River's Blog

I assume you two did not exchange contact info?

Correct. Our parting ways was unexpectedly abrupt. He had to be somewhere shortly. I was in the men's room, came out, and there he was saying he had to go. So I reached for a hug, which he granted. .... But I wish I'd gotten contact info. I left thinking that if we cared to we could meet up at the bar in the future, by chance. I suspect he's a regular.

Thanks for your words. I appreciate them.
 
.... Perhaps his "sitting on the fence" with his relationship is a bit of a rut.

He hasn't been sexual with his partner in quite a few years! So, apparently, his life is divided into love-without-sex / Sex-without-love. That would certainly be a rut for me! I like the two together!
 
I'm more than a little tempted to be at the bar again this evening, just to see if he's there.

Am I nutz? Shouldn't I forget about this unavailable man?

Hmm, that depends on what do you hope to gain from meeting him again. Just kiss? Feel a little giddy? Have some of that self-validation that is oh so important when getting back in the dating game? Make him fall in love with you? Convert him to poly?

From what I've read on your posts, I'd say yes, emotional unavailability is not what you want or need right now.
 
Hmm, that depends on what do you hope to gain from meeting him again.

Well, he sent some interesting messages. His attration to me isn't just physical. He made it clear that he's not into being with guys sexually who treat sex partners as if we are all interchangable. It's personal, for him. And he likes to talk with me..., etc. He didn't try to get me into bed right away. He wanted a kiss.... He's apparently interested in real intimacy. And yet... and yet.... And yet he was clear that he's taken (to use the common lingo).

When he said the bit about polyamory being "dangerous," my impression was that he recognized that it could unsettle his life. That it was under consideration, not dismissed out of hand.

Of course, we barely know one another at all ... and that's what I'd like to remedy. Maybe we're not cut out to be lovers? Maybe he could be a friend? Who knows?!

And, no, emotional unavailability is not what I want or need. Not even in a friend. Obviously.

It's just weird to me that folks create emotionally monogamous lives to begin with! So much unnecessary fear!
 
I've had a few experiences with men in sexless marriages... or nearly sexless. And a guy my gf dated in '09 was also in a sexless marriage. He was gay til he was with my gf (who is MtoF trans). He and she had a few dates, and I met him at a Yule party where he also brought another guy he was dating. Then he stopped talking to my gf for a while... finally he let her know he is divorcing his longtime partner.

The guys I dated who had partners, some of them have since split up, some are still with their wives in sort of a weird borderline way. Sounds like your bar buddy is really exploring having feelings, both sexual and emotional, with men other than his husband. Maybe you 2 could meet again, but take the sex part slowly... he has a lot of issues to work through, sounds like.
 
Maybe you 2 could meet again, but take the sex part slowly... he has a lot of issues to work through, sounds like.

Thanks, Magdlyn.

In an email conversation with a friend, I mentioned your advice, then said ...

The others mostly warned me off, as you did. And they/you are right. But there may be something to what this poster said about "exploring". He cannot be happy in the relationship he's in. I suspect financial dependency is a part of the arrangement -- but I don't know that. ... But I cannot imagine anyone who likes physical-sexual intimacy can be happy in a relationship that doesn't provide that, or happy (for long) to substitute extracurricular sex with people with whom there is no genuine loving.

Keeping in mind my need to protect myself -- legitimately --, I'm thinking that I want to see if [his name] can be my friend, and I his. So there wouldn't be any kisses, nor sex. And if he can't handle even that much (friendship), that's fine. It wouldn't be a comment on ME.
 
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Where's River? He's out there, loving himself up!

I bumpted into him--the kisser--at the grocery store after a long while not seeing him at all. We shook hands (which I initiated) and smiled ... and then proceeded to shuffle our feet and try to find words. "So, shopping, huh?" he asked. "Um-hmm, shopping"....

"Haven't seen you at the bar."

"I hardly ever go."

"Well, have a good day."

"You too."

(Have I told you I can be very shy and socially awkward?)

Anyway, we went back to shopping ... and eventually I "grew a pair" (as they say) and wrote my phone number and name on a slip of paper and tracked him down and handed it to him, saying Please call me for tea or something some time. He said he would. I dunno, maybe this was a week ago. I haven't worried over it much. I mean, ... well, whatever.

I'm slowly making my way toward just holding myself open to love's possibilties--without gearing up for the hunt, if you know what I mean. I realized the wanting of another love in my life only makes me unhappy, unsatisfied.... So I've decided to just love myself up, I mean really pour it on. I deserve it! Shit, I'm taking myself out on some dates!
 
We met here in this forum, and have corresponded quite a bit in recent weeks.

We have dozens of important things in common, and we really like one another a lot.

She lives many hundreds of miles away.

We clearly love one another as friends. And there is mutual "romantic" attraction, too.

I'm going to relish the glow of love and let it grow as big as it wants.

Yet, in reality, we haven't really met. We know each other well -- but it's all been marvelous text.

I've told her that I'd like to kiss her, however -- and it's true.

This has never happened like this before.

It's warm and bright like the morning sun just before it rises.

My whole heart has smiles.
 
I'm slowly making my way toward just holding myself open to love's possibilties--without gearing up for the hunt, if you know what I mean. I realized the wanting of another love in my life only makes me unhappy, unsatisfied.... So I've decided to just love myself up, I mean really pour it on. I deserve it! Shit, I'm taking myself out on some dates!
Mmmm, I love this!
 
nycindie,

There are a few drawbacks to self-dating, however.

