in over my head

She's probably used to him "not talking" (being an introvert) but he has to start learning the skills of calm, considerate, effective communication. It can only be done through practice (including making many mistakes during the learning process).

She needed only him when she first married him, but now she needs him and you. This is the change that he was never ready for. I'm guessing he knows how to share sexually but not emotionally. Still think a poly-friendly counselor might be something to look into.

It's very hard for me to get used to the idea that I'm more than a fling or anything other than a diversion for a dissatisfied housewife. Initially, all I wanted was to have sex with someone I liked and I liked her from the get go. For one, she looks a lot like my first wife. They have the same name even. That made me fairly comfortable right away. Then we discovered that we have a lot to talk about. We've sent more than 10,000 messages in the past two months and shared hours of cuddling and talking. Somewhere along in there we admitted that we love each other. We say goodbye and then can't part. At first the sex was just good but now it is fantastically ecstatic every time. We're full with each other. She's always on my mind and I'm getting the idea that it's the same for her. Still, I want her to keep her family together. She is lucky to have him. She was a wild and chaotic young woman when they met and she would have self destructed without him.
 
Love your writing so far, it seems objective (as much as romance can ever be), fair and considerate.

Funnily, I think you might be the best communicator among the 3 of you, with how you've described things so far. They might be in for a bumpy ride if they don't get better at it. Both of them seem like decent people, as do you, although I think that both of them are operating with different perceptions of how these relationships work.

I'm glad to see you're as considerate of all sides of the relationship. A little concerned she's not as concerned as you are. Whether its NRE, being married to someone who doesn't inspire passion (common after two decades I suppose), devaluing her old relationship due to the shiny happy new one - whatever the reason - you're in the driver's seat of her priorities emotionally. Not sure I'd want to be in your spot. Too much baggage if things go wrong.
 
Love your writing so far, it seems objective (as much as romance can ever be), fair and considerate.

Thanks, I've tried to be objective, fair, and considerate but have left out a lot. I've written about what we have been going through but almost nothing about who we are. That's by design but I think some background would be helpful. Let me tell you about myself first.

As regards polyamory. I've always been comfortable with the idea that people love each other. I met two girls at the same time at the Disneyworld campground when I was 15 and spent the whole day kissing both of them and feeling the compersion from each as they shared me between themselves. I'd had girlfriends but never two and it felt fine. There was no jealousy and I had just as much love for both of them. Meanwhile, when I returned to the midwest, the cute blond waitress that I worked with started inviting me more into her life. We were just friends although I really wanted her. Eventually, one of the two gay men with whom she lived took a liking to me and they worked out a deal where I could sleep with her if he could sleep with me. The exploits of a 15 year old. Not to brag, it's just that I loved a lot of people that year and it was formative.

It wasn't long after that that I went out in the world and found hippies. This was the early eighties and there was still a lot of "free love" consciousness. I got laid a lot and didn't see it as at all unusual that people expressed their feelings for each other or that there were many different forms of relationships. During that time I witnessed a man with six wives court and marry his seventh. I met my first wife at that time too. She was with somebody and didn't leave him right away. That was my first experience with intense jealousy. He was hurt and extremely hateful about it while I couldn't understand that there was anything wrong with people loving each other. My girlfriends at that time would simply roll up their bedrolls and move on to the next brother. It always hurt a little bit but even then I could see it from their perspective and there are so many people to love.

That hippie girl and I... those were the days. It was several years later when we reconnected and eventually we moved up in the mountains. Within a short time we were married in a symbolic wedding (not legal) but soon after separated for good. Then I started meeting girls again and turned out to be the perfect guy for all the single moms. There were three regulars who were all best friends. I would help them with their kids, give them massages, and date. They all knew about each other and I never saw any signs of jealousy between them. I loved them all just as much and still do but haven't seen any of them since the nineties. We were friends who loved each other with no strings or attachment. I still looked for new people during that time and met many. One of those new girls decided I was the perfect man though and moved in. We were pregnant within the year. She was great. She accepted me along with all my girlfriends. Sometimes they would sleep with us and other times... I was free to be myself.

