Anxiety and the "I'm F'd" Feeling

MorningTwilight

New member
I haven't posted in awhile. I've been trying just to keep a lid on myself for awhile, and let other things settle (in-laws' visit over the holidays, wife's surgery in early January and subsequent recovery). For those who want to catch-up, my original thread is here:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9117&highlight=initial+conversation

It's been three years since I fell hard for my crush, and I'm crushing on her as strong as ever. I still haven't told her, and I've been afraid to re-open talks with my wife out of fear that my marriage is going to fly apart. I have a handle on what that will look like financially if it happens, but emotionally, that's another matter. No longer being part of my son's daily life is what will hurt the worst, and I fear what he would think of me.

My wife has lost a considerable amount of weight (most of it during her recovery--she had her esophageal valve repaired to fix reflux, and it's taken awhile to build back up to a normal, even if significantly reduced, diet). She feels good about how she looks, and not being in constant pain is also a huge win. I'm hopeful that her improved self esteem will help when reopening talks about poly.

(And yes, I realize that even if I were to get a green light from my wife, or were to separate from her, there's no guarantee that my crush would be interested. She's hard for me to read--sometimes, I think she clearly likes me, but I don't trust myself to not merely be seeing what I want to see.)

There is a question here, after all of that: for those of you who have been in a similar situation (you loved your spouse, and you fell for someone else, but your spouse wasn't down with that), how long did it take to get past the "I'm fucked" feeling and take action? What were the consequences? If you ended up divorced--especially if there were children--how did it end up? Was it worth it?

I can't stuff the genie back in the bottle--now that I know I'm poly, and it makes so much sense to me, I feel like I'm either doomed to a life of anxiety, frustration, and sleepless nights, or I have to risk my marriage and live true to what I am.

Thanks,
MT
 
I can't stuff the genie back in the bottle--now that I know I'm poly, and it makes so much sense to me, I feel like I'm either doomed to a life of anxiety, frustration, and sleepless nights, or I have to risk my marriage and live true to what I am.
Yup, pretty much. It seems that really there is no alternative for some poly people that are born poly (identified), rather than choose it as a dating style or lifestyle that they could drop for monogamy. It seems you need to make a move. Good luck!

You might try a search for "poly/mono" in the tags and find threads on how others have worked out how to go about approaching a mono partner.
 
Oh MT, I hate that you are still so scared of her reaction. It is not good to live under that stress. You haven't brought it up again with her since the summer, correct? Now, I also recall you saying at some point that you were no longer pining for your crush. Has that longing renewed itself in you?

Do you think your wife would consider going to therapy again? I recall that she didn't like the therapist, but don't remember if she went back after the first time or not. I think you might want to find someone who understands alt. relationships but doesn't flaunt that as a specialty. You could broach the subject by saying that there are issues you want to address with a third party there to help you two sort through them. Have you been seeing the therapist by yourself at all?

I think you will have to bring it up again eventually, and I know you were very compassionate in the past, so she should be able to hear you better this time. I think, if I were you, I would focus on telling her you just want to TALK about possibilities and it's not about acting on them at this point, but that you want to just see if she will examine with you another depth to being in relationship with each other - and you don't want to be afraid to talk about deep issues going on with you. Let her have the sense that you want her to be a confidante in a way but that her past reactions didn't help you to trust that she will just listen and be open to new ideas. And that's what you really need right now instead of a brick wall.

I think some couples have to work on things like this for a very long time before making any movement in one direction or another. But she should know that she can't just say "no" and give you the cold shoulder when you just want to be able to talk about it with her.
 
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Man you have a good memory nycindie! Impressive. I just thought this was another poster with the same complaints as the last. lol :p Just teasing. It is a common issue after all.
 
Oh, well, MorningTwilight included a link to his previous thread, but I did remember a lot without visiting it again. He had quite a long thread going for several months and it was very compelling to me. Many of us contributed to it, and I've never stopped rooting for him. I guess you went blank, RP.
 
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Oh MT, I hate that you are still so scared of her reaction. It is not good to live under that stress. You haven't brought it up again with her since the summer, correct?

