribution to a more fit species).

Now, this is just one aspect of what makes him a beautiful, special person, blah, blah, blah. But how sexually and romantically appealing a person is to one or just a few other people is hardly a reflection of how, on a wider scale, attractive that person is to a larger chunk of the ones ready and willing to mate.

Life's not supposed to be all about something as, fun, but inconsequential as sex, you say? Yeah, well neither is life supposed to be about finding food, and shelter. And survival? Right, because we are a special species who've evolved arrogance at a pace faster than we've evolved intelligence.

"No one in my life fits into your boxes, sorry." If I had to describe, in a few words, what a polyamorous person is, to somebody who's never heard the word, I'd include the characteristically vehement hatred for "being labeled." This one's particularly curious, because I've come to believe, through empirical observation, that those who are most comfortable with who they are, shrug most effortlessly and with much indifference, at anyone daring to question what might be the legitimacy of their way of life.

The only approach that makes sense to me is a logical A = A, B = B, A isn't guaranteed to equal B approach. Too many people learn everything they know about love and sex from wives tales, Cosmopolitan, and movies. I thought that people who've at least pondered over various forms of love would be closer to coming up with an accurate, consistent explanation for much sexual behavior in humans.

Now I'm in the impression that it's all a very whimsical, anything goes as long as you're true to yourself, it's all about feeling good and feeling the love... thing.

AnnabelMore,

It's just an aside.

AutumnalTone,

Let's think about this one step-by-step. If I was a troll (hah, add that to the list of mythical creatures), my predominant motivator to post here would be in driving you nuts. If indeed I was so set on driving you nuts, wouldn't I just come back under a different name to repeat the process?

Escorting out, in that case, would serve no purpose, as it would be ineffective.

It's the "just so you know" part that makes me wonder, "Holy crap. Is that one of those 'I know powerful people, I know many powerful people and lawyers. Don't mess with me!' empties?"

MichelleZed,

Forgive me for an uninspired response, but crossing all the Ts and dotting the Is with so many replies has exhausted me. I'll try to be fair and reply anyway.

With all due respect, the only flaw in relying purely on your experience is that your experience is unlikely to be representative of what happens in the whole population, far out of the reach of your experience. Careful observation, along with pray-to-God careful speculation, is the only shot at getting down to the bottom of things.

rory,

I'm not a chauvinist. I do not think men are better than women. I simply am pointing out the differences, and see no reason to appease the crowd who screams "No, the grass is NOT green, and the sky is NOT blue! They're both equal in color!"

I think the issue you're having is with what you have perceived, in your head, to be me insisting that women are somehow inferior to men or are less deserving of great, hot sex. C'mon, you know that's not how I think.

I don't hate women, but I do have a certain dislike for feminists with a bad sense of entitlement. It's like... either shave your legs or stop complaining about men who won't give you attention because of your hairy legs. Lose a couple pounds or stop calling that guy you used to like a pig 'cause he likes to cum inside skinny bitches.

This common point is amongst my favorites: a woman (yeah, yeah, with issues, I know, 'cause no woman 'cause possibly be interested in getting easy money for her money) shakes her ass around, then gets paid by men more money than she could earn in a "respectful job."

I think the stripper gets least exploited. She makes an easy buck by taking advantage of some guy's tendency to pay often hard-earned money to see a little bare boob. Sounds to me like the only women who hate strippers are those whose husbands leave them for a stripper.

When's the last time you saw a guy making more money swinging around a pole than he would as a revered doctor? I CALL IT! DOUBLE STANDARD. :D Why should women get to make more money than do men in the same profession?

Because women are different, that's why. Hell, people within the same sex are different from others within the same sex! If equality really was what ran things, then everybody would be equally attractive.

By the way... how DARE you say that the woman or man you're in bed with is more attractive than the woman or man you don't want to be in bed with? That's discrimination. Discrimination is based on differences, not similarities.

***

I need a breather. This is more labor than arguing legal matters.
 
Darn I'm late to the party again. I'm not sure what got him banned but those of us who are serious sexual healer ( apposed to the weekend warriors) find his remarks about such uninformed and more than little condescending.

Viva la Sexual Healing....take that Socio
 
Arf. Well the joke is on Sociopath coz if you're gonna insist on some kind of biological explanation ("men and women are just different" - as if there were only two simple biological sexes, let's not even begin to talk about gender and gendering) then the biological evidence suggests that the shape and size of the human dick evolved in the cauldron of *women's* 'promiscuity'. (Exhibit A: the shape of the human dick head sluices liquids - such as cum from the last visitor - behind itself so that they are drawn out of the vagina. And its grown big enough (much bigger than any other primate's relative to size, as Vizzero pointed out) to get the swimmers right to the mouth of the womb.

Sociopath's also wrong about polyandry. There were (maybe still are) polyandrous (many-husband/male consort) societies: some place in Tibet ?or Mongolia? where people marry late in life and a woman's brothers take responsibility for her children and people expect active and varied pre-marital sex life); Some people in Nigeria where everyone makes multiple marriages (boy children stays with dads and girls move with their mothers). Parts of India, I think. They're not all kind to women (or necessarily men) I should add. I know nothing about European or the Americas marriage traditions but i;m sure you'll find similar there.

Of course Sociopath's wrong to assume in the first place that marriage conventions represent actual sexual behaviours in a society, or that actual sexual behaviours represent natural human tendencies.
 
MichelleZed,

With all due respect, the only flaw in relying purely on your experience is that your experience is unlikely to be representative of what happens in the whole population, far out of the reach of your experience. Careful observation, along with pray-to-God careful speculation, is the only shot at getting down to the bottom of things.

True, but you haven't shown us that the imaginary woman and imaginary man in your examples are representative either. So that doesn't get us anywhere.

I'm not sure how we get from there to women who hate strippers, but... I don't know any women who hate strippers, so I'm not sure your examples are representative.

When's the last time you saw a guy making more money swinging around a pole than he would as a revered doctor? I CALL IT! DOUBLE STANDARD. :D Why should women get to make more money than do men in the same profession?

The average stripper does not make more than a doctor, male or female. You've been swayed by cute stories of high-paid strippers--and they do exist--but they aren't the norm.
 
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