As many of you parents know, there is a before children and after children stage to a relationship. After kids the extras fall away. Within a couple years it was just me and her and more than ten years of monogamy. There was simply no time and we'd also moved away from my beloved mountains and strong local community to the lonely and isolated Midwest. It was years later when we found one of the yahoo polyamory groups and discovered a small polyamorous community in a nearby town. Although we didn't get romantically involved with anyone there at that time, we developed long lasting social relationships with most of the members.

That community eventually broke up but I currently live in one of the houses. Now we're up to the modern day and the pertinent detail here is that my gf and her partner used to participate in the community too. So there was a connection before we even met. Both of them have more than a passing familiarity with polyamory although they were never polyamorous, just swingers as I've mentioned.

Funnily, I think you might be the best communicator among the 3 of you, with how you've described things so far. They might be in for a bumpy ride if they don't get better at it. Both of them seem like decent people, as do you, although I think that both of them are operating with different perceptions of how these relationships work.

The feeling I get here is that it is too early to tell and I don't have enough information to really know what the dynamic is like in their relationship. I have an idea, a concept but they have their life and she and I have ours. When we all three met, it was obvious that she hadn't told him much about me. Not nearly as much as she has told me about him. So maybe they don't talk much. I just don't know. She'll tell me if I ask the right questions. I sense a greater level of inclusiveness from her lately and she describes an acceptance of the relationship from him.

Still, he has a list of things he wants to talk about with her and she says that she just wants to live. I suggested that she let him know just how much talking about things she can handle. I don't think anyone has an infinite capacity for it. She thought about it and said that she could only handle about 1/8 of it. (at any one time I assume) It's not the subject matter that bothers her but rather the volume of issues and the concurrent emotionally insecure intensity.

I'm glad to see you're as considerate of all sides of the relationship. A little concerned she's not as concerned as you are. Whether its NRE, being married to someone who doesn't inspire passion (common after two decades I suppose), devaluing her old relationship due to the shiny happy new one - whatever the reason - you're in the driver's seat of her priorities emotionally. Not sure I'd want to be in your spot. Too much baggage if things go wrong.

Tons of baggage, three teenage and one preteen girl between us plus I take care of a disabled relative in my home. As I said, I was resigned to being single and have been taken by surprise throughout this. I value my gf so highly. I feel rewarded, that the kindness I've cultivated has come back to me and it blisses me out that she values me enough to become a regular presence in my life. Still, I never have wanted to be an escape for her in her relationship with him. I'm not looking for her to move in with me but the thought crosses my mind. Likewise, I don't want to see a dynamic where I lift her up and he brings her down. That's kind of what's happening now.
 
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Wow! Compersion exists! She asked me to introduce myself to one of her former lovers. I did and he almost giggled. He was so happy that she had found someone like me. I was a little nervous but went for it and so glad I did.
 
Re: 11-10-2013 ... well that was quite a post, pcflvly. It really laid out in candid and sincere terms the road you've traveled to get to where you are today. I feel like I can almost visualize the whole thing, almost physically, your description was that real.

As so often happens in poly, I don't see any quick or easy answers to the problems here but, I do see little hopeful steps that can be taken one at a time. Listening to (and discussing with him) just a little of her partner's concerns about various things will probably be a "big/little" step in the right direction. Crap I can't remember, have the two of them tried much of any (preferably poly-friendly) counseling together? It seems that the intensity (not to be confused with newness and excitingness) of their feelings for each other has faded like a fire that's burned down to a few faintly-glowing coals. Maybe they don't need "their old NRE" back, but there's something they used to have that seems to need restoration.

You can probably help by at least offering little suggestions here or there when and as long as she solicits them. Unsought advice rarely goes down as well as when a person has directly decided to make themselves vulnerable and hear what you have to say. So you have to wait and watch for those opportunities. And right now, my instinctive thought is, try to especially guide her towards having more closeness (and communication) with her partner again. Paradoxically, her closeness with him is probably the key to the door separating her from you (such as those times when you two long to sleep together but can't very much yet because of his fears/insecurities). So "everybody wins," I guess is what I'm saying, if she can go and/or be guided in this direction.