Correct. It has partly been fear, and partly been not being willing to bring that hurt to her, either. I keep telling myself that it does no good to live my life for her; I have to live my life for me; however, it would appear that old habits and cultural conditioning are hard to break.

nycindie said:
Now, I also recall you saying at some point that you were no longer pining for your crush. Has that longing renewed itself in you?

In a big way. All she has to do is smile at me, and it's like I'm spellbound.

nycindie said:
Do you think your wife would consider going to therapy again? I recall that she didn't like the therapist, but don't remember if she went back after the first time or not.

She only went once.

nycindie said:
I think you might want to find someone who understands alt. relationships but doesn't flaunt that as a specialty. You could broach the subject by saying that there are issues you want to address with a third party there to help you two sort through them. Have you been seeing the therapist by yourself at all?

I have not, for the same reasons that I haven't brought up poly again: fear, and not wanting to upset my wife.

nycindie said:
I think you will have to bring it up again eventually, and I know you were very compassionate in the past, so she should be able to hear you better this time. I think, if I were you, I would focus on telling her you just want to TALK about possibilities and it's not about acting on them at this point, but that you want to just see if she will examine with you another depth to being in relationship with each other - and you don't want to be afraid to talk about deep issues going on with you. Let her have the sense that you want her to be a confidante in a way but that her past reactions didn't help you to trust that she will just listen and be open to new ideas. And that's what you really need right now instead of a brick wall.

Indeed, I do need that. I'm hopeful that with her improved health and improved self-image, that she won't be so quick to see the subject as a threat.

MT
 
It might just be me but I think the longer you wait to bring the subject up again, the more likely she will feel your not acting on your desires has you in a resentful relationship with her. And to try to find comfort in you exploring a new relationship with someone who only needs to smile to brighten your day while you're on the resentful tip with your monogamous wife might be too scary a risk to her. It could make her feel like you're setting her up to be cast aside for something lighter and less difficult.

This has come up for lots of people I'm betting. If the new person and you are all caught up in the 'Wow you're like my soul mate' feeling, it can make your other partner who went though the good and the bad with you feel like all the time and work they put in is being devalued for how much easier someone new got into your heart and mind. My husband immediately felt this when he learned my BF had expressed love for me. "He has faced absolutely nothing in the way of a struggle with you and has never had to prove anything to you; of course he thinks he loves you!" was his reaction. And we are both poly; me coming to it because I knew he idealized it. If that is how he reacted, I can only imagine what it would seem like to a mono partner of someone wanting to become poly.
Do you have a clear path in your mind for how to prevent your wife (and you!) from feeling that especially when she currently and potentially will always struggle to identify with why you want/need it so much?
 
for what its worth...

Hi MT
You asked to hear from poly/mono partners who ended up getting a divorce. I am the girlfriend of a man who got a divorce. We were in a m-f-f tryad with me, his wife, and him for a while, until it fell apart. Well, hindsight is 20/20 so here is my two cents (keeping in mind 2 cents doesn't buy you much nowadays...:rolleyes:).

He felt he was always poly, has wanted it since he was 15. She had been in somethign poly before but then denied that aspect of her past and became very strongly Christian, as she had experienced much pain and heart break in her former life.

They had plenty of deep conversations about it. Tip: this was a good thing. They had managed to go beyond the obvious emotions of betrayal, surprise, insecurity.

What they didn't do was go to therapy. Tip: Try therapy with someone else who your wife actually feels comfortable with. Tip 2: Sometimes getting beyond feelings of insecurity and JUST CONVERSATION is what is most important. I so agree that it's NOT about sayhing "this is what we're doing right now"... it's about being able to support, understand, and HEAR each other's deepest emotions and beliefs. (more on that later...)

Their marriage was on the rocks super bad when they met me, for reasons that had nothign to do with polyamory and everything to do with extensive personal problems between the two of them. Tip: Yeah... if there are other things going on in your marriage beyond poly that make you question your marriage, poly will only make things crazier. (this one is so obvious in restrospect, it's painful.) :rolleyes:

When my boyfriend met me, he felt like he couldn't hold it in any longer. He went back to his wife and the two of them talked again. By then, he was desperate for changing the situation of his marriage. Things got rushed. :( Tip: Yeah, that's just a bad idea. Introducing the idea of poly is something that takes small baby steps, gentle ones.