(a) No surprise gifts. I mean, what am I gonna do, buy myself a surprise rose or chocolates?

(b) I cannot kiss myself on the lips -- though I have tried!

(c) I look silly when I talk to myself out loud in restaraunts.

... and so forth.

One advantage of self-dating, however, is that I always laugh at my own jokes.
 
Charlie,

I love the three of you like distant family, like tribe. Whether inscribed in clay tablets, parchment, paper or pixels, we of the poet tribe drink from the same ink well. You gotta look after your own. And love is inevitable.
 
What madness is this!?

Text! Lots of text, but text nontheless, emails mostly. A phone call will happen soon, when the time is right. And we've seen each other's photos.

Without any hint of teasing (it's no strip tease!), we're getting naked and real with each other in text, getting to know one another soulfully in text. She lives so far away! What else can we do?

I just wanted some of that metaphorical nakedness to spill over into this forum, 'cause (a) this is where we met and (b) I owe it to y'all, since you've watched me simultaniously reveal my innermost self AND wear wonderful, well-crafted, delectible masks.

How it feels -- and what madness it is! -- ... I wake up before dawn and the dim silver of pre-dawn gently caresses an awakening heart, a dimention of heart largely unknown as feeling-it-directly.

I get a message from her about her grief over the end of her marriage and I immediately go into spasming sobs and a rainbow of tears. For I cannot have distance with her. Distinction, yes. Autonomy, yes. Otherness, alterity, yes (check), but the empathy over her words of grief was a direct line, or no line at all -- just the solid certainty that I am with her in it, directly. Not caught in it, but grieving with her, because I -- the madness -- ... because I love her so.

Hearts like diamonds, like diamonds strung across an infinite sky.
 
Okay, now that's all I'm going to be saying about it for a long while. It's all very new and doesn't need to be publically graphed and charted. I just wanted to say that much, no more. We don't know what sort of relationship will develop. We do know we love each other; we can't help it. It may be an amazingly intimate, loving friendship. It may become romantic love. It will be what it will be, and it doesn't feel right to tell its unfolding story here.
 
Ah, River. Maybe you and I could have some conversations... I am in a long-distance thang right now, and have been texting, emailing, and having phone conversations with this man for a month. It is scary and exhilarating, and I can't quite believe the feelings I'm experiencing. We have been in contact actively every day - more than the frequency I'm used to in relationships with local guys. We text each other a good morning and good night every single day. Sometimes I'm just beside myself trying to figure out how I could feel this much affection and passion for someone I haven't met in person yet.

We are meeting for the first time in a little over a week. He is coming to my city and we've planned a day and night together. Sometimes I think I must be crazy, or that I will suddenly wake up from a dream!

Wondering how you got there, how you handle it...
 
NYC,

I'll be in touch. Remind me if I forget. A whole lotta shakin' goin' on!
 
Aah River... I once fell in love with a guy on the internet. It was delicious while it lasted, very nurturing, big period of growth and self-discovery for me. Mmmm... Good luck, best wishes.
 
Magdlyn,

But I have not fallen in love with a gal on the internet, I am rising together in love with a gal in Minnesota.

This is why I hope--blessed heart-of-the world, I hope ... nay, I vow--never to fall in love again. One who falls in love can lose it. Our rising in love together cannot be lost. We grow our love by not grasping after it.
 
Non-attachment.

I am a follower of the Way of Dharma, and non-attachment figures importantly in that. I am a beginner along the way, really. I've drawn inspiration from the Way all of my life, nearly, but only now am I really beginning to practice, really practice.

Or should I say the Dharma is practicing me?

Every now and then I have a true breath, the kind that opens and clears and liberates, that soothes and heals and opens. (I repeat, opens. Again, opens.)

A life truly lived, fully embraced, occurs moment by moment.
(This signals how to practice mindful breathing. Be here now, right?)

So, I'm thinking and feeling and wondering and contemplating non-attachment. It must mean non-grasping, non-clinging.... And any of us can see that a person can become attached to non-attachment, can avoid -- run screaming from -- his or her own desires, longings.... The more intense a longing the more some might want to avoid, in order not to have attachment. Running from attachment is silly. Running headlong into attachment is silly. So what is the middle way? This is what my heart is palpably wondering, opening to as a question -- what I am wondering with my whole heart.

What I'm realizing, bit by bit, is that this thing I'm wanting so much, longing for so much, I already have. Have always had. Can never lose. In its essence, that is. And this
felt insight is what allows me to be with my intense desire and longing in a soft and open way. I don't need to dampen the intensity of my longing. I only need to hold it in the space of openness, of gentleness, of tenderness, of love. And that's all I ever wanted.
 
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Well, we've still not met face to face. (Which must wait, which is quite okay.) But her being touches my heart so tenderly and with such mutual tenderness-joy that there's no need at all to wait for the f2f. We've already touched soul-to-soul, heart-to-heart... in so many ways. So I'm declaring it official as of today. I know she loves me as I love her. My polyamory is no longer "in theory" but in practice. It's just a matter of kissing and cuddling now. We're in love.

Now, understand, I realize this sounds crazy. But you have not read our correspondence! If you did, you'd understand completely. If you understood it.

Breaking into song now ... "We are family...!" (poly family, us all.)
 
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