I now feel that it's somewhat of a mystery as to how much he (her partner) may indeed have a soft spot for polyamory hidden/guarded somewhere safely in the vaults of his heart despite his swinging history with her. Kind of like my own brother-husband. I think he loves the "feel and ideals" that poly represents; yet "living the dream" rather scares him sometimes (and used to scare him a lot).

In any case, I can see that you've got much experience to work from with all kinds of responsible non-monogamy (from swinging to free love to poly and more). This is probably why you find yourself in a bit of "the leader role" with respect to your current situation. Your girlfriend and her partner (through her) almost "look to you for the wisdom to figure all this out." Sure they know a lot about polyamory but they probably see you as a guiding source given that you've shared romance so freely for most of your life. They figure you "know how to do it."

Sounds like you've got a pretty full plate, with many responsibilities to juggle. Take time out for yourself sometimes. Your mind (and body) probably needs the rest more than you realize. You carry many burdens on your shoulders (though I see that it's all probably a, "He ain't heavy; he's my brother," type of labor of love for you).

This romance that has come into your life has been a very unexpected blessing, and a very unexpected load to bear at the same time, something you weren't planning on with all the other services you were already engaged in. So you love the work, but it must make you weary from time to time. If you're anything like me you may even sometimes think, "How will I ever get caught up with it all? I hadn't planned on engaging myself this much." Your cup runneth over, as they say ...

You're in a three-person poly situation now. All three persons have to be treated with the same outpouring of love and valuation (this is true of hetero V sitches like mine and yours just as much as it is of full-fledged poly triangle-triads). Try to reach out as much as possible, to both him and her. They may not even realize this, but they both now need you, as in turn you now need both of them in your life.

Good luck, and I am certainly pulling for you here.

Regards,
Kevin T.

P.S. Glad to hear of your compersive delight today. Sometimes polyamory's rewards are slow in coming, but they sure feel awesome once they get there.
 
Several things lately:
1. She spent another night and I asked her how she arranged that. She said it was his idea.
2. He mentioned to her that I was up by 5:1 So he's obviously keeping score as if it was some kind of competition.
3. I visited them at her house. He was nice and I thought it was a pleasant visit but later she texted me that he went out drinking and appeared upset.
4. They all are out of town on a ten day vacation and I miss her a lot but looking forward to the breathing room and hoping that the time together reinvigorates their relationship.
5. Wanting to tell her to focus on him when with him and not spend so much time texting me but also not wanting to tell her that because I'm a big part of her support network and what if she really needs me.
 
Hi pcflvly,

Sounds like some things are in limbo right now but you are all three trying to take baby steps toward the eventual objective.

Re:
"He mentioned to her that I was up by 5:1 ..."

Up by 5:1? I'm confused; what does he mean by that ratio expression? 5:1 in what sense? Sleepovers perhaps?

In any case, I hope he won't get too obsessed with this scorekeeping thing.

Re:
"Wanting to tell her to focus on him when with him and not spend so much time texting me but also not wanting to tell her that because I'm a big part of her support network and what if she really needs me."

I guess I'd just tell her to go easy on the texts unless/until she feels especially needful of hearing from you? That's the best I can think of.

Good luck,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Several things lately:
1. She spent another night and I asked her how she arranged that. She said it was his idea.
2. He mentioned to her that I was up by 5:1 So he's obviously keeping score as if it was some kind of competition.
3. I visited them at her house. He was nice and I thought it was a pleasant visit but later she texted me that he went out drinking and appeared upset.
4. They all are out of town on a ten day vacation and I miss her a lot but looking forward to the breathing room and hoping that the time together reinvigorates their relationship.
5. Wanting to tell her to focus on him when with him and not spend so much time texting me but also not wanting to tell her that because I'm a big part of her support network and what if she really needs me.

Sounds like they're on their way to a complete falling out if things don't change. While its easy to blame him, and convenient, try to stay neutral if it happens. Your presence isn't causing it, and obviously those two aren't ready for polyamory. They're not even really communicating with one another.