Well, it should be obvious by now what our mistakes were and why our attempt at poly failed. We went way too fast, and their marriage was already on the brink of collapse. They had extraordinarily serious issues from the beginning of their marriage that had nothing to do with me, and that I could do nothing to help, but only emphasized to both of them that they weren't happy.

How have things gone since their separation?
He is in the middle of arranging 50/50 custody on paper; in practice, he already has 50% care for his child.
My family is NOT impressed with me, and doesn't support the relationship
His family has accepted his decisions, because his relationship with his wife was so rocky for so many years, every one understands
I love him dearly and he loves me
We are in much more careful conversations and practice of polyamory now having gained some wisdom and experience the hard way. We are much more careful, slow, and discuss EVERYTHING with each other before jumping in. It helps!

So... those are my reflections. I hope they help!!!
 
I have not, for the same reasons that I haven't brought up poly again: fear, and not wanting to upset my wife.

My husband uses this excuse to sweep things aside and harbor resentment toward me.

Him: "Well the one time I approached _____ (a difficult topic) you reacted badly. I don't tell you things to avoid making you feel bad."

Me: "Yeah, you caught me off guard and that was 15 F'n years ago. You never tried to bring it up again or discuss it once I have had time to process and have based all other situations on that one instance."

So many times he waits until he has so much resentment and back issues that it all just explodes. Other times he will say "I need to talk to you later", so for hours I'm thinking the worst (building up lots of anxiety) and it's something really simple and I'm left thinking, "it took you hours/days to tell me that?" WTF? The truth is sometimes the approach makes all the difference. She may still not be receptive or change her mind, but you may be able to avoid the volatile knee jerk reaction.

I strongly suggest therapy, even if it's just to learn how to communicate with each other. That she threatens to pack up the kid and move away is down right WRONG! It will have a negative impact on the two of you for years to come, no matter where you go from here. At one point, when I was ready to divorce my husband, he said "I will do whatever it takes to make sure you never get custody of the kids", implying that he would lie and make false allegations against me, which put me into a suicidal state. He claims that he was just grasping at straws, and would never do such a thing, but I still have issues trusting him after that. It's always in the back of my mind and it makes me question if I really do still love him or I'm just there because he will try and take my kids away from me.
 
for what its worth...

Hi MT
You asked to hear from poly/mono partners who ended up getting a divorce. I am the girlfriend of a man who got a divorce. We were in a m-f-f tryad with me, his wife, and him for a while, until it fell apart. Well, hindsight is 20/20 so here is my two cents (keeping in mind 2 cents doesn't buy you much nowadays...:rolleyes:).

He felt he was always poly, has wanted it since he was 15. She had been in somethign poly before but then denied that aspect of her past and became very strongly Christian, as she had experienced much pain and heart break in her former life.

They had plenty of deep conversations about it. Tip: this was a good thing. They had managed to go beyond the obvious emotions of betrayal, surprise, insecurity.

What they didn't do was go to therapy. Tip: Try therapy with someone else who your wife actually feels comfortable with. Tip 2: Sometimes getting beyond feelings of insecurity and JUST CONVERSATION is what is most important. I so agree that it's NOT about sayhing "this is what we're doing right now"... it's about being able to support, understand, and HEAR each other's deepest emotions and beliefs. (more on that later...)

Their marriage was on the rocks super bad when they met me, for reasons that had nothign to do with polyamory and everything to do with extensive personal problems between the two of them. Tip: Yeah... if there are other things going on in your marriage beyond poly that make you question your marriage, poly will only make things crazier. (this one is so obvious in restrospect, it's painful.) :rolleyes:

When my boyfriend met me, he felt like he couldn't hold it in any longer. He went back to his wife and the two of them talked again. By then, he was desperate for changing the situation of his marriage. Things got rushed. :( Tip: Yeah, that's just a bad idea. Introducing the idea of poly is something that takes small baby steps, gentle ones.

Well, it should be obvious by now what our mistakes were and why our attempt at poly failed. We went way too fast, and their marriage was already on the brink of collapse. They had extraordinarily serious issues from the beginning of their marriage that had nothing to do with me, and that I could do nothing to help, but only emphasized to both of them that they weren't happy.