My guess, he's been lazy in the relationship and she's now latched on to the idea that you're her knight in shining armor romantically. And she's willing to jettison him, or is starting to form the feelings to think it. And of course, he's still acting like things ought to go back to the way they were in some ways. Which goes to show, they were either sort of clueless to begin with - or she was ready to make a change and you're providing fuel for the fire. Again, not your fault.

It's a really bad sign that she's going to you with his personal comments to her. A really bad sign. Support network? No. I think to her, you're becoming the replacement for him. Whatever it is, it's been known to happen before. Even in this little life story blog, there's quite a few tales of folks replacing husbands and wives with new girlfriends and boyfriends, phasing out the spouse either entirely, or keeping them around for the paycheck and nothing else. With children involved, complications can be difficult.
 
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Yep, that's kind of how I'm seeing it too. Did I mention that I didn't want to be a replacement? Does it help that I build him up to her? That I tell her how good they look together? That I sympathize while reminding her that the annoyances she describes are very typical for people who've been together that long?

I am romantic and always have been. She comments on it sometimes. I wonder if she's noticed that she now waits for me to open doors? She didn't do that when we met. I'd take that over what she has too but remember that I didn't want anyone to move in on me and I didn't want to be the pivot for her to leave the relationship she was in. Of course, I don't have much control over the second part of that but I wouldn't kick her out of bed either.

Yeah, she was already making changes when I met her. She said she was being good and not looking for anybody and instead had taken up yoga and meditation. Claims meeting me took her by surprise.
 
Alas, polyamory is a great thing that can lead to even greater things, but usually starts out by inserting pure chaos into one's life. People frequently don't plan to "become poly" ahead of time, they just find themselves "falling in love with the wrong person" and trying to figure out how to navigate that without hurting those other persons in the equation who signed up for monogamy and monogamy only.

Everyone's going to have to make some major paradigm changes in how they see things and how they deal with things. It's going to be a rough, steep, surprise learning curve.

Earthquakes and upheavals will follow. Relationships will change. Relationships may end. All bets are off this early in the game. You don't want to be a replacement but she might have her own ideas about that. You might end up having to decide how you're going to cope with that, whether you're going to accept her plans for your life, and whether you're going to welcome her into your life (and home?) with open arms.

It's even possible she could swing the other way and conclude that to save her marriage she must jettison her relationship with you. So, pretty much, brace yourself for whatever you won't expect. :(

The only good news is that if the three of you survive this storm together, you could come out of it with something really beautiful on your hands. Just the dream is worth fighting for, I think.

Baby steps. Hang in there.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks guys. I appreciate your insights. Meanwhile, since my gf was out of town this weekend, I went out. What an entertaining night! It was so much fun I wrote a story about it.

What a day. I had intended to go to bed early Friday night but just before I turned off the lights, received a message from D. She needed company having planned a trip with three of her friends who all failed to come along. So here she was at midnight, halfway through a voyage aching to verbalize her experience. She was lit up with the light of the moon and illuminated from within due to the nature of her vehicle, my old friend, psilocybin cubensis. D and I live many miles apart but I jumped on her bus anyway and became a virtual passenger for a couple hours until such time as she went back out to meld with the moon. I went to sleep very late then with a more than incidental, long distance contact high.

Saturday started in dreamland and whatever I was dreaming about went on and on until late morning. I got up so late that instead of making a pot of fresh ground Love Buzz fair trade coffee, I drove down to Starbucks where I met Jim. I'd seen him there a couple times before and always meant to find an excuse to introduce myself. He's older, 59, and bald on top with a goatee and a pony tail. He looked interesting so this time I sat down near him and soon was rewarded to overhear a conversation that I could easily jump in on. He works with our local hospital managing a house for people suffering with alcoholism and other dependencies. Right up my alley and the perfect companion while drinking my first cup of joe. Par for the course for the day as I would later discover.

I was in the same mood for making supper as I had been for brewing coffee so rousted my brother and we went out to Es Tas. On our way to the place, I noticed a large group of college aged men and women all dressed in semi-formal attire heading the same way as us. They arrived at the restaurant shortly after we did. My brother and I were already seated at the bar, I was next to a beautiful buxom blond woman who was smiling into her phone, texting with glee. She was absorbed so I turned my attention to the other side of my brother where there were about twelve to fifteen of the semi-formal youngsters lined up to place their drink orders.

My brother is blind so didn't notice that the two cutest girls in the bunch were both using his chair to lean against while they waited. I caught the eye of one of them. She was asian with long black hair to her waist. She broke the ice saying to my brother, "Why do you wear those glasses? It's really dark in here." My brother didn't tell her he was blind but simply said, "To reduce the glare." She looked at me as if I would explain for him but instead I started admiring her dress. It was a black thing with a full zippered back and no sleeves that ended above her knees with a triangle of bare skin above her waist. She had the prettiest dress of all the girls in there and I told her so. By then she was buttered up enough to let me admire her hair too. Little did I know that she was actually working on us.

In retrospect I would have to say that she knew just what she was after. Food. She asked us if we had ever tried their cheese balls and that they were really good and put it just right so that we would order some. They arrived and she took them right off the counter from between us and started feeding them to us. Just one or two each then she absconded with the rest and fed them to her friends. Then our other food arrived and she left us alone for a few minutes but it wasn't long before I looked up from a bite to see her eying my food. She said, "Are their tacos any good?" and "What kind did you get?" Well, it was an order of three so I gave her one and she ate about half of it then got back in between us and started snagging my brother's fries saying, "Mmmm the fries are really good here." She was smooth. She ate some then would feed them to me, sensuously. Then she'd eat some more.

She worked us but I had her introduce me to each of her friends so I could admire their dresses as well, actually having them turn so I could admire front and back. It was fun. I also handed out a few stray compliments to the men tagging along with her friends but I didn't see much mingling. The boys were with the boys and the girls with the girls. And then they all left. It was the first time I had ever gone to a bar and had a girl eat my taco. That was par for the course too because when I got down to the Underground later. It was full of dykes (No offense ladies. This is exactly the term they used to describe themselves)

I was met out front of the Underground with surprise by an old girlfriend, M, who lives in Florida but was in the midwest for family reasons. I knew she was here but didn't expect to see her. Her and I have had a long platonic friendship. I met her a long time ago here at the polyamory community but didn't see her much while she was living with my ex wife after the divorce. It wasn't until after she left my ex that she came to me for commiseration and then we developed a much deeper relationship. So not just a friend from out of town, but a close friend with intimate connections. I went in to drink with her.

M was with her boyfriend, P, and sitting with another couple (who were not a couple) T, a big jolly looking guy, and Z, a beautiful green eyed butch haired woman in a white tshirt and jeans. T surprised me by bringing up Polyamory right away. He mentioned that he often came to the Underground with his wife to meet their lovers. That started a whole roundtable where we all described our relationships. When M got to the part about her relationship with my ex wife, she mentioned my older daughter. That made T perk up and he repeated her name to make sure he had heard it right then started laughing. It turns out that his daughter is my daughter's girlfriend. That realization was the start of a fast friendship.

Meanwhile Z got up for another drink and came back to report that the place was filling up with dykes. T said, "It takes one to know one." Z blushed. Next P went outside to smoke and M beckoned me into the booth beside her and started squeezing me and running her fingers through my hair while I caressed her thigh. I felt loved. I soon left them though to go check out the scene at the Pocket.

I never made it into the pool hall though because I ran into Bubba just as he was coming out the front doors. He was wasted but invited me to walk with him to his room for a nightcap. Now Bubba is not a Bubba like you would imagine. It was his baby name and he didn't grow up into an overall wearing, pudgy redneck but kept the name anyway. I met him at a hippie gathering out West and only recently discovered that he is a wicked lead guitarist for a ska punk band. He's in his early twenties. The night cap wasn't another drink either, it was an exquisite blond hashish reminiscent of what we got from Lebanon in the seventies. I walked back to the Underground on hashish clouds where my friends were even drunker than before. I wished them all a good night then made my way home.
 
Sounds like a fun day. :) Thanks for sharing your story.
 
Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I heard that many times before but while my girlfriend was away I didn't think too much about her return. I just wanted her to have a great time where she was with her husband and kids. That's pretty much all I could think about and wished them well. She was gone ten days. It went by fast.