How have things gone since their separation?
He is in the middle of arranging 50/50 custody on paper; in practice, he already has 50% care for his child.
My family is NOT impressed with me, and doesn't support the relationship
His family has accepted his decisions, because his relationship with his wife was so rocky for so many years, every one understands
I love him dearly and he loves me
We are in much more careful conversations and practice of polyamory now having gained some wisdom and experience the hard way. We are much more careful, slow, and discuss EVERYTHING with each other before jumping in. It helps!

So... those are my reflections. I hope they help!!!
 
My husband uses this excuse to sweep things aside and harbor resentment toward me.

Him: "Well the one time I approached _____ (a difficult topic) you reacted badly. I don't tell you things to avoid making you feel bad."

Me: "Yeah, you caught me off guard and that was 15 F'n years ago. You never tried to bring it up again or discuss it once I have had time to process and have based all other situations on that one instance."

So many times he waits until he has so much resentment and back issues that it all just explodes.

SNeacail,..you rock. Thank goodness it didn`t suck you into tippy-toeing around him, like he was you. Very smart.

Yes, therapy can teach someone how to grab a spine, and be honest. 'Whatever works' to get someone honest. A person has no 'life' without authenticity.
 
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I know that what you are saying is true, and I'll not argue it.

trescool asked how it was going. Tomorrow is six weeks since my wife's surgery, so my self-imposed (self-provided?) excuse for holding back comes to an end. I don't yet know what I'll lead off with.

Yes, I need to "grab a spine."
 
Just adding a bit of my story where it is relevant to this thread...

I was married for 15 years when I fell in love with someone else as well. My relationship with my wife at the time was going amazingly well and I unintentionally fell for someone else as well. That was 7 years ago.

I knew nothing about polyamory at the time and was involved in a Christian church (I was actually the pastor - lol!). I thought falling in love with someone else was not supposed to happen - but I also felt it was OK and the right thing to do! I was honest with my wife about it and while she had alot of doubts about it being OK too, she tried to be OK with it.

After about 9 months of struggling with it, my wife finally pulled the pin and said she was not OK. She forced an abrupt ending to the other relationship. I loved both people dearly, and could also understand my wife not being OK with another relationship - especially because of the background we came out of. So reluctantly I agreed with my wife.

4 years later I stumbled across "polyamory" and it answered alot of questions for me. I shared my findings with my wife and she was like, "No way!". We continued journeying slowly. It was getting more and more clear for me that this was who I am, and that having multiple intimate relationships was how I wanted to live my life. My wife was still dead against it. We talked lots and lots and lots and were very open.

After much journeying, and the desire for multiple relationships getting even stronger for me, my wife could tell that we were going to reach a point where either we separated so that I could be me, or that she become OK with things. She felt that the only way that she could become OK with poly was if she found another relationship for herself. So internally she reached a point where she wanted to experience another relationship while still being married to me because she didn't want to separate.

Within weeks of reaching that internal decision she met someone else and has fallen in love within weeks! They are 2 months into their relationship now and she is really, really happy! It has been difficult for me, being the one to stick it out for nearly 7 years and ironically being the one not to have another love in my life, but this is all part of the journey. Unfortunately the other woman that I fell in love with has now moved on, so I am still finding that I am having to let go of the last remnants of grief and letting go process.

So overall it seems like after years of struggle we are reaching (have reached??) a place where my wife and I are now poly together and when the time is right I may even find another love...

I don't know how much of this journey is relevant to this thread, but I hope it helps...
 
Yeah, and here we are, five days later, and I still haven't asked. I also did what may have been a "precipitating thing," if you will: as you know if you read my other thread, my crush and I work together. I will sometimes make excuses to chat with her at the end of the day, when most people have gone home and there's unlikely to be any rumors started. She takes an interest in how my family is doing, and asks after them, so it's something to talk about, plus I think it's nice.