She was only able to come over for half an hour the first day she was back. We sat on the couch, her in my arms, and she told me bits and pieces about the trip. Then we kissed... and it was such bliss. As I said, she only had a few moments so soon had to go. I walked her to the door and as we hugged, holding each other tight, I felt her solar plexus talking to mine just like we were one person.

She had more time the next day. We snuggled, for three hours we snuggled. Kissing, nibbling ears, holding each other... she told me, "when you touch me, I feel you touching my soul" and "we're like magnets" and although we kept our pants on, those three hours were more blissful than... well, there's no justice in comparing a fine moment like that. We were both in the present, relishing our moments together. That's the epitomy of bliss.

There's so much going on and the future is very uncertain. She says, "I find connection with you like no one else. I don't know what makes it different." I guess i'm not prepared to go into all the details right now. I am totally looking forward to the next night together with her and expect that we will fall deeper into each other. So dynamic.
 
Re:
"Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I heard that many times before but while my girlfriend was away I didn't think too much about her return."

Say ... maybe there's times when absence can make the heart grow fonder, without subjecting the heart to lonesomeness. That's a sweet deal.

In general, it sounds like your dyadic relationship is growing in depth and in wholesomeness, and while your trio relationship with her and her husband isn't digging as fast or as deep, it is getting there, little steps at a time.

I like the general tone about how everything went, how well you stood on your own two feet when she couldn't there, and how that calm patience paid off in the sweetest touch and cuddles. My current theory (corrections welcome) is that you and she love sex, but love the cuddling even more. When you were reunited your priorities were, "Let's kiss and cuddle first, we can have sex later!" which speaks to what you were both (patiently) missing.

I feel good about the way things are headed and hope they'll continue to head that way.

Much regards,
Kevin T.
 
In general, it sounds like your dyadic relationship is growing in depth and in wholesomeness, and while your trio relationship with her and her husband isn't digging as fast or as deep, it is getting there, little steps at a time.

I like the general tone about how everything went, how well you stood on your own two feet when she couldn't there, and how that calm patience paid off in the sweetest touch and cuddles. My current theory (corrections welcome) is that you and she love sex, but love the cuddling even more. When you were reunited your priorities were, "Let's kiss and cuddle first, we can have sex later!" which speaks to what you were both (patiently) missing.

Well, if it hadn't been that time of the month, we would not have stopped at cuddling. It is true though that when we do just cuddle, it's perfectly blissful, not lacking anything, and simply exquisite. After that three hour cuddle, I jokingly told her that we better reserve five hours for our next session of love making. Usually we only need two or three hours but the pent up desire was delightfully obvious. We saved it though and she spent the night Saturday so we had all the time we needed.

So what does everyone think about telling the children? He wants her to come clean to them and actually said that Saturday night was the last overnight until she does. My kids know but they are older. Her youngest is ten and the problem is that when my gf spends time with me, her younger child continuously pesters their dad, asking every twenty minutes or so, "Where's mom?" She's planning to tell them this coming weekend. She said that she doesn't care who knows about us except for her mother in law and that the kids are likely to let it slip so it's causing her some stress. The kids probably already know. I went out with all of them last night. Her, her husband, and both their kids. It seemed from the way the kids looked at me that they knew already.

The trio aspect of the relationship does seem to be moving along smoothly. She actually relayed a message from him where he was asking me for advice about something and we've had some other three way conversation where he chimed in while I was texting her. I feel a lot more comfortable now about how he is accepting her choices. The water is still deep but we've found a good stroke that will keep us afloat.

Elsewhere in local polyamory, the gentleman, T, that I met during my adventure the other weekend is wanting to "get involved in the local polyamory scene". I don't think there is a scene. There's him and his partner and their lovers, my friends that he was out with, my ex wife and her partners, and not too many others that any of us know about. How does one develop a polyamory scene?
 
Hi pcflvly,

Before developing a poly scene, I highly recommend double- and triple-checking that none currently exist anywhere nearby.

Start with the following links:

http://polyamory.meetup.com/
http://www.polyamory.org/SF/groups.html
http://polyevents.blogspot.com/#localgroups
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11
http://openingup.net/resources/local-orginizations-u-s/

Also, google "polyamory" with the name of your state, as well as googling "polyamory" with the name of any major city that might be in your vicinity. See if any poly groups pop up.