After talking about how my wife is doing post-op, she asked me how things were between us, and that led to a somewhat awkward conversation in which I described that I had been attracted to others, yet didn't love my wife any less, but my wife struggled with that idea. We talked about the possibilities of what that could mean for my marriage and my relationship with my son, and I expressed how much I don't want to lose being part of his life. She listened to my brief explication that I have problems with the traditional view of marriage, and did not protest or judge me. At no point did I actually confess my feelings for my crush to my crush, but we did spend some long moments looking in each other's eyes, and she was giving me that smile that makes me melt right down into my shoes. She's very, very smart, and I don't doubt that she can see right through me.

We chatted Monday again, innocently about work topics, and she was smiling at me and playing with her hair. I'm given to understand that this kind of behavior is a pretty clear signal of "I like you. Take the next step." My crush knows I am married, knows I have agonized about my marriage and how I have tried to behave ethically, and seems (if I'm reading the signals right) to be interested anyway. I think she's also seeing someone else, but I know nothing about how that relationship works.

Clearly, I need to speak with my wife SOON. I wonder if, subconsciously, I had the above discussions to force me to do so. I have spent a lot of time over the last several months rehearsing what to say, and rehearsing how to answer objections. Just last night, I started rehearsing how to compassionately and lovingly let my wife go.

I have some questions:

1) Did I cross a line? I think, at the very least, that I was tiptoeing along it--I have avoided talking about this stuff to my crush for a long time, precisely because I don't believe I can be objective about the subject (and, if she's interested in me, neither can she).

2) Regarding non-verbal signaling, I have this overwhelming self-doubt that I'm seeing what I want to see, rather than what isn't actually there, if you get my meaning. I have never, ever wanted to be "the guy at the office who deludes himself and harasses a co-worker." I don't trust myself.

I love my wife and my son, and the thought of losing them is terribly painful. The thought of letting my crush slip away without ever at least telling her how I feel is also terribly painful--my heart breaks every single day, and the combination of these two thoughts (losing my marriage and deliberately letting my crush slip away) has been triggering panic attacks. I'm a damned mess, and I think that the route to pulling my shit together unavoidably runs through some incredibly painful territory.

I feel like I've completely fucked this up by being too scared to do anything for so long.
 
I don't think you messed up anything, there are just two construction zones you need to take care of. The talk with the wife is inevitable and you know that. That is one part of the work. By talking to the co-worker about what you struggle with and how your situation looks like you only tried to make sure if there is anything to hope for when addressing the second area you need to work on. Those aren't related and as long as you only ask for reactions and kind of make sure what it is you are dealing with, you did nothing wrong.

So what if you would talk to the co-worker before you talked with your wife? It is what it is, as long as you are just making sure what the status quo in this situation is, nothing went wrong. And regarding your self-doubt: You seem to do right now what you did for years; assuming, guessing, waiting, hoping ... not a thing will change and you will never know as long as you don't confront the situation and ask/talk. I know how that works, I did that for nearly four years. And nothing gets easier with time, this only builds up to a huge mess of assumptions, hopes, fears and what-ifs.

So stop feeling like you 'fucked this up', it won't help you here. After all this time you can be pretty sure that things won't change for you and that you need to do something. Waiting some more months or years won't do this any good. Being stuck between a rock and a hard place will never feel right, therefore if you feel that you can't live with this any longer, get your act together. If you are too scared to take action, accept that this feeling will dominate your future life. It's your choice; being constantly scared while hoping for some miracle is draining and arduous. You endured it quite long, it's up to you how long this will continue.
 
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I agree with the others. You're going to be okay. You can open your conversation with, I'm scared and nervous.

It sounds to me like you may have a bit of classic anxiety going on that has nothing to do with polyamory. It sounds like you're "horribilizing" everything, making a picture in your mind of how badly it will go and getting upset about it. Some good techniques to deal with this are remember to breath and tell yourself that no matter what happens, you will all be okay. This isn't the beginning or end of the world, it's just the beginning of one conversation; a conversation that might take a while to have.

I'd try to look into some grounding techniques and keep on reminding yourself that you're going to be okay. Try not to get caught up in what "might" happen and instead remain grounded in what is happening in the present moment. Notice your emotions, but don't believe all the horrible things you're telling yourself could happen!

If you keep on getting panic attacks, it might be a good idea to see a counsellor for some suggestions on how to keep yourself grounded and begin this conversation with yoru wife.

Good luck!
 
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