Now if you do all that and get nothin', then I think my first suggestion would be to build an official group for your area out of the people you already know who are somehow living or connected to a poly life. Make phone calls. Find out who likes which days of the week, which times of the day, and what type of get-together different people prefer.

For example, in Albuquerque the poly group has two monthly events: first, a social, at a restaurant where people just get together, buy/eat grub, and hang out. And second, a potluck at someone's (big enough) house, followed by a discussion about some poly-related topic (or perhaps a viewing of a poly movie followed by some discussion), ending with some casual chit-chat before everyone (a few at a time) heads home.

You need to find out what kinds of events your poly friends are interested in, how often they'd like these events to occur, which (if any) should be child-friendly (or how to arrange perhaps a rotating schedule of volunteers to babysit the kids out of earshot of the adults), and as I said what days and times would work best for different people. Then look for a good intersection of day-and-time that seems doable for the most people, and let everyone know they're invited at the best such upcoming day-and-time available.

In Albuquerque, the social has been on the second Sunday of each month, but I think they might be moving it to a Saturday or Friday. The potlucks (with discussion time) are on the fourth Sunday of each month. There's an official "start" and "stop" time for each of the events, though it's not like they stick to the times with military exactness.

Somewhere around this point in the process, you need to establish some kind of a web presence for your new poly group. A Yahoo.com group if nothing else. Someone needs to be in charge of posting regular announcements of (even just the regular) upcoming events. Try to get hooked up with Google and Yahoo so that your site will come up on future "polyamory" searches other people do for your area.

All those links at the start of this post? Visit those links, acquaint yourself with whoever maintains them, and ask them to add your group to their list. Now, all this web work is outside my area of expertise, so you need to find an ally who's good at web stuff and enlist his/her help. (If you're lucky you might have enough expertise to handle the web stuff yourself.) But these are the things that, in general, I think you'd need to start off with.

After that, hopefully people will start finding your group on the web, attending your events, messaging you on your site, submitting requests and making suggestions and as they do, bring those ideas up to the group and see if you can get votes and consensus on whether to tweak this or that with respect to how your site is run and how and when your events are held.

The Albuquerque group, based largely out of Yahoo on the web but with a Facebook and FetLife presence, has also found that if people show up to an event but don't want to register on the website (e.g. my "Lady Hinge" who doesn't want to get a Yahoo account but does want to get event news and whatnot), it's useful to get those people's email addresses (and really everyone's email address who's registered on the site and attends the events if they're willing to give an email address), and have someone be in charge of sending out "group emails" reminding people of upcoming events and offering road directions and the events' street addresses.

Disclaimer: I've never tried to create/assemble a poly group of my own, so in a way I'm just talking out of my ass. But I'm also offering up what I know of poly groups so far, how they seem to function and what seems to be needed to help ferret polyamorists out of the monogamous crowd and garner interest in event attendance.

Here's a thought. Look for various poly groups that aren't so close to you, but see if you can contact (via phone or email) the leaders of those groups, and get "tricks of the trade" from them, how they keep their groups running smoothly, and how they got their groups started. Major poly centers in the United States include: Seattle, Los Angeles, Austin Texas, and Boston. So why not check out the poly groups in those areas, and see if you can pick the brains of their leaders, and then you'll have more confidence about how you yourself would want to proceed.

Just from what I've written (and seen), it's obvious that creating and maintaining a poly group/scene is a labor of love. Rewarding, but lots and lots of jobs to do and you should probably delegate jobs to reliable people as much as you can so you're not personally doing all the work.

Perhaps some Polyamory.com members have developed poly groups/scenes and will notice this thread and chime in. But if they don't, give some of my above suggestions a whale.

---

Ha; didn't think about the ol' monthly visitor factor. Don'tcha hate it when that happens. My Hinge Lady will still try "full-fledged sex" at those times but she's self-conscious which makes it harder for her to "get in the zone." And there's that embarrassing clean-up factor. Plus, using my Brother-Husband as an example: he's just too spooked by that time of month to approach her in that way at such a time. I don't mind so much though. ;) All has to do with personal preference, I guess.

Anyways, sounds like you and A have had a wonderful reunion, including all that hot and heavy stuff in bed on Saturday night. :) I like it!

Re: telling the kids ... oooh, don't like the idea that one or more of the kids can't "zip the lip" and keep the secret closeted from nosy in-laws and such. But it sounds like J's not really giving you a choice anyhow, so best just tell the kids and ask them to keep quiet about it if they can. You'll probably need to explain to them the prickly reality that even though polyamory is okay and can be a wonderful way to live and love, it's still something that lots of people wouldn't understand and that's why you need them to help you keep it a secret. Perhaps comparing it to gay couples would help? Homosexual issues are better-known (such as by kids) than poly issues, so you might be able to use it as a comparison.

Kids can be *very* observant so it's often impossible to hide poly stuff from them anyway. Or worse, they might "partly get it" but get the wrong idea, like maybe you and A sneak off together without J knowing about it. Keeping in the closet is easier to do with friends, relatives, and co-workers, than it is with your kids who live with you and can see your comings and goings. So ultimately, J's probably not all wrong to insist that the kids be told. Might as well just tell them and make the best of it.

In this day and age, ten years old isn't all that young. Kids learn about sex and romance pretty fast these days, via school, their friends, TV, the internet, etc.

Not that you should give a ten-year-old a play-by-play description of your sex lives, but it seems safe enough to say, "Hey, pcflvly and Mom are in love, but Mom and Dad are still in love too, and Mom and Dad will still stay together and be here for you, it's just that pcflvly's a very special friend and we'll be seeing a lot of him." Kids tend to worry more about, "How will this affect my [the kid's] life," than they are, "Do I approve of this morally?" I think your biggest challenge is trying to convince the kids to help you keep it on the down-low if they're willing. Good luck and do your best! Kids sure are a blessing, but a mixed blessing at that!

Overall, I think you're slowly but surely settling into this "strange poly life" that fits so awkwardly into the "monogamy-centric world." Things will keep getting easier, little by little. I'm confident about that. Just keep the communication channels flowing as cleanly as you can.

You're doing good, man; keep on truckin'!
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
R gets her own letter now. A big beautiful R. She is the flirt we met two months ago, tall and shy with blue eyes and librarian glasses, the girl I was surprised to find out with A while I was out of town. She travelled this fall and just recently got back to town. She found me and A at the pub the other night and we all three spent the evening drinking together but R declined to join us when we left. It seemed like she kind of wanted to though so when I found myself short handed for the job today, I gave her a call. I really did need help and she turned out to be a great worker but I also knew that time spent working together was likely to bring us closer. It did. Nothing too sexy, I simply found out that she definitely admires me. I like her too and we managed to squeeze quite a bit of conversation in while working together. Mostly about relationships. She is married but has been separated for more than a year. A likes her too and likes the idea that we can possibly mix it up a bit.
 
I forgot: What sort of work are you involved in? As far as R goes she sounds like a sweet and respectable person. I hope you guys will continue to get more opportunities to hang out and whatnot.

Ahem; upon reading my prior post I realized it seemed a bit overwhelming, all that work that's involved in starting up a poly scene or group. Honestly I don't know how much (little?) work is involved because I've never been ambitious enough to take on that sort of project myself. Who knows? Maybe if you get some little thing started it will pick up its own steam and you can just "ride the wave." But don't be surprised if the wave calls for a little drudgery! ;)

Best wishes follow you as you continue on your way.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
A likes her too and likes the idea that we can possibly mix it up a bit.


I might have spoke too soon to say that A likes R. A is jealous of R and of anyone attracted to me. Arghh... I haven't even held her hand. I should have kissed her for all the emotional chords having her to my house struck in my girlfriend. I don't like my gf jealous because she beats herself up over it. I told her that I hadn't even kissed R and that I wasn't planning on it. She said that her husband would do R in a minute so I asked her if she would be jealous if he did. She said no. So why do I get the jealousy treatment? She doesn't know either which is why she beats herself up over it.
 
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